CamiloG
11.27.15 | In my opinion they can add to the whole experience if the music is good. But they can't save a bad album. They also don't have any impact for me at the time of rating an album. |
Avagantamos
11.27.15 | I only care about lyrics in hip hop |
NeroCorleone80
11.27.15 | It largely depends on the genre, but in general they're not that important for me. Its more about the vibes. |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | That's what I think. |
theBoneyKing
11.27.15 | Well you know what I think but yes they are important, very much so. Lyrics can reflect the mood of the music and vice versa. They elevate the emotional resonance of songs and can increase the conceptual significance of an album. If we weren't meant to care about lyrics, artists would just make instrumental music or would just sing melodies. Lyrics' significance does vary genre to genre, of course.
They also bear significance when it comes to rating. A rating should reflect every aspect of the work, and that includes lyrics if the work has them. |
Pennywise_M
11.27.15 | Agree with you guys. But yeah good lyrics can definitely add to the experience, not so from an objective point of view, probably more to how you conect with the music emotionally and whatnot.
Agreed hip hop def have the best lyrics. Stitches is a poet |
dbizzles
11.27.15 | they can't save a bad album [2]
But, yeah, they are like icing on the cake when they are good. |
Wolfhorde
11.27.15 | Depends on the genre, the band, the context and somesuch I will pay more or less attention. Plus I'd rather have lyrics that look "bad" out of context but are fitting/standard within their genre than some attempt at grandiose bullshit or trying to roll out a topic in a song that you're never gonna adequately deal with in that playtime. |
Archael
11.27.15 | minimal |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | "They elevate the emotional resonance of songs and can increase the conceptual significance of an album."
I can't agree more with this statement man. But from there to say they highly affect a rating is exaggerated as I've stated in the Neutral Milk thread, also...
"If we weren't meant to care about lyrics, artists would just make instrumental music or would just sing melodies."
I totally think that we are meant to appreciate lyrics but only if the work is so good that is worth sinking in its lyrics. Take for example a Justin Bieber record, is it worth the time to sink in its lyrics? I think is a matter of being selective as compared to literature, you choose what to read, you are not always in the obligation to put attention to lyrics.
|
JamieTwort
11.27.15 | Not for the want of stating the obvious but clearly it depends on the genre.
Lyrics are obviously one of the most important aspects of singer/songwriter folk for example, which is a genre that statements like "Not that important at all really. Its more about the vibes" clearly can't be applied to because, well, it usually is more about the lyrics. |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | Also, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who considers they're not that relevant, though I think that they are the center point in hip-hop and singer-songwriter genres, just to name a few. |
wham49
11.27.15 | absolutely it matters, not every song, but if your going to write lyrics at least say something, not just rhyming schemes, but things that mean something to you the lyracist, I like to think when I listen to music, that being said not everybody has to be Dylan, I love jazz and it doesn't have any lyrics |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | anyone who thinks lyrics are more important than music is a dumbass who doesnt like music |
LotusFlower
11.27.15 | lyrics can easily affect an album rating IMO, even if a song sounds good abysmal songwriting can remove you from the experience. |
Supercoolguy64
11.27.15 | music first, lyrics second
the only time they seriously matter is when they are either god awful and/or cringy, or absolutley beautiful |
SharkTooth
11.27.15 | the vast majority of the time, no. But there are a few albums to which the messages and themes to the lyrics can actually play importance into the album as a whole in terms of its quality and enjoyment
Surfjan Stevens-Illinois is one of those few albums
instrumentally it sounds magnificent, combining Surfjan's indie folk sensibilities with a backing big band that helps give the album a grandiose feel.
