ArsMoriendi: Johnny's indie census FLIPPED!

ArsMoriendi 01.10.21	idk name a ton of indie bands and what category they'd fit And yell at me for putting certain bands in the wrong cateogy
Lord(e)Po)))ts 01.10.21	I disagree with deerhunter being sweater
ArsMoriendi 01.10.21	I listen to them for comforting reasons idk
Lord(e)Po)))ts 01.10.21	Yeah but in spirit to me they are modern grind, deffs no rules
Lord(e)Po)))ts 01.10.21	They just seem too a bit too risque for sweater. Not so much lately tho
Lord(e)Po)))ts 01.10.21	"Broken Arthouse specs" deerhunter
Minushuman24 01.10.21	Built to Spill, that grind?
ArsMoriendi 01.10.21	idk them well enough, but I'd guess 1?
JustJoe. 01.10.21	damn i am sweater as fuck
JustJoe. 01.10.21	yeah they are 1 minus
JustJoe. 01.10.21	i think
Minushuman24 01.10.21	Aw shit I don't wanna switch my census category but 1 is looking mighty fine Well 1 will probably have Dismemberment plan, Sebadoh, and superchunk. Maybe 1 or 3 Unwound, June of 44, A Place to bury Strangers.
Minushuman24 01.10.21	My Dad is Dead is maybe 1 or 3, idk I'm dumb
ArsMoriendi 01.10.21	i'm putting the major post punk revival bands in 1
Colton 01.11.21	Oh god did this just become an actual thing
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Maybe? It's fun whatever it is Name some bands, I'm not the site's indie expert
porcupinetheater 01.11.21	Xiu Xiu is all of these at different points tbh
Colton 01.11.21	PJ Harvey is latte indie for people who had a goth phase in middle school
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	You don't know enough by PJ Harvey to speak on PJ Harvey, she changes drastically almost every album. Like only 3 of her 12 albums are "gothy." also, oh wow you 2'd Is This Desire? ...ugh Colton why?
Dewinged 01.11.21	I still stand by grind
JustJoe. 01.11.21	snowmine is sweater
Colton 01.11.21	you don't wanna know ars also AC is not latte at all
JustJoe. 01.11.21	sleigh bells is like grind/sweater
Colton 01.11.21	snowmine is sweater/latte imo
JustJoe. 01.11.21	yeah i was just about to edit my comment good looking out
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Colton called PJ Harvey Latte, when she doesn't fit that at all (except maybe Stories from the City), so I'll need a 2nd opinion on AC to move them
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	@JustJoe.: I'm checking a Sleigh Bells song right now and WTF it samples Funkadelic's Can You Get to That (great song)
Colton 01.11.21	listen to anything pre-Sung Tongs
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	FINE I'll move them to mixture, but their big stuff is Latte
JustJoe. 01.11.21	animal collective only became latte but honestly they operate very much outside of that i would put them in like sweater/grind/latte
Colton 01.11.21	PJ Harvey is latte indie for people who have never actually had a latte cause drinking black coffee is a huge part of their identity
JustJoe. 01.11.21	yeah sleigh bells is awesome like that ars
JustJoe. 01.11.21	pj isn’t latte she never struck me to have those vibes
Colton 01.11.21	undercover latte
JustJoe. 01.11.21	but i only ever really heard some songs here & there & can’t quite recall which ones
JustJoe. 01.11.21	one time colton read an article where pj harvey admitted that she had heard of lattes before so she automatically is latte now
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"PJ Harvey is latte indie for people who have never actually had a latte cause drinking black coffee is a huge part of their identity" You're using latte indie as an insult, but I placed bands I genuinely like in the latte category, so uh it's not?
Colton 01.11.21	nahhh not even
Mort. 01.11.21	pj harvey cant be latte simply because of the 'Man Size' sextet version
LeddSledd 01.11.21	could Orchid count for 3?
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	wow what a twist
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	@Ledd: No idea, are they indie?
Colton 01.11.21	Orchid doesn't belong anywhere on an indie list, or a music site, or anywhere at all really
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	Landfill indie was a buzzword for generic uk indie from the 2000's
LeddSledd 01.11.21	@Ars idk, I saw some hardcore groups on the GRIND category and they came to mind. they're definitely grind with some emo mixed in, not sure about indie tho @Colton you don't like eggs stfu
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Where would Neutral Snooze Hotel go? Category 4?
