ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | Brought to you by, "why is the guy who made the songs "Changes" and "Life on Mars?" not tagged "pop rock"
Good songs can be pop rock |
Ryus
10.17.20 | experimental is my favorite genre |
Colton
10.17.20 | Talking Heads are arguably the most experimental band of all time |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | "Talking Heads are arguably the most experimental band of all time"
Oh honey no |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | They don't need to remove experimental. They just need to add like 5+ other genres. 'Experimental rock' being a good start. |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | "They don't need to remove experimental. They just need to add like 5+ other genres. 'Experimental rock' being a good start."
Oh fuck, I'd hate this. 0/10 idea, it'd make the problem even worse |
sixdegrees
10.17.20 | the most experimental band of all time? yeah that would be Radiohead |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | Add an actual voting system to fix the genre problem. |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | pop rock is a good choice for TH since on sput, "pop rock+post-punk" = new wave. but imo, funk is prob.
pop rock would be unnecessary on kate bush prob, since "pop+prog rock" can already imply rock. |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/David-Hasselhoff/13907/ |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | experimental is really overtagged on sput for some reason. maybe even worse than rym's "art pop" and "art rock" nonsense. |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | @Cygnatti: they're already tagged funk. Post punk/funk/experimental |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | oh true, pop rock is fine then |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | Yeah name any artist here tagged experimentl that shouldn't and I'll help tag it otherwise (accurately of course) |
oltnabrick
10.17.20 | My guess: Psychedelic? |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | Art rock is fine on rym.
"Yeah name any artist here tagged experiment that shouldn't"
Ideally all of them. But because sput has missing genres: Talking Heads, Beck, Kate Bush and Coil |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | Google implies "pop" "pop rock" and "hard rock" would be best for Hasslehoff |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | Art rock, new wave, and synthpop would be very useful genres to fix a lot of these. oh and glam rock for Bowie |
TheAntichrist
10.17.20 | is experimental even a genre? it's not clearly defined enough to be so i don't think |
Colton
10.17.20 | “pop rock is a good choice for TH since on sput, "pop rock+post-punk" = new wave. but imo, funk is prob”
TH being called new wave is not a sput thing, they’ve been one of the main new wave groups since the term was invented, Brian Eno himself said that’s what he referred to them as and there’s videos of people at their concerts saying “Talking Heads define new wave, whatever new wave is that’s what they are” etc etc. Not that those people are authorities on the subject necessarily, but it’s not a sput thing |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | Glitch |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | I mean new wave is a thing, and Sput's userbase acknowledges it, it's just not a tag
Talking Heads, Blondie, Devo, Tears for Fears... etc |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | "experimental is really overtagged on sput for some reason."
I see it a lot on hip hop artist pages. we really need more hip hop sub-genre tags |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | Yep. Jazz Hop please. |
Colton
10.17.20 | I honestly think we need fewer genre tags. Especially for metal |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | Nah, we just need this site to update and recognise genres other than metal. Singer/songwriter isn't even an option. |
Tyler.
10.17.20 | ok
|
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | I get the whole "we need new tags" and even agree, but let's also try to make artists more accurate with the ones we have too because MX updates and rare :/ |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | Haha tag all of the "experimental" artists other (accurate) things! WARRRR
No troll tagging though pls mods might ban you for it |
Orb
10.17.20 | Sput's paltry swath of genre tags is simply depressing. |
porcupinetheater
10.17.20 | the fourth most tagged genre on Radiohead's fucking prog rock lol |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | @Colton, I was saying that since sput doesn't have an actual new wave tag, we simulate one by using two tags: "pop rock + post-punk"
hip hop doesn't need any more tags smh (except like instrumental hip hop, i guess). I hate the tag "experimental hip hop", the bar is set so low. you have zany, experimental electronic or rock albums that are never called "experimental rock" or whatever electronic genre. but plain hip hop with a off kilter beat" and industrial production choices is somehow "experimental hip hop". |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | "the fourth most tagged genre on Radiohead's fucking prog rock lol"
prog rock being used as a stand in for art rock is fine by me. |
Colton
10.17.20 | ohh my bad cyg |
Colton
10.17.20 | I'm a broken record with this but genre debates suck because they force you to place music in broadly categorized sections while ignoring the qualities that make an artist/band unique, people put so much effort into it but ultimately you walk away with nothing other than a vague idea of which artists/bands are sorta similar to other artists/bands. And I'm pretty sure this would be a more prominent thing if we had tons of super specific genre tags like RYM |
BlazinBlitzer
10.17.20 | Interesting list and I agree with most of these. |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | "hip hop doesn't need any more tags smh"
there is literally one hip hop tag on sputnikmusic dot com: hip hop |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | yes, and there doesn't need to be any more except maybe instrumental hip hop |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | What about "trap" though? That's a pretty distinct one |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | well what other options would you suggest to prevent the experimental tag used too liberally for hip hop artists? |
