I struggled for awhile with the second part to this little discourse. The struggle was that, to be in full disclosure, I had no idea really where I was going with the argument. I simply knew that my first part was not enough and as a failsafe I put that “Part 1” at the end of the title. I had a rough idea at what I was trying to get at, but in terms of putting something together—well I was at a loss. So I’ve decided to structure this second part in a very Hegelian manner. Hegel’s method of discourse, for those of you who do not know it, is essentially to have a thesis, then an antithesis, and finally a synthesis. For, the first part of this blog post laid out my essential problem: where have all the big ideas gone? My suggestion, if it may not have been clear, was that the increasingly factional categorization—I believe nitpicking was the word I used—of genre labels by communities of music lovers such as ourselves here at Sputnik, is symptomatic of the endangerment of these big ideas. A ‘big idea’, as I see it, is an attempt to illustrate something specific in a way that transcends experience and connects to the mind of the audience. This is not to say platitudes or other generalizations, in fact that’s the opposite of what I mean. No, a big idea is one that makes you think beyond the way you normally do.
I believe it was Roland Barthes who argued that there are two types of texts: the text of pleasure and the text of bliss. The ‘big idea’ that I, perhaps elusively, am attempting to grasp, fits into the category of “text of bliss.” Essentially, the text of bliss is one that challenges one’s preconceived and constructed truths; it is a serious ethical examination. I suppose, then, that my thesis would be to the first extreme, and suggest that the only worthwhile music would fit into this category. Thus the only music that is valuable is that which challenges the accepted understanding of its contemporaries. Suddenly I would not need an iPod with much file space because I could very easily narrow down the music I listen to a select group: Shostakovich, Bartok, Debussy, Miles Davis, Dave Holland, and if I’m feeling generous, perhaps some Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, Talking Heads, and Radiohead. Essentially there are always a few artists who transcend their contemporaries, and therefore they are the only ones who are worthy of any attention at all.
But I love pop music just as much as I love challenging music. And in fact, is there even any necessity for music to be challenging at all? Music, after all, is the lowest form of art (let me explain). This isn’t a criticism so much as a statement of fact if we are to take the old argument from Sir Philip Sidney and say that art gives pleasure and informs. Music is just noise, really, and has absolutely no ideological or educational function; for example, Lenin and Stalin’s idea of creating strong, nationalistic music is really a construction. Nothing about music has any real weight to it; lyrics are not music, they’re poetry. So if we simply construct meaning and give it to music, then why even bother having big ideas? Why not just stick to catchiness, a nice melody, or the original idea of folk music as being a communal experience. So in this sense, is club music our generation’s folk music? That’s sort of a scary thought, but then again folk music is meant to be populist.
Yet, I go on a bender of disposable indie pop, or dance music, and suddenly I have my palette cleansed and I put on Henryk Gorecki, or Battles (who are a nice combination of pop and avant-garde, which is very rare indeed). The synthesis, then, may seem like a cop-out: we need to mix our musical diet! Oh, how very egalitarian of you, Keelan, but pardon my French when I say NO SHIT. I agree, it’s an obvious sentiment, but it brings me to the final point that I think I’ve realized is my main gripe with our present circumstance. We seem absolutely fixated on ignoring the big ideas, and ruining the balance. If everything is disposable, then we’re allowing a degradation of an art form. Pop is fun, and that easy type of music can sometimes, just sometimes, be as cathartic as the challenging stuff; but we need to continue to push the music somewhere or else we’ll spiral down into an abyss of stagnation. The biggest excuse for the apparent lack of this push is that we’ve seen it all done before. But as I said before, originality is not necessarily sounds that we haven’t heard before, but rather it is the way those sounds convey an idea that marks something as original. So the suggestion that we’ve all “been there, done that” is utter nonsense. In fact, that’s the laziness I feel has led us to be so mired in trying to find new genre tags so as to create a sense of faux-originality.
There will always be room for fresh, big ideas—unless we actually are apart of the gyre; but I really, really doubt that. Sorry, Yeats.




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keep em coming
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But I do agree that certain music is a cut above, transcendent of genre. I don't necessarily agree that ELP fit that category (haha I loves me some ELP but they're no Godspeed, for example) but I like what you were getting at there.
I'm probably not making any sense at all. Basically, I agree with you, maybe not 100% about it being art in the lowest form. Either way, this style of writing fits you well; I loved both write ups.
04.02.11
not sure whether I agree or not... I've just never really thunk it that way before
as for the rest of the write-up... I mean the idea is certainly intriguing, I'll have to read it a few more times maybe before I get a better handle on it, but what I really enjoyed here, again, is your writing style. it's effective yet not overwhelming... nice and casual, but still specific, I love it : )
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Willie's look the prettiest though
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highly debatable.
regardless this was fucking excellent Keelan. Gotta run but, ugh, lots to talk about.
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he sets his parameters pretty clearly
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Anybody who says that music is the lowest art form has clearly never listened to Colors by Between the Buried and Me.
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but I mean...I'll just do that now.
h5.
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My only gripe is calling music noise as that would imply it being, to quote a dictionary "the auditory experience of sound that lacks musical quality; sound that is a disagreeable auditory experience" but then again that's just nitpicking and I don't feel as this is exactly what you meant with calling it "just noise". Music is still something that we don't understand, why don't even know how or why it's something we enjoy and even have "created". Music isn't even just vibrations of air, much rather a sensory stimulation produced by the brain. It's something more similar to light. Light is something we cant see directly, our eyes must be stimulated first, then this stimulation (which change in frequencies, much like music) creates an effect of light in the brain.
Sorry to babble about this but I find the more scientific aspect of music quite fascinating. Also loved the point of calling club music our generation folk music.
