FrankRedHot: Jose Reyes

FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Next up: Albert Pujols Marlins 2012 Champs
Satellite 12.05.11	fotflmaololwtf
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Didn't you say he was going to end up in Detroit?
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	SUCK IT NY
Satellite 12.05.11	i said he might. he still might if he wants to win in addition to cashing in.
Satellite 12.05.11	but the marlins are definitely the frontrunners right now, no doubt.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7316606/miami-marlins-agree-six-year-deal-jose-reyes Frontrunners? How about it already happened?
Satellite 12.05.11	aww shit, must've just happened, huh? last i read they'd offered him 6 yrs/110 what does that mean for hanley?
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	He's moving to 3rd.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	And wanting to win in Detroit, where there aren't any beaches and about 2% of the population speaks Spanish, or Miami, where there's beaches, boats and hos. Plus, winning in Miami can become a possibility, because more reports are coming in of Pujols and Buerhle signing soon.
ExtremeSpeakers 12.05.11	Going to be exciting
Satellite 12.05.11	in other news the blue jays' new (old) jerseys/logo almost make up for the marlins' new ones
bungy 12.05.11	M's just need Griffey to come out of retirement then championship
FromDaHood 12.05.11	Aw fuck that
lucasjcockcroft 12.05.11	reyes is over-rated, injured way to much
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Injured way too much, or getting sick of playing for the Mets? And calling a Gold Glove shortstop that's hit .292 for his career and hit .337 last year "overrated" is utterly ridiculous.
reaganomics777 12.05.11	baseball sucks
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	LOL at the Heat and Marlins becoming superpowers. At this rate the Dolphins are the next Florida franchise to go beast mode. And as much as I hate South Florida, and rag on the Dolphins, I can't complain about all these signings.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Are you serious about Pujols legitimately considering Florida Frank?
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Are you serious about Pujols legitimately considering Florida Frank?" Every single report is saying that the Marlins are willing to up their offer and that there will be an answer, one way or another, in the next 24-48 hours.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	That is fucking absurd. If this happens this will make two brokenhearted, eternally bitter states who will forever hate Florida. I find it humorous and satisfying to know that the Marlins can become a contender overnight. Still all things considered, im not a big fan of the Florida Latin population.
patman1001 12.05.11	is it just me or does Pujols not look 31
Eko 12.05.11	too bad the marlins' new jerseys are as ugly as the astros' throwbacks.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	He doesn't but his age is what concerns me. The fact that Fielder is only 27 makes me want to lean towards that option more but then again it's Albert fucking Pujols.
someguest 12.05.11	"And wanting to win in Detroit, where there aren't any beaches and about 2% of the population speaks Spanish, or Miami, where there's beaches, boats and hos. Plus, winning in Miami can become a possibility, because more reports are coming in of Pujols and Buerhle signing soon." White > Brown
patman1001 12.05.11	"He doesn't but his age is what concerns me. The fact that Fielder is only 27 makes me want to lean towards that option more but then again it's Albert fucking Pujols." That's exactly what i was thinking. I'm a cardinals fan but he looks like hes 35 years old. I don't know if giving him a 9 year deal is such a good idea.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"He doesn't but his age is what concerns me. The fact that Fielder is only 27 makes me want to lean towards that option more but then again it's Albert fucking Pujols." The problem with Fielder is that he's exactly like his father. What I mean by that is at age 27 Cecil's body weight caught up with him, and he never hit over 40 HR's in a season again. With Pujols, his power number might go down, but he will still have one of the sweetest swings in the league.
Satellite 12.05.11	agreed. i think whoever signs prince will ultimately end up regretting it.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	People don't understand that power will decline as a player ages, but their swing never goes away. Pujols has one of the prettiest swings we've ever seen, while Fielder's is a pure power swing, violent with a major uppercut. Now which signing would be a mistake?
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Good good points. He has the most awkward body type out of anybody in pro sports except maybe MJD. Pujols's ability to only strike out in the 50 to 70 range is fucking impressive. Have Stanton and Morrison bat in between him, Reyes and Hanley before him god damn son that is some real shit.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Vladimir Guerrero is the prime example. His career batting percentage of 16 years is 318. Boom.
