this is pretty atrocious. don't know much about this, but if he 'created a new project' to release this material under could he do it through a kickstarter without nuclear blast interfering?

or pull a prince and release a ton of noise albums until the contract ends.

More record label vs. artist drama. yay

in cases like this the artist is always in the right even if they make power metal

lol even if

I'm seconding the name change thing. I feel like that should be a loophole out of the contract. I don't even like these guys and the situation they are in is so fucked up

A really simple solution to all this would be for him to open up a kickstarter campaign under his own name (completely eliminating all traces of "Wintersun") and ask for donations to build a better studio. I don't know what kind of incentives he could offer though, but a label will never be able to hold any power over one person's name, especially if the funding doesn't directly contribute to a label's perceived loss of money over records sold.

This is just spitballing though, no one can really comment too much without seeing the kind of contract and stipulations that the band signed

^That sounds like a good idea but like you said, what can he really offer in terms of reward. If he offers something Wintersun related, I assume NB would automatically be entitled to the money because the person is essentially paying for a Wintersun record

Was gonna post this earlier but didn't have time.

That really wasn't intentional btw. Sucks for him though, Would love to hear some solid Wintersun since I couldn't get into Time I.

i honestly don't understand why he needs his OWN studio

like, they already paid for a ridiculously high-end computer for him to mix the orchestra on, why not just do that at home, go to a studio to record the live bits and then do the mixing/mastering at home

it isn't going to make THAT much of a difference to the end product and even if he got everything he wanted that perfection he's clearly after is unattainable

if he needed his own studio then time i wouldn't even exist

this guy wrote the book on excuse making

Yeah honestly this guy can go fuck himself at this point. I'll jam the debut and be perfectly fine with it.

this guy wrote the book on excuse making

This is such a shitty situation though

"Yeah honestly this guy can go fuck himself at this point. I'll jam the debut and be perfectly fine with it."

Really? Are you that dumb?

i dont really care about this band anymore. their debut is fun and nostalgic, and its all im interested in listening to. Time I was cluttered and overblown, and im sure everything after will be just as mediocre.

The bloke is in a pretty dire situation, but I think at this point, he is asking WAY too much from his loyal fans. First they have to wait a century for Time I, with very little updates, and then despite being told that Time II will be released next year, it doesn't and only now there are updates. It's not necessarily their fault, really think the fans get the shortest end of the stick here, especially those who actually pay for the pledgefund. I mean, could they possibly squeeze their fans of their money and patience anymore than they already have?

He could just do what Children of Bodom did and dissolve Wintersun and create a new band under another name.

This guy sounds like an absolute nightmare to work with.

Sorry, this guy sounds like a total picky fuck face. I mean, sometimes you have to learn to just say "fine, I'll accept it" and move on instead of trying to reach perfection with your guitar tones. Secondly, how did some of the poorest bands on earth make such incredible music and produce it well? Time to get a life Jari and live in the real world. Don't crowd fund this fuck if he wants to go that route.

God damn, Wiz is on the warpath today!

"3rd party studios have never worked for me"

Tough luck, buddy. Not everyone can have their own fucking studio. Hire one like every other not-particularly-rich band and make do.

Haha fuck you Jari Mäenpää!

And fuck anyone who contributes to the kickstarter.

This made me lol

"I´ve got probably 5 long albums worth of new insanely good material! And there´s no filler material at all!"

EMPTY PROMISES

"They see the crowd funding as a threat to their business and they would rather see Wintersun dead, than me doing a crowd funding."

I WOULD TOO

Okay I'm done now

This guy sounds like an absolute nightmare to work with.

They should just change their name to Wintermoon and release the music. Time I was my favorite album from 2012 and I cannot wait for Time II. Now it seems as if this may never even happen. So sad that this new hip-hop garbage sells millions of records and most people don't even know who Wintersun is. So much shit is just wrong today with this world.

Yeah, fuck this band.

but this sounds like if i were the rep dealing with jari id probably pull a dead.

