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A lot has happened since the release of Brand New’s presumed swan song, Science Fiction.  Released just about one year ago (August 17, 2017), the record was initially received to widespread acclaim.  It shot to #1 on the Billboard chart, a first in band history despite nonchalantly dropping the album – unannounced – after an eight year absence.  It garnered rave reviews.  Noisey published an article entitled I Will Fight for Brand New to Be Crowned the Best Band of a Generation.  Pitchfork named it Best New Music.  The list of accomplishments go on and on.  We all know how fleeting that success was though; Brand New’s legacy came to a screeching halt on November 10th when allegations of sexual misconduct arose against front man Jesse Lacey, which were all but confirmed by him a day later when he issued a lengthy response that vaguely acknowledged wrongdoing ( “I am sorry for how I have hurt people, mistreated them, lied, and cheated…”), spoke on the help he has sought since the time of those actions (the claims are from when he was 24…Lacey is now 40), and spoke on repentance (“The fact remains that none of us get to put a wall up between who we are and who we were.  I need to earn forgiveness”).  Then, just like the eight years that led up to Science Fiction, the band went radio silent.  And so did most of their fans.

So why dredge this topic up again?  It’s not to force victims to relive their anguish, and it’s definitely not to pardon Lacey.  A lot can be learned about an artist through her/his faults.  Anyone who heard how tortured Lacey sounded during the group’s crowning achievement, 2006’s The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me, can infer that a passion so fiery and demeanor so burdened are not feigned.  In other words, it’s obvious that Lacey was messed up.  It didn’t take Daisy three years later to confirm that he had already resigned his fate to total damnation (“I’m on my way to hell”).  At the time, the two albums were hailed as artistic statements achieved through unprecedented growth…but perhaps there was a little more to it.  After all, it’s not like Lacey’s outlook was nearly as bleak on any of the albums that came beforehand.  Something changed him.

Lacey’s misconduct at the age of 24 places us back in 2002-2003, or approximately around the release of their breakout sophomore record Deja Entendu.  That album skyrocketed Brand New’s popularity, and placed them all over MTV, late night talk shows, alternative radio stations, and the like.  Deja was witty and full of tongue-in-cheek self-depreciation, but it’s clear that Lacey was still as confident as ever – a far cry from the bleak depression of every Brand New album that followed.   The impact of fame, especially on young adults who may not know how to cope with it, is not always good – in fact, it is almost ubiquitously negative.  Lacey clearly did not handle his quick rise to stardom very well, nor with the sense of stewardship and responsibility that one should.  That’s why he – and deserved or not, his fellow bandmates – find themselves in their current predicament.

It’s important to tread lightly here, because in no way is my intention to excuse Jesse’s actions or take the attention away from the victims.  With that said, the purpose of this article is to take a closer look at the burden of transgression, the journey that is self-improvement, and the possibility of forgiveness – not from others, but for oneself.  Because even though we are under no obligation to forgive Lacey – and quite frankly, you should still be mad – there comes a certain point where endless berating does more harm than good.  Nobody is infallible, and while certain acts are most definitely worse than others, we all deserve – if not forgiveness – a chance to be left alone so that we can look ourselves in the mirror and, maybe one day, come to peace with ourselves.

As I previously alluded to, the stark contrast between Deja Entendu and The Devil and God was very likely much more than just a stylistic revolution.  Lacey internalized everything and poured it into his music – from the deaths of various family members/close friends to questions about mortality.  No matter how high you are on your own success and virtual scene-God syndrome, you know that 24 and 15 doesn’t add up.  Caving to his addictions, Lacey continued to act against his better judgment.  ‘Millstone’ drops some very telling verses, from the plain-in-hindsight “I used to know the name of every person I kissed / Now I made this bed and I can’t fall asleep in it” to the more difficult to discern “running from that mistake” at the end of the bridge around 2:40 in.  The opening stanza to ‘Jesus Christ’ puts Lacey’s guilt front and center: “If they don’t put me away, well, it’ll be a miracle.”  If you are feeling a bit nauseated in revisiting these lines, you aren’t the only one.  However, it’s clear that Lacey felt regret over his sins the whole time.  Whereas Deja Entendu‘s ‘Me vs. Maradona vs. Elvis’ casually talks about blatant misconduct, there’s nothing like that on The Devil and God.  You can, however, feel the weight of his previous decisions hanging around his neck like heavy chains – this burden he’s forced to carry because he’s too damn afraid to tell the truth to his family, friends, and fans.  We all know what it’s like to have a dark secret.  This was Jesse’s, and it was bad enough that he knew his spiritual well-being was at stake.  In his open letter to Jesus, he laments “I know you’re coming for the people like me.”

