Oh yeah also, fuck TMZ for being so exploitative about this as usual.

RIP Bob

not opening a tmz link, rest in peace

Ah man, shitty news. Don't know about his personal life at all but he was a really solid drummer.

this is devastating, one of the first musicians whose work I truly admired

I heard he had some rough last couple of years

reast easy Bob

RIP

Damn, 44 is too damn young. Never really got into MCR, maybe I’ll give this record a shot

Huge RIP. I was a big fan of his growing up. His work on The Black Parade was great

Loved The Black Parade and the drum work on it.

RIP

I found out about this via Simpsons Bortposting on Facebook. Apparently the guy is a MAGA supporter.

Wow, only 44! Fucking tragic! R.I.P. man

I'd care more maybe if he wasn't a MAGA POS
so lol owned

come on guys I'm as much of a woke soy commie as you can get, but severely mentally ill people getting conspiracy brained is more an indictment of societal neglect than anything. this is a horrible way to go.

Ah, damn

Rip

This is heartbreaking, RIP

As a drummer, his story was always super sad. Got to live the dream of making it from drum tech to member for the biggest band in the world, but then due to a freak accident (or carelessness by the director) injured his wrist during a video shoot. His wrist got a staph infection which essentially meant he was playing on pain meds for years until he had to quit cause he just couldn't play drums anymore.
Honestly it'd have been a miracle had he not spiralled heavily after that. I think anyone would. rip

Bad news. Hope he died painlessly.

severely mentally ill people getting conspiracy brained is more an indictment of societal neglect than anything [2]

RIP

He posted recently that he had dirt on a VERY wealthy Celebrity family, via a social media post. Claiming "I KNOW EVERYTHING".

Imagine stooping so low as to call someone who recently passed a 'POS' on a music review site of all places, simply because their political beliefs didn’t align with yours. The cognitive dissonance is staggering—you decry division and call for unity, yet resort to hateful, dehumanizing comments. This kind of behavior doesn’t just highlight hypocrisy; it’s exactly what perpetuates the divide you claim to stand against.

RIP Bob Bryar. I was a fan of MCR when I was a teen but hadn’t listened to them since. Still, this is very sad news.

Damn, huge loss. RIP.

Gonna give Three Cheers a rip today

severely mentally ill people getting conspiracy brained is more an indictment of societal neglect than anything [3]

Hard RIP
actually listened to TBP this morning without knowing this news. That album meant a lot to teenage me and still holds up to this day. Needless to say talented drummer but he always seemd very reserved and antisocial when he was in MCR

come on guys I'm as much of a woke soy commie as you can get, but severely mentally ill people getting conspiracy brained is more an indictment of societal neglect than anything. this is a horrible way to go. [4]

"I'd care more maybe if he wasn't a MAGA POS
so lol owned"

You got dunked on. Let it go buddy, you lost.

Was this the guy that got kicked out for embezzling money?

Huge RIP. The Black Parade is one of my favourite albums. Need to spin it again soon.

awww man this is so severely fucked up

laughing at the fate of some of society's most vulnerable is about as low as it gets, RIP to one of the first drummers i looked up to, sad as fuck and actually revisited the Black Parade this week

Pretty pathetic to shit on someone after they die for supporting the scary orange guy. No wonder over half the country voted for him, people are sick and tired of the psychotic arm of the progressives that (unfortunately) made its way into modern culture. You guys are and always have been a bunch of losers. If it wasn't for social media, all your bullshit would have never made it as far as it has.

His politics have no bearing on his death whatsoever and using it as a way to disparage him in death is real real fucking gross.

yeah i'm seeing a lot of people bash on this guy on twitter, surprised it's somewhat civil here. RIP, can't say i followed him much but he undeniably had some youngens air drumming to black parade and inspired many to pick up the drums. the situation overall just seems very tragic and i couldn't imagine what his families going through

we don't have to crap on the guy's death to admit there's a looooot of money in rage-bait and hatred in modern politics (as evidenced by just how much money was funneled into anti-trans ads... $200 million is no small sum) which he unfortunately may have fell victim to, guys. horrible way to go, feel for the man bc he was clearly not doing well. i don't think it justifies MAGA either, let's not do that.

also, twitter's garbage. hate and rage-bait gets pushed up the algorithm and it's one of the worst places to be.

agreed, been thinking of moving to bluesky but haven't comitted, everyday i look at twitter though it makes me want to quit. and yeah a lot of my families been brainwashed into stuff like that and all it did was create distance between me and them, i've lost some of them in recent years and it's a shame that it'll push people away from one another.

Bluesky's a bit quieter at times, but I'm liking that i can more easily ignore the shit that makes me mad. It's helping wonders during these times. Wish you the best of luck BAT, I use the moderation lists liberally as mute lists rather than block lists just in case there's false positives (especially on the Swifties one)

nice shitpost Mantis!

"Was this the guy that got kicked out for embezzling money?"

Nope. That was Michael Pedicone.

^TY
I was trying to figure out what happened to this guy and the theory is that he and Mikey had some conflict but we really don't know. The band kicking him definitely hurt him and I think he wasn't a part of the band in a way he wanted to be. I don't think he had anything after the fact so it is just kind of a sad affair. Im hoping mcr says anything at this point but if there is bad blood idk if we'll even get that.

Completely agree—politicizing someone’s death like this is beyond gross. It’s a sad reflection of how toxic online discourse has become when basic decency takes a backseat to ideology. Regardless of politics, someone’s death should be treated with respect, full stop.

Framing MAGA—or any political belief—as some kind of 'illness' people fall victim to, while using someone's death as a platform for political bashing, is next-level hypocrisy. If anything, this behavior reflects the very dehumanization and toxicity you claim to oppose. Political beliefs—whether we agree with them or not—are often shaped by genuine frustrations with societal issues, not just algorithms or rage-bait. Acknowledging this would help us have more meaningful conversations, instead of defaulting to the idea that certain ideologies are inherently 'wrong.'

I also want to recognize MantisTobogganMD’s sense of decency in pointing out how wrong it is to use someone's death as an opportunity for ideological attacks. To everyone else continuing to spew hatred from your echo chambers, do you realize you are the problem? When your first instinct is to dehumanize someone who has passed, you’re not fixing the issues you claim to oppose—you’re perpetuating them.

Respecting someone's humanity doesn’t mean agreeing with their politics—it means showing basic decency, especially in death. Comments like these don’t bridge divides; they only perpetuate the very hatred and division you claim to stand against. If we can’t find it in ourselves to show respect in death, what hope is there for unity in life?

I mean if you take that frame of logic to its most extreme end you might find yourself defending neo-Nazis and Klan members, there is such a thing as paradox of tolerance. No need to tolerate intolerance. But in Bob's case, it looks like him falling down that hole was less malice from the start and more spite because everyone wouldn't stop hating and he was super bitter and had mental health issues that weren't resolved.

I don't think it's right to frame MAGA as this innocent political stance that isn't fueled by hate, because when you look at how much money from MAGA ads are used for hate, you can see that just isn't true. I'm not gonna say everyone who voted for him is evil. But the ideology itself isn't some innocent bystander. Maybe in 2015 it was, but it's turned into maybe two degrees of separation away from the KKK and neo-Nazis at best.

RIP Bob Bryar. We can be nuanced about this. Its neither "MAGA is innocent" nor "HAHA HE DIED BECAUSE HE'S MAGA", the truth is rarely black and white like that. I don't know if there's unity possible right now when millions of people saw the $200 million worth of anti trans ads and still decided to vote in favor of oppressing us. Even the Democratic establishment is trying to abandon us because standing up for us is a "losing strategy." But regardless of where you stand, this is a horrible way to go.

What is this "MAGA is an ideology". It's a silly campaign slogan that got amplified and used by the left as a type of slur against conservative Trump supporters, as evident in this thread. People on the right may have ran with it a bit but to act like it's some kind of political party is silly. If anything it's a desire to take America away from the progressive trends that have destroyed America and really the world but it doesn't need a title.

The 'paradox of tolerance' argument is misplaced here. MAGA and neo-Nazi/Klan ideologies are entirely different, and conflating them shows a fundamental misunderstanding of both. If you genuinely believe MAGA is even remotely comparable to those hate groups, it’s proof of how deeply distorted and disconnected the discourse has become.

Falling down 'what hole'? The 'hole' of wanting a better economy, secure borders, and policies that prioritize American prosperity? The reality is that more than half of the country—including men, women, and people of all backgrounds—voted for Trump this election cycle. That’s not a 'hole'; that’s a reflection of frustrations with the current state of leadership and governance.

The claim that MAGA is 'fueled by hate' is an incredibly deep projection. Look at where most political attack ads, lawsuits, and campaigns focus their energy—tearing down MAGA and Trump. Meanwhile, MAGA as a movement is about a simple motto: Make America Great Again. It’s not an 'ideology' in the way you’re framing it. Conflating it with extremist groups not only diminishes any chance for nuanced discussion but also shows a lack of understanding of the actual issues at play.

If you want to have a meaningful conversation about the complexities of modern politics, let’s do that. But throwing out baseless comparisons to neo-Nazis and the KKK only fuels division and alienates people who are tired of these false equivalencies. Let’s move beyond this reductive rhetoric.

On my knees begging the mods to lock this thread

Damn beef, you took my point and made it actually sound intelligent. Thank you!

Don't ask me ask the $200 million of advertising directly promoting taking my rights away because I'm trans and people on congress like Nancy Mace hammering hard on Sarah McBride to not let her use the restroom because she wasn't born right. And the connection with neo nazi rallies that said "Jews will not replace us."

Ugh, here we go with the same rhetoric about "my rights."

Ebola - Calling for the thread to be locked because the discussion is too real for you? That’s just pathetic. Instead of engaging with points you don’t like, you’d rather shut the whole conversation down. Go cry to your mom if it’s too much for you—real dialogue requires more effort than begging mods to silence people. Avoidance won’t solve anything.