A little drastic, but it made me snicker.

How did he release the first Time if all this crap was making it impossible for him? This is ridiculous.

Really? Are you that dumb?

Yeah you should go in for brain analysis Hawks you probs have brain damage.

I really should. Brb gonna call and make an appointment.

Or...you could just jam Cradle and rawk out? m/m/m/

Dude should just suck it up and get a job like 90% of other people in not so popular bands do when they're low on money if he keeps blowing all the money he gets on preening every bloody note and making his stuff way too detailed rather than working within a budget like every other band ever does

why isn't his process like my process? *dumb angry face*

They should just change their name to Wintermoon and release the music. Time I was my favorite album from 2012 and I cannot wait for Time II. Now it seems as if this may never even happen. So sad that this new hip-hop garbage sells millions of records and most people don't even know who Wintersun is. So much shit is just wrong today with this world.

'So sad that this new hip-hop garbage sells millions of records and most people don't even know who Wintersun is. So much shit is just wrong today with this world.'

Every single person I have met irl who likes Wintersun is like this what is with this band

I agree that record companies are getting more and more scumy, but this guy sounds like a little princess. Suck it up and work with what you have, don't demand a brand new studio lmao

People will actually pay to fund this too I'm sure. Jari seems like a cry baby tbh just fucking do it and stop trying to demand money from the fans.

Garm didn't give a fuck when Ulver was recording Nattens in a forest did he? ;]

Hawks: It just seems like you're too quick to declare him an egomaniac (and yes, his goal is high-reaching), and you appear to be disregarding the huge problem he has with the label. I'm sorry for how I worded my original comment, it wasn't what I was trying to convey.

Dude it's pretty obvious at this point. He's been bitching about this for like 10 years. I'm not disregarding it, but plenty of other
artists have the same problem and don't complain like Jari does. He's just annoying now. Might just be me though idk.

I just don't like when people on this site always assume the worst about EVERYTHING on here before they learn anything more about it. I see the same thing with music and not just news. When the first news story about the new Mastodon was posted, everyone was quick to declare "this is gonna suck", but if you look now it's one of the most acclaimed albums on this site this year.

@TPM The label isn't the problem here though. His first album, arguably his best, was produced without a hitch and the production on it was very good (sure not perfect but it was his first album). Now based on this you'd think he'd have no problem with the second but he wanted to up the ante production and arrangement wise and his computer couldn't handle it. Fine, I can kind of get that. His label put up with him taking years and years to release Time I and now he tells them the computer isn't enough and he needs a whole studio. How many bands his size (or bigger even) have their own fucking studio? It's a huge ego thing. And now he expects the label that has helped him release his albums, gotten him equipment and put up with ridiculous wait times to just let him make a bunch of money off a name they helped him build while they sit back and reap no benefits?

"I just don't like when people on this site always assume the worst about EVERYTHING on here before
they learn anything more about it."

How is us "assuming" he's in the wrong any worse than you "assuming" the label is in the wrong?

Yeah it's obviously him being a little bitch about the whole situation. Not related at all, but do you think bands like Mayhem and Darkthrone would complain about some shit like this? They don't give a fuck where they're recording as long as they're making their music. Then again I could be completely fucking wrong, but who knows....

Take what you have and work with it is the point I'm trying to make, don't beg your fans to fund your own personal studio. That to me is taking advantage of the people who enjoy his music. Again though just my take on the matter.

I have now joined the side in thinking Jari is the problem. What have you guys done

Jari Maenpaa died today, at the ripe old age of 97. Fans of his in the melodic metal community are devastated. This tragic event will cease the production of his long awaited follow-up to 2038's masterpiece Time II.

Label hating seems to be a trend these days. Although I'm sure many of them deserve it and I doubt NB is a perfect label (if such a thing even exists), that doesn't mean the artist is necessarily always right either.

How is us "assuming" he's in the wrong any worse than you "assuming" the label is in the wrong? [2]

I feel that there is more evidence for the label being wrong.

Are there any other sources of this apart from what Jari wrote here?