But when you pay attention to the themes and lyrics you notice why this album sounds so big to begin with. with Illinois, Surfjan's gone out of his way to sing about everything that has to do with the state of illinois, from UFO sightings to Superman to even the serial killer John Wayne Gacy jr. the guy's gone out of his way to sing everything that he could about the state, which is pretty much what makes the album a masterpiece imo. |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | @CL0VER What if the music is so damn good but the lyrics don't really make any sense, would you still lower the rating in that case? |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | i remember my cousin tellin me if you dont pay attention to lyrics then you just "like the beat." some rap/indie dude i know told me the same shit. i was like listen...mahavishnu shuts down every shitty band yall like with the strum of one muthafuckin string. |
SharkTooth
11.27.15 | There are other albums/songs where the lyrics can be helpful when it comes to enjoying the music but generally speaking the lyrics aren't really important |
Sabrutin
11.27.15 | they can't save a bad album [3]
That said lyrics are always important because they shape the images that pop up in your mind when listening to a song and give it conceptual value. Goes without saying that it isn't always worth the time to check them out, especially if you are not a native speaker of the language and can't understand it on the fly. Also as many have already said it depends on the genre and band. For example, albums like Depeche Mode's Black Celebration would be nothing without their lyrics, even though the music would still be enjoyable. |
wham49
11.27.15 | I guess some of the comments explain why video game soundtracks get reviewed on this cite, why cant it be both. |
Pennywise_M
11.27.15 | "Lyrics are obviously one of the most important aspects of singer/songwriter folk for example, which is a genre that statements like "Not that important at all really. Its more about the vibes" clearly can't be applied to because, well, it usually is more about the lyrics."
I'm a songwriter and lyricist, my lyrics matter for me personally, but i realise that lyrics only truly serve a purpose if the music and vocals are good. It's easy to understand that they won't be the centerpiece of a trainwreck of music, they can pass by unnoticed, it happens, and in that sense, i truly couldn't give less of a fuck if people actually read them (my lyrics). Much rather have my music listened to as a whole and the whole vibe captured, cus that's what actually makes music worth it, and eventually, it makes good lyrics be noticed. Maybe it's sad, but good lyrics don't get noticed if sung over bad music, or with bad vocals at times. Having that said, all of you are making great points, with which i mostly agree. |
LotusFlower
11.27.15 | @Camilo, i think it completely depends on a lot of different things. sometimes something sounding good can easily make you overlook weak lyrics but other times I do think its important to factor lyricism in your overall rating of an album. I think it just depends on how seriously the artist or album is trying to take themselves with their work. |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | @SharkTooth I think, in that particular case you are absolutely right man. But then again we're talking about few exceptions and particular cases. |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | i like lyrics that rock and have deep thought put into em, like deicide's first album, sodom's first album...of course professor peart. other than that who cares |
Artuma
11.27.15 | of course they are important. it just pretty much depends on the genre how big their role is |
Pennywise_M
11.27.15 | Yea overall, depends a lot on the impact of the music, the genre, bands wtv. |
RunOfTheMill
11.27.15 | the only time they seriously matter is when they are either god awful and/or cringy, or absolutley beautiful [2] |
theBoneyKing
11.27.15 | I have to say that I believe there is a small minority of albums for which the lyrics are more important to the music (Jason Isbell's Southeastern, one of my personal favorite albums, comes to mind), but for the vast majority, lyrics are less important to the overall experience, but always an important one nonetheless. |
ArsMoriendi
11.27.15 | They're important, but not as important as most other aspects (such as song structure, catchiness, whether it's annoying or not, how fun it is, talent, etc. etc. |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | @Cl0VER In that case I totally agree with you man. |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | beherit
bob dylan |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | kiss
acdc
lizzy
ufo |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | motorhead |
LotusFlower
11.27.15 | aaron carter? |
CamiloG
11.27.15 | "They're important, but not as important as most other aspects (such as song structure, catchiness, whether it's annoying or not, how fun it is, talent, etc. etc."