In addition to the [deserved] crippling guilt, there’s another aspect to Lacey’s songwriting that became all too apparent post-allegation(s).  He is fixated – nay, obsessed – with the idea of a “day of reckoning”; this moment when everything comes crashing down and puts an end to it all.  In the moment – pre-allegation – it was always assumed that Jesse’s religious upbringing was showing its colors with themes of biblical revelations, or the apocalypse.  That may still be the case, but part of me thinks that there’s another explanation that is far more personal, but just as dark.  On ‘Degausser’, he cautions that “the storm is coming”, but that is a mere precursor to the sort of imagery that Daisy brings forth.  Three years later, Jesse can still be heard suffering within his own mind, only this time screaming for his immortal soul.  It’s most obvious within the record’s overall aesthetics: it simply sounds dead inside.  Lyrically Lacey expounds upon the idea of all things ending: on ‘Vices’ the forest burns; on the third bridge of ‘At The Bottom’ he wails, “I stole bricks from the dam almost every day, now I’m drowning in the flood I made / Explain myself to me on the other side, I’m gonna want some answers when I die”; on ‘Daisy’ he details feeling trapped with his sins – “I’m a fugitive that has no legs to run” – as well as an overwhelming desire for cleansing, “If the sky opened up and started pouring rain, like he knew it was time to start things over again / It’d be all right, it’s all right…it’d be easier that way.”  Indeed, the album is a tornado of self-damnation that culminates in Noro’s recognizable chorus of “I’m on my way to hell.”  Still, he seems predisposed to accepting that fate as opposed to facing his transgressions head-on in the real world.

This brings us full circle to Science Fiction, and I assure you I’m going somewhere with this so bear with me.  But first, it’s necessary to explain what I feel has always been a prophetic nature in Brand New’s music and Lacey’s lyrics.  It’s interesting how Jesse predicted future events surrounding himself and the band, unbeknownst to him at the time of writing the song.  Take ‘Soco Amaretto Lime’ for example, the closing track of the band’s 2000 debut Your Favorite Weapon, where Lacey sings endearingly about his youth, “We’re gonna stay 18 forever.”  Fast forward to the present day, where the band has almost certainly met its demise – whether as a result of the misconduct or by their own planned disbandment – and you have a music group that will, quite literally, be 18 forever.  The eerie factoid that I want to focus on, though, comes from Science Fiction‘s slow burning opener, ‘Lit Me Up’ –  a track that I actually believe presents a [somewhat] real possibility Lacey knew in advance that he was about to be outed.  We don’t know everything that goes on behind the scenes – it’s possible that contact with some of these  victims was ramping up again, perhaps initiated by them in a way that he felt threatened by.  Maybe they felt emboldened and empowered in knowing that people would finally hear them out thanks to Me Too.  Maybe former guitar tech Brian Diaz had a beef with Lacey (if so, understandably) and somehow Lacey caught wind of the fact that he was going to stir things up.   I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory (and yeah, there’s a 99% chance it is), but just read these lyrics and decide for yourself.  Even if he didn’t know, it’s at least another set of lyrics that turned out to be chillingly prophetic.  Lacey openly talks about burning like a witch in a Puritan town, and then goes down months later as part of said #metoo movement, which many detractors still refer to as “a witch hunt.”

It lit me up and I burned from the inside out
Yeah, I burned like a witch in a Puritan town
It lit me…
It was a good dream

Note the final line.  Considering how long Lacey tortured himself over his actions – it would make sense that he would actually be relieved to finally pay for his crimes.  After all, the weight of being alone with his thoughts and sins for nearly two decades was clearly eating away at him, at least if the music he created for the better part of his career serves as even the slightest indicator.   If he was writing about a dream in which he got exposed for his actions, that last line makes it sound like he wanted it to happen because it would be a burden lifted, that stone finally removed from around his neck…and he could finally move on from his guilt.  There’s a certain liberation that comes from setting the truth free, even if it means that you have to finally own up to your actions.