How about this..... Fuck both of them!

the self-titled was my favorite album for a few years and it was so long between releases that i still haven't listened to the first time

I'm gonna listen to Time II when/if it comes out, but I'm not paying anymore attention to this guy until then. I'm fine with the s/t.

I mean I guess this thread is paying attention to him, but you get the point.

if he had just done a straightforward metal release like the s/t it would have been out ages ago

those ridiculous orchestras took way too fucking long to make and they don't even sound great

Yeah I mean I dig the first Time, but for the amount of time that it actually took it's pretty damn underwhelming.

Hawks: It just seems like you're too quick to declare him an egomaniac (and yes, his goal is high-reaching), and you appear to be disregarding the huge problem he has with the label. I'm sorry for how I worded my original comment, it wasn't what I was trying to convey.

Wasn't it the label's decision to release time in two parts?

Jari is fast replacing Thom Yorke and Bono as the biggest douchebag in music today.

@ BelchingSlime

Probably, but only because they needed to release something after seven fucking years.

Wintersun in general is a terrible project, I hope nothing ever gets released again under this moniker.

Wasn't it the label's decision to release time in two parts?

Jari also told us that part 2 was in the works when time I released, so one could easily assume that the record was already done, but instead it wasn't anywhere near done. This really is a joke

The point learned today children:

Don't complain on the internet unless you want to have your ass handed to you.

He complains about having a record deal.

Ass.

And Nuclear Blast just released a statement regarding this whole matter. Makes him look like the biggest unappreciative asshole on earth.

Where was it posted?

Metalsucks

http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/08/01/nuclear-blast-responds-wintersuns-jari-maenpaa/

"And Nuclear Blast just released a statement regarding this whole matter. Makes him look like the biggest unappreciative asshole on earth."

That isn't already how he looked?

Talk about entitlement. Why don't you have a Koenigsegg and a few beach houses on top? And while we're at it, let's add a private jet and a butler.

Thank you for the link Crysis.

I just hope they get this shit sorted out.

@Wolf Saving those for Time III

It seems like Jari is exaggerating his situation and it being a right snob with this whole studio thing

It's not like we're at a point where DIY artists or artists with no financial backup can make incredibly good and well-produced music. /cough

It hurts my brain reading the fan comments on Wintersun's facebook page.

How can people believe this guy?

Vicky Sedano Rosa says: "I'm so fucking disgusted right now I think I'm gonna puke. What a bunch of bastards [Nuclear Blast], How do they steal every penny from someone, take advantage of their talent , crush their dreams, and are able to sleep at night. I just can't believe it."

Mathieu Varg Dubreuil says: "I want to give you all my money, but I also like how honest you are, telling us not to give you money because you wouldn't even get it. It breaks my heart to hear such sad news from you, but as you can see, the fans are all supporting you! I will never forget how nice you were when we met in Quebec, thank you again for signing my guitar! Let us know of your solution to this problem when you find it!"

Russ Merullo says: "You know the music scene is grim when big names like Wintersun are struggling to get by. It's a shame that record labels are such money grubbing assholes that they'd rather see one of their bands die than get a bit extra money."

Now imagine hundreds of comments like that.

Guys. He had OVER EIGHT YEARS TO GET THIS ALBUM OUT.

Fanboys being fanboys.

Wow, did they not read the part where Jari is being a picky bastard who seems impossible to work with? Such ignorance

Well, overly emotional attachment makes ya stupid. That's what makes fanboys.

It's clear that both parties are at fault but NB are correct when they say these matters shouldn't be addressed publicly. Not sure what Jari is thinking, but he sure feels sorry for himself

I don't understand the problem...I'm more inclined to side with Nuclear Blast on this one. It's hard to believe that Jari can't find some common ground with NB, especially considering how awesome NB has been with accommodating and turning around bands like CoB, Sonata Arctica, Hammerfall, Edguy, etc...I would think that Nuclear Blast would be more than happy to work with Wintersun with releasing an epic album if it were feasible, so it seems like the issue lies with Jari.