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	Cigarettes After Sex are latte indie, early AnCo is sweater indie, next @Ghandhi lol yes, made extra famous by this overdefensive slog of an NME article https://www.nme.com/en_asia/features/landfill-indie-snobbery-2742436
Colton 01.11.21	latte
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"I saw some hardcore groups on the GRIND category and they came to mind" Fair, I tried to only pick ones who are associated with the indie scene, so if Orchid would fit that I'll add 'em
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	Why is the swans and melted banana on here
sixdegrees 01.11.21	Where is indie spork
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Indie kids love Swans tbh, especially their 2010-2014 stuff @Where is indie spork: Ask johnny, he made the categories, but realistically either GRIND or multiple categories at once
Mort. 01.11.21	johnny thats the second time that article has been posted on sput today lol
Mort. 01.11.21	yeah Swans was massive here tbh a few years ago. people dont seem to talk about them as much now
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	Ars listen to literally any Orchid song and tell me they fit the indie scene. Broken Social Scene, Supercar, Oasis, Pulp, Nirvana, The National, Life Without Buildings, Lydia, Metric, Mew, The Weakerthans, The Veils, Polyenso, Interpol, Ben Howard, Bright Eyes, Julien Baker, Marika Hackman, Sharon van Etten, Big Thief, The Wrens, Courtney Barnett, Stereolab, Destroyer, Hop Along and others all noticeably absent (maybe some of them are here?)
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	Paha when was the first mort? Swans and MxBx indie appeal is real
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Can you sort those cuz I've literally never heard of The Veils or Polyenso Also Nirvana? They're indie??????
JustJoe. 01.11.21	orchid the screamo band do not belong even in the comments of this thread
Cygnatti 01.11.21	!!
JustJoe. 01.11.21	lydia is like sweater/latte
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	if you're putting Melt-Banana on an indie list but disputing Nirvana, you need to change ur water supply asap
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	Really? Swans are mostly no wave influenced experimental rock and m-b are skin graft core.
Mort. 01.11.21	@johnny https://www.sputnikmusic.com/album.php?reviewid=68862&page=24#comments
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	All the indie kids I knew at uni had it big for The Seer and TBK ngl
LeddSledd 01.11.21	i think it's Melt-Banana that's throwing me off here @jotw because Fantano liked it, most of the people i know who heard of swans heard it from him
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	I already had Oasis and The National, and Joe got me to add Lydia, pls help with th others, I guess Interpol and Nirvana are obvious though
Cygnatti 01.11.21	donut put orchid on here or perish
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	@Cygnatti: I won't
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	"because Fantano liked it" ditto for MxBx I guess, and probs the reason Fetch is their only album I can vaguely jive with being here
sixdegrees 01.11.21	Name every indie band ever
Cygnatti 01.11.21	if britpop and shoegaze are on here (as well as proto-grunge), then no reason why grunge shouldn't be
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Unless it's like hip hop, jazz or metal, Fantano or Pitchfork loving it kinda makes it a little indie i guess If you sort your giant list, I'll take Melt-Banana off though I suppose
JustJoe. 01.11.21	in about 5 minutes this list will include all artists/bands ever arted/banded
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"then no reason why grunge shouldn't be" There's 0 way I'm putting Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Stone Temple Pilots or any other "more metal than punk" grunge band on here. I like all of those bands, but indie? C'mon might as well include all alt rock if we're gonna do that
JustJoe. 01.11.21	that strand of alt-rock may have appealed to a semi-indie crowd at some point like after after after the fact but they never like reached towards the indie listening environment
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	All of those bands are closer to indie rock than swans
JustJoe. 01.11.21	i agree swans shouldn’t be on here
JustJoe. 01.11.21	list needs more boards of canada
LeddSledd 01.11.21	swans shouldn't be on here [2] popularity with certain crowds shouldn't denote a genre tbh big with indie crowd =/= indie
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"Broken Social Scene, Supercar, Life Without Buildings, Metric, Mew, The Weakerthans, The Veils, Polyenso, Interpol, Ben Howard, Bright Eyes, Julien Baker, Marika Hackman, Sharon van Etten, Big Thief, The Wrens, Courtney Barnett, Stereolab, Destroyer, Hop Along" Help me with sorting this damn list Johnny posted and I'll take off Swans and Melt-Banana, but I'mt taking of Nirvana if that happens too...
Cygnatti 01.11.21	Not really a fan of putting all of alt-rock on here, but didn't what "indie rock" mean change between the 80s and the 90s? So some things that were called indie rock then don't really fit how it is used now?
