Cornelius Olympics Controversy

2021-07-16 by dimsim3478 | 166 Comments
Renowned Japanese musician Keigo Oyamada--known for his influential late '80s Shibuya-kei band Flipper's Guitar and acclaimed solo project Cornelius--has been tapped to help compose the music for the opening ceremony of the anticipated and controversial Tokyo 2020 Olympics. Shortly after the announcement of his involvement, problematic remarks made by Oyamada in two separate magazine interviews dating back to 1994 and 1995 resurfaced online, resulting in widespread backlash.

In the interviews, Oyamada detailed acts of bullying that he perpetrated as a child in elementary, middle and high school against a number of his differently-abled classmates, recalling his actions with seemingly little remorse. According to the interviews, one victim was (in separate incidents) tied up inside a cardboard box, forced to walk around naked in front of other students, and even made to engage in coprophagia by Oyamada. Oyamada also compelled another victim to buy things for him, practiced wrestling moves on the victim, and was a bystander in an incident where an older student forced the victim to masturbate in front of them. Furthermore, Oyamada recalled assaulting other classmates, locking them inside of vaulting boxes, and making fun of students with Down syndrome.

Oyamada, now a 52-year-old father, released a statement in which he apologised for and condemned his history of bullying and the cavalier attitude he showed in the interviews. Although Oyamada expressed that he "should have declined" the invitation to become involved in the Olympics opening ceremony in light of the opposition that it has raised, he has not withdrawn his participation and will nevertheless continue to work on the ceremony music.

Oyamada's statement can be read at his official website (http://cornelius-sound.com/) or Twitter account (http://twitter.com/corneliusjapan). A rough translation of the aforementioned interviews is available here: http://oymdkgo.blogspot.com/2021/07/inquiry-into-behavior-of-keigo-oyamada.html

UPDATE: Cornelius announced via Twitter that he will no longer be involved with the Olympics opening ceremony, having just resigned his position on the Organizing Committee. http://natalie.mu/music/news/437575

In addition to the continuous activity of his solo project Cornelius, Oyamada's six-piece supergroup METAFIVE (which also includes Yukihiro Takahashi of Yellow Magic Orchestra and popular solo artist Leo Imai) is set to release their long-awaited sophomore album METAATEM on August 11. It will be promoted with a one-man concert at KT Zepp Yokohama on July 26, followed by a headlining slot at the prestigious Fuji Rock Festival, where Oyamada will also be performing separately as Cornelius.

Tagged: Cornelius

Comments:Add a Comment 
conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Had to google coprophagia... That's nasty.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


false metaller confirmed

Digging: Morgoth - Feel Sorry for the Fanatic

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


bruh

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


What I meant to say is

Shit fun is my fave!

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


that reminds me coprofago are actually kind of an interesting band tbh

Jamdbz
July 16th 2021
1003 Comments


the fuck

sixdegrees
July 16th 2021
11846 Comments


Wtf

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


anyway yea bullying in japan and sk is insane and very much swept under the rug

LeddSledd
July 16th 2021
5670 Comments


who would've thought an infamously xenophobic, purist, and toxic culture would produce sadistic levels of bullying

Digging: My Own Grave - Unholy

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


u forgot conformist [:

(which is really the biggest one, older people find it more shameful that a problem exists than you know... actually trying to fix it ffs)

LeddSledd
July 16th 2021
5670 Comments


japan is overrated yea

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"who would've thought an infamously xenophobic, purist, and toxic culture would produce sadistic levels of bullying"

Oh, so kids didn't face sadistic levels of bullying literally everywhere in the '80s? There's an entire genre of American cinema based on kids getting bullied in high school.

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


I don't disagree, but I am having a hard time pinpointing an American 80's bullying movie with coprophagia.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Oh, so kids didn't face sadistic levels of bullying literally everywhere in the '80s? There's an entire genre of American cinema based on kids getting bullied in high school.

calm down mayo, no one said there wasnt bullying anywhere else. but if you took like 10 mins to read up you'd know japan is way worse

DavidYowi
July 16th 2021
1223 Comments


“Oh, so kids didn't face sadistic levels of bullying literally everywhere in the '80s? There's an entire genre of American cinema based on kids getting bullied in high school.”

With such films like Salo

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"calm down mayo"?

"if you took like 10 mins to read up you'd know japan is way worse"

Sources please.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


https://savvytokyo.com/bullying-japanese-schools/

https://www.dw.com/en/why-is-bullying-so-vicious-in-japanese-schools/a-46074534

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/girls-death-japan-prompts-probe-alleged-bullying-77528058

https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00855/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-bullying-in-Japan-and-Korea-so-mean-and-terrible

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED434755.pdf

its really not that hard

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


they dont shoot up schools because unlike yall theyre not taught from a young age that the world revolves around them... they kill themselves instead because no one gives a fuck ur supposed to fall in line and shut up and if anything goes wrong its your own fault [:

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


I think Salo is set in Italy?