Earlier in this article, I stated that it would be about “the burden of transgression, the journey that is self-improvement, and the possibility of forgiveness – not from others, but for oneself.”  Right now it probably feels like we’ve strayed from that message, but I beg you to look closer.  The burden of Lacey’s acts has been a part of who he is for the last 16 years, maybe even longer.  The journey of overcoming those horrid decisions and that wicked, deceitful lifestyle has come double fold – (1) in cathartic healing through music and (2) finding out what true love and responsibility is through marriage and fatherhood.  Has he forgiven himself?  We can’t possibly know the answer to that, but I’d still venture a guess at “no.”  Jesse knows that he’s damaged the lives of several young women, possibly including others that we are not aware of.  He’s betrayed the trust of so many fans.  Still, I take solace in a couple little things.  The Jesse Lacey of 2018 is not the same person that basically committed grooming in 2002.  Rather than, in essence, bragging about sexual misdeeds (again, Me vs. Maradona vs. Elvis), he writes lyrics that show remorse and a desire to stop hurting others, even if it means “burning from the inside out.”   Maybe I’m putting way too much stock in lyrics…after all, this has not a damn thing to do with the music anymore.   Still, trying to find hope for someone that you once looked up to like nobody else in the music industry somehow gives me hope as well.  Views change, and people can improve on toxic attitudes that they never even knew they had until they were cut deep enough for them to bleed on out.

Certain things are meant to burn.





SowingSeason
08.04.18
I think this is what I meant to say in that little thread last November ;-)

This is a combination of coming to terms with things, concocting some rather crazy theories, forgiving Lacey, getting angry again, and reconciling it all with some notes on life.

I hope you all don't flame me too hard for this.

Green Baron
08.04.18
dammit I thought we let this topic die already

Green Baron
08.04.18
also that "Lit Me Up" analysis is a lot of reaching

SowingSeason
08.04.18
Of course it is. I admitted as much in the article.

nolerthebowler
08.04.18
We’d all be lying if we said we didn’t love music from artists in confessional booths rather than recording booths. It’s part of the reason music is so fucking important.

DrGonzo1937
08.04.18
Great read, Sow. Touchy subject for sure, but you handled it well and was a nice insight.

ButtBoy
08.04.18
Great post. I'd like to think all these lyrics were interpreted as they were meant when he wrote them.

SowingSeason
08.04.18
Thanks. I was really going for an angle that focused on the music and toed the line between the sense of betrayal while still offering a willingness to forgive (or at least let go). I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out. I know a lot of it is speculative nonsense too but those sort of lyrical conspiracies are interesting to me.

Pheromone
08.04.18
Yeah, seperate from some far-fetched lyrical, or more context, analysis (in particular with Lit Me Up), this is a really great write up which I agree with quite significantly. It's clear that his lyricism was always centered around the guilt that he feels. Whether related to these events or not, you can sense a dehabilitating guilt throughout the lyrics on the latter albums and I definitely think it's related.

'It's never going to stop...
Batter Up' =(



nolerthebowler
08.04.18
“You and I are stuck like glue, and that’s the god damn truth.”

“So afraid, I prayed and prayed, and God told me to love the bomb.”

“We were young once before, and we know how they get their way.”

“For the good of all men, hold me down underwater, and don’t let me up again.”

“I’m hoping that in time you can lay down, all this weight that you’ve been carrying around. And maybe one day, you’ll find your way to climb on up out of your grave with the bits of you you’ve managed to save. And for the last time, you say goodbye.”

Other lyrics that have gained emotional weight to me since the allegations



theacademy
08.04.18
uhhh...

Ponton
08.04.18
just my thoughts, and im sure someone has already repeated this somewhere:

It's very human to deny guilt until faced with an accusation, and even further deny it if the accusation isn't accepted by the accused. It's also very human to live and act with no guilt at all about such events if the individual is so desensitized and insensitive to his or her transgressions. I think this was the largely the case with Lacey. Any possible "guilt" he felt that showed in his lyrics prior to the accusations was merely subconscious and possibly not even evident to himself at the time at all. Quite possible he never felt guilt about it all. He is just a human. Obviously, he felt guilty after being confronted, as many would, and he admitted it. But my point is, I doubt we were any more surprised of the news than he was when the reality of it set in. Personally, I wouldn't look too hard into his lyrics for evidence of his guilt and such. I doubt the band wpuld have revived and then suddenly go silent if this was always in the back of his mind.

SowingSeason
08.04.18
Fair enough, and you may very well be right...there's no way to argue convincingly for or against the level of guilt he felt...only Jesse knows. This article is admittedly subjective speculation, which I (hopefully) did not try to sell as much more. Either way, I do appreciate you taking time to read the article and reflect.

bgillesp
08.05.18
I agree somewhat here. Awesome and well handled write up regardless of your opinion though. Personally it feels like you're trying too hard to save him in your head (which I completely get, if Devin Towsend had allegations, I'd look for anything to prove it wasn't as bad as it was). That being said, you handled that well in the writing of this and that's not a criticism of you, just my own opinion. I'm so glad my favorite artists have steered clear of allegations (except Mike Fuentes I guess). I can't imagine having to deal with the shattering of your hero's image. Again, that being said, that is nothing compared to what the victims of the events went through, which you also did a good job handling. Touchy and difficult subject, this

AdolfChrist
08.05.18
"Released just about one year ago"

I cant fucking believe this.