JustJoe. 01.11.21	johnny get the fuck over here & sort that shit
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	i think half the point of this is that it's anachronistic af gonna make some coffee and will slap some labels. My Father Will Guide... is glorified indie rock and justifies Swans being here for me, but it is one album ?
Mort. 01.11.21	Swans are glorified mumblecore
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	Swans could be honorary soy latte https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i/GhandhiLion/1111.jpg
Mort. 01.11.21	yep
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Isn't mumblecore a film genre though?
Mort. 01.11.21	yes
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	One of the worst films I ever saw was a mumblecore film called The Color Wheel. It was supposed to be a comedy and the main characters were SUPER obnoxious, which would've worked if it was funny, but it wasn't funny at all. It tried too hard to be ironic and insightful. And don't even get me started on the oddly predictable incest twist.
Cygnatti 01.11.21	...what's mumblecore?
Mort. 01.11.21	obnoxious, trying too hard and oddly predictable is how i feel about swans funnily enough. I called them mumblecore because i feel they share the same sort of amateurish and self indulgent feel of a lot of mumblecore. (ill admit i havent given them much of a chance so am totally willing to change my mind/give them another chance )
Mort. 01.11.21	'Mumblecore is a subgenre of independent film[1][2] characterized by naturalistic acting and dialogue (sometimes improvised), low-budget film production, an emphasis on dialogue over plot, and a focus on the personal relationships of people in their 20s and 30s. '
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Pretty much mumbling indie yuppies
Cygnatti 01.11.21	sounds gay 👎
sixdegrees 01.11.21	LANDFILL: Sebadoh ????????
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	idk Minus said so, I thought it was weird, but I only know like 2 Sebadoh songs, where should I put them six?
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	alright why the fuck is early Arcade Fire down as grind. remove Lorde immediately for the same reasons you didn't add Orchid. Broken Social Scene - SWEATER/LANDFILL (varies song to song, but sweater is probs stronger) Supercar - early LANDFILL late SWEATER Life Without Buildings - SWEATER Metric - LANDFILL Mew - LATTE (or maybe SWEATER, someone help me out) The Weakerthans - SWEATER (!!!) The Veils - LANDFILL ig Polyenso - SWEATER Interpol - LANDFILL Ben Howard - SWEATER Bright Eyes - LATTE (idk about earlier stuff, let's say ANGST LATTE) Julien Baker - LATTE Marika Hackman - LATTE Sharon van Etten - RED FKING WINE (tossup between LATTE and SWEATER, someone else call it) Big Thief - LATTE The Wrens - probs SWEATER coz phero stans them Courtney Barnett - LANDFILL Stereolab - early GRIND, mid/late SWEATER Destroyer - SWEATER Hop Along - LANDFILL Advantage Lucy - SWEATER Pom Poko - LANDFILL/GRIND dredg - LANDFILL Brand New - LANDFILL Spangle Call Lilli line - SWEATER Sweet Trip - SWEATER Soutaisei Riron - LATTE Kero Kero Bonito - LATTE Madeline Kenney - LATTE Fiona Apple - SWEATER ig Minus the Bear - LANDFILL ...And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead - LANDFILL GYBE + Sigur Ros - SWEATER Editors - LANDFILL mewitoutYou - SWEATER Coldplay - LATTE i hate you
sixdegrees 01.11.21	Grind?
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	^agree for the only sebadoh alb i jammed
Mort. 01.11.21	Life without buildings!!! id forgotten they existed
Mort. 01.11.21	i would like to say that Life Without Buildings should go with the artsy fartsy indie in indie 'grind' due to their artsy fartsyness but i understand
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	i always forget they exist for a few months and then remember and have a good month! ig on this spectrum they are essentially Deerhoof ft. latte, so maybe they have the right grind quotient idk throw Big Black, Oxbow, Hair & Skin Trading Company, Limited Express (has gone?), ig Midori, maybe Lightning Bolt, probs Cindy Lee and definitely Women down in the GRIND box asap plz, shit's looking emaciated
JustJoe. 01.11.21	how could i forget women
JustJoe. 01.11.21	do i get my justjoe-core license revoked
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	@johnny: okay removed Swans, Melt-Banana, and Nirvana
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	Nirvana are a core text for indieheads, put them back
Mort. 01.11.21	speaking of oxbow, their such a fantastic band i dont see mentioned enough. Let Me A Women, Thin Black Duke and Narcotic Story are all near flawless records that have become favourites of mine over the last few years
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	eh that's saying Talking Heads is a text of indieheads who like Radiohead stuff
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	^also a valid take also where are joy division also yes, everyone jam Oxbow!! i need to jam more Oxbow!!!