Satellite 12.05.11	cameron maybin and andrew miller are gonna be huge for the marlins in '12. that trade was pure genius.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	I'd rather sign a 31 year old player with a sweet swing to a 9-year deal than sign a 27 year old chubbo who thinks swinging towards the moon's going to give him a long career.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"cameron maybin and andrew miller are gonna be huge for the marlins in '12. that trade was pure genius." Satty has enraged me!
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Yeah I never thought Id get over that.
theacademy 12.05.11	lol hanley will still be playing plenty of shortstop from '14-'17 but enjoy the next few years reyes is a really exciting player to have on your team
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"lol hanley will still be playing plenty of shortstop from '14-'17 but enjoy the next few years" Acad's bitterness just tells me he's dying on the inside.
Satellite 12.05.11	i live to enrage you, pit. although that same year the tigers traded jair jurrjens for edgar rentaria. :/
theacademy 12.05.11	"The problem with Fielder is that he's exactly like his father. What I mean by that is at age 27 Cecil's body weight caught up with him, and he never hit over 40 HR's in a season again." lol do u know anything about Fielder's last 3 seasons?? haha TRUST me, his weight will not be a problem.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Satty, that trade doesn't comfort me in the fact that we gave up the 2nd best hitter in baseball for a pitcher who needed Prozac just to be on the mound and a CF'er that can't hit a ball out of the infield.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"lol do u know anything about Fielder's last 3 seasons?? haha TRUST me, his weight will not be a problem." lol do u know anything about his family's history or the history of an overweight power hitter? THEY FADE
patman1001 12.05.11	Great points pit, and Prince will definitely not be like Jim Thome is now that's for sure.
theacademy 12.05.11	no i'm definintely sad but not bitter (you forget i like the marlins WAY WAY WAY more than the braves or phillies) i'm just saying what we all know. if the mets weren't in money trouble, they would have given him that same deal. and they would have had to watch another player play a lot of shortstop in his place over the course of it.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Not bitter? Your hate tells me otherwise.
theacademy 12.05.11	"lol do u know anything about his family's history or the history of an overweight power hitter? THEY FADE" pretty sure cecil wasn't a cultish, fully committed, new-age vegan yoga fiend who hated his father
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"pretty sure cecil wasn't a cultish, fully committed, new-age vegan yoga fiend who hated his father" Pretty sure Cecil's not the only evidence as to what I'm saying, either.
theacademy 12.05.11	no hate, only love reyes was the best SS in the game when he was healthy
theacademy 12.05.11	no no I get what youre saying, but that decline comes in the mid 30's not at 27...
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Phillies and Mets can suck a dick. The Braves are alright. Fielders stats always fluctuate with each passing year, for better or worse. He can explode or he can be just good.
ShadowRemains 12.05.11	"Vladimir Guerrero is the prime example. His career batting percentage of 16 years is 318. Boom." vladdy's swing (at least his posture leading up to it) was a sight to behold all over the place, don't really know how the fuck he offset all that movement in his stance
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Loved his golfball tapeshots.
theacademy 12.05.11	fielder will be a hell of a player wherever he ends up
ShadowRemains 12.05.11	also this shit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOu1tEr-7U
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"no no I get what youre saying, but that decline comes in the mid 30's not at 27..." Evidence suggests otherwise. Mo Vaughn Cecil Fielder John Kruk Ryan Howard And that's just a few.
theacademy 12.05.11	Ryan Howard hasn't broken down yet? And he's 32 already addressed fielder kruk wasn't a power hitter mo vaughn didn't break down until he was 33 or 34
theacademy 12.05.11	also kruk's best seasons came in his 30s
theacademy 12.05.11	u r so owned dude
theacademy 12.05.11	i don't think that really works for your argument that signing fielder at 27 to a 5-7 year deal will be a bad thing... don't get me wrong, the Ryan Howard deal (the extension he signed) is probably one of the worst contracts after A-Rods. Seriously it's going to be hilarious. That having been said, for someone 5 years older than Fielder, and still hitting 30+ HRs, i don't know if you're helping your point
theacademy 12.05.11	u deleted ur comment!
