aww

i support them :]

So?

Masdival is no surprise tbh

didnt actually realise it was noteworthy to be gay any more, or maybe i'm underestimating how many homophobes there still are (actually oh yes some of the major organised religions oh well)

"I see all those old dudes out there just banging their heads to our records," Reinert said, wearing an imposing goatee and extra-large Miami Dolphins jersey. "And I have to think — 'That stuff you're banging your head to? That is some gay, gay metal, man.'"

LOL

unfunny comment

sweet

didnt actually realise it was noteworthy to be gay any more, or maybe i'm underestimating how many homophobes there still are (actually oh yes some of the major organised religions oh well)

Thought this was a lame joke at first. Glad to see it's for real. Doesn't change my opinion of the band a bit, but they get big respect points.

"I see all those old dudes out there just banging their heads to our records," Reinert said, wearing an imposing goatee and extra-large Miami Dolphins jersey. "And I have to think — 'That stuff you're banging your head to? That is some gay, gay metal, man.'"

Quote of the year.

how many points?

let's be honest this isn't even news

Masdival states that he has been privately since 91, and frequented gay bars while on tour. Surprised this is just now "public" news. Good for them though I guess.

Lol that quote is awesome. Massive respect to them both.

"I could name exactly two out metal musicians before today--Halford and Gaahl. Its community is as homophobic and exclusionary as they come. This is a big deal."

oh well, maybe so then, i guess it's just something i just dont really make a mental note of either way

I think it's newsworthy for the the fact that metal doesn't really have too many gay members within its ranks, let alone any metal legends.

I think it's newsworthy for the the fact that metal doesn't really have too many gay members within its ranks, let alone any metal legends.

that article was fucking fantastic, I love these dudes (no homo) m/

Forgot he was gay tbh. Doesn't much matter to me, I'll probably forget these dudes are gay too lol.

Love them even more now

Ideally that's how most people will treat this, RadioSuicide, but for now it's important.

lol'd so hard at "gay, gay metal man."

m//////

Don't love em any more or less but this is pretty interesting I suppose.

"I could name exactly two out metal musicians before today--Halford and Gaahl. Its community is as homophobic and exclusionary as they come. This is a big deal."

agreed. this shouldn't even have to be an issue/news but in the context of metal music and more specifically, death metal, this is important. these guys have some devoted fans and hopefully this can be a positive lesson to shake intolerant fans out of their idiocy.

It's not going to affect how I listen to their music of course

It's been obvious, their songs have always felt a bit gay tbh.

Major props to them, may actually respect them even more now.

Still doesn't change my opinion on Kindly Bent...

This shouldn't be downplayed. As someone's who's queer, it's affirming and inspiring to know that two of the musicians I admire most are too, especially within a community that strongly ridicules, or conversely represses, queerness.

And people who say they "didn't actually realise it was noteworthy to be gay any more" are disingenuous liberals. Of course it's noteworthy. That's why coming out is still a thing and that's why people are still abused for their sexuality on a regular basis. It's as stupid as people who say we live in a post-racial society.

In my opinion, this shouldn't even be an announcement. To me, being gay is just as normal as being straight.

^ you sound straight

I am. Haha.

pretty cool :3

still hate their music tho

hate

why tho

"How is that quote awesome? How does Reinart know that the old dude banging his head isn't gay? And
wtf does 'gay, gay metal' even mean? I didn't know that was a genre or that metal could have a
sexuality."

I think you missed the humor aspect

Must we know what every musician/actors sexual preferences are?

why tho

"This shouldn't be downplayed. As someone's who's queer, it's affirming and inspiring to know that two
of the musicians I admire most are too, especially within a community that strongly ridicules, or
conversely represses, queerness."

Why is it inspiring though ? People with no prejudices already know that sexuality has nothing at all
to do with talent.

cool but really who cares

"Must we know what every musician/actors sexual preferences are?" I hate the word "preference", it implies gender sexuality to be so mild. It's an orientation. And it's good to know because it furthers the cause and betters society.

"I would like to see every gay doctor come out, every gay lawyer, every gay architect come out, stand up and let that world know. That would do more to end prejudice overnight than anybody would imagine. I urge them to do that, urge them to come out. Only that way will we start to achieve our rights." --Harvey Milk

"Must we know what every musician/actors sexual preferences are?"

Exactly!

in a world full of straight role-models, people being held up as shining examples of model relationships and marriages, there are very few inspirational figures for LGBTQ individuals in the world as a whole, let alone in the very shitty metal community.

for you to say "man, i don't know why this is an announcement" is ignorant. of fucking course it is an announcement. no matter how often you say that being gay is just a normal as being straight, for someone to publicly acknowledge that they are homosexual is a decision that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

if you were to come out as homosexual and it became public knowledge, literally every single other person in society would alter their perception of you. it is definitely more accepted, but not seen as normal to the point that being openly gay does not alter your position in the gestalt. the reason people stay in the closet is so that they can live comfortable lives without people seeing them only as "that gay dude" or "that bi girl." there are judgments that you, even if you are accepting of LGBTQ individuals, will level upon anybody who you know who falls into that group. for many individuals, they will begin to perceive you with a narrowed kind of tunnel vision, which becomes even worse if you even presume to try to educate the people in your life about your identity or sexuality.

and mena: it's not about their opinions of the work of art. the merit of their body of work stands on whatever it stands on, objectively.

if the news doesn't affect you, then good for you! it shouldn't warrant any comment on your part. if it speaks to somebody out there, helps them feel more okay in their own skin and more okay with their identity, who are you to judge them? if they see someone whom they identify strongly with living a successful life in a community that they might not feel welcome in, i don't see how that isn't inspiring.

tl;dr they're gay, it doesn't really matter from a musical standpoint, it might not be newsworthy, but if it isn't relevant to you then you aren't required to care about it.