(This is not to Mantis' point - I appreciate the points you've raised just as well sir, or madam)

To Venin - It’s important to separate genuine concerns from exaggerated connections. Transgender rights and the rhetoric around them are critical issues, but linking $200 million in ads or individuals like Nancy Mace directly to neo-Nazi rallies is a massive leap. Conflating these only weakens the argument by making it harder to discuss specific points without falling into broad generalizations.

If we want real dialogue about rights and societal divides, we need to be precise and grounded in evidence. Throwing everything into the same bucket—whether it's ads, politicians, or hate rallies—doesn't foster understanding or solutions; it just feeds into the cycle of outrage.

Mantis, I don't know why you're being so hostile towards me for being worried that my life will be negatively affected dramatically by this administration.
As for Swaggu, I do get that. But both of those things were tied to the administration. Many supporters are extreme to the point of supporting repealing the 19th Amendment. They're not directly tied to eachother but they both have connections to the movement.

How was that hostile? What rights are going to be taken away from you? Are just worried about the bathroom issue? That's it? My God, the humanity.

Shit if you think that was hostile then you may be a bit emotionally fragile.

Mantis do you use Twitter lol, is majorine taylor green Maga or simply a conservative. Regardless I think when someone let's something dominate their life to the point it pushes people away from others, that's a problem. It's a two way street, if someone's being openly hateful to someone else's values, that person isn't obligated to put up with that.

Veninblazer, I get that you’re trying to make connections here, but tying extreme outliers—like repealing the 19th Amendment—to the broader MAGA movement feels like a reach. Just because a few individuals support something radical doesn’t mean it represents the majority or the intent of the movement as a whole.

I think part of the problem is how easily fringe ideas get amplified online, making it seem like they’re more connected than they actually are. Let’s be real: no serious legislation about repealing the 19th Amendment is on the table, and tying it to MAGA risks undermining genuine concerns by focusing on hyperbole rather than reality. If we want meaningful dialogue, we need to separate the fringe from the mainstream and engage with the actual issues at hand.

No I don't use Twitter, never have. And I'm not a big fan of Green or Gaetz for that matter. I'm not gonna lay it all out cause it'll turn into a silly back and forth because the internet doesn't allow for proper use of context.

To that point, is anyone in the "squad" Hamas or just progressive liberals who support them?

I'm worried about my ability to participate in pro wrestling as a trans woman because people believe my existence is inherently sexual. I'm worried about my ability to actually medically transition because Trump announced that he plans to ban HRT nationwide in all 50 states in an executive action.

Mantis your trying to get into internet fights now, anyways that's the behavior that led to thousands of people mocking someone's death, have some self awareness

No YOU believe your existence is inherently sexual. I believe your existence is inherently based on gender and DNA. Really there is no difference between sex and gender, it was until Dr John Money that there was a discrepancy between the two. Go look it up.

How am I getting into an internet fight? Someone made a point so I made a counter point. Someone made a claim, so I questioned them about that claim. Where is there a fight here?

Ngl considering Elon has a spot in his cabinet pretty much a lock and he's indirectly responsible for all these fringe ideas being signal boosted on Twitter it may just be a matter of time at this point unless Trump gets sick of Elon's shit lol

And I am not humoring a John Money reference tbh I just want to be able to safely (aka non DIY) transition and be able to wrestle or be involved in the business

It's funny the person who turned this into a political thread hasn't poked their head back in here.

It's not humoring anything, it's historical fact.

Mantis your shooting randomly trying to 'own the libs' by bringing up 'hamas supporters' on someone's RIP page, shit has nothing to do with anything you are just trying to insult/belittle anyone you can just for the sake of engagement.

there is a reason multiple trans subreddits ban things like Blanchardian views on trans stuff, i'm pretty sure that stuff has been discredited

know what i'm done lmfao, believe what you want, RIP Bob

Also stop going 'no YOU' while trying to pass yourself off as some sort of authority, it's silly

I'm not the authority on anything, I'm just referencing what the facts are really. I'm not trying to own anyone. When you used MTG as an example of "extremism" you said is she "MAGA or just a conservative." Clearly you think MAGA is some kind of extremist group or whatever so I made the same type of comparison.

Venin - I get that you’re concerned, and I’m not dismissing your worries about healthcare access or discrimination. Those are valid issues, and it’s clear that this is something you care deeply about. But at the same time, some of these claims—like a nationwide HRT ban via executive action or Elon Musk single-handedly driving anti-trans policies—don’t line up with how government or the economy actually works.

Sweeping executive actions would face immense legal challenges, and Congress plays a huge role in any policy changes. These systems are intentionally designed to prevent one person or administration from unilaterally imposing drastic measures like this. It might be worth revisiting how our government branches work to ease some of these fears.

More broadly, when we discuss the economy or political movements, it’s important to ground arguments in actual data and evidence rather than relying on narratives amplified through social media echo chambers. A lot of these stories—while emotionally resonant—don’t reflect reality. If we focus too much on the noise, we risk self-perpetuating fear and spreading misinformation that distracts from the actual, tangible challenges we face.

Recognizing what’s real and what’s exaggerated isn’t just helpful—it’s necessary if we want to have productive conversations that lead to meaningful change.

Yeah I really do hope the worst of it isn't happening. Especially since reports are already coming out that Project 2025 actually is the plan and people completely got lied to. It's easy to fall into panic.

I understand why you’re concerned, but it’s important to separate speculation from what’s actually happening. Project 2025 is a conservative policy proposal from groups like the Heritage Foundation—not an official government plan or a confirmed set of actions for the incoming administration.

While some of its ideas are concerning for LGBTQ+ rights, there’s no evidence right now that this proposal is being adopted wholesale. Any significant policy changes would require legislative action and face legal scrutiny, meaning it’s far from a done deal.

It’s helpful to stay informed, but basing fears on speculative reports about Project 2025 being 'the plan' could lead to unnecessary anxiety. Focusing on real, confirmed issues will better help us understand what’s happening and how to respond effectively.

...wait, is this a ChatGPT prompt??? LOL

I was hearing you out but the way this is written screams AI

Nope, just my own thoughts, rephrased and polished. Not everything needs AI to sound coherent, you know!

Even if it was AI, does it matter? The point still stands, and the logic is the same. Let’s focus on the substance, not the process.

Gotta love the subject change! When the argument’s solid, I guess you’ve got to find something else to critique.

It's VERY close to how GPT would respond at least

No big deal I just thought it was funny

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-disavowed-project-2025-during-the-campaign-not-anymore/

“Ngl considering Elon has a spot in his cabinet pretty much a lock”

He’s going to be an advisor but not an official cabinet position

Drifter it doesn't matter if he openly disavowed it numerous times. Just like the "good people on both sides" it's what he REALLY meant behind it.

Drifter, thanks for sharing the article. Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, so I couldn't read the full content. Did you have access to the full article? Sometimes headlines don't capture the full story, and it would be helpful to know more about what it says. If you could provide a summary or key points from the article, that would really contribute to the discussion about Project 2025 and its actual implications.

"Gotta love the subject change! When the argument’s solid, I guess you’ve got to find something else to critique."

that's how conversations work. this isn't a formal debate my dude.

Didn’t realize I’d need to teach a crash course on how conversations work, 'my dude.' Conversations are about engaging with the substance of what’s being said—not dodging the points by critiquing format or delivery. If someone has a counterpoint, they’re welcome to share it, but nitpicking the phrasing or polish is just avoiding the real discussion. Let’s focus on the actual argument, yeah?

is that how conversing with you is always like, my dude?

I don't think that's what he meant. Instead of addressing the content of the argument, vein instead chose to go red herring on it. Nothing on the internet is formal so what's the point

Swaggubeef: https://archive.ph/MbBcF

Archived the article to get around paywall

I was literally laughing because I thought the similarity to GPT was funny jesus christ

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-11-30/trump-appointees-project-2025

I mean, you kind of doubled down on it so...

the specific article doesn't matter. the info is widespread if you dont have blinders on

Thanks TheGreatQ.

Yeah, he appointed some individuals who had worked on 'Project 2025'... so what? Appointing people tied to a proposal doesn’t mean he’s adopting the entire document as his governing blueprint. Leaders appoint individuals with a range of experiences, and it’s not uncommon for appointees to have worked on various initiatives—controversial or not.

Unless there’s clear evidence that Trump is committing to every element of Project 2025, jumping to conclusions seems more like fear-mongering than a discussion about actual policies.

stop pretending you're interested in having a conversation. you're jusrt interested in 'winning' my dude. you're doing the maga crowd no favors. you expect others to extend their understanding to your position, but are not willing to meet the half way

@Mantis: I just thought it was funny, what's wrong with that? I'm not anti-AI.

Alright. My bad. I'll take your word for it. It just seemed like you were trying to avoid the convo so if that's not the case, I apologize

Nah lol I just find it funny dw

Projection much? You’re accusing me of being uninterested in a conversation while completely ignoring the substance of what I’ve said and deflecting to assumptions about my motives. That’s exactly the behavior you’re describing, 'my dude.'

I’ve been addressing the actual points, while you’ve focused on tone and intent. If you’re genuinely interested in having a conversation, it starts with engaging with the arguments, not projecting your own unwillingness to meet halfway onto others

yeah because sealioning vermin and harping about an off-comment about ai doesn't betray your attitude towards the conversation at all >:[ it's not nice at all

if u wish to advance the topic, here's a genuine question though: why do you think people have that perception about the maga crowd? is the party willing to accept any responsability or engage in house cleaning?