Agreed ^. I get the feeling that Jari agreed to have certain privileges when he signed up for them, and now he wants more and won't seem to take no for an answer and it's NB who are called out to compromise. He also knew that this facebook post would get fans on his side and get them to pretty much slate NB, but it's not like they were ever going to achieve anything, so why bother?

"in cases like this the artist is always in the right even if they make power metal"

That moment when Wintersun is melodeath

Nuclear Blast handled their response really well imo.

What a fucking con artist.

"what we all enjoy the most: a good blast of METAL"

Everything I have read and researched about this over the past two days has stripped away any sympathy I had for the man

That isn't already how he looked?

Reinforcement rules!

"Everything I have read and researched about this over the past two days has stripped away any sympathy I had for the man"

pretty much the same here :|

the sad thing is he'll find a way to get the funding and then just make more excuses as to why he can't complete time ii or the five fillerless albums he promised

Wow, that never occurred to me. He'll get the funding and could still easily complain (probably about NB) and would delay it and stuff. This guy is just not trustworthy

Don't see how it was possible for him to make Time I in the first place if he then also lacked the perfect recording environment that he requires. *cough*

i just cant give a shit about this band/project/nerd anymore

He probably had to compromise, like the poor and suffocated soul he is

DarkNoctus: You have betrayed the cause of metal. It is our job as metal fans to support the artists of our chosen genre NO MATTER WHAT! You say he's making excuses. He's an artist. And when you're an artist, you should expect support during hard times like Jari is going through, but you, like many other so-called metal fans, have betrayed him at the first opportunity. His demands are fully justified, considering how his art is making the world a better place.

Thewhitemetalknight

did you register here just to post that

also what the fuck is the cause of metal

lol wow.

Someone give that guy a knighthood

DarkNoctus: I did register here today, after I noticed a a similar sentinment toward Jari that this post shows: http://lairofthebastard.blogspot.com/2014/07/jari-maenpaa-his-stupid-fucking-face.html. And the cause of metal is the ideal state of the metal community: a place for supporting artists and not tearing them down.

Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

Wait, so you're saying we can't critique a metal band?!

What if they killed someone? Would you still support them in the CAUSE OF METAL?

ChoccyPhilly: You are using a logical fallacy to attempt to deafeat my argument. This only proves my point about the metal community.

Has Jari killed anyone yet? I didn't think so.

Your argument is flawed. You seem to say that we should support artists no matter what, as if we can't take a pragmatic view. jari is not exempt from criticism, mate

For his music that may be true. But for his methods? No. If he needs money, we as metal fans MUST help him, or they can no longer be considered devoted to the cause of metal.

But do you not think Jari is being a whiney little bitch and asking for more than necessary?

shit band

you treat being a metal fan like it's some kind of brotherhood

you like a genre of music, dude, stop being a dork about it and use your brain

stahp guys

EnyaFangirl: It's people like you that are the reason why I've made my presence known. You come to this thread only to critizize the artist. You do not believe in the common principle of SUPPORTING artists.

DarkNoctus: In a way, it is a sort of clan. All of us must band together to support strugling artists and be thankful for what they do for us. Considering the state of unpopularity the metal community is in right now, they need our support more than ever.

ChoccyPhilly: No, I do not, and I am baffled so many people think so. He possesses great talent but lacks sufficient funds to put it to good use. That is why we must help through pledging.

Fanboying 101

Why has "fanboy" become such a negative label? It is those who are called "fanboys" who will reinforce the cause of metal and belief in unity amongst metal fans.

DarkNoctus: In a way, it is a sort of clan. All of us must band together to support strugling artists and be thankful for what they do for us. Considering the state of unpopularity the metal community is in right now, they need our support more than ever.

also, unpopularity? what world are you living in?

He has failed to deliver because not enough of us have given him the support he needs.

he asked for a computer, he said it was all he needed to finish time, he got it

how on earth did we not support him enough

Well, it is clearly obvious that YOU did not support him based on your comments. He knew that if he asked for any more than a computer, that people like you would be unwilling to support him at all.

