KILL or KEEP Vol.1
Smashing Pumpkins – Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Welcome to this series, where we take a classic album that everyone knows but not everyone loves, and run it through a set of users with conflicting takes. They will jam the album for public entertainment and post their hot takes for all to say.
The rules are simple: for each track, our valiant competitors must give one of two verdicts: KILL or KEEP. To give things a trademark Sputnikmusic positive spin, each user must KEEP at least two tracks. To keep things alive, they must KILL at least one.
Our competitors today are: Pheromone, DivergentThinking and johnnyoftheWell. The album is none other than Smashing Pumpkins megaopus ‘90s-affirming double-album Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. How well does this album hold up? Is it a timeless classic or an overworked sack of hot air? Let’s find out!
Starting Impressions
Each user, please briefly explain your feelings on the album going in, and what you hope to achieve here? Do you want to KILL/KEEP as much as possible? Or is this just about trimming some fat?
Pheromone: Hello fan, I anticipate a more negative vibe than my rating. It’s been years since I’ve craved any Smashing Pumpkins not named “Mayonaise”. I expect to still super love some of the songs but I’d be surprised if out of 200 songs there isn’t some serious fat to be cut off. Also mad nostalgia for some of these tracks so could sway some votes one way or the other (btw I can clean up some of these writings after the fact, it do be 9:30 am).
Rating: 3.5
DivergentThinking: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is still one of my favorite albums of all time. While I can admit that not every single bit of the two-hour runtime is absolute perfection, it’s hard not to appreciate the level of ambition associated with the project. And considering there are 28 songs in total, the consistency of the album is really impressive. I think it’s obvious to most of you that I’m going to keep the majority of the record; however, I will still be honest with myself and kill a song wherever I feel it’s needed.
Rating: 5
johnnyoftheWell: I’ve always felt that MC was bloated by filler and B-side material, with layers of indulgence and cringe to boot, but I’ve also gotta admit that there are enough great songs for there to be a plausibly good standard-length LP lurking underneath. Let’s see if we can find it…
Rating: 2.7
Let’s start the album!
It should be noted that Pheromone and johnnyoftheWell were jamming this in sync over a Facebook chat. Choice comments from this discourse have been preserved as such.
(1) Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
Pheromone: You can practically hear Billy Corgan stroking his ego having this as the opener, but idk it is one beautiful stroke. This has brought back a bunch of long-time unearthed nostalgia. I do actually really adore this as an opener into Tonight, Tonight. KEEP
DivergentThinking: A cool little piano intro, and one that creates a nice sense of musical world-building. The track generates a lovely mix of hope and melancholy, which is very appropriate for the tonal contrasts that drive the rest of the record. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: This takes me back more than I expected, damn. I feel it’s a pretty appropriate start for the album as is, and definitely works as a lead-in to Tonight, Tonight. I wouldn’t nuke this from the 2XLP, but the mission here ain’t a double! Narrowly KILL.
(2) Tonight, Tonight
johnnyoftheWell: I didn’t even grow up with this and I still feel nostalgic. Shit’s powerful, never underestimate a string arrangement yo. Corgan’s whole performance and writing here is also powerful in that it makes me want to throw his mic and lyric sheet directly out of the window. Which is stronger? Oh man, extremely begrudging KEEP.
Pheromone: If there is any way to aptly open a megafuck of an album, the two hit punch of Tonight, Tonight and the dramatic intro is it. It’s pure melodrama with Corgan’s cheese lyricism and massive arrangement to boot. It’s classic Pumpkins. KEEP
DivergentThinking: This is exactly how you expand on a great intro. Jimmy Chamberlain’s drums are so propulsive and energetic during the choruses, which have already been emotionally charged by the fantastic string arrangement as it is. Billy’s vocals are pretty grating at times (shock of all shocks), but he’s singing with so much gusto that I can forgive how nasally he sounds. KEEP
(3) Jellybelly
Pheromone: Proper 90s grunge-inspo; rebellion, riffs and whinge in a heavy as fuck yin to “Tonight, Tonight”’s yan. One of their best rockers. KEEP (oh man imagine if I end up KEEPING all 50)
DivergentThinking: The first true sign that Mellon Collie will be a more diverse affair than Siamese Dream, “Jellybelly” follows up the symphonic rock stylings of “Tonight, Tonight” with an incredibly heavy alt-metal jam with downtuned guitars and raging drumwork. Not much more to say; just a really fun and intense track. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: Hey, it’s Geek USA’s snotty little brother. Honestly, I always liked this one – very template grunge Pumpkins, but that chorus is a great hook and that bridge gets the grease rising to the tip of my nose in the best way. The sequencing on the originally being as incredibly stupid as it is, this has absolutely zero business following Tonight, Tonight but that’s no reason not to KEEP.