Colton
10.17.20 | ok I take back everything I said, we need more tags. Trap and drill should be on there |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | trap would be a good tag to add, but it's also a tricky one because trap can also refer to a style of EDM. Hardcore faces this same issue actually |
farmerobama
10.17.20 | We still need the Krautrock tag |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.17.20 | Not everything needs 3 tags |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.17.20 | "I'm a broken record with this but genre debates suck because they force you to place music in broadly categorized sections while ignoring the qualities that make an artist/band unique, people put so much effort into it but ultimately you walk away with nothing other than a vague idea of which artists/bands are sorta similar to other artists/bands. And I'm pretty sure this would be a more prominent thing if we had tons of super specific genre tags like RYM"
First of all more genre tags = less vague ideas of what things sound like, not more vague
Second of all, your idea of how liberally "experimental" should be used contradicts all of this as it renders the term virtually meaningless |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | "Not everything needs 3 tags"
True, but that doesn't stop "experimental" being a common default third tag for some annoying reason |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.17.20 | Then again, you didn't even know what jungle was until like a week ago. guess more genre tags just makes things more vague for people who only know like three genres total |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.17.20 | @ars yeah I know |
ArsMoriendi
10.17.20 | I stopped tagging things experimental unless they're at like the Diamanda Galas level of WTF for the last few months and I say others should too
I'm still scarred from listening to The Divine Punishment, that thing is ungodly |
Colton
10.17.20 | "First of all more genre tags = less vague ideas of what things sound like, not more vague"
I see why this makes sense on paper but I think more genre tags would cause people to describe music more in terms of its genre, instead of actually finding their own ways to describe it. And even with more specific genre tags, genres are always fairly vague. People will just debate what genres an album is and complain about people calling it a genre that they feel is inaccurate.
"Second of all, your idea of how liberally "experimental" should be used contradicts all of this as it renders the term virtually meaningless"
not really sure what you mean honestly, the term experimental is fairly meaningless, it doesn't convey a whole lot. It's a vague adjective in the context of music, which is why I don't think you can definitively proclaim bands that make a conscious effort to experiment and have a unique sound are not experimental. But that doesn't mean I think it's a great word to describe music |
Ryus
10.17.20 | being nitpicky is fun and its helpful on rym |
Colton
10.17.20 | yeah I'm not saying they can't be fun or useful, just saying they don't make for very interesting or substantive discussion |
AnimalsAsSummit
10.17.20 | If this site had more than 10 genres we might see less of the “experimental” tag |
hal1ax
10.17.20 | certain people will always shackle their descriptions of music to the realm of genre, regardless of the availability of more versatile tags. and having a more protean and specific genre-tag pool to choose from would only promote easier and more efficient music discovery. one of the many reasons why discovering new music is so much more preferable on rym is because of the availability of hyper-specific subgenres and correspondent genre charting |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | "Not everything needs 3 tags"
True, but you can only apply genres to artists and not individual albums. A third tag is often just for an outlier in an artists discography. |
Avagantamos
10.17.20 | bands like Ulver and Boris could arguably use more than 3 tags |
GhandhiLion
10.17.20 | Yeah. |
Cygnatti
10.17.20 | there should be up to 3 tags per album and not per band yeah :] |
Ryus
10.17.20 | "having a more protean and specific genre-tag pool to choose from would only promote easier and more efficient music discovery. one of the many reasons why discovering new music is so much more preferable on rym"
big agree |
Jasdevi087
10.17.20 | individual album genre tags or bust imo |
Jasdevi087
10.17.20 | also no one tags shit like Tom Waits with "rock" cause no one wants that shit on their pie-chart |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | No one wants the TRUTH
cowards |
sixdegrees
10.18.20 | mr. bungle: clown metal |
Jasdevi087
10.18.20 | clown music as a broader genre to encompass Oingo Boingo |
bloodshy
10.18.20 | "trap would be a good tag to add, but it's also a tricky one because trap can also refer to a style of EDM. Hardcore faces this same issue actually"
hardcore punk
hardcore metal
hardcore techno
happy hardcore
would that fix it? |
Avagantamos
10.18.20 | never heard of hardcore metal or hardcore techno, but I think hardcore punk and hardcore EDM would suffice |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | Isn't "hardcore techno" called "hardstyle" or something and not "hardcore techno"
|
Kompys2000
10.18.20 | My sexual orientation is rym's genre tagging system |
Colton
10.18.20 | Young Thug is experimental and trap |
Avagantamos
10.18.20 | I think hardstyle emerged from trance |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | Oh |
rellik009
10.18.20 | I'm wondering real hard about what could have inspired this list. Hmmmmm. |
Dewinged
10.18.20 | Not gonna read all the comments but did anyone said already that none of these is experimental? lol |
rellik009
10.18.20 | ooh that's a hot ass take Dewi |
GhandhiLion
10.18.20 | It's the correct take. |
botulist
10.18.20 | is the point to whittle genres to five hyper-broad categories? because music grows, so do its subgenres, it's supposed to get more complicated.