This is my exact feeling and taking all of that in to account if they affect a rating it'll be in 0.5/5 proportion imo. |
Aftertheascension
11.27.15 | If it's childish shit like early Bring me the horizon, than it will lower the rating. |
Archael
11.27.15 | actually jamie's right. for things like singer/songwriter, it's mostly about the lyrics |
peanut
11.27.15 | It depends on the artist and the genre really. Lyrics to a mountain Goats record can really be the cherry on the emotive cake. The lyrics on the likes of a Converge record are indecipherable but that doesn't stop their music from being fervent. And sometimes you get acts like AC/DC, Kiss or Bieber, that really just want to give you something easy to sing along to rather than mull over. And then you've got MF Doom, whose wordplay is like 60% of the reason why he's the crowning jewel of underground hip-hop. |
sonictheplumber
11.27.15 | no stop signs
speed limits |
KrazyKris
11.27.15 | They're usually very important to me. Can't name too many albums where lyrics didn't affect the rating in one way or the other (not always with a huge impact, but still). |
CynicalComplex
11.27.15 | I usually treat them like a background object in a play; they should supplement the overall "emotional resonance" (thanks, Boney, good phrase) or at least not get in the way. Jamie's right about the genre mattering; the bar for lyrical quality's gonna be higher for something like folk and lower for something like shoegaze, post-rock, or prog.
The "frosting on the cake" metaphor's also pretty apt; it's possible to enjoy a well-baked cake without frosting, but well-made frosting is a definite supplement to the flavor. However, that cheap, synthetic-tasting store-bought frosting is capable of ruining even a well-baked cake.
Examples where lyrics supplement overall effect: Idioteque, Daydreamers (DM Micic),
Examples where they detract: Goodnight Kiss (Dream Theater), most Periphery and RatM tracks |
greencorn5
11.27.15 | Rage, are you serious? |
CynicalComplex
11.27.15 | Yes. They annoy me. Sorry. |
Thibs
11.27.15 | generally don't care about lyrics, though there are times they can piss me off coupled with their shity vocal delivery eg steven wilson |
greencorn5
11.27.15 | Okay, to each their own. For me Rage would be near the top if not the top of my where lyrics supplement overall effect. |
JamieTwort
11.27.15 | "Maybe it's sad, but good lyrics don't get noticed if sung over bad music, or with bad vocals at times."
Not true. Perhaps if the music is actually 'bad' then great lyrics won't make a great album but great lyrics have often been not only 'noticed' but highly acclaimed when sung over not particularly impressive musicianship. Also with regards to vocals, your point has been disproven by some of the most respected singer/songwriters of all time. |
CynicalComplex
11.27.15 | We're cool, man. Opinion's opinion.
Rage is like Periphery for me; I'd probably love 'em if I could just sit back and listen to all the cool shit going on on guitar and bass, and I can't with Zack on top of it all; don't like either his voice or the message. Political lyrics are normally 'bad icing' for me; very few artists out there with the skill required to pull it off. |
Valkyrion
11.27.15 | I don't revisit albums because of lyrics personally so I don't judge them when I rate music |
Totengott
11.27.15 | It all depends, but sometimes they are. |
Sabrutin
11.27.15 | "The "frosting on the cake" metaphor's also pretty apt; it's possible to enjoy a well-baked cake without frosting, but well-made frosting is a definite supplement to the flavor. However, that cheap, synthetic-tasting store-bought frosting is capable of ruining even a well-baked cake."
^ This, hard. Another personal example would be Opeth's April Ethereal: I would enjoy it even without lyrics but the vocal delivery of the album's story brings it to a whole new level. |
Zig
11.27.15 | I think lyrics are important to increase music to a more personal level, I mean, the possibility to write a social commentary or tell a story, clearly 'helps' the musical side to have a structured message. Responding to your question: I listen to a lot instrumental albums, however, I prefer lyrics that reflects the 'writer/singer' personality and/or personal views, etc. |
zakalwe
11.27.15 | One well delivered line can last a lifetime and mean more than the music alone ever could. |
trve
11.27.15 | never cared about lyrics at all, except for very few exceptions |
torts
11.27.15 | I just gave flockaveli 1.5 a 4.5 so IDK you tell me |
theBoneyKing
11.28.15 | @Ziguvan: I definitely agree about that personal level that lyrics help achieve.