Good for them!

"Why is it inspiring ? Intelligent people with no prejudices already know that sexuality has fuck all to do with talent. It's bizarre to let your opinion of a work of art be influenced by whether the creator fucks men women or vegetables."

Intelligent people with no prejudices is a fallacy. Who the fuck doesn't have prejudices! We've all been brought up in a society with racism, sexism, homophobia etc. and that rubs off on you no matter how intelligent you are. Hell, even queer can be pretty homophobic -- you know, internal homophobia.

And it doesn't change my opinion of the art, or the people for that matter. It is just hopefully a step towards making the metal community more inclusive -- which it undoubtedly needs to be.

Nice observation Solbrave. I understand where you're coming from. I did in fact start my statement of with "in my opinion" so it wouldn't appear as if I was judging anyone, which I wasn't.

menawati batting .000 itt

"Must we know what every musician/actors sexual preferences are?" I hate the word "preference", it implies gender sexuality to be so mild. It's an orientation. And it's good to know because it furthers the cause and betters society.


-That's just like your opinion. man

@Solbrave Well said!

It's pretty cool to hear about this but it aint the most important thing in the world. They came out, good for them and the LGBT community. I really don't feel any different about these guys. I know of them as extremely talented musicians. Who cares about their sexuality? They're human beings and that is all that matters

Greyvy you keep following me around do you just wanna lick my asshole secretly or what

"Who cares about their sexuality? They're human beings and that is all that matters"

I don't believe it should affect anything but it is interesting because being gay is still seen in society as a weird thing to some extent, I mean most people will tell you it's alright and they support you and what not but most of the time they're really not as comfortable as they claim, most musicians would usually just rather not associate themselves with any of this stuff

@emester: I'm glad that it is very easy for you to accept that they are gay without that changing how
you feel about them. For other people, however, they might see them as role models. When you live in a
minority group, especially one that has been discriminated against, both historically and in today's
society, having prominent people to identify with can be a very good thing. Nobody is saying you
should care about it. Not all news that is disseminated is meant to be interesting to every single
person. If you're not interested by it, you don't have to read the article, or comment on it.

Edit: Also what Gwyn just said.

"They're human beings and that is all that matters"

Well said. I agree.

gwyn's comments are always so insightful and necessary and i never regret reading them!

"We've all been brought up in a society with racism, sexism, homophobia etc. and that rubs off on you no matter how intelligent you are."

This is similair to that shit about everyone being inherently racist without them even knowing it. Of course people build prejudices but it's how you handle them and use plain logic and common sense to override them that matters. I'll bow out as I seem to be winding some gay people up even though I'm inherently on their side.

It's very good that people can be accepting of them and not see the news as a big deal to them, but clearly if Masvidal and Reinert kept it pretty private for so long, it was a significant decision for them.

They might be human beings just as much as everyone who isn't gay, but it's always good to keep in mind that there are people who wouldn't see them as that.

I mean most of ya'll say who cares and shit because this is the internet but in terms of society it really does matter, because for better or worse sexuality is still seen as an important thing and a gay person being put on some type of hefty position while being homo is still kind of a big deal, the metal community in particular is flooded with racists, homophobes and other shit so a person well associated with the scene would normally consider coming out the last thing they would ever want to do, which is why it's important because it might lead to more people being open about it rather than being forced to remain silent for fear of being mistreated or judged.

"It's pretty cool to hear about this but it aint the most important thing in the world. They came out, good for them and the LGBT community. I really don't feel any different about these guys. I know of them as extremely talented musicians. Who cares about their sexuality? They're human beings and that is all that matters"

It sounds like you (and others itt) are basing the level of importance somewhat on the fact that it isn't important to YOU specifically. Coming out is still a huge deal for almost everyone who does it, these are two hugely respected people making a big step to push for wider acceptance in a community that's not very accepting. It is a really big deal IMO, and an awesome thing for them to do.

damn gwyn that's deep!

Meh, who cares? The real tragedy is the last album.

"gwyn's comments are always so insightful and necessary and i never regret reading them!"

who are you

deleted

@menawati you're not upsetting me, I'm just trying to make people understand where I come wrong. And I completely agree it's how you handle and override the prejudices that matter -- the problem is that some people blindly say that they have no prejudices in the first place.

I understand that too. Hopefully one day things will equal out an there will be an equal amount of role models for every type of person in the world.

