Good luck enforcing that these "standards"... :rolleyes:This Message Edited On 04.24.07

if we can't say 'ho' anymore......

*long pause*

the terrorists have won.This Message Edited On 04.24.07

she was a ho...

fo...shoooo....

They just started allowing the of saying bitch a few years ago I thought?

not a day too fucking soon either!!! the whole mysogyny thing is one of the many reasons why i hate most modern rap.

also, if anyone's seen the clip of dylan moran going on about why he doesn't like rap, i'd say i completely agree with him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0t-U_yOCY there it is.

It's tricky; I don't like hearing those words, but I reckon loads of people will consider censoring music (art form) as wrong. I dunno. I really wish it wasn't so fashionable to try and butch it up by adding "ho"

And what's St. Nicolas gonna do?

Personally I don't see any reason why someone would need to sing about "bitches" and "ho's" anyways. I mean, what does it do for anyone other than the soul fact of its degradation towards the subject? Music isn't supposed to be about how many modern slang words you can fit into a verse or how many music videos you can make with a group of half naked women dancing in it while calling them "ho's" and saying they want you for sex and your money and your 'bling'. I personally don't care how many gin & cokes some dude can consume or how many cars he has or how much fake money he can throw around in a music video while attempting to make up a damn song to go with it. Half of the music these guys write is bought off of someone with a beat making program anyways. Maybe I should go out and buy Fruity Loops and write a degrading poem to say over top of it and tell people I'm throwing money around and see how much cash will roll in afterwards.

Modern popular culture is sickening. What happened to real talent and actual MUSIC?

I totally agree masonthenile.

Yeah cause no one's ever said that before. ^^^

Everyone is convinced they have the answer...

Meh.

That Dylan Moran thing is pretty cool; brilliant comedian.

This is every bit as stupid as the lyrics themselves.

I have a very absolutist view of censorship, and this is bullshit. Pretending these words don't exist won't make them go away.

Well put, Steerpike. Simmons needs to chill out, if you ask me. He's promoted plenty of abrasive hip-hop artists in the past.

Masonthenile, I strongly agree with what you are saying. As much as I don't appreciate rap and hip-hop culture, I dont think they should be limited in what they can say. The words "Ho" and "Bitch" have lost their meanings.

In response to Bron's comment:

"Yeah, cause no one's ever said that before. Everyone is convinced they have the answer..."

I not only find many flaws in this argument but I also find it biased and vague.

First thing - in order to be convinced you have an answer, you must have an opinion - something everyone on the planet has. Whether they voice it or not is entirely up to that person and his/her motives. You must have an opinion yourself, do you not? Perhaps share it with us instead of pointing the fingers and judging an opinion before you state your own. Hypocritical? Very.

Secondly. Of course people have said it before and I respect your sarcasm for it. But again, if people have voiced a relatively similar argument towards the subject, then perhaps a majority may be in play. The world doesn't operate on individualism. As much as I'd like it to, it doesn't. The world operates according to a majority. Popular culture is definitely one of those majorities, and I happen to disagree with basically everything popular culture has to offer me on a personal level. And again, even if that's my own opinion and my own personal calling, who's to say someone else doesn't feel the same way or perhaps the exact opposite? That's where the individual makes up his/her mind to tack on - either knowingly or unknowingly - to a majority or minority already in progress.

Third. You lack detail and comprehensiveness and your point or reasoning is rendered moot almost immediately. You almost responded to something with an intent to raise more of an argument on your behalf, but instead you just skipped your part and raised a stronger rebuttal with an egotistical supremacy that failed to instill even a fiber of retribution on your part within the argument and its participants as a whole.

Fourth. I do however agree with you when you say everyone is convinced they have the answer, but I strongly disagree with your motives to raise that subject into play. What does that have to do with anything at all? That would also mean you are convinced you have the answer, but you failed to voice your own opinion and just went straight to the part where you tell us you're a fool. Poor, poor quality on your part again. But hey - no one's perfect.

And last but not least ... perhaps next time when you decide to poke your head into an argument and share your 'words of wisdom' with us again, try and figure out your action plan a little better, save the sarcasm and the superficial ego, and incorporate some knowledge and personal insight rather than forcing yourself into submission.

Good day.