The burden of proof is on people like you to prove that "MAGA" is what you claim it is. And people like you think what they think because of the media, celebrities etc

"The burden of proof is on people like you to prove that "MAGA" is what you claim it is."

there it is

There what is? Why does he or anyone else have to answer a question that exists only because of lies and slander perpetrated by the media etc for years?

u kno

Why does it matter, in 2024—nearly 2025—that people use AI to restructure their thoughts? We’re in the digital and AI age; using tools to communicate more effectively isn’t a bad thing. If anything, those criticizing AI should try using it to challenge their own assumptions. They might realize how wrong their preconceptions are—and that self-awareness could make the world a better place.

As for perceptions of MAGA or any political group, a lot of them stem from people reacting emotionally rather than thinking critically. Too often, people just repeat what’s said around them without questioning it or seeking the truth. It’s sad how little genuine thinking happens these days. Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged is a timeless example of this—the ‘unthinking majority’ blindly following narratives rather than questioning or reasoning for themselves.

The whole party doesn’t support what some claim it does, and the facts are out there for anyone willing to look. Instead of living in echo chambers and amplifying fear, a little intellectual honesty and curiosity would go a long way toward building a better conversation—and a better world.

Ayn Rand lmao

@swaggubeef Gotta agree on the AI topic. There's a lot to AI that I don't like (mostly the whole generated art thing) but it's a useful tool nonetheless.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the "thought restructuring" part is about searching for phrases that describe the concept well. I've had some situations when I couldn't come up with good phrasing and unintentionally caused misunderstandings.

Some of those comments really look like AI tho.

Like I said.

My perception of Maga is based on growing up in a catholic, conservative household. I was registered as conservative from 2008-2017, had enough of my so called peers calling me a commie brainwashed by soros propaganda. My problem with current day Maga is the focus on cultural war nonsense, I grew up with friends coming out/transitioning and it was a non issue until the late 2010s. When I registered as a teen the only issue that's remained into modern discourse is abortion, and even then i was pro-choice. But yeah idk when I first brought up mtg my context was for twitter(which is where most of the backlash against this drummer resides): there are people who take Maga to an unhealthy level, usually they'll spend their time retweeting ai pictures of trump as a divine figure and call anything they don't like socialist. The pandemic has turned the rhetoric even more dividing than the gamergate Era. My opinion is that modern democratic party is pretty much conservative by the standards of any other country, yet Maga is hyperfocused on calling it a commie threat because that's the grift, that's what their influencers/public speakers are saying. Voting for trump or voting red doesn't make someone Maga imo, but these people who spend their days bitching about everything is a threat, yeah I would consider them radicalized. That doesn't take away their humanity though, but I do think people should try to get along with one another

@arthropod - People use Grammarly and other writing aids every single day, so while I’m glad you agree with me, it’s odd that you still bring up the 'some of these comments really look like AI' comment. Again, what does it matter? The focus should be on the content, not how polished it is.

who tf is this limp dick wannabe debatebro

@BAT - any chance you think the AI imagery of Trump as a 'divine figure' or some of the 'social rhetoric' could be taken as a joke? I mean, isn’t that kind of exaggerated idolization often tongue-in-cheek rather than literal? And honestly, when it comes to social rhetoric, isn’t it fair to say the Left engages in similar behavior toward the Right? Feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black here.

Ah, the classic 'throw an insult and add nothing of value' move. Well done.

@swaggu when the same people criticize the pope over a statement at odds with them, nahh not really. It may make them laugh but once again the problem is the obsession with making maga/trump their entire social avatar, its unhealthy as is the vice versa.

@BAT - Sure, I get where you’re coming from, but isn’t this a bit of a 'pot calling the kettle black' situation? The possibility that it’s just for laughs or social commentary—rather than literal obsession—can’t be dismissed so easily. Of course, there will always be outliers (like with anything else in life), but I doubt this applies to the majority.

For example, I know plenty of people who voted for Trump but don’t even like him as a person, and others who genuinely admire him. Neither group makes him their entire personality. Blanket statements about a whole population feel like intellectual dishonesty. If the goal is to have a meaningful conversation, it helps to focus on the nuance rather than painting everyone with the same brush.

Do you use Twitter cause mantis claimed to not, mtgs profile is a good example of a famous person with this inclination. And yeah like I said I don't consider the average republican voter Maga lol, most people are normal.

Why do you keep bringing up Twitter? Why does it matter if we use it? Is it cause it's not a regulated, progressive echo chamber anymore and people are allowed to speak their mind now?

Yeah I don't believe 75 million people are all ontologically evil. Most dont even gaf about this social media thing. My worry especially is, MSNBC and centrist "liberal" figures have been calling on Dems to abandon progressive stuff and the LGBT community in particular because it's a "losing issue". They were calling Kamala too woke when she was literally sucking up to Liz Cheney. Lol. Lmao, even.

Cause twitters what I'm referring with my definition of Maga people, and where most of the criticism of the topic of this thread posted his Maga views that had people up in arms. And what are you even talking about lol, do some research/spend some time on it and see where others claiming maga are talking about. Hell scroll throw the owners profile, or better yet spend some time on truth social that sites hilarious.

It's because the progressive ideology is destructive and the country voted against it. Having a conversation about the LGBT stuff is difficult on the internet. Context matters. Facial expressions, tone of voice matters.

BAT, wtf are you even on about?

See I would've called you normal but your doubling down on being stupid on someone's tribute page lol. I think it would've been equally sad if this dude spent his final years purity testing his entire fanbase into hating him.

Like i said, do some research bro knowledge is power

Ok.

I wonder if most Americans truly realize how far the Overton window has shifted rightwards. Al Gore was far more left-leaning than Kamala/Biden are. He supported full blown universal health care and most current establishment Dems can't even go further left than the compromise-deal Obama got with the ACA.

I don't even believe in "right/left" anymore. To me the two party system is dead because it's gotten so ridiculous. At this point you're either pro-America or you're not. I'm a populist through and through.

that's hella cringe bro

Anyways, yeah this really has gone off the rails. Let's just leave it at RIP Bob, I'm tired of having to try and debate my own existence atp. i don't even care if he was fine with saying "tr*nny" just fucking let him rest

How is that cringe? Left, right, independent... Who the fuck cares anymore. The waters are so muddy it doesn't even matter what "side" you're on.

“Yeah I don't believe 75 million people are all ontologically evil.”

Completely agree, I’m as left as they come but I understand why someone who isn’t quite as politically literate would vote for Trump. Die hard maga people can fuck right off tho. The “trans people are groomers” and “abortion is murder” crowd. Not the dum dums that think he’ll somehow magically fix the economy with his big beautiful tariffs.

Yup, those dum dums will soon realize tariffs are bullshit when gas is 10 dollars anyway tbh

Once again, further proof of why he won. 75 million people are just a bunch of dummies who don't pay attention and you know better? All the left does...celebrities, media, the Reddit crowd, you... All you guys do is talk down to people cause you think you're so much more "educated" on the matters.

Gonna start riding my bike a lot more and maybe make some “👉I DID THAT👉” stickers with the Donald on them

Yes, I quite literally am. Deporting 20 million people and imposing tariffs are going to completely fuck this country. I’m done explaining it nicely. I’ve been doing that for fucking years at this point.

Mantis, I’m with you on this one. The constant left/right framing feels outdated, especially when the issues we face are so much more complex than party lines. The focus should be on ideas, principles, and policies—not which 'side' you’re on. This mindset just perpetuates the underlying issues ad nauseum. At the end of the day, most people just want a functional, thriving country.

It’s wild how much this thread has gone off-topic (and, yeah, I’ll own up to being the one who called it out to begin with... lol, apologies). But I think we can all agree on one thing: RIP Bob. Let’s not forget why this discussion started.

Half the time he threatens with tarrifs...see Mexico. All of the sudden their president can assist with keeping people from crossing the border. And how is deporting illegals a bad thing again? I'm genuinely asking. I don't think he's gonna hit 20 million. What was your opinion when Obama deported like 7 million?

And again, Mantis, I’m with you on this one. The arrogance of constantly dismissing people as 'dummies' or 'uneducated' is exactly why so many people feel alienated by these conversations. Assuming superiority because of differing perspectives or priorities just perpetuates the divide.

As for Wildcard’s comments, frustration is understandable, but dismissing entire groups of people as “dum dums” or making snarky remarks about tariffs or deportation doesn’t really move the conversation forward. If we actually want to address issues like the economy or immigration, it takes a willingness to engage beyond just calling people names. At the end of the day, most people—left, right, or center—just want a country that works for them.

Well let’s see… the “left” wants healthcare, housing, free education, an easier pathway for citizenship for migrants etc

And the right and hard right want the complete opposite of that. Put migrants in concentration camps, deregulate the fuck out of everything, put women and doctors in jail for exercising their right to bodily autonomy, demonize LGBT people who by and large just want to be left the fuck alone.

I don’t really see what’s so muddy about that.

lol this thread is about as good as expected. Rest in piss to this absolute bozo

And Mantis, buddy, please don’t move goalposts and give me whataboutisms with liberal presidents. It wasn’t good when Obama did it, it won’t be good when Trump does it.

Wildcard, it’s interesting that earlier you criticized others for being divisive or not engaging thoughtfully, but this comment seems to fall into the same trap. Oversimplifying the left as purely benevolent and the right as entirely malicious just feeds into the polarization you’re describing. It ignores the nuance in these issues and the people behind them.

For example, many people on the right support improving healthcare and education—they just differ on how to do it. Similarly, not everyone on the left agrees with every policy under the progressive banner. Most people aren’t caricatures of their 'side.' Reducing the discussion to extremes like this only deepens the divide and makes meaningful conversations impossible.

If we’re going to have a meaningful conversation, shouldn’t we avoid these kinds of generalizations and focus on the nuance of the actual issues?

I’m not scrolling up but whoever said the Overton window has moved so far to the right is absolutely spot on. The fact that some fucking idiots who are ideologically literally fascist think that Kamala and Joe Biden are communists is the most insane shit ever.