(4) Zero
Pheromone: “Emptiness is loneliness
and loneliness is cleanliness
and cleanliness is godliness
and god is empty just like me”
KILL
DivergentThinking: This one’s actually kinda difficult for me. I love the riffs and energy here, but the lyrics and vocals have always been pretty damn cringey as well. Despite the song’s popularity with the Pumpkins fanbase, it’s one of my least favorite tracks here. But because I enjoy that really off-kilter solo in the middle (gotta love the layering), I will begrudgingly KEEP this one.
johnnyoftheWell: Uh, this is gonna be one of the hardest calls. This song rips like no-one’s business, absolutely peak James Iha harmonic and pedal fuckage right there. It is also one of the most unadulterated outpourings of cringe from any vocalist in any decade ever and my morals say KILL.
(5) Here Is No Why
johnnyoftheWell: This was always one of my favourites, one of the best examples of that golden glow stadium cheese baby riff posi vibes sound that so much of this shoots for. Still got that magic, KEEP
Pheromone: This song works as a show of all their strengths and weaknesses moulded into one pretty awesome, but definitely faulted tune. Corgan’s vocals to open it up are the perfect representation of that, the sort of high croon that had no right working as beaut as it did. That riff at 2:40 is iconic. Oh man this is one of their best but it feels so wrong. KEEP
DivergentThinking: Very nice way to wind down after the last two songs. I love how jazzy the main riff sounds, and Billy’s vocals are much more enjoyable here. No matter how heavy the song gets during the chorus, the beautiful dreamlike atmosphere is always there. Great stuff. KEEP
(6) Bullet With Butterfly Wings
johnnyoftheWell: I’ve midkey hated and avoided this ever since Grimes threw in that mega tryhard namedrop on My Name Is Dark.
Pheromone: Lol tbf this song is very shit-onable. Proper Corgan lyricism at it’s worst, but fuck it, it’s a classic.
DivergentThinking: Not even sure what to say about this one that hasn’t been said already. It’s still a fan favorite and gets both praised and memed to this day, and I can’t say I don’t know why. It’s an alt-rock classic, complete with one of the catchiest choruses of the era and some of the most quotable lyrics. Of course, those lyrics are also a double-edged sword – yeah, “the world is a vampire” hasn’t exactly aged well – but they’re still fun regardless. KEEP
Pheromone: Always. Always. Today. Maintain that this should have been the opener. Fucking hell, is anything more iconic than “THE WORLD IS A VAMPIRE”… oh Corgan your teenage riff-raff sounds so good when it rocks this hard, those nasal-squeal-metal inflection and that riff and that chorus DESPITE ALL MY RAGE and that last chorus “despite all rage i am still just a rat in a CAAAAGE”. Proto-fight club low key. I hope you never sell out rat-corgan. KEEP.
johnnyoftheWell: Paha, this one shows its age. Probably a cute time capsule but I was born in 1996 so the joke’s on Corgan. That verse groove and chorus meathead powerchord riff very much rips, the hard rock vox and tormented-artist lyricism very much do not. Hmmm, I’m 50-50 here. A vote for this is a vote for Billy Corgan’s ego and self-pity-bilestuff, but it’s also a decent single? And a classic? Pfft, KILL
(7) To Forgive
johnnyoftheWell: Always thought this was one of their best dark songs not on Siamese.
Pheromone: Yeah this is like altrock sadboy track done so well.
johnnyoftheWell: Also the lyrics don’t blow?
Pheromone: Yeah such a rare one on this album aha. KILL. jk.
DivergentThinking: Beautiful tune, and probably the softest song on the album. The lyrics are some of the best on offer here, the somber atmosphere is gorgeous, and Billy’s vocals are great. What more can you ask for? KEEP
Pheromone: The song is just gorgeous. A rarity in their post-Siamese sadder numbers, everything here clicks into place. Even Chamberlin’s almost non-existent drumming strikes that special certain mellon-collic hue that’s super rare to achieve. Flow-wise the album is a bit of a mess with this coming before “An Ode”, but that’s hardly its fault. big KEEP.
johnnyoftheWell: One of the few tracks that grew on me a long way back when I first jammed this. This is absolutely one of my favourite Corgan performances on the album; it’s a creeper, and that bridge is too fleeting to feel like a proper release, which maybe I like? Definitely KEEP.