BlackTaxi2d
08.05.18
all these liberals that got caught by the #metoo thing. so fitting and deserved.

Frippertronics
08.05.18
"all these liberals that got caught by the #metoo thing. so fitting and deserved."

what does someone's political stance have to do with the person in question being guilty or not?

Frippertronics
08.05.18
like I know you're most likely baiting but w/e

bgillesp
08.05.18
Don't feed the trolls

Winesburgohio
08.05.18
i will say this for Lacey: he recognised he had a problem and sought treatment for it before the public lambasting. i can't remember a similar instance of that across the movement.

that said if u don't offer restorative justice or something to your victims/survivors as part of their healing process, especially given their vulnerability, that's a pretty glaring omission, though whether that's because of a broader societal refusal to even acknowledge rape culture and what's required or his own personal wanting to distance himself from it it's impossible to say.

whether the thesis of this argument is true or not, cryptic and codified allusions don't equate to restoration, or even an apology. i know from experience that that kind of acknowlegment of ones transgressions takes time, but he's had over a decade. it's just not adequate.

bgillesp
08.05.18
Would anything ever be considered enough? Sowing is arguing it's a question of whether people should let him move on which is different

Winesburgohio
08.05.18
as articulated reaching out to the victims/survivors and engaging in restorative justice would have been a good sign and enough. i retain the belief that people can and do change in wonderful ways after perpetrating terrible things; this isn't the case i would use as an example for the afore-mentioned reason

someguest
08.05.18
Good write-up, Sowing. I think Lacey has always struggled with these desires, and they haven't gone away; he just doesn't act on them anymore. Rock n' roll 'stars' have slept with underage girls from the genre's beginnings, whether intentional or not. It's rampant activity that I'm sure still exists.

Darius the Great
08.05.18
Nice job.
Wow i haven't listened to brand new basically at all this year

SowingSeason
08.05.18
I totally agree Wines; fixing yourself is only half the battle. It will be interesting to see if he ever reaches out to the victims (if so, I find it unlikely to be a public event). I think that's the only way I could get behind more music from them. But as it stands he's done more than most people in the movement who got caught - enough for me to not hurl additional stones his way - but not enough to say, "you deserve to continue to have a platform as an artist and I'd happily accept new material." That's sort of a moot point anyway because I think the band wanted to end things regardless, but it would be nice to see him attempt to make things right with the people who've been impacted the most in all this.

To be honest though my main point in writing this wasn't even to rehash everything (even though I did to a large extent and certainly expected the conversation to lean this way), I just found it interesting (1) how the lyrics sound now in hindsight, (2) how they possibly show TDAG/Daisy/SF as more than just an artistic leap, but a tonal shift born out of severe guilt and depression, and (3) to theorize some pretty nutty lyrical prophesies that came chillingly true. In my head it was more of "a look behind the curtain at the artist" than "hey remember this shitty thing." Unavoidably, it's probably a little bit of both.

nolerthebowler
08.05.18
Yeah what someguest said reminds me of the movie Almost Famous, the fucked up desires Jesse dealt with are 100% not exclusive to Jesse

SowingSeason
08.05.18
Yeah what someguest is also true. It doesn't make lesser offenses such as this OK, but it's worth noting that things like this have been going on for decades and were either accepted, or kept quiet through payoffs/hush money, etc. And that's where the societal changes come into play. Things that were once overlooked as "well, that's just part of the game" are now being called what they are. It's a good thing for sure, we're just feeling the rift of those changes.

Conmaniac
08.06.18
really well done sowing, def agree a lot of these lyrics are probably moreso subconscious than him trying to battle this head-on. ive learned a lot about myself through writing lyrics myself, even stuff I didn't ever consider about myself. hope Jesse has taken steps to apologize and right his wrongs but I think that's a fairly private matter and something that may never be publicized.

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
One would think that after all the heinously moronic shit that you said while this was all going down last year you'd know when to call it quits on the topic of Jesse Lacey. Fucking die hard I guess

SowingSeason
08.06.18
Guess people can't grow can they. Next time I'll be sure to check with the most infallible of users before exercising a basic right to reflect.

