JohnnyoftheWell: UK Politics

JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	List is recent purchases, parties are ranked in order of preference (although this doesn't mean very much after 2), anyone who can work out the reasoning behind why I paired each album with each party gets respect.
KILL 01.21.15	fuck em
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	Also, tl;dr, the Conservatives are heartless but necessary, Labour are attractive but unreliable, UKIP had potential but are not a credible party although Farage does have a healthy impact on the political scene in general, the Lib Dems are a spent force that no longer stand for anything, the Greens support silly idealism.
KILL 01.21.15	what we need is another war!
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	Against whom?
Relinquished 01.21.15	against everyone you disagree with
KILL 01.21.15	i dno the dutch or some shit, nah it was a quote from braindead. i'm making a mockery of it all! but rly i might just vote for labour cos even though they are useless they arent total cunts, lesser of two evils. and ukip are a joke
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	I would rather declare war against the Rolling Stone and leave everybody else to keep their opinions.
KILL 01.21.15	the war against page 3 is a crime, rip fuck the sun though in general
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	You sly trickster, KILL ;] I can't bear the thought of Miliband becoming the face of the UK, amongst other things, but it's basically a process-of-elimination vote :[
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	Fuck most of our newspapers
ResidentNihilist 01.21.15	I remember reading somewhere that there's a good chance that we may end up with political chaos this year due to no one party being able to form a majority/coalition. Personally I'm going to vote for Labour because of their policies regarding the NHS and the mental health act. Also I don't think having some form of idealism in the government is bad thing despite the shark-like nature of politics as that kind of hatred of it is one of the big reasons why our society is so fucking overly cynical and intolerant. Basically tl;dr NEXT
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	Oh yes, we're headed straight for a hung parliament and imo the two most likely outcomes are Labour/Lib Dem or Tory/UKIP coalitions, with the former slightly more probable...we shall see though. I agree with the idealism point to an extent, but UKIP and the Greens are far past that extent for me.
ResidentNihilist 01.21.15	Agreed. The crazy thing is a lot of this could've been avoided if there was at least a concerted effort to actually upgrade our political system, like a couple of years back with that bill the lib dems tried to push through, and now we're going to be feeling the consequences of not doing anything about it. True I think it's all about how much idealism is implemented, if it's the right amount it could work. Honestly it would just be nice to have a political system that's less apathetical on both sides.
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	Oh yeah, the AV had potential, even it would have been pretty inefficient. I find FPTP very frustrating, especially since I find myself pushed towards voting tactically just because of the nature of my constituents and their regional popularity. It would be, and I very much hope to see one someday.
ResidentNihilist 01.21.15	True about that AV, it was ineffective but it could've been a good first step. Yeah that's a big problem too fptp just doesn't represent the whole spectrum of views as well as creating an unhealthy political hegemony that's basically lead to the apathetic relationship between politician and voter these days. Proportional representation could be better as though it's more unpredictable at least the votes actually count and could help a lot in restoring some confidence in the voting system. I think the change will happen soon though especially as we're coming to a political climate where it's becoming a necessity just like it was a 100 years ago incidentally.
JohnnyoftheWell 01.21.15	I would agree with proportional voting, but I'm not sure when we'll see anything drafted; the main parties are certainly comfortable with FPTP as their source of power. The apathetic relationship is also the responsibility of individual MPs, and I think some of them do a very good job in engaging with voters, but there's still a lot of room for overall improvement.
zulop 01.22.15	Your UKIP section is just hilariously ill-informed. The rest I would agree with however.
anarchistfish 01.22.15	If I vote it'll be green. Probably wouldn't bother if it weren't for them.
Tunaboy45 01.22.15	David Cameron is going to be unemployed soon so that can only be a good thing
anarchistfish 01.22.15	Your political opinions scream "I'll eat up any bullshit the British media throws at me"
thacoconut94 01.22.15	LOL nobody votes Green Party so that's that. I don't hate the Tories but I don't like the Tories either so I won't be voting them. I won't be voting for labour because I don't believe in giving money to people who don't work for it, fuck the unemployed by choice. Gonna have to be ukip
anarchistfish 01.22.15	"LOL nobody votes Green Party so that's that." they have more members than both UKIP and the Lib Dems
thacoconut94 01.22.15	You're shitting me? The greens have more members than lib dem? Fml
JohnnyoftheWell 01.22.15	"Your UKIP section is just hilariously ill-informed." In what way? "Your political opinions scream "I'll eat up any bullshit the British media throws at me"" I consider that unfair, considering how much I scruitinise the media and discuss with others. In particularly don't think that my views on either UKIP or the Greens are in line with the general slant the media puts on them, but if you have anything to add to what I've written (expediently) here, I'd be glad to hear it. "they have more members than both UKIP and the Lib Dems" True, but fewer constituents (than the Lib Dems defo, not sure about UKIP).