(8)An Ode To No One
Pheromone: Can you call this loud / quiet? IDK it’s 90s alt rock, you bet I will. The schtick on this one is super 90s and super dated. The crunching riff building the verses tension into ze chorus release is jarringly by-the-numbers, until shit hits the fan (about 3 mins where it actually really rips). I’d let the last minute swallow me tbf but it’s super dated and the first big filler track so far. KILL
DivergentThinking: Much like “Zero”, this one reeeeeaaaaalllly rides that line between KILL and KEEP. I love the aggression and the insane drumming, but the lyrics are just terrible. The “bumblebee mouth” line is really not something you want to want to call attention to, and unfortunately Billy decides to let all the other instruments drop out so we can hear it. WHY? Yeah, I guess I’ll KILL this one.
johnnyoftheWell: First up, Jimmy Chamberlin’s drumming is so bitchin good on this that I kind of want to keep it. The rest of it is one steaming toxic embarrassment. Fuck outta here, bumblebee mouth. Aged extremely badly, KILL
(9) Love
DivergentThinking: The worst song on the album by quite a mile. It’s just average alternative rock… no more, no less. There’s absolutely no reason for it to be on the album, especially since it doesn’t remotely fit its loose concept at all. The weird effects on the solo are kinda cool, but not enough to save the song as a whole. KILL this one!
johnnyoftheWell: Everyone hates on this one, but also everyone loves Smashing Pumpkins. People don’t know shit. Always thought that synthed up glam-goth was a surprisingly good look for these guys, and definitely suits Corgan’s dead cat voice better than my-first-thrash riffs. Still ain’t great. KILL
Pheromone: Love. Me no. KILL
(10) Cupid de Locke
Pheromone: God this is such a weak point in the album. This isn’t even bad, it’s pure yawn. I’m starting to think this portion of the album is where shit falls a bit off the cliff. James Iha’s arrangement here is gorgeous but Corgan’s vox do not work over that psychedelic bliss. KILL but with the annoying feeling that it could’ve been super special.
DivergentThinking: Luckily this one is a nice recovery after the last two tracks. I love the salt shaker and autoharp instrumentation, and the dreamy atmosphere is just lovely. The lyrics are a bit cringey, but the music is so nice that I will happily KEEP this one.
johnnyoftheWell: Another sequencing malfunction, and I have no recollection of anything outside of the first 30 secs. Oh, that’s because they loop the whole way and Corgan croons corny nothings over them for the rest of it? Hmm. Always thought that lovely, lovely arrangement was a nice contrast with the rest of the album – the bridge is terrible, but I’d keep a shortened instrumental version of this. As it is…eh, screw it KEEP
(11) Galapogos
johnnyoftheWell: Aww man the sequencing actually works really well here.
Pheromone: Yeah man, super well which is funny because you really notice how jarring the rest of the sequencing has been.
johnnyoftheWell: This is such a deeply broken album lmao. Anyway, this song is absolutely beautiful. Stunning bridge, peak Corgan croon, lovely pacing, comfy album highlight. KEEP.
Pheromone: When Corgan’s vox work they really work. That croon is gorgeous. Proper drift away in space & time song. KEEP
DivergentThinking: Lovely tune. It has the same beautiful sense of atmosphere as “Cupid De Locke”, just distilled into a much more diverse track with more ebbs and flows. Jimmy’s drumming works so well during the chorus, showing off a much subtler and more tasteful style than we’re used to from him. KEEP
(12) Muzzle
johnnyoftheWell: I mean there’s nothing actively wrong this one, but I always felt it was totally middle-of-the-road as a mid-tempo middlingly melodic rocker? Am sure it’d be great live or whatever, but there’s no space for that on our imaginary high quality single disc. KILL
Pheromone: Muzzle is Mellon Collie’s take on Hummer and that isn’t because I always confused the two growing up! Thus, holding Muzzle up to the heights of Hummer falls face flat – you shouldn’t have done so Corgan, you shouldn’t have made me do so. KILL (but actually the song is pretty good, there’s just tons on the album that do this same sound better)
(at this period my headphones stopped working and if you are familiar with the ol’ pumpkins you know this might be detrimental to getting the most out of their kind of ott-shoegaze esque arrangement, so hold this space for more critical-shit laptop opinions)
DivergentThinking: Another one of the weakest tracks on the album. I’m a little baffled that this was chosen as one of the singles, considering it’s just nondescript alternative rock. The guitar playing is great, but otherwise I always forget this song exists unless I’m listening to the album in full. KILL
(13) Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans
johnnyoftheWell: I remember this being good but not understanding why it was so long.
Pheromone: Shit I didn’t even remember this being 9 mins. should we make our reviews of the track overly long for no reason? But still ultimately keep it because it is a good track.
johnnyoftheWell: If there are things to say? […] I love it when tracks have a two minute introduction that gets swept under the carpet with zero notice.
Pheromone: Lol innit. Such a 90s trope. I’ll do a long review.
johnnyoftheWell: I’ll do a short one lol Will read the cake menu in this cafe meanwhile. Actually y’know, is this that good? Or is it longer prettier slower Muzzle?