Bfhurricane, good point. Lyrics are only words and the english language has recently became a haven for slang and nonsense. I agree with your point where limits to expression are rather senseless, but I must also point out that the words did mean something in the past - modernized or not - and if the word doesn't mean anything anymore, why use them? Wouldn't that be like me writing a song with my band and saying or making a random noise to fill in space while I play the guitar? That's where 2pac and everything went wrong by saying "once you take the power away from the word, it doesn’t mean the same thing" because even though he was meticulously trying to reach his fans and the rap music scene in general, he lacked so much backing and support to his 'point' that his sentence too, doesn't even mean the same thing.

I don't know, I just find something wrong with why people write garbage and demeaning lyrics over top of a beat to reach their fans. Everything in the rap scene to me is shady (no pun intended). Think about it.

Wow, what a clever moderator you are. Sometimes knowledge and a backing of an argument comes with an ego. I'm sorry but I think Bron's moot comment, as well as your own, are basically absurd in nature and have nothing to do with the argument itself. I raised an issue, and it came back to me in a disrespectful and nonsensical manner.

I assure you my "ego" is not superficial. Sometimes there is a place for someone to speak over someone to correct them. That's where I came in. I do however assure you my sarcasm was about as real as it gets.

So again. Another post not worth replying to, but it's my day off so I decided I should. And allow me to stress it again:

Everything has its place.

i love how someone makes a point and the elitists here decide it's their job to be assholes to them. what a waste of time.

precisely deadtopain, i appreciate your honesty.

at least someone can relate to me in some sense. thanks.

You all need to quit being bitches and hos.

Goddammit, we have another steerpike.

Modern popular culture is sickening. What happened to real talent and actual MUSIC?

I don't know, I just find something wrong with why people write garbage and demeaning lyrics over top of a beat to reach their fans. Everything in the rap scene to me is shady (no pun intended). Think about it.

wtf am i supposed to listen to now?

jazz?

I think racial words are taken way too literally by everyone. It's america. Freedom of speech. Not freedom of cencorship. I'm not racist, but whatever.

Music isn't supposed to be about how many modern slang words you can fit into a verse or how many music videos you can make with a group of half naked women dancing in it while calling them "ho's" and saying they want you for sex and your money and your 'bling'.

Well I guess this is a good thing as long as it pertains only to music. As long as I can still hear those words on TV its all good. And seeing as how I don't listen to hardly any of that kind of music anyways it doesn't affect me much.

Well now rap songs will consist of about 3 words

I think it's dumb that hip-hop artists use those words all the time like that, but censorship of these words is even dumber. The double standards are what really irritate me. It's alright for them to use the words towards their own race, but it's demeaning if someone of another race does it. It's obviously degrading their own race when they use it too.

Just felt like stating the obvious.

Music should always be about something. Then there's no point. How about I write a 300 page book with no structure or storyline and no climax and no foundation for topic? How many books do you think I'm going to sell? That's where modernized society comes in. We don't appreciate talent or actual musicianship at all anymore. Ask anyone who grew up when music and melody and 'popular culture' was beginning to bloom. Regardless of what you all say, your points are rendered again, moot and worthless. You are stating a 'wrong', not a rebuttal in any sense. Telling me that I should otherwise be strapped down and forced to listen to music via anal pineapple insertions that I don't wish to be exposed to everyday in order to judge it - is completely absurd. What the hell do you think marketing ploys do? Or for that matter, popular culture or business schematics?! They MARKET and they bombard you with their products or their image or their sound in this case, whether you like it or not.

So thank you very much for wasting more of your own breath along with my own. Those of you trying to ploy against me are definitely not even coming close to raising an argument because you are missing KEY components to a basis of any point you have.

Done.This Message Edited On 04.24.07

Ask anyone who grew up when music and melody and 'popular culture' was beginning to bloom.

Telling me that I should otherwise be strapped down and forced to listen to music via anal pineapple insertions that I don't wish to be exposed to everyday in order to judge it - is completely absurd.

They MARKET and they bombard you with their products or their image or their sound in this case, whether you like it or not.

So thank you very much for wasting more of your own breath along with my own.

"And how do you propose I do that? With a Ouija board?"

HahahaThis Message Edited On 04.24.07

In your own words, "you're a thin-skinned, bratty little kid with no business surfing the internet" - It seems you use this reference a lot towards people (not only myself, but regularly towards others as well) you speak to more frequently than most in a barbaric manner in order to get your 'points' across. Maybe you should stop being miserable and obnoxious and start to optimize in your situations rather than forcefully engaging in pessimistic approaches. It sure hasn't gotten you anywhere thus far there, Pike.