JustJoe. 01.11.21	you jam oxbow
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Eh early post punk seems like it'd be pushin' it, no Heads, no Joy Divison We're only 3 steps away from including something hella random like The Stooges and I don't like it
Ryus 01.11.21	put orchid on here
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	the near-entirety of the nyc scene was shameless joy division emulation, you can put them on an indie list
JustJoe. 01.11.21	put hella on here because why the shit not i just wanna name artists at this point & opening this up to the entirety of a clusterfuck that is math rock proper would ruin everything
JustJoe. 01.11.21	unless johnny says no in which case put them multiple times 😁
Mort. 01.11.21	Dismemberment plan under landfill indie? oh lets just put braniac under there next shall we disgraceful
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	do it and take the grind label off arcade fire this trolling has gotten out of hand
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Nah I'm drawing the line there Johnny. No early goth. No Joy Divison, no Bauhaus, no Siouxsie Sioux. Also no grunge Gotta draw the line somewhere... I mean does indie even mean anything
sixdegrees 01.11.21	Landfill as in their cds belong in a landfill?
Mort. 01.11.21	im going to bed anyway now goodbye pointless list
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	right, this list is shameful and not canon and will only lead people astray for generations to come also you spelt mewithoutYou wrong
Colton 01.11.21	Protomartyr is a cool band
sixdegrees 01.11.21	This is a disaster
JustJoe. 01.11.21	indie means nothing
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	ars you have profaned indie
JustJoe. 01.11.21	yeah you perfumed indie how dare you
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"Dismemberment plan under landfill indie?" IDK they're not weird enough to be grind, they would not go over well in a coffee house so no latte, and they're not exactly warm like the sweater stuff, and they "rock out" or whatever
Cygnatti 01.11.21	"Dismemberment plan under landfill indie?" yes.
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	1980s - Indie and alternative are the same thing. 1990s - PFFT cool kids like indie, the conformists like alternative! 2000s - I mean they're kinda different, I think? 2010s - Indie and alternative are the same thing.
GhandhiLion 01.11.21	"the near-entirety of the nyc scene was shameless joy division emulation" No??!?
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	*'00s strokes/interpol nyc landfill scene
JustJoe. 01.11.21	we’re off the rails ladies & gentlemen
Cygnatti 01.11.21	this is great content, keep it up bois
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Where do I put NMH, if no one answers soon i'm just gonna put 'em in landfill
Trifolium 01.11.21	Omg now that I see this I'm so mega 4: SWEATER it isn't even funny.
Pheromone 01.11.21	so much of this wrong but is so so right - my 70/30 4/3 split was so right tho
Pheromone 01.11.21	NMH are landfill yh
Pheromone 01.11.21	Low (sweater) Pinback (sweater) Archers of Loaf (grind / landfill) Carissa's Wierd (sweater) Eric's Trip (sweater / latte and grind kinda) Swirlies (grind) The Mountain Goats (sweater) The Tallest Man on Earth (latte / sweater) Spoon (bit stuck with this one, someone help a man out) there are some other kinda big ones missing but these are necessary !
Pikazilla 01.11.21	kill 2 with fire
Pheromone 01.11.21	then we'd have no belle & sebastian ! also arab strap for 1
RadioSuicide 01.11.21	godspeed is existentialist indie what the hell is it doing in sweater smh what kinda list are you running here
Sinternet 01.11.21	these artists need moving Coldplay - landfill The National, Metric, Hop Along, Courtney Barnett, Minus the Bear, Neutral Milk Hotel - latte Dinosaur Jr, The Dismemberment Plan, dredg, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Sweet Trip, mewithoutYou - grind Beach House, Julien Baker, Belle & Sebastian - sweater
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	"dredg[...] Sweet Trip - grind Beach House, Julien Baker [...] - sweater" whut
Pheromone 01.11.21	Yh thats wrong
JohnnyoftheWell 01.11.21	imma go to bed and listen to Low goodbye
JustJoe. 01.11.21	beach house is sweater-esque yeah
JustJoe. 01.11.21	at this point though i think i am just putting sweaters on all the artists i really like
Trifolium 01.11.21	Omg JOE you're HERE!