I actually have a GSA meeting in like 5 minutes tbh. It's important news, but it shouldn't define the band. They will always be Cynic to me. No more no less

this album is like that fucker you find in high school who's incredibly tough but turns out to be extremely smart. you know those ones, who look like they want to kill you at first but eventually you realize they're actually pretty friendly and have some troubles but once you get together he wants to be your friend but eventually you realize he does everything better than you do and you're not sure if you wanna be his friend anymore because he makes you feel like less of a man (and human being) and when trying to get away from him without realizing to not be rude since he hasn't done anything wrong he ends up saving your life and you realize how stupid you are for not being friendlier with him before and you decide you want him in your life and you're grateful for it. then he hugs you, breaks a part of you by accident but you forgive him and remain a friend for the rest of your life with him occassionally beating the shit out of you by accident since he couldn't control it, but you actually like it later on cause it makes you tougher. this album is that plus some breakdowns and a really pissed off donald duck.

That's one of gwyns soundoffs right?

@emester

cool bro, your being in a gay-straight alliance is very important knowledge. you attend some meetings to pay lip service to your acceptance of gay people. does that make you feel good dude? you feel better about that? good for you! just like this news article doesn't interest you, nobody else in this thread gives a shit what you do with your life.

for gay metal fans, perhaps seeing masvidal and reinert being open about their orientation helps them. nobody's saying it defines a band. the fact that you think that's why people care about this news story shows me that the number of times you put your name on the sign-in sheet at your GSA meetings hasn't really helped you understand the people you seek to "ally" yourself with.

Oh yeah... Totally greyvy....

Srsly tho, musical skill... Musical skill... Musical skill... Talent and musical skill... Is all that really matters when an album is comprised of real people playing instruments.

this is really claustrophobicrlike being trapped in a very small room that you have no idea how to get out of, thats pretty scary in itself but then you start hearing random noises from outside it and you have no idea what it is it just seems like random shit being hit randomly but after a while they start getting you all crazy and you swear the walls are gonna eat you or some shit if you don't look out for urself for even a sec

and of course this would devolve into shitposting

i'm out, peace

A lot of these comments are teeth-grinding stuff. Thank goodness it's interjected by Solbrave's (and others, hopefully including myself) sensible words.

I am surprised by how shitty people are being about this.

Of course it is noteworthy, as noteworthy as any other news article people post on here. Avoiding discussion of sexuality because it "doesn't matter" is just about as bad as discriminating based on it. Maybe worse depending on the context.

None of us are as open-minded and un-prejudiced as we would like to think. The more exposure we have to this kind of thing, the better. Don't fucking write this off.

The fact that people feel the need to announce that this doesn't affect their opinion of the band just proves that this kind of thing IS a big deal.

bullshit it doesnt matter

Of course it is noteworthy, as noteworthy as any other news article people post on here. Avoiding discussion of sexuality because it "doesn't matter" is just about as bad as discriminating based on it. Maybe worse depending on the context.

That don't mean shit to me
Fuck your sexuality, nigga

If people didn't care, then this wouldn't be noteworthy.

But because people care so much about if he's straight or gay, this is news.

I mean, honestly, it's a rare occurrence to see a metal musician come out, but we shouldn't look at Cynic any differently just because their members came out.

this is a music site. its perfectly understandable why people wouldnt want to discuss or even care about a certain musician's sexuality since it has no effect on the music they make

this is a music site. its perfectly understandable why people wouldnt want to discuss or even care about a certain musician's sexuality since it has no effect on the music they make

If they don't want to discuss it and care so little, why do they put the effort in to post about it?

Bullshit that their sexuality doesn't affect their music. Of course it does. You would be interested in knowing where a band is from, right? That matters in music? How about whether there's a backstory to the music, like if it's based on a true story or a fucking novel or something? These things are all relevant. The only reason someone would want to avoid this is because they are uncomfortable with it. Otherwise, there would be no reason to post.

I am not gay, nor an expert on anything, but I know enough about social psychology to understand that some of you are super full of shit, perhaps without realizing it.

au revoir

It doesn't mean that they actually have something against gays, but comments along the lines of "who cares," "why is this news?" "why do we have to know everyone's sexuality?" carry an implication that the subject of the story should've just stayed in the closet. It's not necessarily intentional--in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't give a shit--but that's the meaning that gets taken away from it.

comments along the lines of "who cares," "why is this news?" "why do we have to know everyone's sexuality?" carry an implication that the subject of the story should've just stayed in the closet.

It doesn't mean that they actually have something against gays, but comments along the lines of "who cares," "why is this news?" "why do we have to know everyone's sexuality?" carry an implication that the subject of the story should've just stayed in the closet. It's not necessarily intentional--in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't give a shit--but that's the meaning that gets taken away from it.

yeah it's almost as though the context is different entirely WEIRD

Well you said it yourself, that's if it's a band they DON'T LIKE. So if this is no different, are people saying it because they don't like Cynic? Or maybe another reason?

Saying "who cares" is always far more negative than actually staying silent and not caring.