This country is beyond fucking stupid.

Wildcard, I think Mantis’ point about Obama isn’t 'moving goalposts' or a 'whataboutism'—it’s about consistency. If deportations are bad regardless of who implements them, then it’s fair to ask why reactions differ based on the person or party in power. Acknowledging that consistency doesn’t excuse Trump’s actions; it just highlights the double standards in how these issues are often discussed.

If we can agree it wasn’t good when Obama did it and it isn’t good when Trump does it, shouldn’t the focus shift to the policy itself, rather than the person implementing it?

Wildcard, bold words for someone on a music review site! Are we debating politics or your taste in music here? Either way, both seem questionable. 😉

Tariffs are awful for economies. Protectionism is historically a bad precedent even as far back as when America was on the gold standard. Look at the history on it, when have massive tariffs ever truly made an economy flourish?

Imagine being so psychopathically dead-eyed that you belittle someone's passing because their political views differed from yours

We get it, Trump's a thick skulled river boat casino captain who doesn't know or care how tariffs work. Guess what: no one is gonna let him shoot the price of produce up to $20 overnight, the impracticality of his proposal will likely, hopefully, avert its passage, and no one in this pampered, lazy country is gonna start picking fruits and vegetables for 12 hours a day at substandard wages

Poor Wildcard has been fighting the good fight on here since before we were born lol

I’m picking up what you’re putting down. People that don’t really pay much attention to politics see how much their lives suck, Trump promised them that inflation will go down and that’s really all that they want to hear.

Look, I’m absolutely not a fan of Kamala or the Democratic Party at large, but if everyone just took 15 minutes to read policy instead of watching twitter soundbites I think we’d be in a much better position than we are right now.

Now, truly I really mean this, I hope it all works out. I hope Trump is a fantastic president. But the man is a complete fucking idiot, not to mention bigoted and very likely literally a rapist. I’ll take the lady that at least knows what she’s talking about even if she’s a piece of shit cop that locked up a bunch of nonviolent drug offenders.

Shamus I would lay down my life for the cause you know that. Wish there was a hammer and sickle emoji

Government regulation isn't always a good thing. No one wants to put migrants in camps. The abortion topic is so tired. No one is demonizing LGBT and like I said earlier, the topic is extremely nuanced and isn't easy to discuss on the internet. No one is trying to erase anyone's existence.

Ngl I just wish politics went back to being boring instead of a war zone like this.

@swaggubeef About the "some of those comments really look like AI" part, that was supposed to be just a remark, not an actual argument. Not my thing to judge whether you use AI for redacting comments or not.

And beef literally who the fuck even are you, go back to huffing glue or whatever the fuck it is that people who just now made a sput account do

Who the fuck are you? Just another faceless entity spouting opinions... Just like the rest of us. What, do your opinions matter more cause you have 14k comments on a fucking music site? Gtfo.

@Mantis, you’ve been one of the few voices consistently emphasizing nuance, and I really respect that. It’s refreshing to see someone step back from the hyperbole and aim for a more thoughtful discussion, especially on topics as divisive as these.

@arthropod, thanks for clarifying. AI or not, the focus should always be on the substance of what’s being said rather than how it’s written. Let’s keep the conversation productive and focused on the ideas at hand.

“Government regulation isn't always a good thing.”
It is when you put a man like RFK in charge of our nations health.

“No one wants to put migrants in camps.”
How exactly will mass deportation work then? Are we just going to give them a going away present and send them on their merry way? Btw undocumented migrants contribute far more to the economy than they take in, yknow, if you’re cynical as fuck and take empathy out of the equation.

“No one is demonizing LGBT”
Nancy Mace. Literally enough said.

Got anything else man?

Mantis nailed it. At the end of the day, we’re all just people sharing opinions on a music site. Wildcard, trying to gatekeep a discussion based on comment count or account age feels pretty weak

And once again, where is the retard that even started this whole thing? He did a really good job lighting the fuse and running away from the explosion.

"No one is demonizing LGBT"

You've already proven to be a bad actor, but I hope everyone else in this thread sees this take and can unanimously agree to ignore you

"No one is demonizing LGBT" then what was that $200 million in ads targeting the LGBT for?

Wildcard, I think we’d get further in this discussion if we tried to focus on substance instead of leaning into dismissive remarks. You raise some interesting points, but let’s break them down:

1) On government regulation: The effectiveness of regulation depends on its context and execution. Praising RFK for health oversight is fine, but it doesn’t negate Mantis’ broader point that not all regulation is inherently good or effective.

2) On deportation: The logistics of mass deportation are complex, no doubt. But isn’t that why this issue is so divisive? Dismissing concerns with snark doesn’t solve the underlying question of how to address undocumented migrants fairly and effectively.

3) On LGBT issues: Nancy Mace’s comments don’t represent everyone, and framing one person as a symbol for broader demonization seems reductive. A nuanced conversation would acknowledge that there are many perspectives, even within the right.

Got anything else? Sure—let’s have a discussion that moves past the hostility and focuses on actual ideas.

mantis and swaggu are 100% the same person lmao

I think the acknowledgement (not summarily throwing this at you Wildcard bc I agree with everything you said) that the Dems suck (and to go a step further, that they demonize outsiders as fascists, spoilers, etc) is a prerequisite for turnover in government. They've proven they won't listen to us even when pressured, they know people will not even apply pressure in the first place. And truthfully, i believe it starts with being willing to hold your vote hostage, and ends with just taking your vote elsewhere altogether

But this means the onus is on us to not only demand better but also work towards eliciting that viable alternative we need

Sadly, many are too content to settle for a "lesser of two evils," which, idk if y'all noticed, gets more evil every 4 years

Can't wait to hear how Gavin Newsom or John Fetterman is the last hope to save democracy in 4 years time

How will mass deportation work? I'm not in charge. Will there will someone kind of holding areas? Idk I'm sure but it's not like we are going to have illegals in camps for years and years. They don't contribute to the economy, they hurt when cities divert millions of tax payer money on them. They hurt it but taking jobs away from inner cities. However Trump fixes the issue, the optics are going to look bad regardless. I understand that. Unfortunately it's a job that needs completed. I do have empathy. I hope he offers a path for people who have been here for a decade plus illegally and don't have a criminal record.

Furthermore we wouldn't have this issue if it wasn't for the current admin giving 20m plus a literal free pass into the country. And empathy? Have you heard Thomas Homan speak about seeing dead children, dead women in fields. Seeing box trucks full of people who roasted to death? I have the utmost amount of empathy for those people. For those children being trafficked, being used as drug miles. Women being sold into sex slavery.

Venin already spit fire on the LGBT “issue”, so I’ll leave that one alone.

And I’m not being snarky? What are the logistics? We’re putting them in fucking camps, what other way does mass deportation work? I love that when I ask this question I either get conservatives saying that I’m being overly dramatic and then they’ll go on to call it a “complex issue”. Okay… fuckin break it down for me? Because it sounds like the logical endpoint is literally concentration camps.

https://www.epi.org/blog/immigrant-workers-help-grow-the-u-s-economy-new-state-fact-sheets-illustrate-the-economic-benefits-of-immigration/

What ads targeted the LGBT community? I'm genuinely asking. I saw the ad where Harris was committed to spending millions on free transitions for illegal, criminal immigrants. What other ads were there?

And ahh yes I remember the “bad hombres” bit that they did. And I remember that some dumb bitch that voted for Trump the first time around, who was married to a Mexican guy that didn’t have his papers and they deported his ass and she was left dumbfounded.

They. Are. Racist. They do not give a fuck about criminal records.

This article is speaking on LEGAL immigrants... Correct?

No, Mantis and I are not the same person. Although I think we’d get along—he’s by far one of the most level-headed voices I’ve seen on this site. Wildcard certainly lives up to their name, but I have to disagree with much of what they’ve said—it’s been inconsistent, overly dramatic, and often feels more like provocation than an attempt at real dialogue.

https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy

Sad that a fellow Sunny fan seems so reactionary

https://truthout.org/articles/republicans-spent-nearly-215m-on-tv-ads-attacking-trans-rights-this-election/

God, the GOP is really just fucking comically evil and they somehow convinced 75 million people that they’re the answer.

We’re so fucked.

And for the record, I’d think we’d still be fucked even if Kamala won. Just not quite as fucked.

Once again, if you're here illegally and have been contributing I think the path to citizenship should be a priority for them. Not all illegals are the same. However, the problem are the criminals. We have illegals literally taking over apartment complex's. In America. That shit should never happen here. The fact that illegals work like they do is a bigger indictment on American culture and how fat and lazy we've become. There are endless reasons for that. I'm getting off topic.

Deportation is going to be a very very difficult thing. I hope the decent ones don't get swept up in the madness but if they do, idk. Will it hurt the economy? Maybe. Maybe it'll be rough sledding the first year and then balance out in the end. But once again, he's having to fix an issue that should never have existed in the first place. It's funny though, people scream and shout and say "it's racist" if you support deportation. You know who hates illegals more than anyone? Legal immigrants. I work with one from Puerto Rico and one from Guatemala. They didn't get handouts. They didn't get to stay in high rise apartments for free. You know who else doesn't want them here? The black community that lives in inner cities. Go watch them destroy Chicago mayor Johnson.

“ I hope the decent ones don't get swept up in the madness but if they do, idk.”

Oh they will pal

how did this thread turn into this wtfffffffffffffff

One of the top ads pushed by the Trump campaign in October attacked Kamala Harris for supporting “taxpayer-funded sex changes for prisoners,” regarding her previous statements concerning access to gender-affirming care for incarcerated or detained people.

“I think that this is a classic fear campaign,” Reed told PBS News earlier this month.


They cited ONE ad. A fear campaign? What a ridiculous statement. People don't want their taxes spent on countless things it gets spent on but spending it on illegal, criminal immigrants and their sex change? Id say that's up there on the list of "fuck that."

