ArsMoriendi: WORLD TAG?

ArsMoriendi 03.25.23	Also I guess what artists should I help tag Funeral Doom, since at least that's actually a genre
JohnnyoftheWell 03.25.23	Hilarious that we get funeral doom before death/doom, but hey at least the tags are still coming I agree that world music kinda sucks as a tag, but it can be fairly useful on sput as a second/third tag behind Folk and sometimes Jazz for genres like bossa nova, enka and klezmer just as a concessional "hey we don't have the right tags for this" dummy label But fuck knows I'm not about to get out there spamming the site with it
Sunnyvale 03.25.23	Slowcore when? Yeah, funeral doom and melodic black metal are kinda funny additions given the limited nature of existing genre tags.
ArsMoriendi 03.25.23	Genres we've voted for that we're still waiting on specifically: -Disco -Trap -Slowcore -Vaporwave -Screamo -Garage Rock -Dungeon Synth -Krautrock Genres we've voted for that we got: -New Wave -Synthpop -Noise -Djent -Deathcore Genres MX has given us that no one asked for: -Atmospheric Black metal -Melodic Black Metal -Funeral Doom -World
el_newg 03.25.23	all music is from the world :)
Cimnele 03.25.23	not mine
dedex 03.25.23	world tag sucks, agreed. i need the skronk tag!!
MoM 03.25.23	“ not mine” [2] In need of a scenecore tag I wanna know how my nostalgia ranks in the charts
AsleepInTheBack 03.25.23	For a website that doesn’t rep enough non western music, World as a tag may be a helpful stepping stone towards scrapping it and getting more specific, but I feel like you almost need a gateway tag if that makes any sense. I get that conceptually it’s a dumb tag for the reasons outlined by ars, but may be practically helpful as a necessary evil.
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	cringe
ArsMoriendi 03.25.23	On a more positive note: 17 bands are now tagged funeral doom, which bands should be tagged that?
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	we have a funeral doom tag? Why are there no announcements for these things
Demon of the Fall 03.25.23	What? This actually happened? I thought you were here to discuss the merits of potentially adding it and was gonna be all like nah, that’s a silly idea for a genre tag Ars 😄 Also, Funeral Doom is fine I guess, doesn’t seem overly important compared to what’s still missing but perhaps if we’re patient then more will be coming our way
Calc 03.25.23	mx is known for timely updates of his site I think this will work
porcupinetheater 03.25.23	Fucking gross, Ars you read David Byrne’s piece on how self-congratulatory and imperialistic the idea of “world music” is?
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	'World music' could of had some utility if instead it was only used to describe the newer amalgamations of non western music. Such as Gabriels Passion, Alice Coltrane's Universal Consciousness or Lou Harrison's Pacifika Rondo. RYM essentially has a less problematic and western including version of the term in the form of 'Regional Music'
ArsMoriendi 03.25.23	I have porc! It formed a lot of my opinions on the term. For those curious, here is David Byrne of Talking Heads', famous for incorporating African folk styles into his rock music, opinion on the term: https://archive.nytimes.com/query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage-9901EED8163EF930A35753C1A96F958260.html
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	^ thanks for the link
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	I'd rather it was deleted too, but at least I can tag gamelan with something other than classical now
Demon of the Fall 03.25.23	‘Hilarious that we get funeral doom before death/doom, but hey at least the tags are still coming‘ Is death-doom important? Most bands can just be tagged with both, making their style obvious enough, no? Rare that you’d need it as one all-encompassing tag
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	No they are not interchangeable, there is just a noteworthy amount of overlap. Death doom is less niche than funeral.