"in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't give a shit"

agreed, and I think I thought like this for a long time and other people are also thinking that because they are accepting of gays, that everyone is accepting of gays. a lot of the world (and specifically metal and death metal communities) still has ancient and retarded prejudices and this is a big deal - not for the person reading this who is accepting but for all the people who aren't. the fact that this thread is blowing up is proof in itself that this is still a sensitive, unresolved and prevalent social issue.

One last comment: if you don't care, you should. Care for the gay metal kid who suddenly feels a little less isolated; care for the society that is gradually overriding it's prejudices; and care for Paul and Sean for whom it was obviously not that easy to come out.

^ This

that wasnt the best example i mean even if its with a band they like, if they dont think something is news worthy theyll say it. it has nothing to do with how they feel about the band members themselves.

this has nothing to do with the music so yea i dont really care. its an interesting fact but i dont think its news worthy. sue me

"in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't give a shit"

Exactly. The reason it's considered important and why it SHOULD be important is because this encourages people to more open about it like I already mentioned, sexuality shouldn't be treated like a massive deal but it is, it should matter because if more people can be open about then it eventually it /truly/ won't matter because homosexuality will be completely normal at that point, which is what many people want and we should get to. We're obviously not there yet though.

a legal suit is en route to your location sir

this has nothing to do with the music so yea i dont really care. its an interesting fact but i dont think its news worthy. sue me

Guys what the actual fuck. Thread could simply be all about glorifying the OBVIOUS courage they took in doing this and how they want to serve as a motivation to people who lived/live and situation they found themselves over the last couple of decades +. IT IS news, fuck whoever says otherwise. Stop trying to be edgy, you're just being obnoxious assholes.

Besides nobody needs to be so butthurt over people devaluing this as news, or wtv. 2 much butthurt itt as well.

I'm out

tbh the flack gays get from the metal community pales in significance against the evil prejudiced intolerant shit certain organised religions have instigated over the centuries, and they are still at it.
Damn i wasnt going to post again was i.

If you've read through this thread and still don't see why it's newsworthy than you're pretty hopeless.

^ you sound straight

"tbh the flack gays get from the metal community pales in significance against the evil prejudiced intolerant shit certain organised religions have instigated over the centuries, and they are still at it."

oh true but














this is a music website

It's a huge deal because society has not progressed to the point where it isn't a huge deal, and making this a huge deal is a baby step toward that goal.

tbh the flack gays get from the metal community pales in significance against the evil prejudiced intolerant shit certain organised religions have instigated over the centuries, and they are still at it.
Damn i wasnt going to post again was i.

When I say "who cares" I dont mean it negative nigs. Sheesh.
I mean people shouldn't be afraid to be who they are. And it really shouldn't be a big deal what somebodies sexual preference is.

deleted

Proof that metal is for everyone.

"tbh the flack gays get from the metal community pales in significance against the evil prejudiced intolerant shit certain organised religions have instigated over the centuries, and they are still at it."

Totally irrelevant, and your argument doesn't even work. The US Military has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, but if I were to murder my neighbor tomorrow I'd still be an asshole.

""I mean people shouldn't be afraid to be who they are. And it really shouldn't be a big deal what somebodies sexual preference is. "

We already explained this; It shouldn't matter, but it does, because society isn't open about this yet. The idea is to make it not matter because homosexuality should be like being straight, the only way to make society accept something is to push forward with it.

Comparing the armed forces to religions that preach hatred based on sexuality is idiotic. It's not an argument about body count, it's about principles.

"i mean good for them, but who the fuck cares? "

:/

good for them. keep on truckin with the tunes.

"Comparing the armed forces to religions that preach hatred based on sexuality is idiotic. It's not an argument about body count, it's about principles."

The point of the comment stands, it doesn't matter if the treatment of gays is worse in some other places than the metal community, the point is that shouldn't be bad anywhere, period. Even if just getting the metal community to not care eventually isn't as big as gettign the church to not care, it is still a step forward.

Menawati, you're missing my point. You're right, it is about principles.

You were saying that the intolerance of the metal scene is nothing compared to the intolerance of
organized religion. That's how I interpreted your post.

What I was trying to say is that your statement is not only completely irrelevant, but offensive. Just
because one group of people is more intolerant than the other, doesn't mean the less intolerant group
should be given a free pass. We need to speak out against all injustice.

The military and murder was an example to prove my point. It seems to have gone over your head.

ffs

just ctrl+f words like "religion", "homophobic", etc

sputnikreddit.com

Gwyn gets it.

Krieg I didnt say it was nothing or that they should get a free pass at all I was just talking about the amount of people it affects. Yes it's important in the metal scene but that's 40 years affecting a set of fans vs centuries of preaching hatred which embeds itself in the very fabric of society.
But yeh prob off topic but I though this thread had evolved into general stuff about prejudice anyway..

deleted

But the US military don't murder. And if you mean kill, they do so necessarily and morally. Religion on the other hand is a malignant force in the world that's incomparable to the military. I get your point, but it really isn't the best of examples.

let's not get too far off topic. this could actually be a really important news story.

maybe it will encourage others to come out too i suppose which can't be anything but positive

This is actually pretty monumental for me. I just wrote Reinert a rather difficult email thanking
him. As someone who lives music and has spent a decade in the closet (particularly to my very
traditional family), hearing someone I've held as a hero for just as long speak openly about this is,
as Stephen28 hinted at, life-affirming.