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
I mean for not excusing him you sure have gone to great lengths to eulogize him and scrutinize his lyrics for some tenuous deeper meaning. Call me fallible if you want but be sure to let me know when you catch me victim blaming. And as for growing and changing, a year later you're still fellating the guy and putting him on a pedestal so don't kid yourself.

bgillesp
08.06.18
I don't see anything wrong with lamenting the loss of a hero's image. The stuff last year wasn't Sowing's best moment but he admitted it, thoroughly apologized and has attempted to make amends while working on his own views of the issue. To hate this piece for what he said a year ago is silly. If you don't want to admit his work may have artistic merit because of what he's done, that's fine, it's your choice, but sowing isn't condoning his actions here.

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Worst fucking trend in our society rn is fucking FAN blaming!! I’m sorry but sowing is allowed to like music that he likes, and he can write whatever the hell he wants.

Act like youve never supported a controversial artist before...

Conmaniac
08.06.18
fan blaming but there is something to be said about fans ignoring / excusing the actions of the artists they like, something seen a lot still with XXX stans (not saying Sowing is in anyway doing this tho)

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Personally I even think xxx fans have a right to mourn

Conmaniac
08.06.18
mourn but not excuse all of the bad shit he did. the whole "xxx was innocent" stuff makes me cringe and I still see it all over today

bgillesp
08.06.18
Mourn yes, but deny that he wasn't a very good person, different question

bgillesp
08.06.18
Con said it better

Conmaniac
08.06.18
i like how u said it tho too (:

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Yeah that’s totally different. But everyone was just treating everyone like assholes with the xxx thing no matter what you thought.

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
The xxx thread was a whole lotta toxicity both ways

Rigma
08.06.18
maybe if the blog post is long enough and if i add just the right amount of superlatives people might think i'm not a fucking idiot

SowingSeason
08.06.18
So I'm a fucking idiot? Cool to know.

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
You mean your parents never told you? Geez, Rig you must feel like an asshole right now

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Man brand new was always such an important relatable band to me, I just dont get why people think its such a simple thing to let go of an artist that literally helped u survive ur formative years? It is simply not about Jesse AT ALL

Tyler.
08.06.18
@sowing

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
for me as a fan that is listening to the music of brand new that is

Rigma
08.06.18
"It is simply not about Jesse AT ALL" hmmmmmmmmmm

bgillesp
08.06.18
Yeah, I have the same thing with Pierce the Veil, band got me through so much, then I find out the drummer is a bit of a sleaze who caused some harm. I can't not love their music for what it has been for me. I still like the work he produced, but things are under a different light now. I feel like I would have the right to write about how that affected my feelings on their music. I can do that without condoning Mike's actions towards the victims

FourthReich
08.06.18
overblown

FourthReich
08.06.18
great piece though

Rigma
08.06.18
seriously sowing, i get that you'll take lacey's dignity to the grave with you but at this rate everything after the scifi thread debacle is just going to plummet you down further. in some twisted way it's comforting to know that he's been haunted by his actions, but that can't change the past, and that's the only point here

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Everything feels completely different now, if I could take science fiction and literally give it to another band I would do it in a heartbeat, but the fact remains that the album I fell in love with BEFORE the accusations, is still an album made by brand new, and what the fuck am I supposed to do to change that? Change my taste in music? So no, me listening to brand new has nothing to do with Jesse, its about my own damn self!

bgillesp
08.06.18
Your last sentence is the point he made here, isn't it

FourthReich
08.06.18
man sowing is a huge goober and was well before last year. admittedly we have not always seen eye to eye but he's a great dude and an amazing writer. i have no idea why anyone would give flack to a person that loves this band as much as he does-and has so eloquently described and owned up to his feeling/actions. i think this is a really great insight into internal struggle someone endures when an idol falls from grace. maybe because he's a mod so everyone pays close attention to what he says, but what happened last year was so far from a big deal. you all sound like babies

FourthReich
08.06.18
hard and unnecessary

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
totally unnecessary

FourthReich
08.06.18
maybe im a huge piece of shit or maybe i just really don't look up to people, but this whole incident never change my enjoyment of the album nor did it stop me from buying the record. to this day i don't care

bgillesp
08.06.18
I care and it affects my listen, but only in a personal way. It doesn't make the album different but how I hear it is a bit more disappointed because of its circumstances. All the memories and feelings I had before accusations are still there, it just has another layer now that isn't so positive

FourthReich
08.06.18
understandable man

bgillesp
08.06.18
In a more concise form. Past feelings I have of music are unchanged by future events or accusations, but another layer that is likely very different may get added. I think that's what sowing was saying here too. He was discussing not the new layer that includes some of the disappointment/whatever and also includes a new interpretation of lyrics.

bgillesp
08.06.18
Discussing the*
Not shouldnt be in there

bgillesp
08.06.18
Also, how heavy the past and future layers weigh relative to each other is different for everyone and under each different circumstance

SowingSeason
08.06.18
"All the memories and feelings I had before accusations are still there, it just has another layer now that isn't so positive"

This.

