Satriani's song "lacks originality" which therefore makes it okay to copy it.

I don't think that's what it meant, I think it's that he used such standard chords that someone was bound to use the same ones eventually.

I know really. I'm not really taking a side, but to respond by saying the song "lacks originality" is like the dumbest thing they could say.

Even if it's a predictable chord pattern/melody, it still was an original song.

I don't think they stole it though. I think Satch is a big booger-head.

Nah that's a pretty retarded comment, it definitely was an original song and the similarities are a little too suspecious here...it's not like RHCP Danny California and Petty's Mary-Jane. One's a simple case of repeated structures, the other simply takes the exact structures and transposes them onto another song.

I don't like the way Satch is handling this either, but I'll stop short of saying what I think of coldplayThis Message Edited On 04.07.09

It's not that common of chord progression. I want to look at both and actually put them back to back. I'm a music theory/education major so i know that i should be able to pinpoint what both are actually doing.

There's a reason why I can't picture Chris Martin lounging back listening to Satch's 'Is There Love and Space' and tuning in particularly to the song 'If I Could Fly,' thinking to himself, "Wow, what a great guitar line. I should use this in my next platinum single!"

Next to not giving a shit if it's copied or not, this is one hell of an unprofessional and plain dumb statement to make. At least they're no longer pretending they actually bring something original to the table.

who stole what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-jEdBqbbE

who stole what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-jEdBqbbE

Ohh shit they gon get it on now.

I think Viva la Vida sounds much more similar to If I Could Fly than If I Could Fly sounds like that song.

I'm surprised The Cure hasn't sued them for Green Eyes yet

Yes, they are similar, but I don't think they are similar enough for a lawsuit. They are as similar as Megadeth's "Peace Sells" is similar to Nine Inch Nails "The Hand That Feeds" (listen to the "If there is a new way" riff and compare it to the main riff in the NIN song). They sound kind of alike, but I don't think they ripped each other off.

Anyway, "Viva La Vida" is the closer Coldplay has ever gotten to write a good song, as it still is a pretty mediocre song

Joe kinda looks like lord Voldemort...

Joe kinda looks like lord Voldemort...

This whole thing is being blown out of proportion imo

The chord progression is pretty much the same from hearing. The melody is very close too. Somebody told me that this isn't the first time Coldplay have been accused of this. I'm going to see if that is true.

^ apparently you haven't heard all the stupid Radiohead comparisons.

Joe kinda looks like lord Voldemort...

The chord progression isn't the issue, you can't copyright a chord progression. To win the suit Satriani would have to prove his melody line is unique and that Coldplay used a melody that is almost exactly the same.

They really are pretty much the same thing. If you line the songs up on different tracks in an audio editor like Pro Tools, and play them both, they sound the same, just that Satriani's has louder guitar.

Different melodies, different rhythms, different songs.

Haha ^

Alright, I'll admit the Cat Stevens song hurts Satch's case - despite the similarities being nothing compared to the Satch/Coldplay ones, but this whole argument has taken up far too much time, I'll be glad when it's finally over with one way or another

"Coldplay's music lacks originality, therefore since it sounds like Joe Satriani's, he must lack originality." Never really cared about this at all, but I think Satriani is really only doing this so people will listen to his music.

The fact that Coldplay's record label pushed youtube to remove the comparison videos of the two songs speaks volumes.

^ hey whadya know, we agree for once.
Don't forget the publicity as well.

FREE PUBLICITY!

if you know anything about satriani the last thing on his mind is "I need more publicity"

If I know anything about my generation, nobody gives a crap about Satriani.

So, uhh, yes he does if we wants to be "relevant."

Even if he won the suit it's not like Coldplay would lose anything more than one or two night's performances worth of money...

Stop bashing Satriani. He's an incredibly "relevant" guitarist who has influenced many shredders that exist today. Honestly he has more technical (and in my opinion, musical) talent than all of Coldplay combined.
I don't see why he would need publicity, he's going to go down as one of the greatest guitar players in history.


As far as Coldplay stealing his song, I don't really buy it, but the comparisons are pretty incredible.