Menawati, you don't get it. It doesn't matter that organized religion has caused more damage, and for a much longer time. Homophobia in the metal scene is still a problem.

Steven, I said "was responsible for the deaths of innocent people". This is an indisputable fact, but it's irrelevant to the news topic. It was just an example off the top of my head.

The example works for the point I was trying to make.

dude I don't think he's arguing with you anymore

Also..."And if you mean kill, they do so necessarily and morally."

Tell that to their victims in Vietnam and Iraq, just to give two examples.

Have you ever read a history book?

Pedro70512 thank you for sharing. If that can't silence the "who cares?!" crowd I don't kniw what can.

evilford, I was responding to his last comment directed towards me.

The US military has a lot of blood on its hand -- some of which, though not most, was unlawful. That is the nature of war, but those fighting it are not murderers or immoral.

Alright, so I don't understand why you had a problem with my comment.

Shit thread.

^ shit post.

'"But the US military don't murder. And if you mean kill, they do so necessarily and morally. Religion on the other hand is a malignant force in the world that's incomparable to the military."

lol holy fuck shut the fuck up!

that was mean, solbrave

Yeah Pots!!!!!

Thread has gone to shit

that was literally one of the dumbest posts ive read on this site

Because you were implying that the type of violence the military engages in is the same as murder -- which is wrong, and doesn't compare to the other guys example in which homophobia in the metal community is the same homophobia found in religion. (not defendig the other guy, I thought your point was right, just with a very questionable example.)

"But the US military don't murder. And if you mean kill, they do so necessarily and morally."

yeah that's perhaps one of the most ignorant things I've ever read

Good for them.

Dude, I never said the military commits murder. Stop twisting my words.

I said the military has been responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths. That is an indisputable fact.

I'll leave it up to you whether or not that's on the same level as me murdering my neighbor.

There was nothing "questionable" about my example.

steven28's statement just made 40 of my brain cells commit suicide

Gotta love hyper proud and jaded american citizens like Steven. US Military has killed in cold blood (read: MURDERED) countless times in the past. They also have invaded countries to the disapproval of their own people as well as for nothing but economic gain and status and have also witheld from invading where it benefits them. you paint the US Military white and have the gall to call organized a purely negative force? blow it out your ass. Both have done just as much good as bad. Religion can be an extremely positive force for people. and this is coming from someone who is non-religious.

In general terms a legal military force carries out the commands of politicians who were elected by the people (in a democracy anyway) so it could be argued that the politicians are murderers, or even the people who voted for them in an indirect way.
But in either case it's far removed from fundamentally preaching hatred over centuries which several organised religions have indulged in and still do. (note use of word organised).

It's not ignorant or dumb. The anti-war movement, however, has become so. Vietnam was disgusting, imperialist and in part murder. But modern interventions haven't been so. (And, yes, I'm pro-Iraq and so forth).

aww cool

Menawati just doesn't get it.

Look guys, homophobia is bad.

This is news.

I'm happy for the guys in Cynic.

Woah, I'm English not American!

Steven, how old are you?

Paul and Sean are such attention whores.

It genuinely hurts my heart to hear someone saying the anti-war movement has become "ignorant and dumb".

it is ignorant and you have been going back on your own words which is dumb.

Politics and Sputnik mix together even worse than dog shit and bagels

And no one has ever done anything good because of religion.

Anyway, I kid of want to end this because it's so damn irrelevant.

Coward.

everything you say is irrelevant

I'm 18.. And the anti-war movement has econe ignorant and dumb. "Masochism presented to you bu sadists," as Hitch said.

*become

oops double post

"And no one has ever done anything good because of religion."

I am as non-religious as anyone but this is just plain wrong. yeah religion does bad things but like pots said it can be a very positive force in peoples' lives. just because some assholes abuse religion doesn't mean everyone does. I've known plenty of hyper religious people with whom I don't share religious viewpoints (obviously) but are genuinely amazing people.

No doubt they are amazing people. But no more amazing because of their religion. Any good deeds they do are because of their own benevolence and not "faith"..

Ah.

So Steven, the wise 18-year-old definitely has it all figured out.

evilford, in Steven's defense, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Lol

Nope

Wasn't being sarcastic. I'm loling

"evilford, in Steven's defense, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic."

the scary thing is, I'm pretty sure he wasn't. or we're just being trolled.

"just because some assholes abuse religion doesn't mean everyone does"

absolutely true man, but when those assholes are the ones writing the 'guidebook', so to speak, it results in some pretty nasty intolerant stuff which permeates society in very disturbing ways

I don't have it all figured out. Which is why I like debating these things with a willingness to changing my mid. i don't, however, imply someone's opinion is worthless because of their age or the simple fact they disagree with me.

I don't think anyone's surprised about Paul itt

Steven, I didn't imply that your opinion is worthless.