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"its really not that hard"

None of these are comparative studies. Anyone can find a bunch of articles about bullying in x-country.

dimsim3478
July 16th 2021
8953 Comments


"Oh, so kids didn't face sadistic levels of bullying literally everywhere in the '80s? There's an entire genre of American cinema based on kids getting bullied in high school."

also Bully (dir. Larry Clark), which is based on a true story.

Digging: Ging Nang Boyz - ????

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


ok brainlet

go look it up yourself if youre interested, instead of derailing conversations that you have no place in with your unwarranted self importance and making them about poor americans/// wont someone think of the plight of the white americans :[[[

SteakByrnes
July 16th 2021
24319 Comments


It's pretty well known that Japan has a huge bullying problem, but it's also pretty well known that you never back down from your stance so no use arguing

Digging: Origami Button - No Parking

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


we have like at least 3 regulars on this site who live in japan, one of whom actually teaches there last i checked, you could literally ask them instead of being a stupid concern troll

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"It's pretty well known that Japan has a huge bullying problem, but it's also pretty well known that you never back down from your stance so no use arguing"

It's pretty well known that every country in the world, particularly in the '80s has and had a well known bullying problem. Using a particularly egregious instance in Japan to justify thinly veiled xenophobia is a pretty shitty stance to have, if that's what you're going for.

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"go look it up yourself if youre interested, instead of derailing conversations that you have no place in with your unwarranted self importance and making them about poor americans"

Wow park. It's amazing that after all this time you think I'm American (and possibly white, is that what the "mayo" dig was about?) and that this is about making it about Americans.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


you're fucking retarded if you read xenophobia into that

we actually have a pretty good idea of WHY things are the way they are, not just "lol japan so crazy", unlike you who barged into the discussion uninvited and uninformed

and its not JUST japan either, south korea has the same problem and probably other places that i have less knowledge about too

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"probably other places that i have less knowledge about too"

That's a LOT of places clearly, because practically every one has major problems with bullying now, and certainly did 30-40 years ago when that shit wasn't taken as seriously. But hey, I guess they all had infamously toxic culture.

SteakByrnes
July 16th 2021
24319 Comments


"It's pretty well that every country in the world, particularly in the '80s has and had a well known bullying problem. Using a particularly egregious instance in Japan to justify thinly veiled xenophobia is a pretty shitty stance to have, if that's what you're going for."

I mean I love Japan but I'm able to notice the faults in the culture, especially how homophobic and misogynistic it is in the workplace and school for one. You ask for proof but it really won't matter because you'll just "yea but" and "um actually" everything so why even bother

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


christ you're hopelessly dense aren't you

south korea even had a law for some years requiring websites to collect identifying information about users in an attempt to curb online harassment and abuse, law spurred by a suicide, although it has since been revoked because it didnt have enough of an impact

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>You ask for proof but it really won't matter because you'll just "yea but" and "um actually" everything so why even bother

yep just like the americans who go "oh yea? show me where in the law it says racist things! oh you cant find it? too bad, guess its not really a problem"

thicker than pig shit and absolutely clueless

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


No, the "proof" that I was asking for is that bullying in Japan is quantitatively or qualitatively worse than it is in wherever you live. A bunch of random articles about the fact that bullying exists (because of course it does) doesn't prove a damn thing because you can find similar articles about any country.

I'm not denying that Japan has major problems, some of which may be worse than other countries. However, making a sweeping statement about "oh the toxic Japanese culture is what makes it have such bad bullying" based on anecdotal instances of bullying is pretty clearly ignorant and casually xenophobic.

DavidYowi
July 16th 2021
1223 Comments


“I think Salo is set in Italy?”
Oh shit you’re right, my bad lol. Point is Sitar’s response makes no sense because (among other things) no American film based on bullying involves kids eating shit

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>However, making a sweeping statement

no one is making up the sweeping statements

this is a problem that has already been acknowledged. just because you are not privy to it, doesn't mean it's not real or serious.

>oh the toxic Japanese culture is what makes it have such bad bullying

yes, thats the problem with toxic aspects of culture, they are bad because they lead to bad things. there are fields of study that look at this crap, and social activists and "muh sjws" call them out and try to curb them, you should actually engage with their findings and logic instead of just crying xenophobia and trying to sweep it under the rug

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


hes so fucking dumb he doesnt realise the exact "logic" hes employing is what people use to deny racism and sexism in his own country and most of the world lol

"well hang on there, do you have actual PrOoOOF ?!?! that this culture is bad and leads to bad things?"