JustJoe. 01.11.21	hey trif ❤️
Sinternet 01.11.21	eh dredg fair point sweet trip head off into the noisier glitchier side a lot but they could be inbetween. beach house though is warm snuggly music and any category that has elliott smith and ben howard also has julien baker
Trifolium 01.11.21	Hi! 💕
JustJoe. 01.11.21	it’s a cold cafe that you happen to live in on the beach
Cygnatti 01.11.21	Sweet Trip in Sweater makes sense, especially if you count YWNKW more since it's a real indie album.
JustJoe. 01.11.21	a latte home by the sea
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"godspeed is existentialist indie what the hell is it doing in sweater smh what kinda list are you running here" I'm kinda taking Johnny's word over most people since he's the one who's bringing these terms to Sputnik
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Beach House is dream pop for people who find all over dream pop too weird, so I'll change them to "LATTE/SWEATER" but not pure SWEATER
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	@Sint: I moved some of the bands based on your suggestions, but others like Dino Jr., The Dismemberment Plan don't really belong in grind since "being noise rock" isn't really enough, it's more about (at least according to Johnny) the whole "anything goes" vibe, which I don't get from either band 90% of the time)
Colton 01.11.21	“and any category that has elliott smith and ben howard also has julien baker“ They couldn’t be more different
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	1 - Older indie ROCK guys would jam to it 2 - Wouldn't be out of place in Starbucks 3 - NO RULES as a rule 4 - Comforting and warm ^kinda how I'm dividing this
Colton 01.11.21	Wait a fuckin minute
Colton 01.11.21	Did you put fucking tallest man on earth in latte
Colton 01.11.21	But mountain goats are sweater... bro
Colton 01.11.21	Spoon???? Stop
Demon of the Fall 01.11.21	So according to this I scored... 5, 2, 5, 7 Then accumulated a few extra pts in the mixed bag group for Radiohead, Stereolab, Lips, PJ etc. Not sure how to feel about this. This also disagrees with Johnny’s choice of 1).
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"Spoon???? Stop" Kid A brand Radioheadcore is all getting Latte'd In fact Radiohead 2000-present is listed as latte, it's okay, some latte is good, latte isn't the "bad" category
JustJoe. 01.11.21	i will agree with beach house’s latte sweaterness
Colton 01.11.21	Putting Tallest Man in the same category as Julien Baker is extremely wrong and messed up
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	They're large categories, it's fine, I'll repost: 1 - Older indie ROCK guys would jam to it 2 - Wouldn't be out of place in Starbucks 3 - NO RULES as a rule 4 - Comforting and warm
Colton 01.11.21	If you played TMOE at a starbucks everyone would die
Colton 01.11.21	Also how tf is Spoon Radioheadcore I hate genres and this list
Pheromone 01.11.21	Imagine thinking the mountains goats are more latte than TMOE in this theoretical argument. How are u so consistently wrong cton
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Isn't Tallest Man on Earth mellow emotional indie-folk? Like Bon Iver, but with very diff vocals?
Colton 01.11.21	Tallest Man is ragged, rough, cathartic, melodious, energetic, and fast. Latte indie is supposed to be slow and more meandering. Just because he plays guitar and sings doesn’t make it latte. And TMG are latte in all ways other than lyrics
Pheromone 01.11.21	U r wrong
Pheromone 01.11.21	Listen to all hail west texas n then listen to any TMOE all hail is like a nice lo fi sweater n TMOE is like a nice sweet latte N I like both This is stupid
Pheromone 01.11.21	TMOE is not ragged rough n cathartic also lmao
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Also: can people name some more grind aren't that aren't just "noise rock" I added Jenny Hval because she's hella weird and Liars because they're all over the place
Pheromone 01.11.21	Swirlies ars
Colton 01.11.21	Have you ever even listened to TMOE
Colton 01.11.21	Neither of you should be allowed to listen to music anymore
Pheromone 01.11.21	yh a kinda unique voice doesn't make something ragged rough n cathartic Also add seam to sweater
Colton 01.11.21	It’s not about the voice ugh
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"Neither of you should be allowed to listen to music anymore" Says the dude who just 2'd The Dreaming lmao
Colton 01.11.21	Because The Dreaming is fucking awful. Anyways, back to the topic at hand Neither of you deserve Tallest Man or could even handle him if you listened to Shallow Grave
Pheromone 01.11.21	where we putting beat happening
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	"where we putting beat happening" Hmmm I wanna say Landfill, cuz that's where I'd put The Vaselines TBH for a category called "landfill" there's a shit ton of good stuff in there
Colton 01.11.21	Ragged rough and cathartic are words everyone uses for TMOE’s early work honestly
Demon of the Fall 01.11.21	Liars’ inclusion officially puts category 3 over 1 for me, nice. I would say ‘volcano!’ are 3 but then no-one actually listens to ‘em.