04.02.11
he sets his parameters pretty clearly" ??
"^although that convoluted an explanation is probably not gonna help, it's still a pretty sound explanation" ??
"also, pretend i logged in as an alt:
Anybody who says that music is the lowest art form has clearly never listened to Colors by Between the Buried and Me." ok good I was worried for a second.
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There are certainly issues with the idea that we've 'been there/done that' but I strongly disagree with your assertion that it's nonsense. The idea of originality being something that engages with what has come before, and doesn't waste time trying to come up with something that appears entirely 'new', is probably the best route we can take, and probably the one that would offer the most worthwhile results. I mean, fuck it, Shakespeare stole plots, characters, even actual passages from other people, but he took average works and made them into timeless works of genius. There’s no reason that people can’t do this with music, but there is a palpable feeling of saturation that music drags with it in this age. No matter what you do, what sounds you make, someone will be able to name ten bands/artists that have done almost exactly the same thing. Forging originality through intertextuality is possible, but when the previous body of work dominates the present, it becomes harder to achieve. That the internet has made all types of music immediately available to everyone means that the world is not only vastly more aware of what has come before, but also generally blasé when something big happens, because the past (along with all its failed big ideas) is constantly visible. Even if you came up with a big idea in music today, the chances are that the majority of your fans would slot you into their itunes library, buy your t-shirt and brag about the vinyl they just ordered.
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Also, good point about the genre-tag being a young western male audience phenomenon; but at the same time, really, I'm writing for this exact demographic haha
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YeaH!
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so long, Phleb's responses have caught my attention
The subject you're up to is huge and I agree with many points you've brought up. What I believe is that the idea of originality is a partly-flawed one, at least it has been misinterpreted by critics and artists alike. It's in fact a difficult concept that requires a wide spectrum of knowledge and awareness of past and present events, in order for something to be signified as innovative. This approach is maybe what has caused so much discussion, and comes from what I believe is another simplification of the dialectical structure which implies thesis-antithesis-synthesis. The Hegelian formula is better conceived in the concept of something " being and not-being at the same time" , in which refusal and affirmation are present without the chronological succession the aforementioned thesis-antithesis-synthesis model implies.
Thus, the Big Idea is nothing more than an unfolding hidden concept that waits to be revealed under certain circumstances. All this musical relativism can be understood under the prism of history in which music labels, great composers and grand maestro's work in order to unveil these specific notes that we'll later put in barriers.
So, in conclusion, what I'm trying to say is that it's difficult to find proper standards so as to categorize music though it's value. Subjective and objective criteria will always play part as well as aesthetic stances. Barthes division seems quite interesting to me.
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Isn't this more of an attempt to reach out to a community? If you label something as innovative, you're bound to get more people to recognize you. That's why a lot of new users start off with a review such as that one. Whether we realize it or not we're constantly seeking someone's approval, based on what I've seen and experience on and off of this website.
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You must be hating this blog then
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man, some of you genre-tag naysayers would have a heart attack glancing at my iTunes haha... the playlists, genre tags, song ratings, and general order of it is scary-- weird considering how incredibly disorganized I am, generally.
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the only time genre labeling annoys me is when it's done by pure listeners and critics, and done with authority. genres simply aren't what art is about, good artists usually understand this.
in Steiners "Real Presences" he imagines a society where the only type of "criticism" is the production of more art in response. that's what I think is valuable. listeners and critics bickering is not important
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But genres are simply inherent to art in all of it's various forms anyway.
I disagree with the statement about genre nit-picking being a young-male-from-the-west problem, when the same raging arguments happen about 'modern classical' and it's credibility as either genre or broad descriptor between older critics and academics. The same arguments have always been around, and still go on with classical purists arguing over neoclassical vs neobaroque, and whether they are necessary, when different periods end/begin, hell they even place importance on which country or school they came from even if two artists were from the same period. I think it's really just a problem which comes with the territory; criticism and analysis encourages this kind of classification.
As for big ideas (might as well stick with classical here), a wise man once said "I claim the distinction of having written a truly new music which, based upon tradition as it is, is destined to become tradition." Arnold Schoenberg sure did have incredible influence, and had the largest idea of 20th century classical music, but is all music atonal? No.
In most musical circles, The Beatles, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, James Brown etc are held as the greatest musical figures of the last century, when really, they took a lot more from tradition and did nothing as drastically different as Schoenberg.
I guess what I am getting at, is that people can be too afraid of big ideas, especially in music, and like it all to be quite digestible at the same time. Kind of Blue was a somewhat revolutionary jazz album, but it is in no way hard to listen to. If anything, it's very easy to listen to.
It is merely a product of the commercialised times that we live in, that big ideas seem scarier and scarier to the general populous. There is now great ways in which small independent artists can reach a large audience, and allow niche markets to have strong followings, but while giving a broader range of music to the world, we dilute the possible effect a big idea can have.
I don't think it's too extreme to argue that we will never be affected as radically as we were throughout the 20th century.
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I guess what I am getting at, is that people can be too afraid of big ideas, especially in music, and like it all to be quite digestible at the same time. Kind of Blue was a somewhat revolutionary jazz album, but it is in no way hard to listen to. If anything, it's very easy to listen to. "
Big ideas can be digestible! They don't have to be "drastically different".
"Arnold Schoenberg sure did have incredible influence, and had the largest idea of 20th century classical music, but is all music atonal? No."
Before I learned who Schoeny was I experimented with atonality. Twelve-tone technique is not a better big idea than one of Miles Davis' trumpet solos. Schoen, Stockhausen (and others) did stuff that few people will ever want to hear. Big ideas aren't necessarily unpleasant to most people. I like what you're bringing up, but I think you're holding dissonant music on too high a pedestal.
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