To Rigma and Zippa, all I'll say is I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling the way that you do. You can continue to bury me for something I said a year ago if you want, and attempt to shame anyone else from discussing the band. Personally I don't hold people to higher standards than I do for myself though. I'd certainly not want to be blackballed the rest of my life for saying something out of line, so I don't do that to others. Live, learn, and don't repeat your mistakes. That's all anyone can do.

FourthReich
08.06.18
i think he it trying to come to grips with the fact that he supported a guy he definitely wouldn't support now had he been given this info 16 years ago. a bit of juxtaposing the fan guilt experience with his idol's guilt.

bgillesp
08.06.18
Maybe. And maybe our own feelings come through in our readings of it too. I'm sure mine certainly colored my reading

Rigma
08.06.18
it's a mistake, yes, and it should be forgotten. but continuing to prod the source of the mistake won't make it any easier for people to forget

SowingSeason
08.06.18
"it's a mistake, yes, and it should be forgotten. but continuing to prod the source of the mistake won't make it any easier for people to forget"

I think this is where perceived intentions vs actual intentions are getting crossed. My intention was to reflect upon the matter in a more mature, informed fashion than I did when I posted from my phone 5 mins after reading about it with no details or facts (like an idiot, but people are stupid when they let their emotions get the best of them). I was hoping the line "Views change, and people can improve on toxic attitudes that they never even knew they had" would have jumped out more, but I probably didn't expound on my own personal journey enough to make myself clear. I didn't want to article to be about me though, I wanted it to shed light on various aspects of the music with the additional perspective of his transgressions. If the goal is to simply forget, then yes, maybe I should not have written this. However, I think confronting toxic thoughts and actions head-on after having a year to digest is better than nothing.

bgillesp
08.06.18
I see where that comes from but I don't thing we (as a whole) should try to forget unpleasant things. Keeping the discussion alive may help prevent similar occurrences in the future. I could be wrong but that's how I see it

bgillesp
08.06.18
Anyways, I'm outta here. Forewarning in case anyone wants a response out of me

Thrust!
08.06.18
Sowing, I love you.

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
I also have much love for the season of sow

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
"i think he it trying to come to grips with the fact that he supported a guy he definitely wouldn't support now had he been given this info 16 years ago."

Fuck that, this is one big vicarious apology letter in a desperate attempt to paint over the cracks. Because it bothers him TREMENDOUSLY that people would view his idol in a negative light.

"You can continue to bury me for something I said a year ago if you want"
I do want. If this was in any way a credible website you wouldn't be an administrator anymore. But since this is the sub-basement of music journalism, I'll just have to stick to my guns. And sure, maybe your words have changed but you're still peddling bullshit excuses albeit in a more eloquent way.

"attempt to shame anyone else from discussing the band."
I listened to a Daisy like yesterday. Who gives a shit honestly. They already had one foot in the grave. It was like shooting a man in the head right after you've switched off life support. There's an army of people who still like Brand New. Fucking get a grip dude, Jesse Lacey sucks it's not the end of the world.



nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Get lost

Rigma
08.06.18
"My intention was to reflect upon the matter in a more mature, informed fashion than I did when I posted from my phone 5 mins after reading about it with no details or facts (like an idiot, but people are stupid when they let their emotions get the best of them)."
this would be perfectly viable if you didn't spend the next few days on end defending it with a supposedly more rational mind, no? i get the intention of this article but i think it's far too late for its own good

SowingSeason
08.06.18
Zippa, I said multiple times in my article that what he did is inexcusable lol. But there's just no pleasing you, so I'll move on.

Conmaniac
08.06.18
this article isnt about sowing tho guys ur just making it about him

Darius the Great
08.06.18
rip sowing

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Zippa, all your favorite artists are all these super fucked up sounding metal bands, but yeah I guarantee all of them are completely innocent people who just want to worship Satan in peace

SowingSeason
08.06.18
"if you didn't spend the next few days on end defending it with a supposedly more rational mind"

I don't remember this being the case as I almost immediately apologized, that same night. But yeah I mean I get it man, you can certainly feel this article is too little too late (I'd even agree). I expected many to dislike this article so I'm not surprised and I respect the disagreement fully. I just hope you realize my intention is not to justify anything, only to reflect on things a year removed.