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


>no one is making up the sweeping statements

>who would've thought an infamously xenophobic, purist, and toxic culture would produce sadistic levels of bullying

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Haha all good Yowi, yeah it appears teen coprophagia is an Italian thing. It appears (from our research efforts above)

LeddSledd
July 16th 2021
5670 Comments


my bad Sitar, acknowledging that Japan was inherently and radically fueled by just about every level of bigotry for about two thousand years and that those effects may rub off onto current social problems is itself xenophobic. apologies

WatchItExplode
July 16th 2021
9105 Comments


Mayo did nothing to nobody no reason to besmirch its good name.

Digging: Teamonade - This Far

bloc
July 16th 2021
66295 Comments


Ah shit here we go again

Digging: Gaelle - Transient

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


yes sitar you fucking mong, leddsledd is not the one who created that idea, it is an idea that already exists and has been documented regardless of how much you want to pretend the problem is not real

fucking weebs smh

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


pointing out xenophobia is actually xenophobic

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>pointing out xenophobia is actually xenophobic


ikr, those fucking racist liberals think minorities are disadvantaged! they should just treat everyone the same and pretend there are no problems in society!!

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"leddsledd is not the one who created that idea"

LMAO the fact that you think I'm addressing LeddSledd's comment because he created the idea of fucking casual xenophobia is hilarious. Log off and go read a book park.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Log off and go read a book park.

you are literally so fucking stupid you cannot even look into this topic before you start derailing a thread for your own self-aggrandisement

you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

get out of this conversation

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


Less commenting more reading park. Chop chop!

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


you are basically like those dumb redditors who barge into discussions about feminism having never read a single fucking paper on the topic in your life and go "proof? proof that this is good? proof that this is substantiated? proof? proof?"

no one owes you shit

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


idk why i expected more than room temperature iq from an ac/dc fan, thats prob my bad

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


The 2020 Olympics are only a week away. Even when I take into consideration the circumstances, it still feels weird.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


you have no clue what goes on in these countries, you have never engaged with any natives, you have no place in this conversation

Emim
July 16th 2021
30751 Comments


"It's pretty well known that Japan has a huge bullying problem, but it's also pretty well known that you never back down from your stance so no use arguing"

These Never Back Down movies are getting worse and worse

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


As in it feels weird to say..

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


with trumptard skele being on the shitlist again and gyromania supposedly working towards bettering himself, i was really hoping no one would claim the throne of dogshit braindead takes that only privileged idiots who dont know shit about history or how to understand different cultures could possibly espouse

reminds me of why i stop coming here every now and then

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"you have no clue what goes on in these countries, you have never engaged with any natives, you have no place in this conversation"

LMAO Park, is this directed at me? It's pretty hilarious because you obviously know even less about me than you know about bullying, but here you are still yapping.

Deathconscious
July 16th 2021
26358 Comments


"coprophagia"

I only know what this means because of death metal.

dimsim3478
July 16th 2021
8953 Comments


I am having a hard time pinpointing an American 80's bullying movie with coprophagia.

no American film based on bullying involves kids eating shit

Park's argument is valid because it's based on reports and facts about widespread severe bullying in Japan and how it's linked to broader overarching aspects of their culture.

What you're saying here sounds more like "bullying in Japan is worse than everywhere else because I heard one kid made another kid each shit in Japan", which is not logically valid. The severity of this one incident could be more a result of the particular sociopathic tendencies of the perpetrator than the pervasive effect of Japanese culture on the behaviour of their children. We just don't know.

It makes more sense to look at this issue in terms of stats and studies than the severity of particular incidents. There are lots of horrifying incidents of extreme bullying all around the world (I mentioned the true-story movie "Bully" earlier). The extremity does not itself evidence that it was somehow exacerbated by a particular national culture. The frequency of incidents and credibility of cause-and-effect studies are necessary to show a unique cultural issue. Of course, as Park indicated, it seems well-known that there is a link. My issue isn't with whether that link exists, but rather how we've reasoned that it exists (maybe this is what Sitar is getting at).

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


big text

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


"
What you're saying here sounds more like "bullying in Japan is worse than everywhere else because I heard one kid made another kid each shit in Japan",

Hey, sorry but that's not what anyone is saying

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Tbh the coprophagia movie component of this thread was to balance out the strong fisted opinions

Havey
July 16th 2021
10614 Comments


@everyone i recommend weed

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Sigh... Can also rec.. obviously.. god my username is sad haha

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>it seems well-known that there is a link. My issue isn't with whether that link exists, but rather how we've reasoned that it exists

the issue with how reliably and clinically you can "prove" this is, is the same issue you have in the case of sexual abuse in, well, the entire world. its hard to prove that its underreported. its hard to prove that its not taken seriously. when shaming, victim-blaming and gaslighting are baked into the culture itself. thats the reason why brainlets and those hellbent on preserving the status quo can get away with "well, that's not really hard conclusive proof that this is a widespread societal issue"

in countries with a notably individualist culture, like what i often criticise the USA for, people will make a fuss, people will sue, they will get their way, it will become harder to hide and sweep under the rug. in countries with a collectivist culture were you're supposed not to make a fuss, supposed to pretend you're fine otherwise you're acting shameful etc, it is constantly used to browbeat victims into submission so of course yuo're not gonna be able to realise the extent of the problem as easily

dimsim3478
July 16th 2021
8953 Comments


@cone That's fine, I misunderstood you. Anyway what I was getting at can be thought of in terms of what Park said earlier:

we actually have a pretty good idea of WHY things are the way they are, not just "lol japan so crazy"