Pheromone: It’s pretty average for 9 mins. It is a bit beautiful though lol, this is the sort of song I need headphones for ffs.
johnnyoftheWell: There’s no reason for this to be so long. Basically a B-tier Hum song. Probably quite good. Best part is the intro, but that ends. KILL
Pheromone: Porcelina of the Vast Ocean is strangely symbolic of the album’s supposedly overarching concept. If anything, the name conveys in so few words what the album sometimes struggles to convey. I attempted to google “Porcelina” to see if it had any meaning seperate from Melon Collie, instead it returned tons of analysis of the song itself – the Pumpkins here formed a monopoly over the name Porcelina. There are probably tons of twenty year old alt-rock raised kids named ‘Porcelina’ in this world, after conception to this song (the ideal length for Pumpkin-fan conception). That’s a beautiful thought, except if you take Corgan’s recent move towards supervillian status (and wrestling oligarch), but hey how could they have known back then in the loving 90s. It’s a slow droning sort of a song, I assume to symbolise the ‘vast oceans’ in the title. Whatever. It’s 9 minutes long. I’m not a huge fan of when someone takes an idea and stretches it out well past its expiry date. KILL
DivergentThinking: Despite being about two minutes too long, I still really love this one. The soft moments recall the atmosphere and tone of “Galapagos”, but then you get those heavy choruses that break them up quite nicely. And much like the aforementioned song, it’s all about the ebbs and flows here. The track is probably one of my favorite examples of dynamic contrasts on the album, and until those last few meandering minutes at the end, I don’t think it overstays its welcome. KEEP
(14) Take Me Down
Pheromone: Shoutout to this song low key sounding like an Elephant 6 tune, and a strong one at that. That croon is peak lol hours but it’s actually really quite lovely and makes for a great n dreamy closer to a topsy turvy first half. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: James Iha sounds better than Corgan on like half the album. This is a gorgeous track – another victory for sentimentalist Pumpkins. KEEP
DivergentThinking: SUCH an underrated song. It’s a damn shame that James Iha didn’t put as much effort into his solo career, because this is his first solo writing credit with the Pumpkins and he nails it! Beautiful acoustic guitar work, lovely soft crooning from James, and – as with prior tracks – a nice dreamlike feel to it all. One of my highest possible KEEPs on this album.
(15) Where Boys Fear To Tread
johnnyoftheWell: Wow what a terrible intro. Gonna mute it and order cake.
Pheromone: Yeah, I paused to collect food from the delivery order man.
johnnyoftheWell: […]
Pheromone: […]
johnnyoftheWell: Okay, so I got a little distracted there – this song’s intro is terrible but easily ignorance. The rest kinda holds up. That riff is nasty and somehow gives Corgan’s snarl the space to not sound impossibly nasal (or maybe I am just used to it by now). One of the most confusingly awfully placed disc openers of all time for sure, and I’m not sure where it would go in decent sequencing – actually, I think this is such an oddity that it benefits from its own space at the start of a largely dysfunctional disc. I guess it has no place on a coherent version of this album, so KILL but it’d look good on a B-sides disc
Pheromone: The frustrating thing about the 24-song length is that songs that are actually pre good (this one) feel saturated among a sea of other pre-good songs. It’s like, it has a place, but that place is occupied by a ton of other residents and this one doesn’t stand out plus it’s the god-damn second half opener. Ech reluctantly KILL.
DivergentThinking: For me it’s all about the metal riff that dominates this entire track. I do feel as though the next track “Bodies” should have been the opener to this second disc, but this one works fine too. The intro is annoying, but everything else here is pretty good. KEEP
(16) Bodies
Pheromone: This song is kind of super-what I want from every other song that tries to rock this hard on the album. That riff is super infectious and kind of sounds strangely of-this-time, the “love is suicide” is peak Corgan cringe-tinged romanticism but idk it works on this one. His vox rip over that damn riff crunch rly well, drums are stellar. I wish I was eating cake in a cafe rn . KEEP
DivergentThinking: An absolute SCORCHER. I love the metal riffs and overall aggression, and Billy’s vocals are surprisingly good here given how intense his singing is here. Not much else to say, just an angsty rocker with really fun riffs. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: This is the “Zero” of disc two: high cringe, good riffs. I think it’s a lot more balanced than “Zero” and if there’s one angst pie on the album worth keeping, it’s probably this one. Begrudgingly KEEP
(17) Thirty-Three
DivergentThinking: A nice slice of dreamlike balladry. The guitar playing is beautiful, the lyrics are actually pretty good, and despite how cheesy the overall tune can be, it still sounds very sincere in its cheesiness. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: “Tomorrow’s just an excuse away” is maybe one of the stronger drippy romantic lines on this album. This is an absolutely gorgeous cheeseball and I love it mildly a lot. KEEP
Pheromone: Beach House are a three piece American dream-pop band. I am usually not a huge fan of them, but sometimes they release a song that’ll whisk me through their gorgeous hue. This is certainly one. KEEP
(18) In the Arms of Sleep