You're really good at adding words to other peoples' comments.

Don't care just want more death metal Cynic with robots please.

"absolutely true man, but when those assholes are the ones writing the 'guidebook', so to speak, it results in some pretty nasty intolerant stuff which permeates society in very disturbing ways"

it definitely has been used as a vehicle for hate, no doubt about that. but I don't believe that everyone who has even been in a position of power in the religious community has used it for that purpose. and to say that organized religion has never done anyone any good is just....I don't even know, there is no adjective that can sufficiently describe how wrong that statement is.

Saying "the wise 18 year old definitely has it all figured out" is at the very least dismissive.

And even if I did mistakenly interpret something one of you guys said, it's not quite as bad as calling me "ignorant" or "dumb" or something of the sort. These are my views, and you prompted me for them.

But, as I said, this is fucking irrelevant. Can we go back to the fact that this a pretty inspiring news story for us queer metal fans.

eh i never said that at all ford

deleted

solbrave has spoken!

Never said they haven't done anything good. They have set up (not the catholics) respectable charities that do good deeds. But if they do it because of religion then it isn't moral, because t's in the service of a celestial dictator. If they do it because of their humanity, however, then it is moral because they are doing it for the rightness of the action itself.

For God's sake (pun intended) read one of the dozens of respectable antitheism books in the last decade.

There were a lot of morons well before halfway

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there have been at least 50ish comments about people making their case as to why it is newsworthy w/e and if you disagree with that then that's good and all but you're still an idiot

the entire thread is asshurt if you really can't read, as I have already conjectured

good! nobody cares about yours either

+ that wasn't even an opinion, it's fact. you are a complete idiot and you should remember that for the rest of your life

"eh i never said that at all ford"

I know man I was just addressing a couple different things in one post and rambling at the same time.

Steven, I'm honestly not trying to belittle you. But I think you lack some understanding on the topics you're talking about. maybe you've never seen that stuff from a different point of view and maybe what you're saying is the case in your experience but blanket statements like that are going to get shot down by someone. seeing what I've seen in my life, I can't get behind any of some of the things you said.

Alright everyone calm down it's just the internet

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Steven, my point regarding your age is that you have a lot to learn.

"Never said they haven't done anything good. They have set up (not the catholics) respectable
charities that do good deeds. But if they do it because of religion then it isn't moral, because t's
in the service of a celestial dictator. If they do it because of their humanity, however, then it is
moral because they are doing it for the rightness of the action itself."

Your closed-mindedness is showing. I don't think you understand the essence of Christianity. Check
out The Kingdom of God Is Within You by Leo Tolstoy. It should clear things up for you.

Read it for free here: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/leo-tolstoy-the-kingdom-of-god-is-
within-you

Just for the record, I'm an atheist.

"+ that wasn't even an opinion, it's fact. you are a complete idiot and you should remember that for the rest of your life"


lmao

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That's understandable, evilford. Most people I know actually share your views roughly, so most views I'm exposed to are the opposite. But I will admit a tendency to be contrarian at least.

And, not to get too defence, but I know quite a bit on theology and antitheism (Catholic heritage too), and my views on the military and intervention took years of research to form.

"Years of research"

I'm sure it was extensive. Have you read The Kingdom of God Is Within You? Have you heard of it? It's a pretty well known book.

big news

@kriegdem krieg The essence of christianity is undoubtedly faith of the monotheistic an messianic variety. I'll research that book but your tone makes me suspect you spend too much time with liberals.

we have officially derailed

I don't mean years of intesive academic study, just an interested and fairly dedicated read around the subject. And, of course, I continue to take an interest and maybe one day my iews will shift.

Lol ford we derailed a long time ago.

This has taken away an hour of my life. I'm calling it quits for now.

Closing statement, read the book Steven. Christianity has nothing to do with a messiah, and it has nothing to do with church. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with a god.

Dude, learn to read

Okay, I agree this has taken up too much time.

And in closing: if that is your argument, then it isn't a religion.

I think it's time to move on from the religion/military convo that was pointless to begin with.

i dont get why its cool to be prejudiced towards religion but not towards homosexuality.

i want to feel prejudiced (not actively discriminate) against anyone i want or any group of people and i dont care if its irrational.

^^^^ me neither but whatever makes you happy i guess

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Okay, you forced me to make one last comment! Because religion tends itself towards mass prejudice, while queerness is benign. Queerness has done nothing to hurt, ad has arguably improved society. Religion has done a great deal of harm, and hasn't progressed society in centuries.

Now I'm really shutting up. Last comment.

right so will this result in more gay metal musicians coming out of the closet do you think ?

I hope so.

so what if it is prejudice? religion in this day and age doesnt do much harm and doesnt have nearly the power it did hundreds of years ago. stifling and attacking people just because they dont agree with something is fcking ridiculous - says me on an elitist music review site

at least the mitch lucker thread was funny this is just tragic

there are people who dont like me and are prejudice towards me for different reasons (mainly drug use) and ive never tried to force them to like me or not be prejudiced lol

political correctness is totally fucked man, if everyone is forced to not be prejudiced it will cause much bigger problems

would the metal community be the most prejudiced in general when it comes to homosexuality ?