theacademy 12.05.11	i gg man, i'll riff about baseball with u later if ur on when i get back
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	I deleted it because I wanted to restructure it. You're right about Mo Vaughn, except Mo Vaughn had a pretty swing. Prince has an ugly one. What ended Vaughn's career? Knee problems Kruk didn't really break out until his 30's, so of course he had his best years in his 30's. What ended his career? Knee problems Ryan Howard's power numbers have been declining, and he doesn't hit enough for average. Plus, the fact that Fielder's a vegan doesn't mean anything. He still weighs close to 300 pounds, and that's going to be hell on his knees. As I said, I'd rather sign an older pretty swing than a guy who's knees won't last.
theacademy 12.05.11	im right about all of them since your whole point was about fielder at 27. fielder who has never missed more than 5 games in a season. fielder who no team in their right mind would have let hit free agency if they didn't have to also worry about signing the league's MVP. also fielder is 270. also yeah, i would obviously prefer pujols because he's the best hitter of our time, but fielder would be a great signing too.
theacademy 12.05.11	extending* the league's MVP.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"also fielder is 270. also yeah, i would obviously prefer pujols because he's the best hitter of our time, but fielder would be a great signing too." So wait, what are you arguing then? I still wouldn't mind Fielder, but I'd prefer Pujols. i'm not going to go out and start a riot if they pass on Pujols for Fielder.
ShadowRemains 12.05.11	"also fielder is 270. also yeah, i would obviously prefer pujols because he's the best hitter of our time, but fielder would be a great signing too." plus pujols' defense is head and shoulders above fielder's
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	^This so fucking hard
theacademy 12.05.11	lol shut up. they have the same career fielding percentage (although pujols has played some other positions) still they're first basemen. u can't be serious pulling the defense card like it means half a fuck, especially since we're not arguing over who is better, but whether Fielder would be a great signing...
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Dude, we are arguing over who is better. If we weren't, I wouldn't take a 31 year old Pujols, would I? Sure, I think Pujols is gonna last longer than Fielder, but still, Pujols is the better option.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	And yes, the defense card does mean half a fuck, considering 1st is one of the most important positions on the field.
theacademy 12.05.11	wait i think pujols is better tho pujols = new found glory and fielder = ADTR
theacademy 12.05.11	holy shit did u ever put russian dressing on a chicken cutlet sandwich? this shit is aces
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Sounds like a chicken Reuben. Just add saurkraut.
theacademy 12.05.11	yea dam some kraut would be clutch right now clutch like pujols
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Clutch like Pujols in a Marlins uniform? I think so. UPDATE: Marlins have offered Matt Dominguez, Gaby Sanchez(a telling sign?), and 2 other minor leaguers to Oakland for Gio Gonzalez.
someguest 12.05.11	not as clutch as the homemade guacamole and mexican cheese dip I'm about to have in a moment
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	And that's probably not as clutch as the prosciutto-wrapped pork tenderloin with rosemary apple sauce I'm making for dinner tonight.
someguest 12.05.11	I'm actually having round steak and a big ass midwestern meal tonight that sounds awesome though
BigHans 12.05.11	Pujols is 100 times the player Prince Fielder is if you take all facets of the game into account. He's one of the 20, probably ten best players of all time. But that said, even he wont defy mother nature. He has 4, maybe 5 elite years left, meaning he will have 5 unelite years left on an albatross contract. It might be worth it to win a world series but whoever signs him is going to be in big trouble down the road.
BigHans 12.05.11	And there is no way he is 31.
sspedding 12.05.11	Jose Antonio Reyes - Athletico Madrid player - yeah
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Wait wait wait..... lol Hans, hold your horses. Pujols isn't just another power hitter. He's a pure hitter, which I've been saying this whole thread. Hitters like him can play well into their late 30's, because the last thing a baseball player loses is his swing, and Pujols has one of the best the game has ever seen. Edgar Martinez is a prime example. He might not have been a power hitter, but his swing was perfect and he was able to play at a high level until he was 39.
BigHans 12.05.11	I know Pit its just that hes going to be getting 25 million a year to hit .280/20/90 when hes 38. Solid, yes, but probably not at that price.
BigHans 12.05.11	Whoever gives Fielder a 130 million dollar contract is going to severely regret it.
theacademy 12.05.11	disagree
theacademy 12.05.11	and for the 100th time, nobody in this thread thinks fielder is better than pujols
theacademy 12.05.11	also what team would he sign with for only 130 that would be the steal of the century what are you retarded i thought he was looking for like 180-200
theacademy 12.05.11	tex was a worse player in every single statistical respect except for defense and he got 8 years 180 when he was older than fielder
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	UPDATE: Marlins have offered Matt Dominguez, Gaby Sanchez(a telling sign?), and 2 other minor leaguers to Oakland for Gio Gonzalez. Giving up on Dominquez like that/ Fuck..