Pheromone: The two-song dream punch of this and “Thirty-Three” stand as one of the only periods on the album where the concept feels like less than a loose blueprint. The flow is ~~~nice~~~~, the song is not that* great, I’d be sort of super surprised if this was someone’s favourite on the album. It’s serviceable in existence but I bet I forget everything about it in 100 seconds. God damn this is a hard one. KE-KILL
DivergentThinking: Basically the weaker brother of the previous song. I like the guitar work, but otherwise this one is pretty boring. I never really listen to it in isolation, only hearing it when I’m going through the entire album. KILL
johnnyoftheWell: After the absolute sequencing car crash of Thirty-Three following two of the album’s meanest rockers, this one at least feels strong in the continuity department. Too bad its a total snoozer; I had little to no recollection of it, and relistening it’s a vastly inferior take on the “To Forgive” formula. B-side = KILL
(19) 1979
Pheromone: This is for real my favourite Pumpkins not named ‘Mayonaise’. It’s one of those classics that is actually certi- and you gotta be an absolute smellyboi to not realise this (watch Johnny KILL df out of this). If I wrote how this song made me really feel it’d be a special level of cringe transcendent to match some of this album’s lyricism. Oh well, it’s a classic. biggest KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: Best song ever, nostalgic perfection. KEEP
DivergentThinking: Never been one of my favorite Pumpkins songs, but I still like it a lot. The subtle electronic elements such as the vocal loops are pretty cool, and the song as a whole is coated in that familiar 90s nostalgia that makes it even more special. KEEP
(20) Tales Of A Scorched Earth
Pheromone: I’ve sort of woken up now which is making me realise more and more how I need to edit some of these writings lmao. Also it wilds me out how you are in a cafe in Japan rn at night time.
johnnyoftheWell: [Hahaha]
Pheromone: Omg this song hahaha this is such a meme.
johnnyoftheWell: Forgot this existed. What the fuck is this vocal take. KILL
Pheromone: Is this the Pumpkins attempt at a Territorial Pissings curveball because it falls so ridiculously flat. KILL
johnnyoftheWell: How the shit did this make it onto the album hahahaha
Pheromone: I actually can’t believe it haha
johnnyoftheWell: Am almost laughing in public
Pheromone: It sounds so flat instrumentally too, just such a jarring song
johnnyoftheWell: Am mildly laughing in public
Pheromone: I hope your earphones are silent hehe
johnnyoftheWell: This was produced by fucking Flood?
Pheromone: I think if my headphones didn’t break before this would have sent em
DivergentThinking: Yeah… yeah, this is the worst “heavy” track on the album. I appreciate what Billy was trying to go for here, but the vocals are basically unlistenable, and the riffs aren’t really that interesting. Looking back on the album as a whole, this might actually be my least favorite song overall. KILL
[…]
Pheromone: Of course it ends like that…
(21) Thru the Eyes of Ruby
Pheromone: …and then into some fucking 60s key melody.
johnnyoftheWell: Of course the Pumpkins followed up that atrocity of a metal song with a whiplash dinky piano intro. This track definitely has some cumbersome “epic” qualities, but I think Iha really pulls his weight here. Lots of good melodic accents that keep this from being as shapeless as “Porcelina”. Corgan is still mostly useless, but I can vibe this a fair bit and wish I’d jammed itmore back in the day. Still very laboured, but it’s good enough to KEEP
Pheromone: The Pumpkins have ruined me. I’m so disenfranchised at this point that the should-be overwhelming contrast of the prior songs’ ear-destruction compared to the twinkly keys here didn’t even really throw me for a loop. This album is beating me up. This is on one hand hella forgetful and on the other actually really pretty to listen to, with one of their best crescendo-endings (esp. the drumming which genuinely slaps). It’ll be a weaker track on the reformed album but KEEP
DivergentThinking: Yeah, the contrast between “Tales…” and this is super fucking jarring, haha. With that said, this one is a lot more interesting as an epic than “Porcelina…” is. It feels more like a traditional rock epic, with the soaring choruses and layered guitar parts and the like. Also, those twinkly keyboards are a really nice touch. KEEP
(22) Stumbeleine
Pheromone: Apt name considering the albums concept – the Pumpkins stumbling through a ton of genres picking up occasional gems. This is actually really beaut and the minimalist arrangement makes for one of their best pace-changes on the much-congested album. KEEP
DivergentThinking: Underrated as fuck. The acoustic guitar work is lovely, and the lyrics are very well-written compared to a lot of the other songs on the record. I like how few embellishments there are… most of it is just Billy and his guitar, and that’s all the song needs. Absolute KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: This is mid-key an album highlight. Feels so direct compared all the heaps of pompous shit on display and has one of the best stripped-back performances. There is no tracklist that this won’t look good on. KEEP
(23) X.Y.U.
johnnyoftheWell: I used to think this was the peak of Smashing Pumpkins cringe, but it turns out it kinda rocks and the album has much worse. I misjudged! Still, this band were never anything close to cool enough to make that riff sound badass for seven fucking minutes. Iha’s solo near the end sounds like his guitar wants to kill itself. I feel it. KILL
Pheromone: Fucks. KEEP
Despite Puddle’s stupid opinion. Song fucks. KEEP
Despite puddle wet. Song fucks. KEEP
Puddle. fucks. KEEP
This album has burnt me out and it’s like 11:11am in the morning.