So. Perhaps you should grow up and become the mere 22 year old you are and use your knowledge - or lack there of - for more beneficial means of communication and personal progress. You are immature, insensitive and completely foul in all forms of your 'personality'. You are a waste of space in my eyes and you certainly raise no problems or issues other than your own social instabilities and insecurities via the internet.

So, you thin-skinned bratty obnoxious prick, (I've tried to put as many adjectives in my description of you as I could to make it a SUPER DISS like you often do) have a lovely evening and try not to hurt yourself.

^^ and thus, with that statement, you completely disregarded steerpike's argument.

My dear mason you'll merely have to forgive me for not caring as much as yourself to type out the same opinion that so many of us have expressed and seen before.

In short, I don't care.

Telling me that I should otherwise be strapped down and forced to listen to music via anal pineapple insertions that I don't wish to be exposed to everyday in order to judge it - is completely absurd. What the hell do you think marketing ploys do? Or for that matter, popular culture or business schematics?! They MARKET and they bombard you with their products or their image or their sound in this case, whether you like it or not

It seems you use this reference a lot towards people you speak to more frequently than most in a barbaric manner in order to get your 'points' across.

You are immature, insensitive and completely foul in all forms of your 'personality'.

(I've tried to put as many adjectives in my description of you as I could to make it a SUPER DISS like you often do)

EDIT: Okay, now the board is working.This Message Edited On 04.25.07

Look. All I'm saying is that I made a post and stated an opinion. Then all of a sudden some elite members decided to just throw it back in my face with a few words that were unnecessary and definitely out of line.

I just have a problem with people trying to enforce "seniority" and go on "tantrums" of their own with the help of some imaginary power trip they assume gives them say over someone else's view on an internet forum. It's pathetic. So I don't care where it is or who you people are, there's no one saying I can't express myself.

And secondly, I am no "kvlt kiddie". I have siblings much older than you and in fact I am only 3 years younger than you are. Who's to say I'm not mature for my age? I know for a fact I am, so don't assume I'm some kiddie trying to tell everyone to go murder their co-workers because they are peddlers of narcissistic demon porn or something. And trust me, I have off-beat humour of my own as well.

I'm no blowhard. I don't "fuck the mainstream" I just do not respect popular culture in any way whatsoever. I assure you I live above a bridge, I am no moron either, I just possibly have a problem with seniority. That's all. But I do respect your forwardness because I am very much like that in my own respects, but I can't stand when someone - over the internet - disregards using ANY kind of respect when speaking to someone and ignores them. It's downright ignorant and you know it is. I didn't come on here and say "Why don't you all go digging through your kitchen drawers and swallow an 8 inch serrated knife" did I? No. I told people my views and didn't expect to get bombarded with power-tripping moderators and 'elitists' that seem to think I give a damn if they have a tag under their name that says they've posted 4000 comments (which is sad in itself) or if they have the ability to delete posts and the like. It's basically ridiculous and I got a laugh out of it.

Either way. I was disrespected almost immediately, and I don't enjoy being introduced to a "community" with negativity. In stead of being sarcastic and short with someone with an opinion, address it and discuss it, don't disregard it and be a complete asshat. Is that too much to ask?

So. Maybe it was all a big misunderstanding and we can all get along now and play patty cake in a meadow somewhere, or we can continue arguing about nonsense for a few more days and shake hands later with a "Good Day."

It's up to you guys.This Message Edited On 04.25.07This Message Edited On 04.25.07This Message Edited On 04.25.07

This argument was interesting, but I got tired reading entire essays of bullshit from Mason.

Steerpike wins again, and makes me laugh too.

I just do not respect popular culture in any way whatsoever.

I was disrespected almost immediately, and I don't enjoy being introduced to a "community" with negativity.

Thor, you're a tool. Enough said.