JustJoe. 01.11.21	tallest man on earth i have a little trouble latte-ing but i can see it at one of those quirky cafes but also where tf you gonna put him don’t say grind please don’t say grind
Colton 01.11.21	He should be his own category but he’s sweater
JustJoe. 01.11.21	uncomfortable i rather not be wearing sweater sweater maybe but yeah he don’t belong in any of these categories at all even at all
JustJoe. 01.11.21	i can get behind a category that carries my surname even if everyone in there i don’t really vibe to
JustJoe. 01.11.21	oh shit can we somehow finesse liz harris into this pretty please
Colton 01.11.21	I’m reasonably confident if you played Tallest Man at a Starbucks people would be like “ew”
JustJoe. 01.11.21	fuck starbucks tbh
Colton 01.11.21	Yeah it’s dumb
JustJoe. 01.11.21	drive-thru or gtfo
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Added some hypnogogic pop artists Mac DeMarco and Ty Segall to 1 because: electric guitary Ariel Pink and Jack Stauber to 3 because: "weird" Jerry Paper to 4 because: sad and comforting
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	Also I moved Tallest Man because Joe's opinions are cool :P
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	TBH as much as I don't like it, this list is missing indie emo stuff like American Foot Ball and Sunny Day Someone group those because I don't like them so I'd probably just callously toss 'em into Landfill
Pheromone 01.11.21	Putting Mercury rev in 1 despite making chasin a bee feels wrong
ArsMoriendi 01.11.21	I can't go by the singular songs Chasing a Bee is category 4 Meth of a Rockette's kick is category 3 but most of their early work is "rocky" and "space rock jammy"
Cygnatti 04.09.21	great list
ArsMoriendi 07.07.21	Since the Johnny census was bumped
Colton 07.07.21	fjm's not latte cause sometimes he says mean things and stuff
Ryus 07.07.21	landfill lowkey lookin good with REM the smiths pavement dino jr and gbv might need to rethink my census choices
Ryus 07.07.21	actually landfill looks like a mix of the best and worst of indie based on what you put in it
Colton 07.07.21	so we've covered who goes into what category and what bands go into what category but have we established actual definitions for these categories
Ryus 07.07.21	i strongly disagree with some of the placements here
Colton 07.07.21	as long as we can all agree grind is the worst
GhandhiLion 07.07.21	i strongly disagree with some of these being indie
Colton 07.07.21	yeah feels more like a music in general type of thing
JustJoe. 07.07.21	[retracted]
DavidYowi 07.07.21	Well shit when you put it like that I think I might be Indie Sweater
ArsMoriendi 07.07.21	"i strongly disagree with some of the placements here" Which ones
Ryus 07.07.21	ariel pink is definitely not grind belle and sebastian is probably sweater idk what godspeed is doing here beat happening is def sweater
ArsMoriendi 07.07.21	Removing Godspeed cuz you're right, can't think of why I included that one -Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti is fucked up lo-fi and jarring. It's not his solo stuff that's listed -Bell & Sebastian is about as Starbucks friendly as it gets, be honest here I'll move Beat Happening though
Ryus 07.07.21	"Bell & Sebastian is about as Starbucks friendly as it gets, be honest here" i guess, idk. bc theyre twee-influenced i associate them with sweater "Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti is fucked up lo-fi and jarring. It's not his solo stuff that's listed" yeah but i dont associate that with grind. unless grind is a catch-all for weird indie. idk what any of these categories mean so idk why im arguing anyway lol
JohnnyoftheWell 07.07.21	why are mewithoutyou in grind / daughters on this list / beach house not in latte / AnCo not in sweater / olivia tremor not in sweater / modest mouse not in landfill This system is corrupt
Ryus 07.07.21	early modest mouse def got some grind influence
ArsMoriendi 07.07.21	Landfill - indie a dad rocker wouldn't mind Latte - indie for people who just escaped top 40 radio and like cafes Grind - Off-kilter indie Sweater - warm comfort indie
GhandhiLion 07.07.21	ye where's Olivia Rodrigo
LeddSledd 07.07.21	favorite DIY bedroom indie artist
Snake. 07.07.21	landfill - 13/54 latte - 14/55 grind - 14/38 sweater - 16/45 grind wins woohoo