I got an inkling of the discussion being more on the "lol japan so crazy" side. Yes this Cornelius incident is wild but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Japan's horrifying bullying problem. THAT SAID, that problem definitely exists in a way that is different from bullying elsewhere.

ShadowRemains
July 16th 2021
26545 Comments


lol this thread

and fuck this guy, he can rot in hell

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


nothing i said was about this incident which i dont care to discuss as a specific example, nor about any of the other notable horrific events

its something that if you have enough exopsure to the culture you can figure out by yourself, even before you start reading articles about it or go seek out what people are discussing online. unless you are one of those redditor STEMlords who is completely oblivious to any kind of nuance and subtext in media and politics, it's practically impossible not to notice on at least some intuitive level, given enough experience and immersion

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"well, that's not really hard conclusive proof that this is a widespread societal issue"

There you go again with your inability to read. I didn't say bullying wasn't a widespread social issue in Japan. I said it was a widespread social issue EVERYWHERE! Singling out Japan for its "toxic culture" is what I took issue with.

Here, you want me to spoonfeed you actual literature on the topic instead of a random quora post (lol!). Read this.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.830.3627&rep=rep1&type=pdf


parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>I said it was a widespread social issue EVERYWHERE!

sure

its just worse in some places than it is in others/most

all societal ills are everywhere, theyre just worse in some places than in others

youre like one step away from "actually, white people are also victims of racism" territory with your dumb fucking deflections

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


Quit yapping and start reading.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


god just shut the fuck up brainlet, no one in this thread asked for your desperate attempts to derail from a real problem and its seriousness

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


"Quit yapping and start reading."

this might be the worst attempted troll job ive ever seen


SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"youre like one step away from "actually, white people are also victims of racism" territory with your dumb fucking deflections"

It's incredible that you're still alluding to a belief that I'm a white American.

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


https://www.sputnikmusic.com/images/members/424605.jpg is this you

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


it does not matter what you are, you are making the same tired idiotic arguments they are, and exhibiting the same unwarranted narcissism in barging into conversations where you dont belong just to pretend that problems arent really that big of a deal as well

DavidYowi
July 16th 2021
1223 Comments


What the fuck is Sitar’s deal with always playing devil’s advocate in every thread

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"god just shut the fuck up brainlet, no one in this thread asked for your desperate attempts to derail from a real problem and its seriousness"

That's kind of the exact opposite of what I've been saying but hey, reading comprehension clearly isn't your forte.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>What the fuck is Sitar’s deal with always playing devil’s advocate in every thread

basically this:

https://i.imgur.com/xzRIFIN.jpg

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"is this you"

I can neither confirm nor deny.

"What the fuck is Sitar’s deal with always playing devil’s advocate in every thread"

Devil's advocate, how so? By calling out casual xenophobia and ignorance?

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>By calling out casual xenophobia and ignorance?

kill yourself moron

the only ignorant one here is you, denying the severity of a very real issue that if you actually gave a fuck about in the slightest you would not be doing

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


From that paper

"Although almost half of the participants in the United states and South Africa were not involved in bullying behaviours...only 23 percent of the Japanese students reported not being involved". Page 9/10.

So there's that. But also, that paper is dated 2007 and outside the scope of the original conversation, which was bullying in the 80's

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"kill yourself moron"

Lol, isn't that bullying? Is it your culture's toxicity that led you to this park?

(NOW I'm just trolling)

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


no, its my genuine belief that you are very stupid and harmful and should end your own life

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


you literally do not know anything about japan if you can say the idiocy youve been saying all over this thread

let alone anywhere near as much as i do

shut the fuck up already, literally no one on this site gives a fuck what you think

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


@Cone, true. But the paper also says that instances of physical violence were reported much more often by the US participants than either SA or Japan. Also on p. 9.

