Hip-hop was the offspring of rock, so I guess this is legit.

The same can be said for metal, punk, and others.

yeah. if people bitch about it though, why not just make a hip-hop branch of the hall of fame? even though i dont listen to rap, its stupid to think that the great hip-hop acts that kick started the genre and accelerated it will not be recognized.

This is definetly good news.

Well written Plath, annoy the insecure white folk, great news.

This is bullshit. Rap should not be in the rock n' roll hall of fame. It is not rock. I could understand Funk, and true R&B. But not R&B. While I don't know anything about Grandmaster Flash, they may be R&B, but Beastie Boys and Run DMC are NOT rock and therefore do not deserve do be in the RnR hall of fame.

Ah shut up.

Well written Plath, annoy the insecure white folk, great news.

This is bullshit. Rap should not be in the rock n' roll hall of fame. It is not rock. I could understand Funk, and true R&B. But not R&B. While I don't know anything about Grandmaster Flash, they may be R&B, but Beastie Boys and Run DMC are NOT rock and therefore do not deserve do be in the RnR hall of fame.

I don't think grandmaster flash and the furious five are the best choice for a hip hop group in the hall of fame, but I can't understand anyone with any real knowlege of music having a problem with this.

"how are they not rock acts?"

I absolutely HATE it when people consider every music genre as rock. They are NOT rock music, simple as that. Why do we need hip hop acts in a goddamn rock hall of fame? It doesn't make sense.

Don't get me wrong, I like some hip hop/rap/r'n'b/funk etc. but it would be the same if you induct AC/DC in a Hip Hop Hall of Fame.

its not the "rock" hall of fame, its the "rock 'n roll" hall of fame. big difference, as rock n roll encompasses multiple genres of music and itself is a hybrid of many different styles from gospel to blues to country to swing and jazz to bluegrass and hillbilly music. modern r&b, soul, funk, and even electric blues to some extent sprang from rock n roll, and hip hop/rap is an offshoot of blues/funk/r&b and most definitely resides under the umbrella of rock n' roll. it IS in fact rock n roll. if not, i wish the naysayers would explain how not? dummies...

don't make me school you fools any further....:smash:This Message Edited On 03.14.07

So much red necking going on! ha, it is a musical hall of fame, not exlusively for rock.

Bring it on, all musical genre's should be appreciated and respected!

P.S. I expect some redneck sledging.

" if not, i wish the naysayers would explain how not? dummies..."

IT'S NOT! AND YOU WANNA KNOW HOW? WELL..BECAUSE!

*make loud noises so you I can't hear you*

Country is closer to rock than hip hop and they have a separate hall of fame so I don't see why hip hop can't.

i got nothing against hip-hop, as long as they dont start putting the "bitches and ho's and bling" style hip hop bands in when they're old enough to qualify.

besides, if you don't like a band that's going in, big deal. it's a hall of FAME. fame is rarely an indicator of quality.

They use traditional rock song structures

I really hope no one loses sleep over this, because that would just be sad. Hip-Hop is in, deal with it. As Spat Out Plath said, these genres just didn't pop out of nowhere. Hip-Hop artists like Grandmaster Flash, had to have taken influence from rock artist. So it is perfectly justifiable for Hip- Hop to be included.

I look forward to seeing what other Hip-Hop artists get in to the Hall of Fame in the future.

now someone's gonna bitch about it but i don't think they should get in. A hip-hop hall of fame would be the right thing imo.

Well I can definatly see Hip Hop growing in the RRHoF. I can see Run DMC, to Public Enemy, to even Jay Z, Nas and Outkast. It's the music that moves a generation that is reconized. Not what specific genre does.

But once I see Dem Franchize Boyz and Chamillionaires, I throw in my gloves and quit.

That would be my point. None of those genres formed in isolation.

I really hope no one loses sleep over this, because that would just be sad. Hip-Hop is in, deal with it. As Spat Out Plath said, these genres just didn't pop out of nowhere. Hip-Hop artists like Grandmaster Flash, had to have taken influence from rock artist. So it is perfectly justifiable for Hip- Hop to be included.

I'll concede this point if you admit metal is the same way.

Listen to Licensed To Ill. You're wrong.