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	Also when did we get Atmospheric Black metal?
foxblood 03.25.23	most world music is often recorded with the intent of selling it to the foreign market though, usually the euro market. Issa Bagayogo for example I would call 'world' music because his work was pushed by six degrees records in the west and his only recorded shows that I know of were on british television. Something like Ata Kak I wouldn't call 'world' music because it's just lofi dance house music made in mali intended for locals
JohnnyoftheWell 03.25.23	"I feel like you almost need a gateway tag if that makes any sense" this only works for positive, inclusive categories (e.g. "electronic", "queer"); world music is a gross othering category in the same ballpark as "foreign" and "exotic". like, it can still be vaguely useful as a classification tool (purely bc this stupid site has so few of these available), but actively starting a Horizon-Broadening Walk Of Musical Erudition with quote-unquote world music is a gross poison chalice that should never have been in the conversation foxblood raises an interesting point though - using it as a term for foreign music actively produced to tick whatever preconceptions importing countries have of their aesthetics and styles would be great, if it weren't already overused to the point that people will still confuse it with the real deal
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	It turns out that my comment of what the term 'should' have meant is compatible with the original philosophy behind the term, coined by Robert E. Brown. https://symposium.music.org/index.php/29/item/9510-world-music-past-present-and-future
AsleepInTheBack 03.25.23	I mean you could pick another gateway tag (I.e. the regional music compromise RYM seems to have gone for) but (for better and clearly worse) world music already has enough traction behind it as a recognised term to be a helpful label/way of identifying things, even if I completely agree it has icky self-congratulatory/imperialistic overtones - I’m saying if we’re only gonna get 1 geographically linked genre tag (which, given how the parcelling out of new tags has gone so far I think sounds likely) then it’s better than nothing: BUT obviously ideally better to scrap it AND get appropriate, specific, non-generic tags for each school of non-western music. If someone is willing to pool together a sensible list, send it to mx, and actually get him to do something about it, then please do that would be sublime.
porcupinetheater 03.25.23	Tagging Boris as world music
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	" BUT obviously ideally better to scrap it AND get appropriate, specific, non-generic tags for each school of non-western music" The issue with that is that there are too many of them to list, so including them will break this website.
Demon of the Fall 03.25.23	‘No they are not interchangeable, there is just a noteworthy amount of overlap. Death doom is less niche than funeral‘ I could maybe agree to an extent, but with how restrictive Sput’s tagging system is, I think that’s asking a lot to have a separate death-doom tag in all honesty (although funeral doom doesn’t seem particularly important and I certainly wasn’t comparing the two’s necessity). maybe this will be pointless debating because we’re getting ALL the genres 😄
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/cumr/1900-v1-n1-cumr0468/1014442ar.pdf
GhandhiLion 03.25.23	I'd agree with you that the funeral doom tag is preferable if death doom wasn't such a deceptively weird genre. (it's not just death metal + doom equally) There's different strands of death doom. e.g Winter and Katatonia weren't death metal but diSEMBOWELMENT and Sempiternal Deathreign were. In the case of funeral doom tagging all of the bands with doom is always correct.
ArsMoriendi 03.25.23	Honestly, I didn't mind folk holding up the mantle I guess some broad ones like "Latin" would also work
Ryus 03.25.23	lmaooooooooo bruh mx what r u doing fam
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	HOLY FUCK MX JUST ADDED A BOSSA NOVA TAG lol i guess that's sorta good actually thanks MX, why do you hate disco?
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	Wait so like should bossa nova cover samba/tropicalia/MPB or not? Man if he added Samba instead it'd be so much easier since that's broader gahhh
pizzamachine 03.26.23	Sputnik: begs for tags and offers human sacrifices to mx Also Sputnik: wtf is this, I didn’t want these tags, what’s wrong with you mx
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	Well duh, we don't just want tags for the sake of having tags That's like asking for Radiohead tickets, receiving Meghan Trainor tickets, and some guy being like "well you asked for tickets!"