Dude, don't get the wrong impression. I love (revere?) Satch and his godliness, but he really doesn't have much relevancy in pop culture today outside of the fanboy, dinosaur rock fans.

Alright, I just thought you had the wrong impression on what Satriani's intentions were in filing his suit.
Just my opinion, also.

"The response went on to state that Satriani's song "lacks originality."

Haha so what's that say about the coldplay song? It's twice as unoriginal?

Honestly I've seen a step by step breakdown of both songs. The songs are far too similiar for it to have "accidentally" been stolen. The tempos for the two songs are almost identical and the chords and notes match up almost perfectly between the two. No, I don't really doubt they ripped the song off. Coldplay really isn't a very good band to begin with and it honestly doesn't surprise me that they have to rip off a major hit.This Message Edited On 04.08.09

they still sorting this shit out?

I love Satch and I really liked Coldplay's Viva La Vida, to be honest both of them are in the wrong. When an artist or someone in management points out to a band that one of their melody's sounds very similar to another artists, most people who are honest refer to the melody on their albums credits to not get into this mess.

However until Satch confronted Coldplay about this they appeared oblivious. But instead of negotiating peacefully Satch went out guns ablaze. He complained that they had "ripped his song off" asking the band to publicly announce it. I can understand why Coldplay reacted in the way they did and why both artists are now settling this in court in a "Battle of the Ego's"
This Message Edited On 04.08.09

I don't think it gives satch any more publicity than the fact that he just released his first line of distortion, delay and wah pedal. I don't know why he is suing because nothing is going to come out of it, he has a point, but i don't think it's all for publicity.

It is my opinion that anybody who truly believes Coldplay deliberately lifted this melody is a moron.

That makes Joe Satriani a moron, as if that weren't already evident.

ur an idiot, what made it evident that Satch is a moron before this, just for making incredible instrumental/guitar albums for the past 20 years? Makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Cat Stevens: the root of all evil.

no matter how bad coldplay is, they'll never touch the plagiaristic capabilities of Sum 41.

anytime you think you find one of their riffs catchy, is cos someone else wrote it first

Joe Satriani is a hack. Yes, he may be a great guitar player, may be "one of the greatest that has ever lived", but he isn't a great songwriter. To be honest, I find that Viva La Vida sounds more like Heaven than If I could Fly. And judging from the utterly trite title of Satriani's song, it's safe to say the actual song is hardly original. Anyway, if Coldplay plagiarized someone, it's probably Cat Stevens, who is a talented songwriter. Viva La Vida is the worst song on the album anyway.

You must have great knowledge in music theory to make a statement like that. What makes him a bad songwriter? Does he not follow traditional voice leadings? Does he use parallel 5ths or direct 8ves, or maybe consecutive 5ths by contrary motion in his compositions?

I never hear these things in his songs, but you must and i would like to hear your professional knowledge of how music should be written, should he trade in traditional tonal music for free atonal, or maybe strophic form? Possibly the use of dissonant counterpoint, or maybe the 12-tone technique?

Fucking ignorance...This Message Edited On 04.08.09

Satriani's a moron because of how he's handled this lawsuit. The guy's clearly a prick. I'm just waiting for him to sue me for this comment.

Corpse and Apostle are getting way off track.

Satriani's a moron because of how he's handled this lawsuit

Just realised the opening piano of The Scientist sounds like Don't Look Back In Anger. QUICK, SOMEONE KICK UP A SHIT!

^I'm going to assume you're joking and not just stupid...but you can't copyright a chord progression, just a melody. Here, coldplay did both.
I'll say it again, doesn't anyone else find it strange that coldplay's record company was all over youtube and forced them to remove every single comparison video of these songs? Anyone with ears can tell that not only are they similar, but the melody is literally exactly the same...the inflections of Chris Martin's voice even mirror the accents on satriani's playing....that and coldplays producer has worked on several projects with some of satch's stage partners...but hey, I guess it could all be a big coincidence.../sarcasm.

how is it not obvious to some of you that the melody, progression, rhythm, time signature, tempo, and dynamics are 95% similar? i say 95% instead of 100% because the progression is technically different, but the chords still yield the same emotional response and are in the same key. this is a slam dunk for satch.

and im not saying coldplay maliciously did this... it definitely sounds like a song they'd write without satch's help. but you know, the law clearly states that satch is right, no matter how many hours chris martin sat in his bedroom writing it.

well, slightly.