@Zak: Very true words, those. |
Calc
11.28.15 | in 99.3% of the music I listen to lyrics mean nothing. |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | for me, definitely. i mean, if you're gonna' add lyrics to ur albums, why not write good lyrics while at it? but if you don't, it's ok. it's not like absolutely necessary or anything
what matters to me is if the constituents of a piece of art work in its favor. to make a good piece of art, you gotta use its different aspects to make the magic happen, and lyrics are one way to do it, e.g. bjork's Homogenic |
zakalwe
11.28.15 | lol |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | i like art more than i like music tbh |
zakalwe
11.28.15 | Have you got a big book casually placed on the coffee table? |
KrazyKris
11.28.15 | The bible? |
squaaab
11.28.15 | MY YOUNG NIGGAS RECKLESS THEY SHOOTIN AT DETECTIVES |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | sachiko: sorry, tried editing to make it better, it still sucks. i'm not having my best day, and my english isn't working right now apparently |
zakalwe
11.28.15 | There's some bold statements flung about in hip-hop but 90% of it is total fucking dross. |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | bullshit lyrics can be good too! |
zakalwe
11.28.15 | So many words, so little said. |
ScuroFantasma
11.28.15 | I'd say they're not overly important, especially in the metal genre for example, but when they're good they make the album that much better, and really poor or repetitive lyrics can drag a song down. Overall I'd say they're one of the least important aspects personally, though in pop and hip hop where they're more emphasis on the vocals it matters more. |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | yeah at least u gotta make sure they don't bog the songs down |
Deez
11.28.15 | You can have a great album musically that can be let down lyrically and still be dope, The other way around thats not going to work obviously but good lyrics or more so lyrics that connect with you and mean something to you can add a whole extra dimension onto a record. Some lame ass lyrics could also just mean some deep shit to you for what ever reason. |
ffs
11.28.15 | depends |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | reading lyrics can be useful to ease into albums imo too ! |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | having good lyrics can elevate a good album to wuthering heights [!!!] |
Sinternet
11.28.15 | i think the love for lyrics stem from a love for poetry and literature, so if you're not hugely into that area then it lyrics could possibly matter less to you. personally however, i like to look at an album as a whole. it should be noted that in some genres or specific albums the lyrics are more important than in comparable works, and so how important i find lyrics in a piece of music usually correlates to it's context and artistic vision. |
Asdfp277
11.28.15 | it's a case by case thing, if they're good, cool, if they're not, well, let's hope the instrumentals, etc, make up for it!
and yeah, literature rules! >:] |
LoLifant
11.28.15 | In most cases I only care about the lyrics if the music is already good. They can make a 4 or 4.5 into a 5. |
TheCrocodile
11.28.15 | man Hep beat me to it, was about to bring up flocka |
JamieTwort
11.28.15 | "One well delivered line can last a lifetime and mean more than the music alone ever could."
I fully support this statement. |
JamieTwort
11.28.15 | "There's some bold statements flung about in hip-hop but 90% of it is total fucking dross."
I probably wouldn't go quite as far as that but I would say that hip-hop as a whole definitely isn't the best genre for lyrics like a lot of people in this thread seem to think. |
CalculatingInfinity
11.28.15 | I care far more about the structure of vocal lines (as in pacing and delievery of each sentence) and the texture of their voice far more than what they're saying. Out of everything in music it matters to me the least but there's still cases where it can affect me positively or negatively. |
JamieTwort
11.28.15 | @Hep: I think you read something in my post that wasn't actually there or you're making an assumption that I haven't heard any good rappers because I don't think hip-hop is the be all and end all of lyricism. I know good rappers exist. |
KILL
11.28.15 | i like gitars |
ShitsofRain
11.28.15 | lyrics are SHIT |
JamieTwort
11.28.15 | "judging from ur ratings u ain't heard no good rappers so wtf kinda conclusion u want me to draw punk????"
Maybe that I've heard more than the hundred odd 2014/2015 albums I've rated on here, smh. |
zakalwe
11.29.15 | "I probably wouldn't go quite as far as that"
Of course you wouldn't JT but the important thing is you get the gist, I knew you would. |