DivergentThinking: My second-favorite song on the entire album. This song succeeds in every way that “Tales of a Scorched Earth” fails, being similarly over-the-top but always in an interesting and fun way. Billy is so unhinged, and his vocals match the metal riffs perfectly; this is especially true of the screams he does before the incredible slow riff at the end of the track. And speaking of which, that riff might be my favorite moment on the record; that shit never ceases to make me headbang and go nuts every time. 1000% KEEP
Pheromone: Omg how uncool are the Pumpkins lol. The song kind of reminds me of a Pinkerton era Weezer anticool take on Sonic Youth cool. Also sounds kind of overproduced. I forgot I KEPT this song.
(24) We Only Come Out At Night
Pheromone: I am laughing.
johnnyoftheWell: This is a Teletubbies deleted scene soundtrack. What literal sadist decided it could follow “X.Y.U.”? Credit where it’s due, this album has a pinch of good humour to it. KILL
Pheromone: Another big mess of a transition. The song is good to great to sort-of a jarring listen to in the album’s context. KEEP only to put next to X.Y.U in its rightful place. Ffs I might end up KILLing both for maximum b-side lolficiency. We could make the worst album of all time with some of the cut tracks. Yeah both gotta be KILL‘d
(Pheromone KILLs “X.Y.U.” and “We Only Come Out At Night”)
DivergentThinking: Another ridiculous transition, but one that leads to a song I enjoy a lot. I understand that most people have deemed this as filler, but I really love the atmosphere here. True to the title, it sounds very nocturnal and sleepy; I’m a big fan of the keyboard sound Billy went for here… it just makes the whole thing sound so peaceful. KEEP
(25) Beautiful
Pheromone: Song sounds like Blur’s “No Distance Left To Run”, but came out four years before. It somehow still sounds a bit like they’re copying that latter Blur song of which Science can’t explain the phenomena. God damn, if anyone can rip off a song released four years in the future it’s Mellon Collie era Corgan & Co. KILL
DivergentThinking: The final song I’d axe from this album. I don’t even know what to say about this one because of how boring it is; all I will say is that this, “Love”, and “Tales of a Scorched Earth” are the only true bombs on this record (yeah, I know I axed a few others as well. But those were borderline Keeps).
johnnyoftheWell: “Beautiful” is one of my favourite hooks in the mildly underrated (or not) Charli XCX post-banger “Unlock It”. It is also a really silly kitsch song on this draining neverending mess of an album. I do enjoy the beat and plinky-plonk soppy piano more than I remembered, but it’s gotta be a KILL
(26) Lily (My One And Only)
DivergentThinking: A bit filler-y, but I enjoy it. Just a nice piano-driven ballad with a swingin’ drum part that carries it along nicely. I’m not a fan of how many ballads there are near the tail-end of the record, which really kills the pacing, but this is a solid tune nonetheless. KEEP
Pheromone: This song is actually kind of delightful as it plods through a daytime coffee and morning paper midlife soundtrack. I’m sure it will flow just as fucking awfully on our new creation but KEEP nonetheless.
johnnyoftheWell: I will never understand the sheer positivity of songwriting spirit that afforded this a place on the album’s final tracklist. Corgan’s middle-aged sophouse is cute but would sound awkward as hell on any album in any time and place. KILL
(27) By Starlight
Pheromone: It’s been said maybe after every song, but the album is killed by its flow. How is this song placed after four soft-boi numbers when it’d kind of gels nicely as a stepping stone from a big rocker into a soft-boi! But yeah, it’s kind of nice. I can’t wait til I can escape this album.
johnnyoftheWell: Same lol. Whatever we jam next is gonna sound a million times better.