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


So research indicates there was either more bullying in Japan than the US and South Africa in 2007, or, Japanese students snitch more? Or there's a discrepancy in the definition of bullying between these three sets of teens

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


I saw that sitar, yep that's in there.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


you are a brainlet trying desperately to win internet arguments by denying real life issues which are notoriously difficult to study because of the power dynamics of the system keeping them underreported

you are a fucking idiot and no one is impressed by how hard youre trying to claim moral high ground over nothing, when you dont even have it, when you have no idea what the fuck youre talking about in the first place, over people discussing a serious issue

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"shut the fuck up already, literally no one on this site gives a fuck what you think"

Clearly you do because you've written 25 comments responding to me. Just another thing you're wrong about.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Clearly you do because you've written 25 comments responding to me

me telling you that you are a worthless brainless piece of shit is not the same as giving a fuck what you think

in the same way that if an idiot is revving his engine in the street telling him off is not validating him. you are noise, you get called out, thats what you deserve

no one is impressed with you, shut the fuck up

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Hahaha the images that pop up when you search "brainlet" are golden

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


>people discussing a serious issue

>false metaller confirmed

>that reminds me coprofago are actually kind of an interesting band tbh

I think it's naptime for you park.


SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"me telling you that you are a worthless brainless piece of shit is not the same as giving a fuck what you think"

Well actually it means you do give a fuck because you're having a very intense emotional reaction. Imagine going off the handle like this about an opinion you don't care about.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


yes that was before it got serious, why are you still so desperate to score points? do you really think you're making an actual point here or what

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>because you're having a very intense emotional reaction

calling idiots out for being idiots is not intense for me at all, i have been doing it on this site for like 12 years now and i will do it whenever i feel like it because im way too tired of idiocy in this world especially when its used to defend abhorrent problems :]

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


Well cone and I managed to have a pretty decent conversation between all your ranting. Maybe if you weren't angrily mashing your keyboard so much you would have noticed eh?

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


no anger involved in telling idiots off, just what i do

i am not impressed with idiocy, never have been

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


" a very intense emotional reaction. Imagine going off the handle like this about an opinion you don't care about"

I do that shit all the time and I feel so sheepish afterwards. I did it the other day with Colton, I got up him for disowning friends who shit in his house. I'm sorry Colton, my enthusiasm for why you think the way you do got the best of me

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


maybe instead of crying xenophobia like a brainlet, to people who understand this kind of thing way better than you because we're not some privileged bumblefucks like most of the internet, and who are better versed in the goings on of the country at hand (and again south korea as well, not just japan, their issues are very similar) you should engage with the actual arguments if you actually want "a decent conversation"

ShadowRemains
July 16th 2021
26545 Comments


> Oh, so kids didn't face sadistic levels of bullying literally everywhere in the '80s? There's an entire genre of American cinema based on kids getting bullied in high school.

it seems the whole clusterfuck started here at this red herring (and it is a red herring)

there's no doubt that America is also a toxic, xenophobic culture at the best of times... but that wasn't the point in the first place

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"I didn't say bullying wasn't a widespread social issue in Japan. I said it was a widespread social issue EVERYWHERE! Singling out Japan for its "toxic culture" is what I took issue with."

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


thank you shadow, you are correct

almost like someone joined the conversation only to stir the pot by being an un-self-aware smartass

BookoftheFallen
July 16th 2021
650 Comments


I’ve been bullied on Sputnik someone please help.

ShadowRemains
July 16th 2021
26545 Comments


but the thread is about something occurring in japan, and as someone with a japanese background, these problems are indeed very real

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Singling out Japan for its "toxic culture" is what I took issue with.

well actually yes there are particular reasons why a problem can be worse or take a different form in a certain environment

that is also why not all racism is the same, why men's issues are not equivalent to women's issues, and so on

do you sincerely not understand that you are using the exact same logic white anglos use to deflect racism conversations by saying racism can happen to any race and its always equally bad? or do you genuinely not understand why that logic completely falls apart in the real world where circumstances are different and influence things differently?

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>and as someone with a japanese background, these problems are indeed very real

sorry bro, until you make a cold clinical study that STEMlords cant ignore, we cannot take you seriously

just like how the experiences of people living in japan and teaching in japan are dismissed as "some random quora link (lol)" by bad faith actors who are more interested in scoring points than addressing real issues

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


My favourite was this

"What you're saying here sounds more like "bullying in Japan is worse than everywhere else because I heard one kid made another kid each shit in Japan", which is not logically valid"

So off the mark but so So good

Deathconscious
July 16th 2021
26358 Comments


"I did it the other day with Colton, I got up him for disowning friends who shit in his house."

Lmao pretty sure i added his comment to my pasta list, great stuff. What a silly person.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>"What you're saying here sounds more like "bullying in Japan is worse than everywhere else because I heard one kid made another kid each shit in Japan", which is not logically valid"

ye, its not logically valid, and its also not at all what anyone was saying? unless i just ignored somebody

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


"Lmao pretty sure i added his comment to my pasta list, great stuff. What a silly person"

Haha, yeah I do think it's a bit of a hardcore toilet opinion, but I'll try to respect it in future

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"to people who understand this kind of thing way better than you because we're not some privileged bumblefucks"

Please, park. Tell me who you think I am and what my background is. I am EXTREMELY curious.