Also the article is lying. It wasn't for "incarcerated or detained people"... It was for illegal immigrants.

Have you just not been paying attention or what? By and large the “illegals” are just like LGBT people. Trying to make their way in life and be left the fuck alone. But the right (including the DNC) needs a scapegoat for dimwits because they can’t admit that the decaying final stage of capitalism is why everything fucking sucks, it would lose them all that sweet sweet lobbyist money.

So they create scapegoats where there are none.

That’s my Ted talk, I’m gonna fuck off and smoke some loud to forget how completely and utterly fucked we are. Enjoy your $10 carton of eggs

How are you scare quoting illegals. They are literally here, illegally. Everyone gets emotional about the term "illegal alien" but that's what they literally are. Here, illegally... Alien to this land.

I’m Native American bitch you’re fucking here illegally how about that

Hahaha ok guy. Man. I love you. Honestly. I appreciate your dedication.

Go back to where you came from you’re not wanted here, “alien” if you will

@Wildcard This is my favorite bumper sticker: https://www.cafepress.com/shopdetail/shovelbums.694128035

Nearly every other ad that came up while I was watching sports during election season was some sht about trans people lmfao, it got so tiring, the frequency of it was so much that i think that 200 mil number is probably a lowball

No. Name one that wasn't the Harris ad on repeat.

Someone is getting emotional. I do though, I respect your utter dedication to your ideology.

I do have one innocent question Wild: if we're fucked either way, why don't we give up and just despair?

Personally I'm tired of seeing prageru every ad break on youtube

"to my ideology" and the ideology is just wanting to not be seen as my genitals, chromosomes, inherently sexual because something in my brain didn't align with masculinity and not wanting to be barred from medically transitioning

That was directed towards wildcard. My fault.

What time is it in the States?

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm going to sleep. Can't wait for whatever happens in the "Bob Bryar (MCR) dead at 44" thread tomorrow.

yeh i thought that was at me LMFAOO my badddd

Im not big on PragerU. I've also vastly limited my viewing of The Daily Wire to basically nothing.

Look vein, whatever you believe about conservatives, MAGA, the right... Whatever you wanna call it. People like me have their options on the gay and trans community but it involves more empathy than you might think. That goes for millions of others like me. Like I said, the conversation requires nuance but no one wants to erase you. No one is taking rights away like you think they may be. I don't consider the bathroom debate part of that (as a right) you can if you'd like. But no one is trying to do what you may believe they are. I don't know you, maybe you're a decent person. Maybe you're a total piece of shit. I don't care if you're trans, gay whatever. Being trans to me doesn't matter. Are you a decent person and are you for the good of the country. That's all that I and most of us give a fuck about.

@fowl
Literally rock a “No one is illegal on stolen land” one. Probably not the best idea in the red shithole of a state that I live in but ah well fuck it

“ if we're fucked either way, why don't we give up and just despair?”

Because I’m a white passing straight cis guy and I know I’ll be last in line when it comes to people that are gonna get fucked over. I do what little I can to help people that I care about.

Hey mantis do you remember when they sent a trans influencer one can of bud light with her face on it and that caused a nationwide boycott, including fuckin talentless hacks like kid rock opening fire on cases of it with an automatic rifle as a bunch of equally worthless people cheered it on?

Pepperidge farms remembers.

thread has a dire case of the retard

Yeah what about it. Because that dude is a piece of shit. He isn't trans, he is playing an offensive caricature of a woman. It's strictly for attention. Toy can call him what you want, I refuse to. People were up in arms because Bud Light chose politicize their product and people just wanna drink beer and not have an ideology shoved in their face.

It wasn't just a one off "here is a can". It was Bud Light being sponsored by Dylan.

"Literally rock a “No one is illegal on stolen land” one. Probably not the best idea in the red shithole of a state that I live in but ah well fuck it"

Based af

And the Kid Rock thing was corny but who cares. Did it offend you or something?

lol there it is. I really find it so fucking hilarious that I literally live in St. Louis, Budweiser is my beer of choice, and it wasn’t “shoved in my face” until I started hearing insufferable conservatives constantly fucking bitching about it.

It was one fucking can.

And idk fam if you don’t see that kid rock vid as intentionally inciting violence and/or bigotry against marginalized people then what the fuck are we even talking about.

You’re being so willfully ignorant because I know that you’re not that fucking stupid

Cherry on top: https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-bud-light-cans-destroyed-trans-debate-dylan-mulvaney-1793584

I know media literacy isn’t exactly the thing reactionaries are known for but it’s a pretty simple one

... Kid Rock shooting cans incited violence...

OK. You can lock the thread now. Please.

Idk man. Good luck in life or whatever.

“and/or bigotry” again I know reading comprehension probably isn’t your strong suit but I put that little bit there for a reason.

Also trans people are like five times more likely to be murdered over cis people but let’s really keep pretending that it’s all shits and giggles, and there are sooooo many conservatives that are actually totally fine with LGBT people

Fuckin moron

it's kinda hilarious that people think kid rock is some bastion of protecting children when in a children's movie he wrote a song about how he really loves to fuck underage girls

Ted Nugent too! We love protecting children though right?

Right??

imagine openly being against lgbt rights and in the same breath being like "we conservatives aren't all awful people!"

Is it cognitive dissonance or are these people actually just hateful pieces of shit dressed in sheep’s clothing?

I think it’s the latter. Like I’ve said, I totally understand the politically illiterate for voting the other way because shit just fucking sucks rn, but to the maga true believers? A sincere go fuck yourself. It’s only gonna get worse but I’m glad you pieces of shit are gonna suffer along with the rest of us

It’s only fair right?

It's funny how there are so many connections to project 2025 and the people Trump will be putting on his team. Yet MAGA defenders say, "ya they helped write it but it doesn't mean they are actually going to follow through with their plans that they wrote themselves." It's not like they have a majority in the house, senate, presidency, and the Supreme Court /s.

MAGA people love to downplay how other people feel.

How you feel? What do feelings have to do with anything? That's a problem in modern culture, feelings...overly emotional people.

God I really, REALLY hate to use this here but... "Facts don't care about your feelings."

Well here's a fact: by Matt Walsh's own logic regarding trans people, he distributed CSAM material and he should be locked up for some of the scenes in "What Is a Woman"

I'm not sure why the conversation continues to be about this. Bob's contributions to MCR were great and how I'd prefer to remember him by than this shit.

..... OK. I gotta get off this thread. Good luck everyone.

mantis and swaggu are 100% the same person lmao x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

also what the fuck they can make new accounts again? holy shit

Gen Z is doomed. MAGA is for your stupid ass grandfather and his xenophobia, not your incel asses.

Damn mantis you fuckin suck dude
“Good luck everyone”
You actively and knowingly participated in making sure we *didnt* have good luck. Eat shit man.

Again it’s fucking shameful that another Sunny fan has such dogshit politics. Like, you know that show is satire right?

"If it wasn't for social media, all your bullshit would have never made it as far as it has."

I'm way late to this but y'all are one to talk? lmao


nice username tho

Poopballs

I wasn't gonna jump back in here but I'm curious now, why do you keep bring up Sunny? Because I'm conservative I don't have an open mind? I can't enjoy a well written show featuring a gay character and satire about things I may or may not agree with? I think you're projecting.

I'd say if the show had a political "side", I'd say it's square in the middle.

Damn, all of a sudden I'm all for mods deleting comments. Wtf is this? Isn't it astute that the selfish right wing people decry the left of taking everything off topic then do shit like this? I'd even argue politics might be what got this guy kicked out in the first place, you dont get away with saying cops should shoot people or that bicyclists deserve death. Mental health isn't your fault but it is your responsibility etc

Honestly, the fact that Wildcard thinks being an IASIP fan is contingent on political alignment is the funniest thing in this thread. The show has spent like 15 seasons dunking on literally everyone, regardless of ideology. Imagine trying to 'gatekeep' who gets to enjoy a show that thrives on being chaotic neutral—it’s almost like he misses the satire memo entirely. Pretty sure the Gang would, too. (Props for the username though—it fits!)

Also @ConcubinaryCode, it’s funny how you criticize the thread for going off-topic while contributing to it yourself. If the goal is to keep things on track, maybe speculating about someone’s personal life isn’t the way to do it. Just a thought!

The thread got thrown off topic by some TDS wierdo, not by some "right winger."

ctrl+f how many off-topic comments that one user made vs u

Irrelevant. Who started the thread down the political path. One person started it, other people chimed in and the domino's fell. I was like the 5th person to even jump in. So. Ctrl-F your dad. I'm sure it gets lonely at Christmas for mommy.

My first comment was asking if this was the drummer that embezzling from them and offering more. That's the problem with your type, you assume everything and offer nothing but whining and contempt. Is it a wonder no one wants to talk to you? We are not the same.

That's the problem with your type, you jump to assumptions with whining and contempt...

I wasn't even talking about you in the first place. Did you even read before your first comment? Anyway.

This is the comment that started it.

"I'd care more maybe if he wasn't a MAGA POS
so lol owned"

That was more @ swaggu but that also brings up how under attack you people always feel. Is what you quoted really that bad anyway? Do you really think him saying he's not affected by his death means bob bryar wasnt a good drummer or anything because that's not really the point.

Dude. It's the internet. You made that comment right after what I fucking said. How would I not read it as a reply to me? Jesus. It doesn't change the fact though. It wasn't one of "us" that started this dumb shit. It doesn't matter. But see. First, it was "LOOK WHO MADE IT POLIITCAL" and when you find out who it was it's "Grow up it's not a big deal."

The comment you quoted at the very least addresses the person in the article and offers (negative) insight that people mightve missed, granted it wasn't you that started anything it's still annoying that the people that claim free speech can't stand it when it isn't there's. I really don't understand your last sentence either.

