I'm not seeing the connection here and I'm a big satch fan

everyone wants a piece of this song

I can hear the similarities...

Either way, they both have enough money I'm sure.

Chorus sounds exactly the same lol

lol at idiots commenting the coldplay videos believing anything they hear.

There's some mild similarities but this is definitely not on the level of, say, Bitter End (Sum 41) = Battery (Metallica).

They really aren't that similar at all. Coldplay has more chords in their than Satriani does. Not to mention, there not even at a similar rhythm. Satriani is an ass****.

Check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

It makes the similarities a bit clearer.

Erm Eak did you even watch both vids

hah I hope satch wins I think Coldplay reeks of blandness and unoriginality.

There's some mild similarities but this is definitely not on the level of, say, Bitter End (Sum 41) = Battery (Metallica)

Check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

hah I hope satch wins I think Coldplay reeks of blandness and unoriginality.

Wow, maybe I was wrong. That was a pretty hilarious video. They should just collaborate haha. Still, it is a pretty common chord progression.

the likelihood that they'd actually have been exposed to the instrumental is pretty minimal.

Either way, they both have enough money I'm sure.

The song with Joe playing sounded pretty awesome tbqh, they should have collaborated.

"And is that reason enough for someone to win a plagiarism case without having strong proof?"

No...the blatant similarities is enough for that...the reasons I stated above are the reasons why I'll be happy about it.

Disgruntled washed up musician sues young hot band, big surprise.

the one guitar riff on If I Could Fly has almost the same melody as the vocals on a lot of Viva La Vida

Disgruntled washed up musician sues young hot band, big surprise.

In defence of Satriani, I think it's quite easy to hear similarities in your work and other people's, since your mind evaluates your music in a different way. Of course, he might just be making an unfounded claim. And also:

I would love to hear you explain how joe satriani is washed up

"Disgruntled washed up musician sues young hot band, big surprise."
Hah what? I think you mean to say "Musician with talent sues young, frequently made fun of band, for taking nearly all melodic elements of their biggest hit of the year from one of his songs".
I think that is what you meant to say, you're welcome.

I definitely see the similarities, but I'm not sure if it will stand up legally. Musically, I find Coldplay guilty as charged.

Oh please, Coldplay has pretty much ripped everyone off. Think of the first sounds of guitar you hear on Viva La Vida (the album), tell me it doesnt sound strikingly familiar to All Apologies by Nirvana. Not to mention X&Y sounds like U2 in some spots. And "Fix You" Sounds a whole lot like like that popular Pixies song (cannot remember the title) thats in the end of Fight Club. I say good for Joe Satriani.

Hah I wonder if Coldplay's guitarist is thinking to himself "oh sh!t oh sh!t oh sh!t I was hoping no one would notice..."

o_O

isn't it the vocal melody that's been 'stolen'?

oh and LOL

"Not to mention X&Y sounds like U2 in some spots."

good spot, but that one's called a heavy influence.

I noticed the similarity the first time I heard the Coldplay song because I used to listen to that Satch album a lot. I never really assumed that they intentionally stole it from his song, though. Just sort of viewed it as a coincidence.

o_O



isn't it the vocal melody that's been 'stolen'?

Yeah I know but maaaan on X&Y, its like they became U2 or something (that arrogant Arena Rock, Edge-influenced echo guitar sound). Im jus sayin, I like Coldplay a bit, but yes they be rhymin and stealin. This Message Edited On 12.05.08

martin makes quips almost daily about how well they plagiarise.

at least they're honest about it, i guess.

Nope.

About time they were caught for one of their many rip-offs

i have seen it a few times on youtube in the comments and even in one of the videos "same chords, same melody"

and that means nothing, naturally shit that has the same chords is gonna have a very similar melody, since music is based on keys, and for songs like that, you aren't leaving the key.

chalk this one up to they both built their songs off of similar backing riffs, and the melody that came out was close.

The fact that there is a third band with the same type of thing going on proves it even further.

"martin makes quips almost daily about how well they plagiarise.
at least they're honest about it, i guess."

Well plagiarism itself is inherently dishonest.

I feel bad for Coldplay. I really don't think those are the type of guys that would steal songs. Also, why why would they make a plagiarised song, their title track? Seems a lil weird to me. I honestly think it was an accident.
The songs ARE really similar tho.This Message Edited On 12.05.08

i hope the jury finds a way for both parties to lose

douchebags

What he evidently means by plagiarism when he makes those comments isn't that they literally steal melodies and basslines and what not, just that they take idea from places.

What I'm saying is, why would he go around making jokes about plagiarising people, then deliberately and maliciously rip off Joe Satriani?

Makes very little sense at all.

"Makes very little sense at all."
That's how I feel about Coldplay's success.