JohnnyoftheWell 01.22.15	Yeah, the Greens overtook both of them on membership quite recently.
thacoconut94 01.22.15	That's ridiculous. I'm not liberal democrat in the slightest but the country wants the greens over ukip? Ridiculous.
zakalwe 01.22.15	All these parties (bar the sanctimonious, living if the UK had a population of 28000 individuals with one brain cell Greens) are exactly the same. Zak's Socialist Peoples Party is coming in I tell ya!!
anarchistfish 01.22.15	Your views on UKIP equate to the general media ideology that led to their rise in the first place. I.e. blaming immigration and benefits for economic troubles. Think you should be much more suspicious of Nigel Farage than you seem. All politics is image and he's no different. People don't like to hear it but UKIP share a lot of similarities with the right wing/far right/nationalist parties that always seem to spring up in Europe during times of economic hardship. I don't think the EU is a particularly big issue either. Not when you compare it to other things that the media hardly ever mentions. "True, but fewer constituents (than the Lib Dems defo, not sure about UKIP)." Hard to judge. Most people would expect UKIP to do better but not many people expected the recent surge the Greens have experienced.
thacoconut94 01.22.15	You have my vote Zak
anarchistfish 01.22.15	aaaand it's time to abandon thread
JohnnyoftheWell 01.22.15	@fish Ah, I get you - let me expand; I can see that my assessment in the list was a bit unclear. I don't blame immigration for economic troubles on the whole - I think that the benefits and services issues are valid ones but that immigration is more help than harm (and that our services need attention regardless). I do think that integration is a pretty serious social concern, but immigration as an economic one is not. Perhaps you're right about the way I should view Farage, but I still consider him a healthy political force on the other leaders; I certainly do not trust him, but that goes for the others too. I wouldn't want him as an executor, but he does make us question aspects of society that other parties are generally complacent about (i.e. he is right to flag up the impact of multiculturalism, but his way of dealing with it is heavy- handed to say the least). I think the EU is a fairly big deal, especially in regard to our primary industries.
JohnnyoftheWell 01.22.15	Oh crap, I wrote all that just to see you'd abandoned the thread.
InfamousGrouse 01.22.15	On the bright side, the more seats Labour win, the less we have to worry about a SNP presence in Westminster. dat lowblow
Trebor. 01.22.15	vote Waldo
menawati 01.22.15	1. Period of Tories to try and repair the damage of overspending Socialists. 2. Period of overspending Socialists. 3. Go to 1 thats uk politics They got to cut the scots out of voting on english stuff tho thats just taking the piss
zakalwe 01.22.15	Farage is that bloke on the train home from the city who is so pompous you find it hard to believe arseholes like that exist. Milliband is the fella at school who was a nervous wreck and fucking useless at everything and in retrospect was probably diddled. Clegg is the bloke who comes from the family we all would have liked, kitchen always smelling of baked goods, family activities and finger painting but when you went round there you always thought it was a bit weird and oppressive. Cameron is the prick at work who thinks their some form of educated elite cos they got a 2:1 in some bullshit that contributes nothing. These are the respective 'leaders' of parties whose policies say nothing. Fuck em
sonictheplumber 01.22.15	i dunno much about the parties outside of labour and tory but i'd pick labour between the 2 i mean wtf do the tories even campaign on? "vote for me and you can pay 300 bucks for a flu shot again. freeeeedom!"
sonictheplumber 01.22.15	ive never even heard of the parties in 3 and 5, im familiar with the american green party which is like far left so is the british version of that like, a communist party or some shit? cause even yalls torys are to the left of our democrats
JohnnyoftheWell 01.22.15	"Please don't vote for UKIP." Don't worry, I have no intention of doing so. The sputengine screwed up the second question mark. @zak I laughed; very accurate. @sonic The Tories' current campaign is basically for more austerity/economic growth, EU renegotiation, boosting employment and small business, and cutting abuse of welfare. 3 and 5 have only really become serious forces over the last two/three years; UKIP is a right-wing eurosceptic party who want to tighten up on immigration majorly and regain legislative independence from the EU (ie leave), your Greens sound pretty similar, and ours aren't quite Communists :P
JohnnyoftheWell 02.03.15	I hate to resurrect this thread, but this interview is too good not to share: http://youtu.be/5dFn8RIXOBE?t=4m20s
zakalwe 02.03.15	Fucking hell. The most contradictory and baffling party in existence and that's saying something!