Pheromone: This song is one of the prettiest on the album, but after like 1hr 50 of peaks n troughs, I’ve become sort of pre-programmed to dislike it. This, maybe more than any other song on the album, would benefit from a new tracklisting. KEEP.
johnnyofthWell: This gets majorly fucked over by sequencing – how in the world was it a good idea to follow the album’s catastrophic musical theatre showcase with something this drowsy? I like this song a fair bit, it’s dull in places but has a load of nice reverb sounds and cosy atmosphere. Corgan tries to do a falsetto and it’s endearing. KEEP
DivergentThinking: My favorite song on the album, and one of my favorite songs of all time. The atmosphere on this track never ceases to amaze me; it simply sounds cosmic, and all the swirling guitar and synth parts that color the song’s background are just incredible. On top of that, it’s a really touching love song that showcases some of Billy’s finest vocals in the band’s discog. The final section in which the lower guitar part joins the mix is one of my favorite moments in all of music. My highest possible KEEP
(28) Farewell And Goodnight
Pheromone: This is one of my favourites for sure. The blending of all vocalists with the serene basic acoustic strumming. An intended emotional opus of a magnificent 2xLP achievement. This maybe benefits from being the light out of the albums kind-of neverending tunnel, but it is luvly. (For some reason I always thought this album ended with a “Tonight, Tonight” reprise). BIG KEEP
DivergentThinking: Very enjoyable closing ballad, and I like how every member gets a chance to shine vocally for the first (and only) time in the band’s career. It’s a nice way to wrap up this monster of an album. KEEP
johnnyoftheWell: Similarly to the s/t piano intro, this feels like an appropriately drawn out bookend for such a protracted album. It’s a really cute moment of release, but I’m not sure it’d hold up in a shorter tracklist. I guess it’s an unfortunate KILL
Closing remarks
Pheromone: After Siamese Dream’s eerily precise success, Mellon Collie’s double-album bold concept was always gonna take a lot of meticulous planning. Instead, it’s an album with an almost incomprehensible lack-of-flow, a structural mess, with a palm of songs that are hard to distinguish from one another. BUT, on the other hand it has a TON of classics and a lot of the KILLs are narrow KILLs at best (like a puny bleed-out from the leg n not a headshot). The album has a ton of potential which is why it’s sort of frustrating to see the hype it garnered despite missing most of the potential hits.
DivergentThinking: Despite axing six songs from my personal tracklist of the album, I still can’t give this less than a 5. The highs are still so incredible, and the lows are few and far between. As I said at the beginning, I love the ambitiousness of this record; the fact that it blends alternative rock, art rock, grunge, progressive rock, folk, metal, and a whole bunch of other genres without falling apart is incredibly impressive. Plus, three of the six songs I axed were borderline KEEPs; I just had to let them go because they weren’t quite as memorable compared to the really high standard the rest of the record maintains. In any case, I still absolutely love this thing.
johnnyoftheWell: Hmm. This has been more revealing than I expected; a lot of the tracks I scapegoated hold up more than I remembered, even if I still don’t love them (“Beautiful” and “X.Y.U.” especially). There are some egregious duds that I forgot entirely, and some of the tracks I remembered positively have lost their sheen – it’s sad to see “Zero” and “Porcelina” slip. I also haven’t heard this album in full for years, so the appalling sequencing definitely hit me hard. However, there’s a lot of gold here – I think that Mellon Collie is a broken and borderline bad album, but there’s enough salvageable highlights that I’ll be a little more careful about how I shitpost it in future. Good jams. Gonna jam Hum now.
Ideal Tracklists
johnnyoftheWell
- Thirty-Three
- Here Is No Why
- Jellybelly
- Bodies
- To Forgive
- Thru the Eyes of Ruby
- Galapogos
- Cupid de Locke
- Tonight, Tonight
- By Starlight
- Stumbeleine
- 1979
- Take Me Down
Pheromone:
- Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
- Tonight, Tonight
- Galapogos
- Lily (My One And Only)
- Bullet With Butterfly Wings
- Thru The Eyes of Ruby
- 1979
- Stumbleine
- Thirty-Three
- Bodies
- Jellybelly
- Take Me Down
- To Forgive
- Here Is No Why
- Farewell And Goodnight
DivergentThinking:
Disc 1:
- Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
- Tonight, Tonight
- Zero
- Jellybelly
- Here is No Why
- Bullet with Butterfly Wings
- To Forgive
- Cupid De Locke
- Galapagos
- Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
- Take Me Down
Disc 2:
- Bodies
- Where Boys Fear to Tread
- 1979
- Thirty-Three
- Stumbleine
- Thru the Eyes of Ruby
- We Only Come Out at Night
- Lily (My One and Only)
- X.Y.U.
- By Starlight
- Farewell and Goodnight
Thank you for reading/scrolling to the end. Please throw generous amounts of shade and volunteer an album to be trounced next time around. Enjoy your day.
04.12.21
cheers to phero and Divergent, gg good fun
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Love the idea
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n johnny ur missing an e on 27 pt2
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reported for clickbait
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reported for clickbait
so glad I wasnt the only one.
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I missed out on a bunch of alt/grunge 90s stuff growing up so I’ve been catching up over the last six months and only heard this for the first time last month so this is great timing for me!
Sequencing is horrific as discussed and from what I’ve learned recently about this time of music I would agree Hum- Downward is Heavenward is better but don’t forget Failure- Fantastic Planet is better still.