"Isn't nearly close enough to win a trial in court, especially for the amount of money he is seeking."
No but demonstrates Coldplay's lack of originality, well for those who hadn't noticed before.

sounds like satriani just wants some money

severly doubt this will make it into court

I remember hearing the song and thinking it was very similar to a song by this French pop artist named Alizee. And then they had it in one of those videos. Hilarious.

it brings up questions about the idea of originality though.

okay, say that that mystery piano man guy composes something that sounds ridiculously like greensleeves...

such hyperbole, obviously, but if they've not heard it they can hardly be accused of deliberate 'copying'

Except for that statement Martin made:

"Joe Satriani? Hell yeah I love The Satch-quatch. I want to be just like him in every way regardless if its illegal or not. I'm actually working on a song right now called 'Viva La Vida.' Gahd he's is so cool. He doesn't afraid of anything."

"Hey guys, we're one of the most popular bands on the planet, if not THE most popular band on the planet at the moment. Let's make this song we plagiarized off Satch, who's one of the most well-known guitarists ever, into our biggest hit single that everyone and their mothers will have heard at least twenty times."

Sounds reasonable, right? This story pisses me off to no end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I&feature=related

I'm going to agree with Satriani. I always thought the stop rhythms on the violins in Coldplay's song were unnatural as if they were going out of their way to make a boring chord progression interesting by chopping up the rhythm. It'd make a lot of sense if they chopped up Satriani's chord progression to "make it their own." Pretty flagrant.

I'm going to agree with Satriani. I always thought the stop rhythms on the violins in Coldplay's song were unnatural as if they were going out of their way to make a boring chord progression interesting by chopping up the rhythm. It'd make a lot of sense if they chopped up Satriani's chord progression to "make it their own." Pretty flagrant.

Yeah its more the melody line, but it does sound a little too similar. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that Coldplay borrowed a bit from other songs to make their own in the slightest, although this sort of thing does happen in music a lot just out of sheer coincidence.

On a completely biased level tho, thanks to Satch for kickin' at coldplay a bit.

I mean you guys are getting really picky. Musically, changing key doesn't do anything but change your reference point. You've just transposed the exact same thing a little bit over. Imagine having a unit circle (ya I'm talking geometry) and transposing it from (0,0) to (1,1). It's the same unit circle just placed at a different part on the graph.

.... The songs don't sound very similar at all... I can see where they could complain about the chord progression, but even that is a very generic progression. Nothing SO significant. The little part in the chorus of I COULD FLY, could totally be coincidence, just some notes in a scale that two people think sound cool.... I highly doubt Coldplay listens to Satch at all. Love them both.

It's funny because they are SO similar that the satch part could easily pass as the solo in the coldplay song.

It sounds like Martin heard the satch song and was like "this would sound great with vocals....wait a minute, I'll just record it and pass it off as my own work!"


If you play the lead part in the satch song directly over the melody line in the coldplay song...they are virtually the same...it's so blatant it's hilarious...and dispicable.This Message Edited On 12.05.08

"I highly doubt Coldplay listens to Satch at all."
Any reason for this doubt? A lot of musicians listen to Satch. I have as much reason to believe he does as you have that he doesn't.

Even if Coldplay deliberately copied the chord progression it really can't be proved in any way unless minutes were taken during their recording session and they said they were doing it. It's nearly impossible to have an chord progression that is entirely original without going into very complexed mechanics and neither song is really that complexed.

It happens in art all the time. Occasionally it's intentional but usually it's not.

why's it hard to believe that two songs with generic chord progressions could happen to sound similar?
they're both terrible songs/song anyway

I highly doubt Coldplay intentionally ripped off the song. First of all, despite Sat's, er, respect...his songs and albums don't get much exposure. At all. The fact that Chris Martin heard this song somewhere out of the blue, and in the middle of Sat's cheese-tastic late '80s hair metal/new wave "jamming", thought, "My God, I LOVE THIS!"...just doesn't seem very likely.

And it took Satriani HOW MANY MONTHS to file this? Sounds like a lucky break and a chance at some money-grab for a certified douchebag now. Come on Joe, who are you fooling?This Message Edited On 12.05.08

they're both terrible songs/song anyway

I mean you guys are getting really picky. Musically, changing key doesn't do anything but change your reference point. You've just transposed the exact same thing a little bit over. Imagine having a unit circle (ya I'm talking geometry) and transposing it from (0,0) to (1,1). It's the same unit circle just placed at a different part on the graph.

Chord progression? No.

Melody? Similar, if not alike, yes. But it's a pretty simple melody and it could have easily been written independently and/or unconsciously copied. See: George Harrison.