Oh boy I'm so excited to log into my favorite website Sputnikmusic and read what my new favorite dumbfuck is saying

*brain melts and pours out of ears after reading half a message*

Btw that was directed at mantis/swaggu since it seems like you struggle to read

He made one comment and everyone else started fighting everyone because of it. Ironically he made the right call by not popping back in, he just did one thing and then went about his day not worried about what some rando turd on the internet thinks. And I know it's bold coming from a terminally online shit like me but that's shit I need to learn to live by better

So free speech means you're not allowed to be critical of said speech? I'm a free speech purist and I don't believe in hate speech. You can say literally whatever you want as long as it isn't inciting someone to do something or saying you will or directing an action to happen.

the internet is so much fun

Yes. He said one thing. He politicized a very non-political article and (I guess) surprise to some on here it turned political.

the funnest i am having fun

It'd be nice if you were more critical of more than just left leaning people I think is what I'm getting at. I kinda just skimmed through all the comments and its just tiring seeing the same arguments pop up as if we're speaking a different language. I dont get it.

This thread rn: https://youtu.be/BuPofpPyVkU?si=qf-CkIuRmrgmp4X3

lots of funnies here, this sure be true

What about the right do you want me to be critical of? I don't think abortion should be allowed out right, I don't believe we should be giving Isreal as much money as we have, I don't think Trump giving stimulus money was a good thing, I also don't think it was a good idea to leave Afghanistan. I don't like Gaetz, or McConnell. I mean name something else.


I meant I don't think abortion should be disallowed out right.

I'm not gonna be critical of beef because I agree with everything he said.

life lesson, and this applies to me as well: we don't always need to make a big deal out of these things, sometimes you can see a comment you don't like, ignore it and move on. not everything needs to be a debate.

@ConcubinaryCode, it’s funny how you accuse others of whining and assumptions while doing exactly the same thing. If you want to have productive conversations, maybe start by recognizing your own hypocrisy—it would probably make people more willing to engage with you.

And let’s be real: arguing endlessly on a music review site about politics isn’t changing anyone’s life. Trump being in office isn’t the end of the world, and the constant doomsday rhetoric helps no one. If everyone in this thread spent more time addressing real issues with actual solutions instead of petty insults, we might actually get somewhere.

You're absolutely right venin.

Also @ConcubinaryCode, you’ve been going full debate mode since you got here, but now you agree that we should ignore comments and move on? The irony is doing all the work for me. Life lessons are great, but they’re even better when we practice what we preach.

this is for everyone here regardless of affiliation: we don't always need to engage with every single thing we dislike. swaggu, wildcard, mantis, me, everyone here that started fighting. let's just move on. i think we all got a little too ahead of ourselves.

Fair enough.

I'll humor you, Swaggu.

I'm an independent, fiscally and socially left-wing in just about all cases, though. If you pressed a gun to my skull and *forced* me to be a Democrat, I'd be a George McGovern Democrat (guy who famously lambasted Congress for Vietnam), a Dennis Kucinich Democrat (guy who tried to tie up the ACA to get single payer and got gerrymandered), or a Mike Gravel Democrat (guy who read the Pentagon papers on the senate floor so they'd be part of the record and readily accessible to the American people)

Here's what I support: divesting $$ from all these stupid regime change wars and instead investing more on healthcare, education, infrastructure and so forth. We already spend more than anyone else on healthcare, yet we have worse outcomes, more obesity, higher mortality rates, and lower life expectancy. How can we fix this?

No escaping the psychotic arm of the progressives.

Great thread.

swaggubeef, did you join this website yesterday just to comment here? Lol. Don't respond. I don't actually care.

RIP Bob

I ram my dick into the golden gate bridge with Mantis' tears

No one is gonna give me a little credit for the "Ctrl-F" jab? I mean it wasn't the best but I thought it was a little clever. I mean if I knew he didn't have a dad it'd be hilarious but otherwise, I thought it was alright.

it was not funny at all no

Damn. I'll try harder next time. I really appreciate the constructive criticism though.

start by logging off

“I wasn't gonna jump back in here but I'm curious now, why do you keep bring up Sunny? Because I'm conservative I don't have an open mind? I can't enjoy a well written show featuring a gay character and satire about things I may or may not agree with? I think you're projecting.

I'd say if the show had a political "side", I'd say it's square in the middle.”

Lmfao. Conservatives and not having an ounce of media literacy. Name a more iconic duo

How does that help my comedy career? Oh I get it, it doesn't. Once again. Appreciate the honesty.

"Name a more iconic duo"

Dance Gavin Dance and controversy

And beef, you’re literally a fucking moron. Danny rallied for Bernie. Really try to tell me how that’s dunking on every side you fucking idiot. Your fucking cousins couldn’t stop fucking each other and now we’re left with your dumb ass

Solid counter shamus I’ll allow it

Mantis, dude you can literally just suck my dick from behind my fucking legs. You very carefully explained that you don’t hate migrants and trans people, and then typed full paragraphs shitting on them. Fuck you and everything you stand for.

Once again, love you if anything for your dedication. Keep it up. Doing big things.

this is like accidentally stumbling into the chat room for your old high school debate team

going to sput for political discussion is always a very dumb idea.

I’m doing “big” things, as opposed to doing shitty things and somehow not having the self awareness to put a gun in my mouth for what a piece of shit I am.

I’ll take the first option, you’re the one that has to live inside that dogshit vessel you call a body.

Damn dude, you are one emotional human being. I'm not surprised though. But I get it, because I'm a "misogynist, bigot, homophobic, xenophobic, racist, Nazi, transphobic, arachnophobic, agpraphobic, hemaphobic, naviphobic, Metaliphobic" piece of shit telling me to go kill myself is a-ok in the cult that is the progressive liberals. It's funny I've stayed mostly away from personal attacks this entire time yet, it's all you've done. Honestly I don't care. I still love you for the dedication to your craft of being a loser. Plus based on such emotional responses you've had, I'm assuming you're fat, wear glasses, have a beard and always take pictures with that stupid soy face smile.

Keep being you though. The harder people like you push, the more people will reject it as was proof in the election

Oh what's your opinion of the new Sunny season? I thought it was OK but it's getting clear it's on the downswing. Best sitcom of all time though right? Us fans gotta stick together.

lol another big thing reactionaries say is that libs are “emotional”. Yeah, I get kind of emotional when we’re talking about millions of people getting deported, women’s rights being set back 60 years, LGBT people being demonized even more than they already are, and the prospect of Gaza being turned into a fucking parking lot, yknow, doing even more damage than what has already been done.
I think most people with a beating heart would get a little emotional at the prospect of all that.
I think there’s really two types of conservative voter. Just your average joe that’s kinda dumb/ignorant and then the pieces of shit that get a rise out of other’s suffering meanwhile shit is literally getting worse for them too.

But hey at least we’re getting rid of all the gays and brown people right? They’re surely to blame for how much gas and eggs cost.

Look I'm not a mod or anything but it'd be nice if you two would take it to shouts if you wanna scream at eachother so bad, this is getting fucking ridiculous. everyone has lost the plot.

Newer Slowdive is better than the old stuff

You guys said literally all that the first time and it never happened. Rise out of suffering? Did you read anything I posted, at all or did your little irrational brain cause you to ignore the parts you glossed over? The war in Isreal should be done. They proved their point and if I'm being honest, Oct 7th was their 9-11 in the way they let it happen for an excuse to go to war. Although I think the Bush admin actively orchestrated 9-11.

Getting rid of gays and brown people. Emotional. Irrational. Illogical. Keep on keeping on. Keep pushing. Keep exposing yourself. I'll give vein credit. They (no offense I don't know your gender and I mean that with respect) claim to be trans and have been less emotional about my opinions (even though I'm not sure there is anything to get worked up about) than you have so credit where it's due.

Who is Slowdive? Is it like Poppy. I love her new album.

quite impressive this site can continue to sink to new lows after all these years. well done! i hope you're all proud.

GAHDdamn this thread has unironically reached 'Bush did 9/11', keep giving us the sweet wisdom nuggets Doctor Toboggan

Yeah I know right!? I refused to even think about it for 20 years until I spent some time giving the "conspiracies" a shot. I'm not saying I'm right, I hope I'm not but their is good amount of evidence to the contrary. Just my opinions.

@Mantis: She/her but they/them is one I'm accepting of so you're good on that. I just want to be able to live my life atp no use getting too worked up on if people mess up a pronoun or two out of not knowing

I'm surprised you started thinking at all, I'd quit that if I were you, you don't seem particularly grounded

I can't fly although that'd be cool.

You should steal Taylor Swift's private jet then start flying it over Drake's house @Mantis

Vaguely gesturing at 'a good amount of evidence' is the internet equivalent to flapping your arms really hard before jumping off a cliff so I think you're a lot closer than you even know

Aight since we're turning this into conspiracy theories: JFK wasn't actually assassinated, his head just sort of did that thing. And the Beatles weren't a band, it was just Ringo Starr running really really fast.

https://archive.org/details/911revisited/September_11th_Revisited_v2.wmv

You can watch it if you'd like. Even if you don't buy into the conspiracy of it all, it's a very interesting watch none the less.

Wow! Very interesting misinformation to rationalize towards a premeditated conclusion! You're so unbiased in your research methods. Let's read your review!

"I was a "some terrorists did stuff" guy for the last 15 years. I refused to believe the US Gov could go so far as to murder 3k people in a ploy for money and war. Then with a rational and open mind began to look into it myself and started questioning information released about this incident. After watching this though, I'm not sure how one could NOT believe it was an inside job. The evidence is literally staring you in the face. Countless first hand accounts of the detonations, video evidence of the same, the complete fraud that is the "pancake theory"...all lies."

How illuminating!