pizzamachine 03.26.23	True dat but is a good meme lol
SharkTooth 03.26.23	Mf will add world music but nobody even considers a Latin music tag wtf
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	I mean Latin would be useful as fuck, but I guess underdoing it with world and overdoing it with bossa nova will have to do
porcupinetheater 03.26.23	Kaatayra - Bossa Nova
porcupinetheater 03.26.23	Meghan Trainor - Bossa Nova, World, Atmospheric Black Metal
JohnnyoftheWell 03.26.23	bossa nova tag based shibuya kei tag is just one step away
Purpl3Spartan 03.26.23	I need this tag for my Israel Kamakawiwoʻole jams
Jasdevi087 03.26.23	normalise tagging americana and britpop as world
Parallels 03.26.23	yo mx, add the tag for april fools but call it earth music
Demon of the Fall 03.26.23	‘HOLY FUCK MX JUST ADDED A BOSSA NOVA TAG‘ WHOA! This is actually happening guys, next level Sputtacular. We have arrived… this is emotional! 👍🏻🥹
Borracho 03.26.23	My partner runs a music platform and they were recently in a big dust up with their board of directors about the whitewash of the term World Music.
Mort. 03.26.23	better to have world music until we have all the specific names for regional folk music which we will likely never get anyway, twenty more metal subgenres please
pizzamachine 03.26.23	I may wait forever for symphonic metal
Ryus 03.26.23	mfw we still dont have a tag for one of the most popular genres today
MoM 03.26.23	Funaná will get the justice it deserves someday 😤
Ryus 03.26.23	i was talking about balani show actually
MoM 03.26.23	I’m so behind the times i don’t even know what that is https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ
GhandhiLion 03.26.23	"Balani Show," these street parties began in the late 90s it's dad rock don't worry
GhandhiLion 03.26.23	https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/belgian-techno/
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	Repeating this: should bossa nova cover samba/tropicalia/MPB or not?
Mort. 03.26.23	calling the imaginary bossa nova expert of sputnik
neekafat 03.26.23	Of all the tags smh
anat 03.26.23	delete all the genres just have rock and metal
MoM 03.26.23	Delete all genres [2]
Borracho 03.26.23	Should bossa nova cover samba/tropicalia? Aside from them coming out of Brazil, there’s nothing tying them together. Should metal cover electronica and folk?
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	I mean samba influenced both tropicalia and bossanova to my understanding Prob why MX should've added samba and not bossa nova but I digress...what about MPB?
Borracho 03.26.23	No idea. Mpb is essentially fusion Music. It’s a moot point to a degree because yes, it won’t happen, but having thirty metal sub genres in while mashing all of the world into one category is fucking lame. And yes, samba influenced bossanova, but by the same measure that American folk and blues music influenced every guitar genre since.
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	Okay, that seems like a proper no then, thanks for letting me know since I've been tagging a bunch of artists bossa nova to take advantage of the few new tags MX give us I still refuse to use the World tag tho
GhandhiLion 03.26.23	@ars no
MoM 03.26.23	“ And yes, samba influenced bossanova, but by the same measure that American folk and blues music influenced every guitar genre since.” This is so fascinating! I’ve got so much to look into with so many genres, goddamn
Demon of the Fall 03.26.23	Cool info because I would’ve assumed what Ars had re bossanova (and possibly started tagging stuff incorrectly)
ArsMoriendi 03.26.23	I don't know ton about Brazilian music, but tropicalia (Caetano Veloso, Os Mutantes, Gal Costa) are all great Basically psychedelc pop and rock (in the case of Os Mutantes) mixed with Brazilian styles like samba etc
Mort. 03.26.23	more than genre tags i want a 'to listen' function that lets me sort by genre ive gone from a massive word document to just adding shit to spotify to making sputnik lists
MoM 03.26.23	“ more than genre tags i want a 'to listen' function that lets me sort by genre” [2]!!!
Mort. 03.26.23	goodreads is a good example. i can list books in custom shelves and tag them as read, or want to read and give them a rating
9Hammer 03.27.23	I'm not sure if it was ever brought up but I was thinking about a "Mathcore" tag. Some bands I see on the site (Dillinger, Rolo, etc.) have tags like Math-rock/Hardcore/Metalcore, and I feel that it would truncate the tags down a size.