It's amazing how strongly I agree with Tsuruka's comment. This is a VERY common chord progression and a simple melody which pretty much writes itself over the top. It is easy to see how the two tunes can co-exist indepentently of one another.
If you could lay copyright to chord progressions, everyone would be getting sued by the Beatles.

never heard of the other guy till now, pretty good guitarist. I might check out his stuff. As for the plagerising of the song, I dunno its close but im not fully bought on it. I can see why that dude is mad though

Wow i think it's extremely obvious that it's stolen.

Chord progessions are one thing, but chord progressions AND the melody? With the exact same rhythm so that they can even be played together and still sound fine?

And wow, that Sum 41 song is a pretty obvious carbon copy of Battery too.

i think people are forgetting that just because a song sounds similar to another, it doesn't necessarily mean it was "maliciously stolen"
i have no trouble supposing that the members of coldplay don't even listen to satriani, and unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they do and the similarities are intended, you can throw this case out on it's arse

Chord progessions are one thing, but chord progressions AND the melody? With the exact same rhythm so that they can even be played together and still sound fine?

I don't think they're that good. Maybe a few of the same notes, but the exact same ones with the exact same rhythm I find very hard to believe.

And for the record, I don't think Satriano should sue, but I do think he has a right to be a little peeved that Coldplay is getting vast praise for something he made first.

"Well legally it has to be proven that they did, or it is very likely that they did."

Does it? Can you show me something on that? To my knowledge it's intellectual property and nothing like that necessarily HAS to be proven since they are both major recording artists with copyrighted material. It's like if an author wrote a book and the main story was almost identical to the work of another author...they wouldn't have to prove that the second author read the other's book...it's clearly the same and the former was already published.

And lol at people still talking about the chord progression. This Message Edited On 12.06.08

Thats an interesting example. My question is though, based on that criteria all anyone would have to say is "nope I've never heard that song and you can't prove that I have". I mean what are they going to go search each member of the band's record collection?

Well there is the fact that Brian Eno (Coldplay producer) has a pretty close connection to satriani musically through his work with Robert Fripp, who is a known partner of Satriani's...hmmmmm.
And Eno was working with Fripp at the same time he was working on this album with coldplay...the connection is not too far off...

Yea I hear ya, and I don't think Satriani is going to win...but I hope that this will continue to convince people how unoriginal Coldplaygirism's music is.

I didn't expect to say this, but I actually preferred the Coldplay song.

The melodies are practically identical - I definitely understand why Satch is upset. But I think he would have been better off simply commenting on the similarity between the songs in a press release; or maybe even making a live video of "If I Could Fly" and segueing straight into a cover of "Vida la Vida"! Anything but going to court. It's always ugly when artists sue each other; and considering, like BritneyDiva says, that he probably can't win, he's just going to make himself look bad.

Besides, how dumb would Chris Martin have to be to plagiarise such a well known artists? No-one would do that. Seriously.

haha, right....^

I couldn't put myself through either song enough times to notice the similarity, but I don't think it's really there. Coldplay's no more uninspired than satch is.

Ok first of all let me say to out DeafLion here that using the unit circle analogy to try and explain the simplicity of transposition was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Remember you're talking to a bunch of school kids who probably forgot to remember what a unit circle was. However I totally agree. Key is merely a reference point. Hell I could go and play Mussorgsky's Une Larme right now in a minor instead of g, and of course it will sound the same, just a little higher in pitch. So A-flat and D are no way a point where you can argue

Secondly, "Besides, how dumb would Chris Martin have to be to plagiarise such a well known artists? No-one would do that. Seriously." Chris Martin is pretty dumb Im sorry to say. Someone needs to teach him how to write an actual song without the same ol' rhythm in the piano and guitar.

Thirdly - here are a stack of links
[A]http://www.arttimesjournal.com/music/mathematical.htm[/A]
[A]http://www.ugo.com/channels/music/features/top11ripoffs/top11ripoffs4.asp[/A]
[A]http://www.gelfmagazine.com/archives/picking_up_what_theyre_laying_down.php[/A]
[A]http://cip.law.ucla.edu/song.html[/A]
For those feeling the mathematical analysis of producing the same melody is a little flawed, don't worry you have every reason to feel this. This is mainly because there are many common element in melodic and chordal music that need certain elements to be expressed, such as perfect cadences etc, but it does show well how hard it is to come up with the exact same melody just by accident.

Finally there have been a million of these cases for well known songs. See the links and my info. Don't be surprised if he wins, but at the same time don't be surprised if he doesn't. The argument of intelectual property and proof of plagiarism all come down to how the trial is executed, and how it plays out on the sitting days with both judges, and in some cases the jury.

"Any and all profits"

holy shit, if he wins...

Couldn't make any similarity until I heard this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I&feature=related
I don't think he should bother.

The way i see it, there's only so many chord progressions out there. Of course, you can change things up by voicing chords differently, using different instruments, changing rhythms, using different lead melodies and counter-melodies, etc. etc. the list goes on.