BigHans 12.05.11	i thought he was looking for like 180-200 ^ Of course hes looking for that. I dont think he'll get it.
theacademy 12.05.11	so you're thinking he'll get a jayson werth contract?? lol you should look up fielders numbers
BigHans 12.05.11	I know what his numbers are. I think everyone knows what a colossal mistake the Werth and Crawford contracts were, and I think the market readusts a little. Maybe 130 is too low, but I would be surprised if he got 180-200
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Miami Marlins should change their names to the North Cuba Spics
BigHans 12.05.11	lmfao
patman1001 12.05.11	"UPDATE: Marlins have offered Matt Dominguez, Gaby Sanchez(a telling sign?), and 2 other minor leaguers to Oakland for Gio Gonzalez." Oh shit, if they pull this off then they might have a pitching staff to rival the phillies. 1. Johnson 2. Sanchez 3. Gonzalez. That's a pretty good 1, 2, 3.
theacademy 12.05.11	yeah thats a pretty good 1, 2, 3 but doesn't come close to the phillies 1-2-3 josh johnson doesn't belong in the same breath as halladay or lee until he makes 30 starts in a season more than one time
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"I know Pit its just that hes going to be getting 25 million a year to hit .280/20/90 when hes 38. Solid, yes, but probably not at that price." Wait wait wait(again)..... lol, you think, in 5 or 6 years, he's only going to hit. 280? Once again, the swing is the last thing to go.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"yeah thats a pretty good 1, 2, 3 but doesn't come close to the phillies 1-2-3" Really? First of all, Halladay and Lee are getting up there in years. Second of all, Hamels had a great year last year, but other than that, he's underachieved. I'm not saying the Marlins 1-2-3 is better than the Phillies, but they're nowhere near as good as you think, Acad.
BigHans 12.05.11	Wait wait wait(again)..... lol, you think, in 5 or 6 years, he's only going to hit. 280? Once again, the swing is the last thing to go. ^ assuming he is 37 in 6 years (which I dont believe to be true), its not likely he will hit much above .300 and 20/25 HR. If anyone is capable, its him, but history proves otherwise. Granted, that is still better than the average MLB hitter, I just dont think he's going to be worth the money at that time, or even close to it.
BigHans 12.05.11	this is also typical marlins IMO. tank for awhile, load up a roster, win WS. Hold a fire sale. Tank. Load up again. Win. Tank. Repeat.
theacademy 12.05.11	"Halladay and Lee are getting up there in years. Second of all, Hamels had a great year last year, but other than that, he's underachieved." neither one is 35 yet and neither one is a power pitcher. you don't get to make this argument until either one shows signs of slowing down. josh johnson could be done before he's 29. and fucking lol at saying hamels has underachieved when anibal sanchez is part of this discussion. HUGE FUCKING LOL.
theacademy 12.05.11	i hate the phillies like i hate the heat, but I wouldn't say that boston's (celtics) big 3 is as good as miami's big 3 because that would be a fucking joke. same thing applies here, man.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"^ assuming he is 37 in 6 years (which I dont believe to be true), its not likely he will hit much above .300 and 20/25 HR. If anyone is capable, its him, but history proves otherwise. Granted, that is still better than the average MLB hitter, I just dont think he's going to be worth the money at that time, or even close to it." Ugh, Hans..... history has proven otherwise? Let's look at some of the prettiest swings in baseball, shall we? Ted Williams hit over .300 every year of his 21 year career except one. Wade Boggs hit over .300 every year of his 18 year career except two. Paul Molitor didn't struggle until the very last year of his 20 year career. Edgar Martinez hit .306 at age 40. Barry Bonds was 40 in 2004, and he hit .362 Manny was hitting .290 plus every year until the steroid use came out. Now I know you're going to make a comment about steroid use with Bonds and Ramirez, but what you seem to forget is that Barry and Manny would have still hit at least .300 every season, regardless of the steroids, due to their swing. If you have a fundamentally sound swing, you will survive well into your late 30's, hell, even early 40's for some, because you never forget how to hit a baseball. Your power might disappear, but you'll still get on base and drive in runs.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"and fucking lol at saying hamels has underachieved when anibal sanchez is part of this discussion. HUGE FUCKING LOL." Lol I never said Anibal hasn't underachieved. In fact, I think both Anibal and JJ both have underachieved, but neither was touted as a great prospect as much as Hamels was.