TheSonomaDude 03.27.23	New genre tags were a fun surprise after having not logged in regularly for a few months. funeral doom is an odd tag, but the rest is pretty awesome
Jasdevi087 03.28.23	nah funeral doom is clearly priorities if we're hyperfocusing on guitar genres tho, we def neef garage rock and industrial rock / metal, because there is hella misappropriation going on rn with the current tags
Emim 03.28.23	It's called earth
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	Now that we have Nu jazz… power electronics… and omfg Viking metal I think it isn’t MX anymore, it’s gotta be a hacker. I mean Viking Metal? Wtf even is that
Ryus 03.29.23	swag
Kompys2000 03.29.23	The plot thickens
JohnnyoftheWell 03.29.23	shibuya kei tag or we riot you trolling piece of shit
pizzamachine 03.29.23	Meh
MoM 03.29.23	Visual kei or we hack the site and delete the forum!
Jasdevi087 03.29.23	I feel like including visual kei as a genre wouldn't be much more descriptive than having a "hair metal" or "scene" tag shibuya kei tho
Borracho 03.29.23	Yes to Japanese Fuck Porridge being a tag! Users should have personalized tags. If I want to tag something in my chart as Clump or Fuzz, i should be able to.
Prancer 03.29.23	mathcore got added too
GhandhiLion 03.29.23	Viking metal lmao
9Hammer 03.29.23	Thanks for mentioning that Prancer. Went ahead and voted on the tag on a couple of bands.
pizzamachine 03.29.23	Power Electronics is added
MoM 03.29.23	Mathcore AND Power Electronics!? Fuckin sick
Jasdevi087 03.29.23	ok let him cook
Demon of the Fall 03.29.23	I'm overwhelmed by the urgent need to tag the shit out of everything, yet there's too much to get through. Option paralysis.
ffs 03.29.23	we should be able to tag albums with numbers, on say a scale of 1 to 5, to indicate how good we think they are
Demon of the Fall 03.29.23	nah, that'd be absurd wtf
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	STOP THE PRESSES glam rock is here Yesss
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	I can’t keep up with all these but I am absolutely gonna get glam rock up to snuff… gonna make a list later for it Maybe this troll or MX or whoever isn’t so bad
JohnnyoftheWell 03.29.23	someone make mathcore list plz this is good add
Cimnele 03.29.23	311 Blink 182 Front 242 10,000 Maniacs
Pangea 03.29.23	johnny make this list i'm counting on you
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	People should make more of these Though none for Viking metal or world, those aren’t real genres
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	Who here likes groove metal? That got added Aren’t there only like 5 groove metal bands or something tho like Pantera and maybe idk White Zombie?
Ryus 03.29.23	where in the goddamn fuck is TRAP
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	Unfortunately this troll or MX, seems to specifically avoiding the genres we voted for so
GhandhiLion 03.29.23	groove nice.
Jasdevi087 03.29.23	who's gonna get started on power electronics, that's a big move
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	Make the list Jas, and I’ll help tag
Colton 03.29.23	coltonmusic has both trap and disco and does not have world music.
ArsMoriendi 03.29.23	We now have "Instrumental Rock" and "Instrumental Hip Hop" Those are going in the same category as World and Viking Metal IE: why would anyone use that tag
SharkTooth 03.30.23	In get viking metal, Vikings are cool. But world is too broad. When are we're gonna get garage rock already?
JohnnyoftheWell 03.30.23	instrumental rock begin memes
Jasdevi087 03.30.23	why the fuck is there a hair metal tag heeeeeelp
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	Because the troll doesn't realize the actual name for the genre is glam metal?