Again, you force me to comment! Prejudice is "Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience". Having a negative opinion towards you for your heavy drug use would not be prejudice.

Well, when disagreeing equates to agreeing with a side that has promoted discrimination and violence against the other side then...

Yes, it would be. It attempts to be hypermasculine, and with that comes strong homophobia.

"It attempts to be hypermasculine"

glam/hair metal wasnt

why steven? my drug use never affects the people who dont like me because of it, they assume and stereotype. believe me its irrational

It's awesome that they came out, but it doesn't change my opinion of their last album. Ugh.

But were glam and hair metal as homophobic?

well i would guess not, it just doesnt strike me as hypermasculine at all

i mean i literally cant force someone to like me, and if i could theyd absolutely resent me. i think this is kinda whats happening with the whole religion/homosexuality thing because it was never this "big of an issue" (i know it always has been but not so publicized) before like 5 years ago lol

People choose to be part of a religion, people do not choose their sexual preference. I can make sweeping judgements on all members of a certain religion if I find their practices to be abhorrent because every member has chosen to take part in it.

Some of the ignorance itt is approaching near-impossible levels.

i want the freedom to feel prejudiced against whomever i want to for any reason and i think everyone *should*, thats what it boils down to lol

Thought so. Good for em

yeh mobo but there are a lot of religious people who reject the homophobic aspects which are 'written in' by certain interpreters of that faith who hold high positions in it's organisational structure

Yeah menawati, that should definitely be taken into consideration - it's never completely black and white like that. I'm not
talking specifically about gay intolerance in religion btw, I'm just trying to demonstrate why making judgments based on
religion vs based on sexual preference are very different things.

Good for them

well i mean... most really religious people dont hop from religion to religion, it could be argued that they dont have a choice - like they could join another but it wouldnt feel true and honest, like a gay man in the closet for most of his life

Also following a religious doctrine isnt a choice for many millions in certain parts of the world, under some regimes not demonstrating belief can result in being cast out or even being murdered. Could also mention religious indoctrination in the free world too being fed to very impressionable young people.

yeah, we got it p good in developed countries, its sad that its coming to the abolishment of religious freedom, itll soon just be another one of those "freedoms" like privacy - lol nsa

"its sad that its coming to the abolishment of religious freedom"

well, dunno about where you live but there are huge religious freedoms in the UK, to the extent that they get special dispensations that contradict domestic and european law in some cases

haha i meant more of a "social" abolishment, like how uneducated people argue against religion because they think its oppressing homosexuality when i know tons of religious people who support gay rights, AND i know gay christians so there. i live in ny usa

Wonderful news. Also, those of you making awful jokes about these guys' album titles must be amazing people

better than abortion jokes

"uneducated people argue against religion because they think its oppressing homosexuality"

a vast, vast majority of bias, bigotry, and hate towards gay people is due to religion. fact

Right ok i see what you are trying to say penis, well yes there's a large range of views ranging from liberal to extremist both inside and outside of religion. Any comments i made on here were directed at organised religions preaching intolerance about sexuality.

Wow, I love how this site turns into a retarded tabloid.

sure but youre fighting intolerance with... intolerance lol

anyway i just get annoyed with the whole religion/homosexuality debate and its inevitable on every single thing related to homosexuality when this really shouldnt even be news

its fine focus still rules!

Good for them... if this gives just one young metal fan the strength to come out then it was worth it imo

As a young man on the fence sexually as in ill lean either way but unsure in my own mind if one gender is more right for me than another , made a profile to say this is heart warming thats all ill say theres enough blah blah religous this intolerence that being spat around as is...assholes opinion etc everyone got one

yeah its brave

wow amazing. i always new paul was too cute to be straight

"Stimulating is how you make your choice
So you preach about how I'm supposed to be
Yet you don't you know your own sexuality"

Knew about Masvidal but not Reinert, good for them. Brave.

And then there were rainbows...

So that confirms that "The Philosopher" is for Masvidal, after all...

sweet

Probably has been said since this thread is really long, but article should have been titled cynic is gay

Just a note to all the budding comedians on this site: any sexual innuendo or general shitposting will be met with full bans to last until the release of the next Cynic album. So by all means, keep it up

i wish you just did that for every news story Dev, not just the taboo ones

or just in general really

I do, I'm just advertising a little disclaimer this time around given the nature of this article

Much appreciated.

wow this thread is shit

thank you based Deviant

They need to do another Focus already

Good for them!

wow this thread is shit

Don't even care about their sexuality. If they make good music, than why does it matter?

Ya. We don't need any more humans alive hard

I had a hunch about Paul.

Good for them.

pretty much disappointed in a lot of the comments itt. this is a big deal.

Good for them to come out. That is a big deal for gay people who listen to metal.

Doesn't change my opinion of their music, which is exactly how it should be. I saw them live when they toured with The Devin Townsend Project and Between The Buried And Me and I remember really disliking their music.