Now, do you have any other sources of information you'd like to give me? Like first hand interviews with these perpetrators? There must be a lot of whistleblowers who have come out after such a horrific and unprecedented event!

the looming tower is an amazing book about everything that went on during that time. I don’t get loud a lot, but 9/11 conspiracy theories are extremely disrespectful. Weird how this thread got here, but it shouldn’t have

Rest well, Bob.

Dude. What? I personally believe there is more evidence that it was an inside job than the contrary. Once again, my personal belief. Idk what you're getting so ate up about. Relax a bit.

First hand interviews with... Perpetrators from who's perspective? You're post is all over the place so I'm having a difficult time following. They had interviews with people on the ground. People who worked in the buildings, the interview with the guy who owned building 7 and how he took out a massive insurance policy right before hand. How the building got "pulled" aka controlled demolition. The entire video I sent are MIT professors going step by step of the buildings collapsing. Maybe they're full of shit idk but they bring up good points.

Your personal belief is dumb and disrespectful to the people who lost their lives so I'm treating it dismissively.

Yes, first hand interviews. Did you know that the point of investigative journalism is to figure out things like this? That's why the abuses of the Patriot Act are so well understood, because there is a clear trail of evidence linking the US government to spying on American citizens that journalists have risked their lives to uncover. Where is 9/11's Edward Snowden or Chelsea Manning? Are you really suggesting that the US government orchestrated an attack on itself that killed 3k people and no American involved in the process said a single thing (keep in mind that this includes the ENTIRE Pentagon)? Cool appeal to authority tho, do you know the names of those MIT professors by chance? Because the NIST report is actually quite comprehensive and explains very easily how the towers actually fell, but, if you don't trust that, maybe read the Popular Mechanics article instead? Or The Looming Towers as efp has so helpfully recommended?

Dude, I try to keep it chill on here. Respectfully fuck off with that though. That book I mentioned above lays it out way better than I can. I’m not expecting the whole world to give us sympathy, because the US has done way worse. That shit was real though. Don’t get that twisted

How is it disrespectful? People lost their lives that day, whoever did it... It's still a fucking tragedy. I like million others joined the military after that happened so get fucked.

And if the US government really did it, I mean factually did it would you wanna even know? I mean trust in the US government is at an all time low now... If we knew that government committed such a terror thing... I mean it'd be chaos in the streets. Same with the JFK assassination and the idea the CIA was potentially behind it under pressure from LBJ. You think the government isn't capable of such heinous acts? Go look into the Bush family and their ties to Bin Laden and the Saudis or their membership on skull and bones. The Bush family is straight up evil.

Furthermore do you really think the US government just let everyone in on their plans for 9-11 if they did in fact do it?

oh lordy

This has gone totally, totally off the fucking rails.

rest in peace, what a sad way to go.

can a mod get in here and clean this up for Bob's sake?

call lizzo fat that's the only way a news thread can be wiped

That's not even (as) true anymore.

Dude, you set the place on fire. And now you’re like: wut?

Yes, I contributed to it going off the rails. Your point is what exactly.

You have provided zero concrete examples and clearly have zero idea of how the government works. You wanna know a real conspiracy from the 60s? MKUltra. You know why we know it happened? Because people can't keep secrets. Again, which MIT professors are you referencing? Quit dodging when I ask for specifics.

Go watch the video, their names are in it. I'm not doing the leg work for you.

Also, that book I was referencing earlier has been made into a documentary on Hulu if you need to be spoon fed

The only professor I can find who supports your hypothesis is Jim Fetzer, who is also a Holocaust denier. Is this the professor you're referencing or is there another?

Yeah I'm not sure if that's the man's name from the video. You'd have to watch it.

So you believe something without knowing the sources of that information?

No. My source is the documentary I linked to. You should watch it, it'll have the names you request.

I'm not interested in the documentary, just interested in demonstrating you know nothing, so thank you for that at least

Oh. OK.

Bush didn’t do 9/11 but him, Colin Powell, Cheney and all the rest of those bloodthirsty pieces of shit sure were happy that it happened. We got to invade the wrong country, make military contractors millions, and kill half a million people ensuring that there’s a whole new generation of “terrorists” that hate America for a very good reason.

“America deserved 9/11 dude, fuck it I’m saying it… in a video game”

This thread is a perfect example of why the rest of the world is laughing at America. Jesus christ.

Idk doesn’t Germany have a Nazi problem again, the UK with all the brexit bullshit, Italy electing fascists, whole world seems kinda fucked homie

I was a freshman in high school when The Black Parade came out, just starting to learn drums. I was a stupid, snobby metal kid who only wanted to play songs that used my double bass pedal, even though I sucked horribly at it. But I remember hearing the thundering toms of the title track's intro and having it cut through all of my cynicism. I felt inspired. It is very hard to explain how huge it all felt as a kid living in New Jersey back then. I didn't even join sputnik until the next year. I will always be grateful for how that music made me feel and how it was a formative part of me learning drums, something that would be a huge part of my life for years. I've also been an addict and an asshole who alienated people in my life who loved me. I've struggled with suicidal thoughts since before I even heard those tom fills years ago.

Now I'm in recovery and I'm a social worker who works with suicidal kids basically every day. Reading this news genuinely fucked me up (as suicide in the news often does anyway), because I really had one of those "There but for the grace of god go I" moments. So much pain and shame. The confusion and possible guilt the band must feel. It's overwhelmingly tragic, and made all the moreso by the conversations I have read not just here, but all over the internet following this news. There are a lot of conversations we could be having here about how complicated and sad this all is. Maybe it's not too late to have them here if folks are willing to pivot this conversation in that direction. I hope you will. I don't post a lot, but I've been lurking on this site consistently for 17 fucking years. I love this dysfunctional place. But we can do better than this, what I've seen in this thread.

I think it's completely fair game to scorn the recently deceased for their contemptible character and views... if you would be willing to do so when they're alive there's absolutely no reason to refrain from doing so when they die... of course you should use some tact and grace in deciding where, when and how you go about it.. you wouldn't be justified in immediately slagging them off to grieving family or friends or perhaps even fans, but to condemn anything besides adulation for the dead seems like semi superstitious nonsense to me, a vestige of religious and pagan fears more so than respect.

And I know the world isn't made of heroes and villains, but if a reprehensible individual dies - a recidivist offender of heinous crimes, a bloodthirsty dictator, a sex trafficker, a hateful bigot, a megalomaniacal cult leader etc - that can be well worth celebrating, as most of us would if we were to receive news that certain notorious figures had finally fucked off the planet - in any case it shouldn't be treated with same solemnity and reverence as should a typical person's passing. You might argue that they were merely a product of their dysfunctional upbringing and a victim of their own circumstances - objectively we all are - but while that might explain it doesn't excuse or soft-pedal the severity of their actions, nor should it really alter the general sentiment surrounding their death.

Besides, death can serve as a cautionary tale and catalyze constructive conversation to hopefully prevent perhaps even just one other from dying to similar circumstances. It's one of the only silver linings when a tragic death occurs, another being that they're no longer suffering.

As for this guy I don't know enough about him to comment on him. But MAGA are obviously scum to anyone with a heart and a brain

^^by far the best take

i ain't reading all that. im happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.

How the fuck did we go from "former drummer dies" to "9/11 was an inside job"?

don't pretend to be surprised

new lows [2]

I like million others joined the military after that happened so get fucked.

why is it always somebody dies or x leaves band news threads that do this

Because there will always be a post that strikes the match by highlighting that person's character (whether substantiated or rumored) that thrusts the thread in a new direction. Then conversation devolves from there into left vs. right mud-flinging before someone inevitably mentions that 9/11 was orchestrated by the United States. I've seen it countless times.

But really, some people become way too attached to a band and its vision, regardless of if that vision is/was shared by the individual members (in this case, probably not) and then the person or the music becomes sacrosanct against any possible criticism. Reality is, shit people deserve criticism whether they are alive or dead. Being dead can serve as a temporary hold on that but criticizing the dead should not be as taboo as so many pearlclutchers want it to seem.

thanks that wasnt rhetorical at all i had no idea wow fascinating world

I'm not affected that he died, really. If he was a pedo or something, by all means say whatever. But he was just a Trump supporter and the comment that started this entire thing isn't a reason to shit on the guy. Furthermore it only bugged me because it's so tired, the whole "orange man bad" narrative and using it as an excuse to be a dick to someone, alive or dead. You can have your opinion all you want, but those opinions are once again why over half the country voted the way they did.

Aren’t you guys the free speech warriors?

Absolutely. Free speech doesn't mean said speech is free from criticism or rejection though.

Wait so half the country (the folks who like Trump because "he says it like it is") got butthurt when leftists told them "like it is" and it hurt their feelings? Tough fucking shit man.

Also, orange man is bad because he turned a whole contingent of people against the actual principles of the fucking country. His shit absolutely trickled down and he and his ilk are deserving of criticism and way more. But apparently that'll hurt their feeling so much that they'll actually vote. Like...I don't get what the point of this is.

damn this is still going? been arguing for 2 days with people whose initial reaction was just 'views aside, rip that's sad.' and trying to condense it down to simply 'orange man bad' is just laughable: simply put this guy spent his final years insulting his longtime fans, if you haven't noticed mcr has amassed a pretty big lgbtq fanbase and bobs final documented words include slurs. likee have you read/listened to a single interview with gerard way in the past decade? bob's late interactions are opposite of what the band has supported. if your argument is just 'people shouldn't be offended by him because i actually side with his views,' that's still just straight up disregarding other peoples agency.

to bring it to an example of someone whose still living that'll undoubtably have some internet smartasses joking around in a sudden/unexpected demise: john dolymayan from system of a down, serj has built the band on very liberal, 'fuck bush' values. like they've done music videos directed by michael moore, yeeet in recent years john has come out on his socials as being very against serjs values [outside of recognizing the armenian genocide]. the fanbase that gravitated towards serj political posturing is likely to think less of john, and yes on one hand that's kinda fucked up on a human level but everyone's human and allowed to process things in their own way. personally: i'd still think it'd be pretty sad, i'm glad the dudes doing well at the moment and still cherish all the stuff i grew up with. sidenote: when tom morello goes he'll also have edgelords bashing him online, it goes both ways.