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"but the thread is about something occurring in japan, and as someone with a japanese background, these problems are indeed very real"

Again, not denying it's a problem. Merely taking issue with casually pointing at a country's culture as the cause of the problem when the same problem exists everywhere, and despite park's ranting is not worse in Japan than elsewhere.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Merely taking issue with casually pointing at a country's culture as the cause of the problem

i dont think japanese culture is the cause of japan's bullying problem, i think japanese culture exacerbates something that indeed does "exist everywhere" in a very insidious way, which again is not even unique to japan since very similar cultural norms produce a very similar expression of the problem in south korea, like i keep pointing out

i asked you a very simple question that you refuse to answer

do you understand that your logic of "it happens everywhere" and refusing to look at the particulars or what meaningful differences in circumstances and degree exist is the same logic that white anglos use to downplay racism and pretend it affects everyone just as much including them?

do you understand this: yes or no?

do you understand why this logic is specious and not conducive to any meaningful reform: yes or no?

do you understand that even if you are not white or american, you are still using their exact same faulty logic to derail this conversation? because of some xenophobia bogeyman, like i have any interest in shitting on japan or its people or its culture. if anything the internet skews too far towards idolising japan without understanding that it too has problems, and those problems are not quite "exactly the same" because well human civilization is not exactly the same everywhere.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


no respectable sociologist or anthropologist will suggest a "colourblind" approach to analysing sociocultural issues

colourblindness is something the stupid and the scheming use to delay and obstruct progress

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


This is your problem park. I am responding to one part of your statement and you keep strawmanning my argument to look like I'm responding to another.

Here's the part I'm responding to: "japanese culture exacerbates something that indeed does "exist everywhere""

Here's my response: No, it doesn't. Every account you have provided is purely anecdotal. None of the studies I have seen back up the idea that bullying is worse in Japan than other random countries. Therefore, there is little evidence that Japanese culture exacerbates bullying, no matter how much you think living in South Korea makes you an expert on the matter.

Here's what I am NOT doing: "refusing to look at the particulars or what meaningful differences in circumstances and degree exist"

Here's my ACTUAL response to that: "Bullying in Japan is a serious problem and must be tackled. The drivers of all social problems are unique to individual countries, therefore the solutions must be too. Obviously.

Here's the funniest part of what what you think I'm doing: "the same logic that white anglos use to pretend racism affects everyone including them?"

Here's my response to that: This is dumb as dogshit. Clearly the closest analogy to what I MIGHT be doing is saying, "hey racism isn't so bad, everyone does it". The fact that you think I'm trying to play victim on behalf of white anglos is so hilariously idiotic I'm having a hard time even comprehending how stupid you'd have to be to try and connect those two threads.


conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


To be fair sitar, the paper you found did suggest there was more bullying occuring in Japan than the US and South Africa. Regardless of proportions of physical/emotional bullying, that does stand.

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Got nothing to do with the 80's though

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


Agreed, but it's a murky answer at best. More instances of bullying in Japan. Worse types of bullying in the US. Does that mean Japanese culture exacerbates the bullying problem?

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>The fact that you think I'm trying to play victim on behalf of white anglos is so hilariously idiotic I'm having a hard time even comprehending how stupid you'd have to be to try and connect those two threads.

because complaining that anecdotes arent scientific enough evidence for you to believe that the problem could be bigger than you think it is, is exactly what they excel at, deflection by the privileged who are more interested in appearing smarter/more righteous than others, than they are in solving or understanding issues, and thats exactly why i keep drawing the parallel :]

studies would be great if ... they were always so easy to conduct. the internet is full of wannabe science-worshippers who believe that studies are the be all end all... they are a tool, a very good one, but not one without limitations, it can be hard to deploy properly in situations where it is culturally ingrained in people that victimhood is shameful and should not be acknowledged or discussed... take a statistics class with a prof who will explain all the nasty little edge cases that can arise in surveying and how careful you have to be with gathering data

sixdegrees
July 16th 2021
11846 Comments


Source?

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


exactly

proofster is a word that was coined for that

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


"Does that mean Japanese culture exacerbates bullying?"

No, it doesn't mean that. Just means there was more bullying recorded in Japan during the study. Why this occured is pure contemplation at this point.

TheSpirit
July 16th 2021
28202 Comments


i should never smoked that shit. now i'm in another argument thread

Digging: Saidan - Jigoku: Spiraling Chasms Of The Blackest Hell

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"because complaining that anecdotes arent scientific enough evidence for you to believe that the problem could be bigger than you think it is, is exactly what they excel at, deflection by the privileged who are more interested in appearing smarter/more righteous than others, than they are in solving or understanding issues, and thats exactly why i keep drawing the parallel :]"

Conversely, using anecdotal evidence as proof of the size of a problem is exactly what white anglos do to complain about how the country is more unsafe than ever before when crime rates have been going down for their entire lifetimes.