I also remember that the vocalist "wanted to take the time to give a shout out to all the stars out there" and took 6 minute intervals between each song to take the time to thank something that was the most irrelevant thing he could think of. He wasn't even looking at the crowd but the far walls and ceiling. This guy must've been on some drugs or something. Worse live band I've ever seen. I didn't care for the music even before his intermissions.

why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.
why is sexuality even a thing. get rid of it.

Religion is dumb.

Metal community needs work on acceptance.

Coming out takes courage.

Good for them.

Good for them to come out. That is a big deal for gay people who listen to metal.

Doesn't change my opinion of their music, which is exactly how it should be. I saw them live when they toured with The Devin Townsend Project and Between The Buried And Me and I remember really disliking their music.

I also remember that the vocalist "wanted to take the time to give a shout out to all the stars out there" and took 6 minute intervals between each song to take the time to thank something that was the most irrelevant thing he could think of. He wasn't even looking at the crowd but the far walls and ceiling. This guy must've been on some drugs or something. Worse live band I've ever seen. I didn't care for the music even before his intermissions.

That said you should really listen to Focus if you like BtBaM and bands of that nature.

That line isn't gay at all in the context of the rest of the song, though.

This is great, I'm glad these guys did this. Having more visibly gay metal musicians (and just gay musicians in general) is good for the LGBT community and for equal rights.

still waiting for a metal artist to come out black

2/5 of Suffocation's best line-up, man.

nah i wasn't being sarcastic or anything dude

no time to read this gad damn fred

nah i wasn't being sarcastic or anything dude

ya true enough. i came up with these

Sepultura
Evile
KsE
God Forbid
Embodyment
oceano
Animals as Leaders

Good on 'em

Don't forget Body Count, guys. Ice T is also thrash singer, remember.

yeah and public enemy

turn it up



BRING THE NOOISE!!!!

you're forgetting emmure

frankie is a real nigga

prog tech gay death metal


m/

It's a pretty reasonable thing to be unaware of. Metal is the whitest genre this side of polka.


explain black metal????

what was the name of that one-black-man depressive black metal band with a moon on the cover that looked like a pac-man i need to know

also woohoo for cynic, it really takes courage to come out, wish them well, this is important news, lol @ the guys saying "i don't care"/"it doesn't matter"/"homophobia is dead" or w/e

Darkspace?

lol it was heretoir i think

I do believe Chuck Schuldiner wrote some lyrics about Paul Masvidal being gay. Not surprising, but I also guess it's cause I listened to that Macklemore song, dawg.

who cares "Kindly Bent To Free Us" sucks and thats all i care about

^.

Sun Ra is metal ?

Just a note to all the budding comedians on this site: any sexual innuendo or general shitposting will be met with full bans to last until the release of the next Cynic album. So by all means, keep it up

Then why even allow the article to go through? You know it will attract comments from the scum of the site.

You could argue that of 90% of any news-based website though. It's still a topical news article; the reaction, while expected (and one that can be easily monitored) is still only secondary

A lot of dumb and ignorant fuckers in this thread.

Congrats, Cynic! It's pathetic that so many metalheads still have such a homophobic mentality.

It'd almost be worth having the 'scum of the site' commenting here if that meant they weren't shitposting on some well-crafted, deep review or tuff-talkin' on a really personal and introspective list.

imho idek internet.

Nice coming out, the world is still way too homophobic.

All religions need to die, so that people learn to rely on their own thoughts and not some stupid lies from a book of fiction (Bible, Koran).

NO GODZ!!! NO MASTERZ!!!

yeah uh speaking as someone who actually experiences homophobia directly society as a whole is miles away from being at a point where queer people are actually accepted

just checking if i got dev'd hard

ok sweet thank you for not being too mean dev i love you ♥︎

As much as this is good news, it still doesn't excuse how their latest album turned out. All in all, major props to these guys

Two great artists and fantastic musicians. I hope they are not bothered by homophobic or religious idiots and continue getting the respect they deserve.

and don't use homophobia as an excuse to bash other peoples religions, if anything religion is a scapegoat used by people who were already ignorant to start

That's why I said homophobic OR religious idiots. I know there are religious people who are not homophobic.

...and their religion is being used to defend their homophobia, unlike the homophobic metal fans who are just assholes and everyone realizes they are. And without said religion, they would have nothing to normalize their hatred. But w/e, just hoping Cynic don't get too much bullshit for being open about who they are.

hey did you guys notice that all the people saying this isnt a big deal and shouldn't matter are straight and pretty much all the openly queer members have been arguing with them and telling them they're wrong and don't understand

interesting!!

give it a rest pal

I never knew they where gay, bit of a shock but still one of my favourite bands!

"the people saying this isnt a big deal and shouldn't matter are straight and pretty much all the openly queer members have been arguing with them and telling them they're wrong and don't understand"

that, and then there's the minority of us trying to have a reasonably coherent conversation >.>

(because to some of us this really does matter.)

"As much as this is good news, it still doesn't excuse how their latest album turned out."

they shared this news because they wanted to, not because they want you to give their latest album a second spin

ITT, the 12 year old army of Sput somewhat unsurprisingly doesn't understand how prejudice works from their middle class, straight, white upbringings