theacademy 12.05.11	what does that have to do with jj-sanchez-gio not coming close to being as good as halladay-lee-hamels (which was the point you were responding to)
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	And btw, Acad, Halladay will be 35 by the 2nd week of the season, and saying that Halladay isn't a power pitcher is a joke. You don't have to throw 97 mph to be a power pitcher. "this is also typical marlins IMO. tank for awhile, load up a roster, win WS. Hold a fire sale. Tank. Load up again. Win. Tank. Repeat." Hans, you're out of your league on this one. That happens when the owner of the stadium continues to rape you for all your worth with rent because you don't own the stadium. From the reports, Ross and Huizenga were raping the Marlins for rent every year. Now that the Marlins have their own, they can build off of the shared revenue they've saved up and use the revenue from the new stadium to KEEP players.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"what does that have to do with jj-sanchez-gio not coming close to being as good as halladay-lee-hamels (which was the point you were responding to)" I never said they were close to being as good as the Phillies rotation. I just said don't overrate the Phillies rotation.
theacademy 12.05.11	if the marlins got gio, they would pretty comfortably have the fourth or fifth best staff in the NL
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Add Buerhle or WIlson(hesitant on CJ) and you might have the 2nd or 3rd best, plus a solid closer.
theacademy 12.05.11	where did I overrate the phillies rotation, please point it out to me lol
BigHans 12.05.11	I know Pit just saying it was a pattern for them. Hell, it was probably worth it considering they have two WS titles to show for it. And I get what youre saying about Pujols, but assuming he hits .310/25/100 (best case scenario) at age 38, do you really think thats worth 25-30 million a year? Maybe it is if he can bring them a title or two.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Holy shit acad, I never said you did. I just said DON'T DO IT.
theacademy 12.05.11	i would take a discounted buerhle over CJ any day of the week. Buerhle is the man.
BigHans 12.05.11	Also, my Twins are going to suck for a long time
theacademy 12.05.11	why would i ever do that i hate the phillies and you know this.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"And I get what youre saying about Pujols, but assuming he hits .310/25/100 (best case scenario) at age 38, do you really think thats worth 25-30 million a year? Maybe it is if he can bring them a title or two." That's not the best case scenario, because the best case scenario would be him hitting .330/40/120. And yes, because he'll either move up or down from the cleanup spot in the order and make way for one Mike Stanton to take over. Stanton won't hit .300 every year, but he'll give you 45-60 bombs plus 130 RBI.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"i would take a discounted buerhle over CJ any day of the week. Buerhle is the man." Agreed. I think CJ is overblown and will get overpayed. "why would i ever do that i hate the phillies and you know this." Because you have a tendency to jump out of the gate saying certain things are amazing when they're just mediocre to shit.
BigHans 12.05.11	the other side of the argument is Pujols will no doubt be chasing several of baseballs all-time records during those years so it will undoubtebly bring in revenue. Hell, I take it back, Pujols is totally worth 10 years/300 million.
theacademy 12.05.11	even if its just 3 years of pujols-being-pujols rubbing off on Lomo, Stanton, and hell, even Hanley, and a steady decline afterwards, would be worth the whole contract.
BigHans 12.05.11	Buerhle's best quality is he is very solid. I personally despise him but I have to give him credit for that.
theacademy 12.05.11	"Because you have a tendency to jump out of the gate saying certain things are amazing when they're just mediocre to shit." only about frivolous fake shit like music. baseball has numbers. you have to show it respect.