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Here's the source https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.830.3627&rep=rep1&type=pdf

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>Conversely, using anecdotal evidence as proof of the size of a problem is exactly what white anglos do to complain about how the country is more unsafe than ever before when crime rates have been going down for their entire lifetimes.

this is a false equivalence unless you assume that statistics about overall "crime rates" are likely to be ** just as shaky due to severe underreporting ** as the ones about bullying (and rape for that matter)

Ryus
July 16th 2021
24808 Comments


https://www.sputnikmusic.com/user/Source

conesmoke
July 16th 2021
6859 Comments


Haha the spirit, I would be asleep if I had smoked. Would be nice actually.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


"crime rates" is kind of a nebulous term but what i'm getting at is that in developed countries, whatever statistics there are on murder, assault, theft, arson, you name it, are probably pretty accurate, there should be no sensible reason to doubt them. so an aggregate thereof is most likely also pretty accurate, there should be no sensible reason to doubt it

on the other hand issues like rape and bullying (i am speaking about both because there is a solid parallel between them, obviously the severity is not always the same although one can include the other, and obviously how they're dealt with by the law is not the same necessarily) they are known to be severely underreported and underinvestigated due to sociocultural reasons... the only people tryharding the "proof? why dont the studies show this?" shit (yea, i wonder why the studies dont show something that is notoriously difficult to study for the same reason that its a fucking problem in the first place) are the ones who would benefit from pretending they dont exist, or the useful idiots theyve managed to convince

you cant draw a solid parallel between something that is relatively accurately reported and studied, and something that is not accurately reported and is thus extremely difficult to study

ChaoticVortex
July 16th 2021
1187 Comments


Kids man...they can be cruel as fuck.

Emim
July 16th 2021
30751 Comments


*List is closed for posting by Moderators*

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"you cant draw a solid parallel between something that is relatively accurately reported and studied, and something that is not accurately reported and is thus extremely difficult to study"

The studies examining cross-national bullying patterns aren't drawing their data from second hand sources and public reporting, so it's not like underreporting is problematic in the way you claim it is.

Emim
July 16th 2021
30751 Comments


You weren't supposed to do that.

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>so it's not like underreporting is problematic in the way you claim it is

lol

cool, guess you know more than the people studying this shit who acknowledge that it is a problem

Donchivo
July 16th 2021
1250 Comments


guys, while I still sense a mild level of disagreement and tension regarding the question whether japanese culture exacerbated bullying in the country or not, it seems like there is no disagreement on that Japanese culture is way less individualist than western culture. it always befuddles me how such an overall conformist culture can to lead to such a high degree of non-conformist, visionary, very individual art that doesn't follow any mold or genre or stereotype. Any thoughts on that?

Digging: Black Land - Extreme Heavy Psych

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


im done with this shit man, of course the argument would take this shape if you go in with the preconceived notion that underreporting is not that big a deal because of one (1) milquetoast study. despite pretty much every sociologist dealing with these topics warning to the contrary

parksungjoon
July 16th 2021
33799 Comments


>it always befuddles me how such an overall culture can to lead to such a high degree of non-conformist, visionary, very individual art that doesn't follow any mold or genre or stereotype. Any thoughts on that?

i think it may be possible that you are simply not that familiar with the "visionary" avant-garde in other places, or you are looking at some of it with the bias inocculated in us by culture that "haha modern art bad and stupid anyone can do that"... there is plenty of interesting "out there" music, and art in general ofc, coming from many different places

toolpeth182
July 16th 2021
289 Comments


holy shit lmao why can nobody ever have a calm and rational discussion on this site?

LeddSledd
July 16th 2021
5670 Comments


@Donchivo maybe it's purely reactionary. there are very few cultures as conformist and rigid as Japan's and, conversely, very few pop cultures as bizarre and expressive as Japan's. They're incredibly conservative on the surface yet have some of the most sexualized medias of any nation. Plus, they existed in near-total isolation for centuries so they had a lot of time to brew their own weird shit. At least that's what I suspect

SitarHero
July 16th 2021
13328 Comments


"cool, guess you know more than the people studying this shit who acknowledge that it is a problem"

LMAO how do you expect anyone to take you seriously if you won't even begin to engage with what they're saying. The question is, is your disingenuousness intentional or are you just so wrapped up in your angry ranting that you're missing every actual point being made?

You're talking about bullying statistics based on reporting that the "one (1) milquetoast study" I cited doesn't rely on. Neither do any of the other ones I have come across. Therefore, underreporting is not as big a problem FOR THOSE STUDIES as you seem to think it is.

But of course you misconstrued that. Pretty par(k) for the course at this point.

LeddSledd
July 16th 2021
5670 Comments


I'm probably dumb generalizing American #1472930 so what so i know

Donchivo
July 16th 2021
1250 Comments


I agree Park... sure there is that kind of stuff in most places. But my impression is that especially in subcultural spheres the share of out there stuff is possibly higher in Japan than in western countries.