also Remain in Light is post-punk and afrobeat (a big genre that should be represented, as a basic example). |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | @Dewi: I agree for most of them and that’s kinda the point of the list since they’re all tagged “experimental” when honestly none should be except maybe like Zappa or like Coil? |
GhandhiLion
10.18.20 | It's not afrobeat or post-punk. But it does have elements of both. |
Colton
10.18.20 | Listen to Harambe by Young Thug before you claim to know what experimental means |
AnimalsAsSummit
10.18.20 | "new music is so much more preferable on rym"
last couple years i've been a rymer first, sputniker second. one of my favorite sites of all time. |
Ryus
10.18.20 | yea their db is imperfect obv but much better than sput. makes music discovery a lot easier. lotsa good lists too |
Jots
10.18.20 | you could drop "experimental" from all of these artists and it would somehow make things more accurate
imo literally every artist that has any creative process of their own "experiments" (albeit some more than others) so the tag would be redundant if not for the fact that "experimental" music is thing in its own right as an aside. examples would be things like musique concrete or microsound or tape music etc. where artists are actually experimenting with sound design as the basis of their art |
WeepingBanana
10.18.20 | I think for the betterment of internet based music discovery, fixing tags won’t do nearly as much good as fixing users who make lists with the same touché amore album 100x yet have never listened to poison idea |
Jots
10.18.20 | oops my mouse slipped, sry ars |
Jots
10.18.20 | also once again weepingbanana being the low-key hero this site doesn't deserve |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | I was wondering lol |
hal1ax
10.18.20 | But what if those boring users fix themselves through a better discovery system? |
Ryus
10.18.20 | poison idea m/
RIL has some big time afrobeat influences idk wat ur talkin about tbh |
Jots
10.18.20 | ril was based on Fela Kuti (thought this was, like, common knowledge for this album). you could argue the extent to which afrobeat permeates ril but it's not a ridiculous take at all to hear elements of it in the album |
Emim
10.18.20 | Replace it with bunglecore |
Colton
10.18.20 | I think people are saying that despite incorporating afrobeat influences and sounds, it's not considered a fully afrobeat album, and therefore "is NOT afrobeat." unless they just didn't know about what the album was influenced by and decided to give a take on it anyway, but I'm gonna choose not to believe that |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | That's why the rating system on rym is great because the separation between primary and secondary genres helps distinguish between something that is, for instance, primarily afrobeat and something that might just have some afrobeat features / influences |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Also [2] everything jots has ever said |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | Been looking at RYM's genre tags and their concept of "primary" and "secondary" is actually awesome and very accurate hmmmm |
Jots
10.18.20 | @colton - well yeah, but I was defending ghandi who said it had elements of it |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Rym genre tags are based and a fact |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | How are they determined? I'm curious |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | Update: Miles Davis just lost his "experimental" tag on Sputnik
I guess this list did something |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | "How are they determined? I'm curious"
FACTS and LOGIC |
Colton
10.18.20 | ars what have you done. you monster |
Colton
10.18.20 | I experimented this morning and put hummus on a bagel it was pretty good |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Whomsts alt is that |
Colton
10.18.20 | My friends think it’s weird |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | I love hummus, but hummus doesn't love me
allergies to chick peas |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | "My friends think it’s weird"