Ryus 03.30.23	mx trollin fr
Kompys2000 03.30.23	My favorite instrumental rock band gotta be dream theater you KNOW they are rockin some serious instruments
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	Well at least we got some good ones
Demon of the Fall 03.30.23	yeah, I'd encourage anyone who thinks a tag is a load of codswallop to you know, just not use it, maybe? controversial
Elynna 03.30.23	would've gone with folk metal instead of viking metal, but at least there appears to be some serious movement in the adding of new genre tags
Jasdevi087 03.30.23	@ars I'll think about it if no one gets to it before the weekend
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Instrumental hip hop is nice and could actually be a genre as it has a traceable musical tradition. Instrumental rock is pretty dumb and purely a descriptor though. Similar to 'acoustic rock'.
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	folk metal instead of viking metal [2]
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	Art pop and disco just dropped! I call dibs on the disco tag list
sonictheplumber 03.30.23	i say we do specific countries, "world music" sounds nice but its vague
pizzamachine 03.30.23	I pop art like pop tarts
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Art pop is huge
JohnnyoftheWell 03.30.23	Sowing can i introduce you to this fantastic life hack called Get A Shibuya Kei Tag And Never Look Back Dentist HATE Me
JohnnyoftheWell 03.30.23	(also psst this heroic cull is the stuff of sunbeams but can Instrumental Rock and Hair Metal go the same way i will pay one kidney)
Mort. 03.30.23	we really should have a trap genre useful for filtering out shitty hip hop yes i am a boomer soulwise
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Based
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	Hair metal should be changed to glam metal but it should ultimately stay
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	>adds picopop instead Gigachad.png
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	Guns N Roses, Van Halen, Cinderella, Poison, Def Leppard, Motley Crue etc Hate those but it is what they’re called right
Sinternet 03.30.23	forgot to step in here, but i think 'traditional' would be a good replacement for more ethnic traditions although some moron would tag traditional and doom metal for sure
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Ars first two are bait right
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	My pipe dream genre tag is baroque pop tbh
Mort. 03.30.23	wait how long have we had jam rock ?
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	“ First two are bait right” Nah they’re just the more respected bands in the genre
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	That's wrong @mort Forever I think
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	@mort: since forever, that’s not a new one
Sinternet 03.30.23	marmalade rock clears tbh
Mort. 03.30.23	ah damn ars can you please post a comment with all the new genres im getting confused/overwhelmed/frightened/mildly aroused
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Uh has anyone voted hair metal for pantera yet?
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	idk but we do have groove metal now so that belongs with Pantera at least
GhandhiLion 03.30.23	Is there a groove list in the making?
ArsMoriendi 03.30.23	I’m doing disco when I get home So idk I’m kinda letting other people do the metal ones since that’s like the furthest thing from my knowledge
Mort. 03.31.23	charts are working again aswell. no longer stuck with norma jean at the top of last years charts, and this years charts are now active
ArsMoriendi 03.31.23	Awesome! Mathcore/glam rock/nu jazz stuff has been put on meds threads so the harder artists can get their proper tags For now we focus on instrumental hip hop/disco/a 3rd genre perhaps? Someone make one for something!
Jasdevi087 04.01.23	world tag is now gone
Mort. 04.01.23	well that was quick
Get Low 04.01.23	lol
GhandhiLion 04.01.23	Well boys, we did It. Racism is no more
ArsMoriendi 04.11.23	Viking metal, instrumental rock, and hair metal are GONE Nice, thanks Sowing and maybe MX someone make the power electronics thread, it's the last domino, I don't wanna do it aaah
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.23	BLESSED and based gj everyone big mews gg mx you are troll best boss
ArsMoriendi 04.11.23	Who actually enjoys Power Electronics... I wanna say CaliggyJack what's he been up to
Ryus 04.11.23	i like how mx is completely silent about all this if it is really him making these changes 🤔
ArsMoriendi 04.11.23	Tbh I told Sowing in the meds thread yesterday that no one was gonna use those 3 genres and today they’re gone, and this was while I was also asking him to fix up the groove metal bands as per usual, so idk is it Sowing? It corresponds to Sowing more lol