If you say Soul and Funk belong so should Hip Hop. When it comes down to it, the evolution of Hip Hop started with Soul and Funk.

^^its not just about how influential an act is, its the impact they had even more so. and not just on other bands or musicians, but on culture and society.

rock n roll is more then music. its a movement, an ongoing living thing that is in a state of flux. always creating, always searching, hopefully always moving forward and breaking down barriers. if it were just about how influential or original and act is no one would be in because more then any other type of music rock n roll is an art form where everyone takes from everyone and shares what they have. its not meant to be so precious.

rock in roll is loud, abrasive, up against the wall music. its also fun, sexual, political and social. once in while their is an upheaval within the genre and bands/artist come storming through. the best and better of these bands/artist whose work stands the test of time are considered for a spot in the hall of fame. if anything their is a glut of them, not a lack thereof. and the message of The Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame should be the message of rock n roll itself. Which is everyone is welcome, we are all inclusive, and everyone has a shot who has shown what they did was somehow important not just to music, but to what rock n roll is as a living, cultural movement. it's not a perfect thing, and the organization itself is controversial. but if rock n roll isn't forever (and it may very well not be) in 300 years it will be good for people to have a place to reference it and understand what it was all those years ago. and it will be good to see diversity, spirit, and community within that dusty museum if that time comes.

so as a wise man once said "long live rock, be it dead or alive". and as someone else once said about rock 'n roll "nobody wins unless everybody wins". thats the true spirit of the music and any "hall of fame" museum should carry that forward. black, white, grunge, punk, metal, indie, whatever. rock 'n roll knows no bounds. and its certainly not about "quality", exclusivity or simple influence. indeed it is much, much more.... This Message Edited On 03.14.07

well, amen to that

myspace tells me some bad stuff is going down in here.

If you say Soul and Funk belong so should Hip Hop. When it comes down to it, the evolution of Hip Hop started with Soul and Funk.

Little Richard, James Brown, Dr. Dre, 50 Cent

And I could say rap is just funk with a great vocal and rhythm emphasis. Neither explanation tells the whole story.

who cares if hip hop was allowed into the rock n' roll hall of fame. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch over this you really need to be more open minded.

who cares if hip hop was allowed into the rock n' roll hall of fame. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch over this you really need to be more open minded.

It's a close minded statement so you're looking close minded.

You'd be surprised how similar they are.

I took a Rock history class and it included hip hop. I learned that rap started with toasting. DJs would stop the vocals on songs and let someone grab a microphone and rhyme over it. All of you nitpicking over influences and such maybe that should help.

I think hip hop artists getting into the RnR hall of fame is fine. There's enough ties IMO to rock in hip hop to allow it.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is ‘dedicated to recording the history of some of the best-known and most influential artists, producers, and other people who have in some major way influenced the music industry, particularly in the area of rock and roll’ (Roger Friedman. Rock Hall of Fame Fallout: 'There Is Resentment Building Up, FOX News, 2001-04-04).

Therefore, to be accepted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the inductee must have influenced the music industry in a salient way, predominantly in the genre of rock and roll. When considering whether Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five should have been inducted, it is imperative that the aforementioned be considered.

Firstly, Grandmaster Flash is a hip-hop musician and DJ; one of the pioneers of hip hop. Hip hop music, also known as rap music, is a style of music which came into existence in the United States during the mid-1970s, and became a large part of modern pop culture during the 1980s. It consists of two main components: rapping (MCing) and DJing (production and scratching). Along with hip hop dance (notably breakdancing) and urban inspired art, or notably graffiti, these compose the four elements of hip hop, a cultural movement that was initiated by inner-city youth, in New York City in the 1970s (Bogdanov, Vladamir. All Music Guide to Hip Hop: The Definitive Guide to Rap & Hip Hop. San Francisco, CA: Backbeat Books, 2003).

Typically, hip hop music consists of rhythmic lyrics making use of techniques like assonance, alliteration, and rhyme. The rapper is accompanied by an instrumental track, usually referred to as a "beat," performed by a DJ, created by a producer, or one or more instrumentalists. Historically, this beat has often been created using a sample of the percussion break of another song: usually funk, soul and disco recordings have been utilized. DJ Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash both independently isolated and repeated these parts of the music for the purpose of all-night dance parties, making him a pioneer of the rave scene (George, Nelson. Hip Hop America. New York: Viking, 1998).