Donchivo
July 16th 2021
1250 Comments


@Ledd Sounds plausible to me. I just wonder how it can co exist, the very conservative mainstream with this far out eird shit.

Oh and Coprofago is indeed an interesting band and worthwhile to check out...

SitarHero
July 17th 2021
13328 Comments


A fan account! lmao I'm flattered.

ArsMoriendi
July 17th 2021
34714 Comments


So what I'm getting out of this thread is that Park and Sitar aren't friends

That's my takeaway

Digging: Linda Perhacs - Parallelograms

SitarHero
July 17th 2021
13328 Comments


"So what I'm getting out of this thread is that Park and Sitar aren't friends"

Lol, you might be on to something. We've been feuding since the time he said Led Zeppelin and not Chuck Berry was AC/DC's biggest influence and then followed it up by unironically saying that he listened to Gorguts so he was too smart to enjoy AC/DC or something like that.

Lichtbringer
July 17th 2021
664 Comments


park, you really showed him. so impressed

outliers
July 17th 2021
2582 Comments


be gone, alt

ConcubinaryCode
July 17th 2021
5739 Comments


Coprophagia means they forced others to eat dog shit in case no one else mentioned it here. Seems to be popping off in this thread but yeah Cornelius sounds like a total douche. And he also doesn't seem to have much to say about it or reflect upon which is also kinda dumb. He's not even backing out either so does it really bother him?

dimsim3478
July 17th 2021
8953 Comments


Coprophagia means they forced others to eat dog shit in case no one else mentioned it here.

Doesn't it just mean eating shit in general, and not specifically eating dog shit? Anyway, I think what happened was Cornelius took a shit in the school and forced another kid to eat it.

Sharenge
July 17th 2021
1723 Comments


roflololol kill ur selfs dummyheads

Supercoolguy64
July 17th 2021
10702 Comments


Lol what the fuck. Here in Murica bullying just refers to when kids are assholes to other kids, not make them eat literal shit

Digging: Kalibas/Rune - Kalibas | Rune

Deathconscious
July 17th 2021
26358 Comments


It just refers to the act of eating shit, could be any kind of shit.

Chambered79
July 17th 2021
958 Comments


Park was forced to eat shit at some point in his life guaranteed.

Chambered79
July 17th 2021
958 Comments


"shut the fuck up already, literally no one on this site gives a fuck what you think"

Who cares what you think? You're a fucking idiot.

ConcubinaryCode
July 17th 2021
5739 Comments


My bad it's any type of shit. It's usually brought up when dogs eat it though which is where I got mixed up because seriously, who the fuck makes someone eat shit?

bloc
July 17th 2021
66295 Comments


You ever watch Pink Flamingos?

ConcubinaryCode
July 17th 2021
5739 Comments


That's a little different I think

tinathefatlard
July 18th 2021
1831 Comments


“Bias inocculated in us”

God, what a tool. You also misspelled ‘inoculated’.

CaliggyJack
July 18th 2021
7355 Comments


"...forced to walk around naked in front of other students, and even made to engage in coprophagia by Oyamada."

"and was a bystander in an incident where an older student forced the victim to masturbate in front of them."

What in the holy mother level of fuck

conesmoke
July 18th 2021
6859 Comments


"My bad it's any type of shit. It's usually brought up when dogs eat it though which is where I got mixed up."

Was wondering how you got this mixed up. You're totally right, dogs are our loyal, furry, corpophagic best friends. But they're into it, not bullied into it.

Jamdbz
July 18th 2021
1003 Comments


great thread keep it up

Grungil
July 19th 2021
262 Comments


Yes, hm-hmm, now for the next question
Does emotional music have quite an effect on you?
Do you feel sometimes that age is against you?
Sing and rejoice, yeah, sing and rejoice
Yes, hm-hmm, that's interesting, but tell me
Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?

dimsim3478
July 19th 2021
8953 Comments


UPDATE: he's no longer involved in the opening ceremony. http://natalie.mu/music/news/437575

Egarran
July 19th 2021
23766 Comments


Reminder to all to be excellent to each other

if only for purely selfish reasons

Digging: Ophidian I - Desolate

autoNamed
July 19th 2021
130 Comments


Love seeing the five digit comment counts make fools of themselves

Digging: Abandon [Swe] - In Reality We Suffer

Grungil
July 19th 2021
262 Comments


As a hentai aficcionado, this kind of articles dont surprise me. Corpophagic is quite common behind closed doors in the land of the rising sun. Anyway, all this hype made me listen to "Fantasma", 20 years since last time. Still a great album, i must say.

Brabiz
July 19th 2021
1430 Comments


Idk this dude, but this is genuinely fucked. Makes me sad.



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