Suburbs huh |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Lol wtf |
Ryus
10.18.20 | how is that weird it’s literally just hummus and bread |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Hummus and the thing it was explicitly made to pair with |
LeddSledd
10.18.20 | hummus and chips you mean? hummus and bread is wack |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Thanks for the lesson on bread it was very illuminating |
MillionDead
10.18.20 | If sput got a genre overhaul it'd also need a PIE CHART overhaul. I still miss my little grind tag on the end lol. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | I like how the one thing mx has done to the site in the last decade is change the one thing that didn't need fixing |
Colton
10.18.20 | I also put cheese on it |
hal1ax
10.18.20 | woah ok now that's just crazy |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.18.20 | Heresy |
ArsMoriendi
10.18.20 | Maybe like feta |
Colton
10.18.20 | cheddar, feta, goat. anything but swiss or mozzarella really |
BaloneyPony
10.19.20 | Experimental bagel ideas: what about like a mustard, pickle, peanut butter thing topped with some caviar. |
ArsMoriendi
10.19.20 | Ew, peanut butter is gross |
LeddSledd
10.20.20 | imma have to agree with Ars on this one |
BaloneyPony
10.20.20 | I prefer sunflower seed butter actually |
ArsMoriendi
10.20.20 | Never heard of that, hmmm
Almond butter is decent |
bloodshy
10.20.20 | If experimental wasn't a tag, I'd never have been "it" in college. |
MillionDead
10.20.20 | I love all nut butter tbh |
bloodshy
10.20.20 | Nutter Butters are the best. It's like busting a nut in the butter. |
MillionDead
10.20.20 | I would never bust a nut in butter. Seems like some kind of sacrilege. |
bloodshy
10.20.20 | There's some margarine for error. |
ArsMoriendi
10.21.20 | Very punny |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.21.20 | Ghee-sus christ that was a bad pun |
ArsMoriendi
10.22.20 | The Velvet Underground might be the most poorly tagged band here
Like if it were up to me they'd be tagged: rock/psychedelic/folk. Their tags pretty much completely ignore their 3rd and 4th albums just because they influenced noise rock on their first 2 (like 2 songs at that on their first one...) |
Colton
10.22.20 | Velvet Underground is more punk/r&b |
ArsMoriendi
10.22.20 | Punk I can see because of proto-punk but r&b?????
Explain yourself please |
Colton
10.22.20 | I mean it's kinda self explanatory. I don't think anyone in this thread would disagree |
ArsMoriendi
10.22.20 | Technically the edible part of a peanut, almond, and cashew is the seed part, so aren't all peanut butter substitutes and peanut butter itself made from seeds?
Sorry, I'm terrible, but it's true :| |
Colton
10.22.20 | did you guys know extra creamy peanut butter is a thing? discovered it like a week ago blew my mind |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.22.20 | Is that what they call the viscous paste they scrambled your brains into with an egg beater? |
Colton
10.22.20 | no it's like regular peanut butter but creamier. it comes in one of those jars with the bears on it |
ArsMoriendi
10.22.20 | I just looked up the extra creamy peanut butter and holy shit those bears are going to haunt my nightmares
Their smiles are so sinister |
PopsicleBob
01.23.21 | this kid said beck is hip hop and i checked this whole thread for ONE person to call him out on it |
ArsMoriendi
01.23.21 | Beck raps, uses samples, and turntable scratching on a ton of his albums
Beck obviously makes hip hop sometimes (especially on Odelay, Guero, Mellow Gold, and The Information) |
sonictheplumber
01.23.21 | fartin? |
PopsicleBob
01.23.21 | @arsmoriendi google "what genre of music is beck" and you will get alternative/indie. the closest he gets is que onda guero and that is hardly hip hop. hip hop is scarface, wu tang, ll cool j, rakim, gang starr |
PopsicleBob
01.23.21 | lots of genres have rapping, samples, and turntable scratching............ |
ArsMoriendi
01.23.21 | I mean Beck’s whole schtick is that he does a ton of genres
But like hip hop for a tertiary genre for him makes sense |
PopsicleBob
01.23.21 | i...guess |