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Where Boys Fear to Tread is also immense - not sure what's going on here...
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2 KEEP
3 KEEP
4 KEEP
5 KEEP
6 KILL
7 KEEP
8 KILL
9 KILL
10 KILL
11 KEEP
12 KILL
13 KILL
14 KILL
15 KEEP
16 KEEP
17 KEEP
18 KEEP
19 KEEP
20 KILL
21 KEEP
22 KILL
23 KEEP
24 KILL
25 KILL
26 KILL
27 KEEP
28 KILL
The only correct answer
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also idk whether Zero's meant to be serious, but like phero basically said, Corgan's nowhere near cool enough to pull off self-dep
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I thought we were exactly halving the tracklist but I stand by my picks - I'd probably shift the order a tiny bit so 'Where Boys'/'Bodies' kick off 'Side B', great pairing
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in hindsight, I would probs swap Zero for Bodies on my final ver, can't deny those riffs are rippin
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Also, I always thought Galapagos was such an impactful ballad, so if I was going to cut this down to 1 disc and reorganize the tracklist, it'd probably be one of the last tracks so it hit extra hard... lemme see if I can come up with my own version that's under 80 mins haha
04.12.21
you guys are enigmas!
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the woke thing to do would be axe all of them, but i don't think the ones i kept don't quite deserve that
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If I chose not to KILL it I would transfer it to Adore I guess
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Billy Corgan is like if people took Corey Feldman seriously
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2.Bodies - continues the badassery
3.Tonight, Tonight - lead single time (that's right, in my world this would be the lead, not 1979)
4.In the Arms of Sleep (a lot of intensity, so now for something chill
5.Zero (back to heavy)
6.Thirty-Three (this had to go somewhere and it felt like an earlier track)
7.Here Is No why (same reason as Thirty Three, but heavier)
8.Bullet with Butterfly Wings (mid-album rocker)
9.1979 (BwBW and this feel like a pair for some reason)
10.To Forgive (the slow song after the hit singles)
11.Thru the Eyes of Ruby (the epic heavy)
12.Love (no idea why people hate this one, the fuzz rules)
13.Lily (My One and Only) (the goofy late album track)
14.X.Y.U. (that leads into a monster)
15.Galapogos (obviously a late album track that hits feelings)
16.Muzzle (late album rocker to wrap things up)
17.By Starlight (honestly, this is a better lullaby than Farewell and Goodnight)
76 minutes, would fit on a 90s CD
04.12.21
In the Arms of Sleep always sounded a bit like a Stones countryish ballad, almost a Jagger vocal delivery
04.12.21
Few comments:
In the Arms of Sleep is one of the best songs here - gotta be a keep.
Intro to Where Boys Fear to Trend is unreal, another keep.
Cupid and Lily both have to go, Corgan stretches himself too much in the way of 'ye grand olde' etc vibe he was going with on this.
Bullet/Zero - Gotta have at least one of them in - shit's iconic.
Looking forward to the next one you guys do.
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which
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You also get the treat of listening to ‘My World’ by visionary electronica producer Axl Rose!
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don't think I've ever heard a GnR alb end to end hmm
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Do not let my limited exp/shit taste dictate choices in this lol
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I thought I like Andre more but Speakerboxxx crushed Love Below into dust
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Thank fuck Johnny admitted to underrating XYU
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Dude, I’d be down. I was thinking maybe Deliverance, because then the dynamic would be reversed with me being the most negative one. lol
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My good and handsome friend Rowan has an alternate tracklist for this that's predictably great. I summon thee
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unfortunately my tracklist for this is longer and just swaps out the shit tracks for the best ones on Aeroplane so doesn't really fit this blog
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Very intriguing concept and a fun read. Would love to participate in one of these sometime
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Great wee write-up by the way! Impressive work from all
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x_x
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The Clash - Sandinista
Slayer - Reign in Blood
AC/DC - Back In Black
Nirvana - Nevermind
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
Metallica - Black Album
Sepultura - Roots
04.14.21
ordered an almond cream icing lemon cream centre thing i stg i don't understand this country
Reign in Blood is already mercifully short and there's no need to cut Nevermind since the shrewd cookies don't jam it outside the singles to begin with
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rate this
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I tend to skip THE single these days unless I'm in the mood for it. I've always skipped Polly. Nearly every other song is good to great.
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That would be pretty interesting too, considering Mezmerize is my least favorite SOAD album
04.15.21
Lots o' fun. Reminded me how much I love this album. Album's a bit bloated, but then there's a whole other 2 hours (28 songs) worth of material from the sessions in the form of the The Aeroplane Flies High compilation ...
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[url=https://www.sanantoniotileinstallation.com]click here[/url]
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I think Ars's track-list looks the most enticing overall, sorry guys... Great effort doing this though!