The 1981 Grandmaster Flash album release The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel was the first time that record scratching had ever been recorded on a record (Hager, Steven. Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music, and Graffiti. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1984). Scratching is still of great importance in determining the skill of a DJ. Today, in recorded hip-hop songs, it is common to have a scratched hook where lines from different rap songs are scratched in succession.

Grandmaster Flash is therefore quite important as an influencer for a generation of acts to follow as he provided the musical backbone for rappers to perform to, as he brought the backbeats of disco and soul (all danceable rhythms) to the forefront. Today, rap is more influenced by the development of electronic music from early 1930s through to today throughout the use of loops, samples, drum machines and synthesizers.

The actual lyrics of rap can be traced back to the Mills Brothers; especially their track the love bug will bite you released in 1937. It is here that the Mills Brothers became the first popular act to use comedy to tap into the middle white market of the time, with the use of vocal instrument impersonations and scattering, which were invented through African American singing acts using non-sense syllables.

Although Grandmaster Flash has been of some influence in the music industry, he has very low ties to the genre of rock and roll.

Traditionally rock and roll developed mainly due to the rebellion factor, and is most popular through two particular elements; the traditional rock and roll line up – drums, bass, electric guitar and vocal, which was formed by Lester Melrose an A and R manager to use for Muddy Waters in 1941. Therefore, rock drew from elements of rhythmicized blues (Gillet, Charlie. 1983. The Sound of the City, London: Souvenir Press pp121-151).

The second element is that of the standard rock and roll rhythm or the popularity of the snare backbeat on beats 2 and 4. This was mainly due to the drummer having to play louder as back in those days the drum’s were not miked up; the drummer therefore had to play less complicated parts in order to make their part louder, and to keep up with the amplified guitars and vocals whilst providing rhythmic interest and momentum to the songs (counts 2 and 4 are accentuated by the snare either with a crotchet on the 2 and 2 semi-quavers on beat 4, or 2 semi-quavers on beat 2 and a crotchet on beat 4). This was created by Bill Haley (used mostly in the late 1950’s) from western swing influences and was also heavily used by the Beatles (Longhurst, Brian. 1995. Popular Music and Society. Polity Press: Cambridge pp.94-107). Grandmaster Flash did not incorporate and creatively innovate any of these particular rock and roll elements.

These two elements are only a minor part of what defines the genre of rock, however these two elements are not apparent in the genre of rap; there is no backbeat (unless it is a scratched loop derived from an existing song) and the line-up mostly contains electronic units i.e. a dj with 2 cd players, cd’s and a mixer with a vocalist and back-up dancers.

The closest Grandmaster Flash comes to rock is funk, in which he is not a pioneer of this genre, nor has he influenced the genre greatly such as the likes of Prince or James Brown. His biggest influence for the rock genre comes from Audioslave guitarist Tom Morello, who is known for his scratching-inspired guitar solos, which he creates by rubbing his fingers on the strings over the pick ups with and using the pickup selector switch on the guitar, typically run through a wah or auto-wah, and one or more envelope filters.

Grandmaster Flash has contributed greatly to his genre of music, not rock and roll. However, rock and roll is not an all important factor when being inducted into the genres hall of fame. With that, unfortunately a lot of great acts in the rock genre are neglected by the system, making the hall of fame loose some credibility. Maybe the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame stands for something important to an era, like rock and roll was to the 50’s, 60’s even 70’s or Rap was to the 1980’s and 1990’s. Most seem to be worried that the ramifications of this particular induction will floodgate the hall with a bunch of mediocre rap artists. However, majority of rap artists have not influenced the industry to such an extent or have not been successfully selling records for over 25 years.

Written by Jay. Sorry for such a long post, just wanted to say everything.

Last time I checked Rock N Roll came before Hip-Hop. So why are they putting a Hip-Hop act in the RnR hall of fame?? How exactly did HH influence rock?? I agree that they should make a HH hall of fame. Leave the RnR hall of fame for Rock.This Message Edited On 03.30.07