Mr. Satriani's song has a completely different "feel" to it, musically and artistically.

My example:
G-C-D is a very common chord progression in popular music, especially in guitar based songs. Thousands of rock songs are built around those three chords, often used in the same order. Also, many popular songs use similar drum beats. No one is causing an uproar over that.

Personally, I see no point in taking this issue to court.

i don't think satriani should win.
he also isn't really that great at all.This Message Edited On 12.07.08

MrKite, he's brilliant. even if you don't like the music, he's the technically the best guitarist in the world right now. thats beside the point however.
1. satch's anger is understandable
2. copyright infringement is music is SO common, often unitnentional, and also understandable.
3.Coldplay should understand that they infringed, and should have to pay some (not all: that woule be ridiculous) of the royalties to Satch

This case has been adjourned people

viva la satch boogie!

not really, but washed up insanely good guitarist tries to get some money out of a fantastic band. its similar, but why whine?

"i don't think satriani should win.
he also isn't really that great at all."
Hah says the guy who is currently digging John Fruscianti...
There is only one day a year that Fruscianti is better than Satriani, and that day is April 1st.

http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1456997/08122002/coldplay.jhtml

There is a coldplay interview from 2002 where they mention Joe Satriani by name. They certainly do know who he is...

"but washed up insanely good guitarist tries to get some money out of a fantastic band"

lol at 'fantastic band'.

MrKite, he's brilliant. even if you don't like the music, he's the technically the best guitarist in the world right now.

good luck baldy

Ok first of all let me say to out DeafLion

"Personally I'd rather listen to something inspired like Pelicans draggy and technically unimpressive arrangements than Satriani's soulless guitar noodling. "
Hah you tell someone not to cram subjective opinions down people's throats, then make the above subjective statement...major lulz.

Chris Martin named his baby Apple.

Personally I'd rather listen to something inspired like Pelicans draggy and technically unimpressive arrangements than Satriani's soulless guitar noodling.

MrKite, he's brilliant. even if you don't like the music, he's the technically the best guitarist in the world right now. thats beside the point however.

AP07373 is right. you're a hypocrite. and chill dude. All I was saying to the guy who dissed satriani, is that he deserves repect for his technical prowess, therefore nobody should say "he sucks"
it's an ambiguous statement, and implies he can't play guitar. I wanted to make it clear that you'd be a fool to call him an unable guitarist.

And I did say it was beside the point of this whole case anyway. so shut up, and contribute to the conversation regarding the infringement of music thank you very much. lets get back on tack people

And I can tell the difference: One can be proven the other can't.

YOU figure which one hot shot.

"If you STILL can't figure out the difference between those two statements... well, good luck in life."
This will be fun...
"Personally I'd rather listen to something inspired like Pelicans draggy and technically unimpressive arrangements than Satriani's soulless guitar noodling. "
The first part is your opinion, however you say "soulless noodling" as if it is fact, which was not part of your opinionated portion of the statement.
Had you said "Personally, I find Joe Satriani's guitar playing to be Soulless noodling" you might have an argument, but you didn't say that.
Learn to write better and convey what you mean to say.
Show me where you say that Joe satriani's "soulless noodling" is your opinion...

"And I can tell the difference: One can be proven the other can't."
So you can prove that Joe Satriani's guitar playing is "soulless noodling".
Hah have fun with that "hot shot".

No. I meant that I can prove he is technically the best guitarist in the world. The two quotes societysellout used above; look at those. Look at the highlighted section of my comment in the quote box. That's what I can prove.
Since his comment was an opinion (don't overanalyze what he says), it can't be proven. Societysell out, I have nothing against your music, the only thing I said was that he is the best guitarist in world as far as technical skill. I have no intention of shoving that statement down peoples' throats, and I didn't do that anyway. by the way APO7373... you said earlier that the "souless noodling" comment by society sellout was a subjective statement, and now you've just viewed it as a fact. don't contradict yourself. and stop trying to correct everyone's grammar.

or sentence structure however you want to look at it. I understood what he said, i think everyone else did too.

"APO7373... you said earlier that the "souless noodling" comment by society sellout was a subjective statement, and now you've just viewed it as a fact. don't contradict yourself. and stop trying to correct everyone's grammar."

Jeez dude don't you get it? That was my whole point; that he was trying to pass off a subjective statement as fact, while accusing other people of doing the same thing!

sorry man, but you weren't being entirely clear about what you meant. it appeared you thought that I said , "I can prove satriani's songs are souless noodling" and it wasn't.
I see what you mean now though.

it's okay, I just think it's hilarious when people get on other people for doing something, then do that very thing.

Where can I watch this video.. Seems as though google has censored it not only in its search but on youtube aswell. Its crazy what the internet is coming too.