You'd buy him a car if he "needed" it to finish Time, wouldn't you?

He has not asked for a car, but if he gave a legitimate reason to require one, then I would indeed support him.

Ilu noctus

actually, you're right, i should support him

let me just gather some planks of wood for his sauna and we'll be on our way to like 2 minutes more of music until he wants a hot tub with it

I'm seeing a parallel here http://uproxx.com/smokingsection/2013/06/new-light-church-50000-helicopter-blades/

I cannot imagine a sauna as a requirement for making music. For a place of creation, however, it is perfectly valid. And also, he released a whole forty minute album last time. Get your facts straight.

Let: This has nothing to do with music and delves into religious territory. It is illogical that you would would compare this to an artist asking for pledge money to fund this project.

fuck this band

Dryden: See my above response to EnyaFangirl.

I'll need a couple mil so I can travel in space in order to fully comprehend the vastness of the universe. Then I'll finally be able to find inspiration for composing my dark ambient album. Please support me

Let: He is not asking for any sort of inspiration. He gets his inspiration naturaly from his own surroundings, and would never make such a useless request. All he needs is a place to comfortably create his unique artistic endeavors. His price is merely a fraction of what all you are comparing this to, and, unlike these hyperbolles such as "space travel", is justified.

never believin

Additionaly, those like you that exaggerate needs of a tragic diamond in the rough are what is wrong with not only the metal community, but with the world.

I cannot imagine a sauna as a requirement for making music. For a place of creation, however, it is perfectly valid. And also, he released a whole forty minute album last time. Get your facts straight.

hatin n rapin

It was eight years late because of technical problems, something that the briefest research would be able to tell you. And like I said in my last post, you are exagerating the needs of someone who desperately requires our help.

Do you know how long 8 fuckin' years is? I've done my research on it. So his computer malfunctions and doesn't return to production work for another year.

How is that justified?

DID HE ACTUALLY SAy HE NEEDED A SAUNA LOL

hehahahhaehe

It is justified because the stress it had on him caused cases of writers block, but still, he powered through. Further proving that he deserves our support due to his sheer perseverance through all life continues to throw at his endeavors.

Ahh i see. You must be Jari himself.

so he had writers block despite claiming the whole thing was written since before 2006

yeah okay whatever man

i know exactly what metalknight looks like just by his comments and username

metalknight you are a painfully unfunny troll please just stop before you hurt yourself

climatic: What I look like has no relevance to the point I am trying to make.

DarkNoctus: The album eventually got delivered right? That's all that matters.

noctus, are you really biting here? This is the most obvious baiting I've seen in a long time

its a shame it was even made

"you are exagerating the needs of someone who desperately requires our help."

is he dying?

You are attempting to paint my defending of an unjustly ridiculed artist as "baiting". That only further proves my point.

you guys are all hilarious for believing this obvious troll. Only black metal elitists are as devoted and fanboyish as this kid, and Wintersun isn't black metal so he clearly can't be serious.

#justheavymetalfacts.

still therapeutic [:

I've seen joke jpegs about Jari in the sauna, but where'd all that come from? I'm not big on this band so I missed out on all those totally-newsworthy discussions.

nope wait, found it on his facebook post. Lol seriously?

looks like he had the Big fight with Nuclear Blast yesterday.
I'm waiting for the apology statement

links pls?

so you guys know he's smoking crack with the monies right?@

god he's pathetic, can't believe he used to be my idol

obviously

bitch thinks he's a diva

I'd only be OK with his spending the money on crack if he were to smoke it out in the woods whilst recording the new album. Just like Ulver.

fuck wintersun so much

noctus, are you really biting here? This is the most obvious baiting I've seen in a long time

which sadly isn't the case. and Ulver keeps releasing albums in every two years

Are you sure they're the same guy? One blog post says he hasn't even been into metal for that long, which makes the username a little odd. :3