Steerpike, I never came in here with a bad attitude or told people how to play music. I just asked why people don't actually PLAY music anymore. I just don't find much talent in rap, and it's true. 5 people in a band playing instruments together making a song is much more impressive and musical than a dude talking over top of a fruity loops compilation. You all listen to metal do you not? You should know exactly what I'm saying. Live shows with a stage full of musicians is much more impressive than a couple guys standing on stage while a song plays thru a mixer. And I just commented on the choice of words. I just find it silly why someone would have to write about that kind of stuff. It's not only me with this opinion, I know for a fact there are others who share my view. Unfortunately, none of you have listened to me. You just see me as the "new guy" ranting and you all decide to pounce on me and disregard anything I'm saying because you're too thick-headed to read a few paragraphs. It's not an essay of bullshit. If you'd have any common sense I'm making perfect sense of my behalf. And I agree with you on the free speech thing. So why the hell am I being ridiculed for speaking my mind, no matter how tasteless or stupid you assume it is? I'm not twisting your arm to read what I'm saying.

See? It works both ways. All I WAS trying to say was don't just look at your side of the story and ignore what other people have to say because you've been here longer and assume power over the rest of us with your "wisdom".

Look, I didn't have a fit. I'm not angry or insulted or anything, it's just the internet. I have a very strict view on music and I probably shouldn't have came in here as direct and forward as I was, but all I asked was for people to hear me out. After all, there are also a few people in here who agreed with me. The majority of you had a shitfit and cut me up any way you could. It was ridiculous.

Relax. I'm going to work now because I have bigger fish to fry rather than sit on here and argue for the sake of arguing. I didn't expect this to happen and I apologize if I upset anyone. How about that?

Good day.

Internet seniority is a dumb concept anyway.

Look, with that little one-liner of mine, I wasn't condemning you to be viewed as some expendable new user, I was expressing my distaste for your vantage point in a manner that doesn't require me to type out sixteen paragraphs of subjective, and honestly at this point and for this particular debate it's cliche as fuck to do so anyway. Everyone who dwells this site has heard this argument hundreds of times over. You are not the first to come here and say the EXACT SAME THING.

And to an extent I agree with you. I like rap (Bone Thugz This Message Edited On 04.25.07

Man I had a pretty sweet long post and it wasn't malicious or anything but it won't let me post it all because it sucks. Down with the it.This Message Edited On 04.25.07

I just asked why people don't actually PLAY music anymore.

I just don't find much talent in rap, and it's true. 5 people in a band playing instruments together making a song is much more impressive and musical than a dude talking over top of a fruity loops compilation.

You all listen to metal do you not?

I just find it silly why someone would have to write about that kind of stuff.

So why the hell am I being ridiculed for speaking my mind, no matter how tasteless or stupid you assume it is? I'm not twisting your arm to read what I'm saying.

I have a very strict view on music and I probably shouldn't have came in here as direct and forward as I was, but all I asked was for people to hear me out.

We're not "pouncing on you" because you're the new guy. We're "pouncing on you" because you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you were to listen to any actual hip-hop and not the stuff on the radio, you would know that most hip-hop does use "actual instruments" and the lyrics are intellectual and writing a good hip-hop song does take a great amount skill.

After being here for awhile, i can tell you that you do get pounced on as the new guy. Anything you say will be judged and jumped upon by the members who have 1000 comments or more. You can deny it, but you know it's true. You're called an idiot or an asshole, or a douchebag no matter what you say. I can show evidence in almost ALL of the discussions I've been a part of.

Regardless, this argument has been rendered impotent a long time ago. Not all Hip-hop is demeaning to women. But most mainstream stuff is. I think that was the point Masonthenile was making. Popular culture is going downhill; there is no question about that. Yes steerpike, we've heard the argument before. But give it a rest already. Oh, and you're not as funny as you think you are. That is all.

Good day.

Oh, and you're not as funny as you think you are.

who pays you for being an asshole?

he is on the sputnik payroll

who pays you for being an asshole?

see, that was pretty witty. made me giggle, good job.

Honestly... Get rid of ho, bitch, and the word which I for some reason get my ass kicked for saying, even if it's not in a condescending way... and all that's left is a beat w/ a few adpositions and the word "bling" thrown in every couple seconds. This is definitely progress to bringing something less degrading and more respectable to the radio.

Metal that promotes Satanism; I'm not against metal that promotes Christianity.
Metal that promotes anything degrading or of that sort... I could care less about it being banned. It's not like this stuff's all over the radio, anyways.

why don't they just get rid of hip hop and rap altogether? the world would be a much better place. hip hop and rap of today is just filled with a bunch of wannabe "gangstas" anyways.