Is his transphobic tweet using the term "tranny?" Is there more than that? While maybe not overly accepted these days to be totally outraged by the word is a bit ridiculous. Are there more? I never read all his tweets in fact I never followed the guy after he left the band. The entire point of all this is the original comment shit on the guy for what he said and equated "MAGA" in the same breath. That's my point. I don't ever use or call myself "MAGA" but it's usually used in leui of calling one's self a Trump supporter. You can believe, say, do, whatever you want. I personally won't get offended by much. MAGA is always used as a slur to offend Trump supporters. I am not offended by it in one bit, it's just so so tired and really just eye rolling at this point. Did I come out against the comment, sure but only in defense of spitting on the dead for their political views. If he was a Biden supporter and the thread devolved into some political bs I'd have chimed in as well.

If the comment said that he was a genuine piece of shit (and maybe he is) and pissed on the guy, whatever. But when specifically he's called a Trump supporter and THAT'S why he's a piece of shit then it just politicizes his death and I think shitting on the guy for ONLY his political views is stupid.

how many awful people does it take for the maga crowd to accept there's some shit going on in their group

he had a history of comments like that, it's just sucks that's the last thing on record. and yeah the people who were like 'ewww he's maga what a pos' dipped out of this thread long before it devolved into political discourse. some people jumped in after that were a little more unapologetic but ehhh that's where the ship was steered

I like maga people in a weird way. They’re loud about how stupid they are and that makes it far easier to avoid them

It’s honestly staggering how much projection and echo chamber thinking is happening in this thread. For your own sake, take a step back and look up those terms—it might do some good. Mantis, at least you’ve kept things grounded. The rest of this is just noise.

You’re his alt

Totally. And we are both MAGA-supporting Lizard people

if swaggu isn't the alt their either discord buddies or goto the same school, i remember trying to back my friends dumb[usually metal centric] arguments here back in the late 2000s and it was equally embarrassing in hindsight

I do believe in lizard people.

Ah yes, because clearly anyone who agrees must be besties or sharing a brain cell. Spoiler alert: I’m almost 30, long out of school, and just happen to agree with someone being rational. What a concept!

Conservatism isn’t rational. Next topic.

Why is it so hard to believe that two people have conservative views on a site that swings liberal when politics are injected. That just goes to show how narrow minded and narcissistic some of you are.

"BUT BUT EVERYONE SHOULD THINK LIKE ME!"

i'm speaking on personal experience, call it projection if you want but i've never spent two days calling someone 'nuanced' for simply agreeing with them, imo mantis is about as nuanced as wildcard : and that's fine but if i was sitting here saying woah wildcard your so nuanced, red flags would be raised. notice no ones accusing anyone else in this thread of being an alt, and it's the lack of obvious signs.

Yes. Just declare something you don’t agree with as ‘not rational’ and move on. Again, I’ll refer you back to my earlier comment—maybe take a moment to look up the definitions of ‘projection’ and ‘echo chambers.’ It might help.

BAT, acknowledging nuance isn’t the same as blind agreement. It’s about recognizing thoughtful engagement, which is rare in threads like this. Dismissing it as a ‘red flag’ feels like another way of avoiding the actual substance of what Mantis is saying—just like the original assumption that two conservatives on this site must be the same person.

Yeah no clue who beef is. I don't even use Discord, I'm 38, never been to college (lolz thatz why you're a Trump supporter, just your dum). See unlike most of the progressive types, I don't like in an echo chamber and get pissy pants when someone doesn't have the same views as me. I genuinely wanna know why you think the way you do. Now in someone's case as wildcard, you represent every stereotype. Narrow minded, narcissistic, overly emotional, take personal shots instead of focus on the issues etc.

i find nothing about mantis statements to be subtle or shaded, they're completely blunt i.e. not nuanced. i'd only call them nuanced if i was being sarcastic, but that's just me idk

Then maybe take a moment to look up the definition of 'nuance' while you're at it with 'projection' and 'echo chamber.' Understanding these terms might help clear up some of your confusion.

well for me to put it bluntly, and as unnuanced as possible : "Then maybe take a moment to look up the definition of 'nuance' while you're at it with 'projection' and 'echo chamber.' Understanding these terms might help clear up some of your confusion."

take your own advice dude cause i think you're digging yourself a hole, you're echoing mantis like a reverb pedal.

Echo chamber lmfao, I’m surrounded by right wingers all day, live in a deep red state.

Saying that I’m in an echo chamber from a self admitted daily wire subscriber is actually hilarious. Go listen to Benny talk about his wife’s chronically dry pussy or whatever it is they talk about over there

BAT, simply saying 'take your own advice' doesn’t make a point—it’s just deflection. If you disagree with me, engage with the argument instead of resorting to vague comebacks.

Wildcard, being surrounded by opposing views doesn’t mean you’re not in an echo chamber if you’re unwilling to actually listen to them. The fact that your response is to mock and stereotype instead of engage kind of proves my point.

An echo chamber isn't when you agree with someone, it's when you surround yourself strictly with like minded people, search out only the information you agree with, or straight up avoid conversation with people you disagree with. This is not any of that.

i think you don't know the meaning of 'nuance,' and you don't understand how hypocritical you are saying everyone else here is an echo chamber while unapologetically repeating everything mantis does with a '*thumbs up* bro you get em.' likewise projection, what i have projected onto anyone here? do you think i'm an alt? like what are you on about. anyways that's my argument, i think you're being myopic and your projecting harder than anyone else on this thread. like i said i'd only be posting like you if i was being sarcastic, if i were to project onto you i'd say your trolling cause if i was in your shoes that'd be my exact intent with using 'nuance', 'projection', and 'echo chamber' so ignorantly.

BAT, let’s break this down:

1) You accuse me of projection while spending your entire comment trying to psychoanalyze my intentions, which ironically is a perfect example of projecting your assumptions onto me.

2) Agreeing with someone (Mantis in this case) doesn’t mean a lack of nuance—it means I find their argument compelling and well-reasoned. Supporting someone’s points isn’t blind repetition, and conflating the two suggests you’re struggling to separate agreement from a lack of independent thought. Which, again ironically, is projection on your part.

3) You’ve thrown out terms like 'sarcastic,' 'myopic,' and 'ignorant,' but haven’t provided any explanation for how my use of 'nuance,' 'projection,' or 'echo chamber' is incorrect. It reads more like a rant than a reasoned critique.

If you want to continue this conversation productively, I’d suggest focusing on addressing points directly instead of defaulting to personal assumptions or vague accusations.

1. i'm not psychoanalyzing shit unless calling someone a hypocrite that's accusing others of shit they're clearly doing is psychoanalysis [idk i don't have a degree.]

2. you can agree with mantis all you want, but nothing he said would ever be considered as nuanced. print this thread out hand it to a teacher [preferably one with right leaning beliefs] with mantis name highlighted on all of his posts, and ask the teacher if mantis is being nuanced with his arguments. you're using the word wrong lol.

3. once again i've described myself as sarcastic and feigning ignorance, i do earnestly think your being myopic and if you think 2-3 sentences is a rant: you do need some reading comprehension exercises, learn about the words you use before using them.

and nah i don't really care about productive conversation at this point, i gave my personal assessment and you're not even trying to engage in anything. if you think i haven't addressed any of your points: you need reading comprehension exercises, your using language incorrectly and making it harder for people to take you seriously.

I thought this was going to calm down.

At this point I think it's just a straight political discussion, or whatever you wanna call it.

i'm dipping out i've gotta goto work, if this is still going on tomorrow evening i'll check in but yeah once again: please steer this thread back to being relevant about the topic. i know i'm not doing it any good bickering with&about other users buut i'm gonna grab my black parade cd and give in a spin. all love

And I think I've been nuanced on most things. Im not expressing my views with the use of a metaphorical sledgehammer so, I guess that's nuance right?

agree to disagree, but i'm not an authority on anything just my reaction. i personally don't find anyone in this thread particularly nuanced cept for maybe one post here and there, you're certainly capable of nuance but i find you're generally very direct.

Yeah, depending on what the topic is. Some of my opinions I'm very direct about. But others such as gay/trans, deportation, abortion, war etc I'm pretty conversational about and will accept other viewpoints

BAT, you claim you’re not psychoanalyzing, but calling me a hypocrite based on assumptions about my intent is, ironically, exactly that. If you’re not interested in productive conversation, why are you still here arguing?

You keep insisting Mantis isn’t nuanced but haven’t provided a single example to back that claim. Nuance doesn’t mean using complex language—it means engaging thoughtfully and considering multiple perspectives, which Mantis has consistently done. If that doesn’t align with your definition of 'nuance,' that’s more reflective of your own mindset than anything else.

If sarcasm and feigned ignorance are your tools of choice, fine—but don’t expect others to take your points seriously when you’re not presenting them seriously. That’s a middle-school tactic at best.

Finally, the 'reading comprehension' jab is just deflection. If you think my language is incorrect, point out specific examples. Vague accusations and generic insults aren’t a substitute for meaningful dialogue.

still going. damn

bump

is there any thread like a sput thread

The Trump win seems to have enabled these weirdos.

Listening to Black Parade now.....Bob's drumming on here is phenomenal. Just solid all around. He was great live too.

admitting to reading the daily wire unironically is so fucking funny man

can i touch ur boobs

"Go listen to Benny talk about his wife's chronically dry pussy." [2]

I understand there have been multiple people pleading for this thread to be locked, but after that above comment I desperately need this entire article to get nuked or thrown into the sun