The whole argument here is about the possibility of a coincidence not just the theory. The point is that both songs stick to convention which explains Coldplay's statement that the song lacks "originality" because the chord progression is so simple and the notes in the melody so uncluttered it was only a matter of time someone stumbled on something which sounded similar.

For example if we use this case to inspire new vigilance then Courtney Love is getting sued for a lot of Nirvana songs, Smells Like Teen Spirit's main rhythm sounds a lot like Wild Thing and Polly sounds a lot like Rocking In A Free World, heck the band freely admitted to ripping off Killing Jokes riff from the song "Eighties"

You also have to remember that Satche's If I could Fly uses the melody in question only shortly (I have the album it's on) the only thing Satriani deserves is a songwriting creditation and that is what I already have said. The man wanted to cause Coldplay a bit of bad press and so really, good for them to fight back, then again they should have just handed over a creditation in the first place. It's a 50/50 outcome I guarantee.

From what i gather on a video from youtube where they play the songs along side each other, Viva La Vida had been raised a semi - tone and been sped up slightly to fit in with Satriani's song. So if they are in different keys it makes a different melody... yeah?

Well to me it sounds like it has been changed to fit in.



;This Message Edited On 04.08.09

That's not entirely true, you can have the same melody in different keys. The melody will be the same, but the notes will be different, for example one could play say Moonlight Sonata (which is in C# Minor) and play the same melodies and song in general in A Minor.This Message Edited On 04.08.09

Even if it's in a different key the chord progressions remain the same. I believe the Coldplay song is like a VI VII III i and the Satch song is a iv VII III i, but the VI and iv chords have the same kind of feel to it so in essence it's the exact same progression. Even so you can't copyright a chord progression, but the vocal melody in Viva La Vida is strikingly similar to the solo in the Satriani song. You could argue the whole thing either way though, there's no clear way to determine whether they ripped him off or not.This Message Edited On 04.08.09

Thats very true. Though i was slightly just trying to favour Coldplay. Since i have become a fan of late!

I just want to comment on the people who think that all Coldplay have to do is to prove that it isn't original and they have won the case.
Thats not true at all, if they prove that it isn't original they are actually going to hurt their case because it seems like then they are no longer denying copying it, instead it seems like they are saying, well we didn't mean to copy it, it just is so simple and sounds good.

No, they can prove that the sound isn't original. The emotion, the rise and fall of the voice or guitar in Satch's case. They would have to prove that not only is it unoriginal, but also that the song or songs that they use against Satch saying its unoriginal also give off the same vibe. If they don't then it is still stolen. There have been numerous cases that set precedence up for this.

Maybe in your terms that's what original means but in court Coldplay are reasoning that the song is too CONVENTIONAL to be unique. Why? because both songs have regular chord progressions and use few notes. The band have not even ripped off Satche's song in a sense, the melody he wants the band to pay up royalties for lasts approximately 25 seconds (including the small extra jam a few seconds after it) give or take and it's 25 seconds in a 6 minute 32 second song.

Man, we will never know where they got their inspiration from.. damn.

You must have great knowledge in music theory to make a statement like that. What makes him a bad songwriter? Does he not follow traditional voice leadings? Does he use parallel 5ths or direct 8ves, or maybe consecutive 5ths by contrary motion in his compositions?

I never hear these things in his songs, but you must and i would like to hear your professional knowledge of how music should be written, should he trade in traditional tonal music for free atonal, or maybe strophic form? Possibly the use of dissonant counterpoint, or maybe the 12-tone technique?

Well if it's so damn unoriginal then Coldplay should be able to point out several other songs that sound just as similar...if not then they're argument is hollow. Besides, "unoriginal" is subjective, unless they can actually prove that there are other songs that have the same melody; thus proving it's "unoriginality". Otherwise, anyone could take someone else's melody and just say "well it's unoriginal, you can't sue me".