Wolfhorde 02.03.15	"the BBC has estimated that up to 50% of all British legislation originates in Brussels" That is such an irrelevant statement given the various forms of legislation, also: seriously? More special privileges within the EU for the U.K.? Yeah, no thanks. I also think you don't really understand the complexity of immigration, all this "GIVE US AN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM LIKE CANADA HURR HURR ALL THESE BENEFIT SCROUNGERS ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY" is pretty much populist rhetoric and simplistic reductionism at its core.
Wolfhorde 02.03.15	Also, individual politicians of certain parties are often more sensible on certain issues than any party-coherent pabulum. (i.e. Cable's criticism of TTIP)
zakalwe 02.03.15	I think you've disappeared up your pabulum Wolfy
JohnnyoftheWell 02.03.15	"I also think you don't really understand the complexity of immigration, all this "GIVE US AN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM LIKE CANADA HURR HURR ALL THESE BENEFIT SCROUNGERS ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY" is pretty much populist rhetoric and simplistic reductionism at its core." I agree that the benefits issue has been way exaggerated (but is still an issue) - my issues with immigration are primarily integration or lack thereof and secondly drain on public services (including, but not mainly, benefits).
ResidentNihilist 02.03.15	wolfehorde hording the wolves and bringing the truth. the whole scottish independence issue is being reduced to two toddlers screaming at each other over a bar of broken chocolate. This is in relation to the SNP getting into parliament. As in regards to the immigration there's an issue but the general populist view of it is generally self-absorbed, delusional bs.
anarchistfish 02.03.15	"I agree that the benefits issue has been way exaggerated (but is still an issue) - my issues with immigration are primarily integration or lack thereof and secondly drain on public services (including, but not mainly, benefits)." what wolf said still applies to that
zakalwe 02.03.15	My issues are some individuals cannot recognise that some people through all walks of life and class regardless of opportunity and education are total pond life. We live in a take take take, benefit the self society without the first thought to others which includes children. How do you change that one???? Waxing lyrical on policies, the greater good, reason over oppression, humanity and so on means fuck all when some people really are just total cunts.
ResidentNihilist 02.03.15	'My issues are some individuals cannot recognise that some people through all walks of life and class regardless of opportunity and education are total pond life. We live in a take take take, benefit the self society without the first thought to others which includes children.' People do seem to use that a lot as an excuse to act like wankers to others because in the end, they seem to believe other people are cunts and they deserved to be treated like, which just feeds into the self-obsessed culture. Honestly the problem's a much deeper one that needs to be addressed on some level.
zakalwe 02.03.15	Thats just it though dude there's no depth to it. When you've had your 5th child from the 5th dad and having found a new 'love' start to think of the financial gain of having another child things are fucked. People have gone so far down the rabbit hole their not questioning simple ethics.
ResidentNihilist 02.03.15	edited post before that due to numerous grammatical errors. True Zak, the government's current answer is only making things worse as it's making people angrier rather than actually encouraging self-awareness.
JohnnyoftheWell 02.04.15	"wolfehorde hording the wolves and bringing the truth. the whole scottish independence issue is being reduced to two toddlers screaming at each other over a bar of broken chocolate. This is in relation to the SNP getting into parliament. As in regards to the immigration there's an issue but the general populist view of it is generally self-absorbed, delusional bs." The Scottish independence issue cannot be treated as much more than that under the SNP. Ideological separatists are hardly given credit by the SNP, and circumstantial separatists have very little ground to stand on. As a citizen of Scotland, I can say with conviction that I do not want to see my country of residence (I consider myself British) go down the shitter at the hands of a government whose plans are economically unviable and are supported by nationalist trash. As for immigration, I agree that it can be treated the wrong way very easily, and that it's very important to avoid a xenophobic stance from any political perspective. To clarify further (@wolfe and @fish), I think that the best way to deal with existing issues is reinforcement of public services and improvement of integration (i.e. to deal with it internally). However, I also think that this is somewhat idealistic (particularly integration, which is one of the most complicated issues out there), and that being able to deal with it externally (i.e. through tougher immigration policies) will both facilitate the internal treatment and avoid it being compounded, since the source of the issue is ultimately immigration.