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
And if you hate this website so much gtfo

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
Sowing WROTE the article Con, keep up ffs

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Hey zippa hows that album called Exetremely Fucking Dead? A bit too PC for me tbh

Rigma
08.06.18
i can get where you're coming from in that sense, and i'm glad we could make a bit of middle ground. sorry for calling you an idiot bubs, i realized that was too low the second i posted it

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Rigma is the hero zippa deserves

SowingSeason
08.06.18
It's all cool man, water under the bridge. Sorry if I stoked any flames by writing this

Conmaniac
08.06.18
zip take note from rigma and try to keep up as well

nolerthebowler
08.06.18
Also in defense of sowing he totally hesitated posting this until me and a few others told him it was totally fine to do so

Rigma
08.06.18
if i can be frank i'm just sick of the topic in general lmao, then again it's my fault for letting myself into the threads in the first place. think i'll stick to the lists and the digging and what have you

ZippaThaRippa
08.06.18
Hey man I'm cleaning my kitchen I can only respond like once every ten minutes, sheesh

Thrust!
08.06.18
...wait your name is Frank? That's pretty awesome actually.

Tyler.
08.06.18
hey

RobertZDar
08.06.18
Imagine still thinking about this band in 2018.

hal1ax
08.06.18
hey

Bloon
08.06.18
hey :]

platnum
08.06.18
This could be a fun read

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
"Imagine still thinking about this band in 2018."

thankfully i dont have to imagine, i still jam Science Fiction and Daisy a lot. its a good time.

ButtBoy
08.07.18
wow this turned into a shit show.
"thankfully i dont have to imagine, i still jam Science Fiction and Daisy a lot. its a good time." [2]

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
[3] except just Sci-Fi cuz Daisy is boring as balls

ButtBoy
08.07.18
bruh. how can you listen to songs like Gasoline, Bought a Bride, and Noro and tell me that shit boring

SowingSeason
08.07.18
Daisy is probably their most thrilling album. And their 2nd best (tied) with SF.

ButtBoy
08.07.18
yeah, it literally has two songs that i could possibly see people calling "boring"

SowingSeason
08.07.18
bed and bought a bride IMO

I know most people would say Be Gone but I find that track eerily interesting...even better with the decoded lyrics

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
Gasoline is gas

idk daisy just doesn't connect with me much which is why it bores me, its definitely got their heaviest songs

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
be gone is one of the most interesting things ab the album to me honestly

ButtBoy
08.07.18
I love Be Gone, I could also see people getting bored with You Stole but I think it's fantastic

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
i hate jesses fake country accent throughout that album tho ugh, thats probly what killed it for me

Storm In A Teacup
08.07.18
Jesse cashed in on his guilt tho with the music and became even more worshipped by girls and music elitists. Showing remorse that earned him more money and critical acclaim. Performed Jesus on half the late night shows. His remorse was still self serving whether intentional or not but as introspective as he can be...

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
yeah thats my biggest struggle too, cashing in on very well deserved guilt is definitely fucked up and not doing the victims any favors

Storm In A Teacup
08.07.18
Pretty much settles it for me

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
i wish i could steal Sci-Fi from jesse... give it to like Manchester Orchestra or even like frank ocean... someone whose ass I dont want to beat every time I hear the music

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
it really is a shame that sci-fi is like the best album of this decade

ButtBoy
08.07.18
I'm glad we can at least agree on that

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
I dont really see it as cashing in on guilt. Hes a musician, is he supposed to write about things hes not invested in to make sure hes not "cashing in on guilt"?

ButtBoy
08.07.18
exactly, like what are you supposed to do? literally quit your whole career because you feel guilty? this is the life of a musician

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
Also i think its funny how ever since this whole thing came out, everyone assumes all his songs are about guilt over how he treated these girls. Seems incredibly narrow sighted.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
it is in fact possible to write songs about not feeling sorry for yourself

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
and i feel like thats what he finally did with sci-fi, stopped trying to fight off his demons and instead just accepted that they are his to keep

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
Based on my experience, a lot of the time people think a song is about one thing and then the musician will come out and say its about something completely different. So are any of these songs about the girls he treated like shit? Maybe, maybe not. Also a lot of shit happens in a person's life, so to assume that all these songs are about this one thing thats now been made public, again, seems narrow sighted.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
so hes just guilty about shitty things hes done that we dont know about then, thats not much better

im just saying the position that he was in, writing songs about ur own mental and moral instability is in incredibly poor taste

when you commit heinous crimes you dont get to feel bad about urself

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
the reason sci-fi is amazing isnt just cuz hes letting go of his guilt, its good cuz hes letting go of his entire musical career

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
when he says it was a good dream in lit me up, i got the feeling he was talking about his 18 years as the frontman of brand new being the dream he is referring to

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
"im just saying the position that he was in, writing songs about ur own mental and moral instability is in incredibly poor taste"

Lo that is ridiculous, dude. "You did something fucked up, you dont get to write about your personal demons!"

Wut

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
Lol*

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
"so hes just guilty about shitty things hes done that we dont know about then, thats not much better"

i never said its better or worse, thats not the point.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
TDAG has changed from a relatable album about depression from what seemed like an average guy (one of the main appeals of BN, he always felt like just ur typical dude) to an album that I cant relate to at all because the feelings he portrays on that album serve him fucking right.

I mean ur right he has the right to make the album I’m not saying that, but it’s still tasteless and I have the right to think it makes him a douche

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
"I cant relate to at all because the feelings he portrays on that album serve him fucking right."

i get that, but to say that hes a douche for writing about personal demons seems pretty ridiculous to me. like should he have dedicated the rest of his career to writing about the people he fucked over? would that have been more acceptable? i just dont see how its "poor taste" to write about your personal demons regardless of what youve done, it doesnt make sense to me.

Conmaniac
08.07.18
this is still all under the assumption that TDAG is in fact about the victims, and while I think there's some subconscious value to that it's main lyrical theme is putting himself in the shoes of the drunk driver that killed that flower girl. separate art from artist man

sixdegrees
08.07.18
hey @sowing

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
this is the one artist that I cannot separate from the art. i know thats what ur supposed to do but i cant cuz im still fucking pissed at jesse

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
and i know that theres more to tdag than his underlying guilt, its a super fleshed out album after all. but nothing is gonna make it sit well with me anymore, its just too late. its just creepy, it even was before allegations

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
like now that we know jesse isnt ur average dude, the album cover of tdag is absolutely terrifying

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
its so hard to not take what jesse did personally when now at least once a week I'll get called a pedophile sympathizer simply for bringing up jesses name, or listening to sci-fi. its fucking bullshit and its all jesses fault

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
being mad at a total stranger is pretty dumb, tbh. are you actively mad at every single person in the world who does shitty things? seems like a waste of energy. and people calling you a pedophile sympathizer for bringing him up or listening to Sci Fi isnt his fault. the people throwing those labels around have the issue. and are these people you know/meet in real life, or are you talking about sputnik? because if its just on sputnik, you really need to learn to care less about trivial shit.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
I mean I grew up with their music, they were my favorite band for 5 years straight. Maybe I didnt know him personally but their music changed my life?

It sounds like I’m wildin but Ive never really come to terms with the situation

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
*I'm

FourthReich
08.07.18
Noler are you 12? Sounds like your friends are in middle school. I don't know a single person who's heard of this band or would care enough to call me a pedophile sympathizer. That's a bold claim in it's own right when the age of consent in most states is 16.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
whatever. i cant imagine why any fan in their right mind wouldnt feel betrayed by jesse.

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
and yeah maybe its petty but hell yeah im talking about sputnik comment sections. just look at the people flaming sowing yesterday for nothing. anyone who openly supports brand new gets brutalised

AdolfChrist
08.07.18
Because he hasnt done anything to me, this isnt about me, and ive never met the guy. Why would i feel betrayed, he doesnt owe me shit.

iglu
08.07.18
I agree with hitler over here

nolerthebowler
08.07.18
honestly, i never really know what I truly think about the situation 95% of the time, so forgive me if i jumped to any conclusions that werent entirely thought out.

but i don't feel bad that jesse doesn't get good marks in the test of life anymore

FourthReich
08.07.18
Lol taking comments from uses seriously

Storm In A Teacup
08.10.18
It's also important to consider that it is okay to rebuke a hero from your past. Considering the timing of adoration and the misdeeds took place within such a close maybe we can say we were wrong and it is okay to remove our investment. How can you remove an investment already given and already spent? By saying you were wrong in taste? Doesn't seem fair. Does this senseless rambling do enough to provoke thought or does it just provoke sowing?

Storm In A Teacup
08.10.18
*close time, maybe we

FreddieDelaney31
08.13.18
bill cosby innocent !!!!!

Feather
08.17.18
I missed that you posted this! Great read sowing!

reverbman
10.14.18
Since I'm on this soo coool app caleld Tik Tok I really enjoy to make videos. I recently became very famous using the best tool, so you can earn your tik tok free fans here.

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