BigHans 12.05.11	Stanton won't hit .300 every year, but he'll give you 45-60 bombs plus 130 RBI. ^ I think its going to be a very long time before we see 60 bombs again.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"even if its just 3 years of pujols-being-pujols rubbing off on Lomo, Stanton, and hell, even Hanley, and a steady decline afterwards, would be worth the whole contract." Hell, if he can help Stanton polish up his swing and tutor Hanley on what it takes to be a leader, this could spell trouble for the rest of the NL. Stanton with a better swing would become one of the greatest of all time. He's a 4 tool player now(fielding, power, arm, speed), but with a better swing, the sky is the limit.
theacademy 12.05.11	stanton is beast tho have a feeling we'll be seeing him, jay bruce, and cespedes battling it out for NL MVP for years to come
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Buerhle's best quality is he is very solid. I personally despise him but I have to give him credit for that." The guy is a fucking workhorse. Everything you want from a pitcher. "^ I think its going to be a very long time before we see 60 bombs again." Ummmmmm...... no. Considering Bautista(of all people) got to 54 two years ago, it's very possible. Mike Stanton has that type of power. The guy is going to hit it out of a few stadiums, just watch.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Shit, I keep forgetting the Marlins are also after Cespedes. Jesus christ..... I'm falling in love with baseball all over again. It's also very telling that the Marlins are trying to push Gaby to Oakland. Hmmmmm..... who's going to take his place at 1st? I wonder......
JWT155 12.05.11	Better not be hating on the Yankees anymore.
BigHans 12.05.11	Acad do you think the Mets should just firesell and trade Wright?
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Better not be hating on the Yankees anymore." Nope. I just hate on the Yankees because their fans are fucking obnoxious. "Acad do you think the Mets should just firesell and trade Wright?" I think it's time.
BigHans 12.05.11	Wow Pujols has only topped 200 hits once. I find that amazing.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	That's because he gets walked A LOT
BigHans 12.05.11	Not at an obscene rate. he's only walked more than 100 times 3 times in his career.
BigHans 12.05.11	Bonds never got 200 hits but he topped 100 walks 14 times and usually by a good margin.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Not at an obscene rate. he's only walked more than 100 times 3 times in his career." Well, you also need to put into perspective everything else he does well. 200 hits isn't a "must-have" stat to be great.
theacademy 12.05.11	"Better not be hating on the Yankees anymore." no. yankees fans can't say this just like they couldn't say it to boston fans last season. yankees payroll is still so much higher (proportionately) that its ridiculous. "Acad do you think the Mets should just firesell and trade Wright?" no. the mets are not competitive but except for wright and santana, none of their "assets" cost money. (Bay has an untradeable contract, so he's more of a "liability")... after wright, bay, and santana, who is there to "sell"?? Two-three top pitchers in the minors + Ike Davis still years away from arbitration... the mets could be competitive in 2-3 years (basically after the Phillies fizzle out and begin a 5 year period of waiting for their old players' contracts to expire)...
BigHans 12.05.11	I know its not I was just really surprised to see it considering his career batting average.
BigHans 12.05.11	the bad news for you is when the Phillies fizzle out the Braves are going to be a big time force.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"the bad news for you is when the Phillies fizzle out the Braves are going to be a big time force." Really? Because if recent history has told you anything, the ROTY award doesn't mean shit anymore(unless you're Buster Posey).
theacademy 12.05.11	not unless they find players that can hit. after mccann, who is a catcher, so he's going to miss time regardless, I see nothing that I would be able to depend on for a "future"
BigHans 12.05.11	Braves are loaded with young pitching. They can afford to flip one for a bat. Heyward will be a boss in a couple years IMO
theacademy 12.05.11	no pit. the braves have the best pitching prospects in like, history. even if only half of them reach half of their potential, they'll be one of the top NL staffs.
BigHans 12.05.11	Brandon Beachy is prime time
theacademy 12.05.11	yeah the first 2/3 of what hans said is true. the last 1/3 remains to be determined.
BigHans 12.05.11	Pit Im still reeling from that Cowboys loss yesterday. Way to go Garrett. At least Romo didn't blow it this time.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"no pit. the braves have the best pitching prospects in like, history. even if only half of them reach half of their potential, they'll be one of the top NL staffs." Ummmm..... wasn't Coghlan supposed to be a great hitter, too? "Heyward will be a boss in a couple years IMO" How much longer are they going to wait on him? If last season was any indication, Stanton is light years ahead of him.
BigHans 12.05.11	Hes only 22 so I dont think its time to throw in the towel on him just yet.
theacademy 12.05.11	"How much longer are they going to wait on him? If last season was any indication, Stanton is light years ahead of him." yeah let's use one year to make this kind of determination. only, lets use 2010... then who's your pick (they're both the same age).
theacademy 12.05.11	"Ummmm..... wasn't Coghlan supposed to be a great hitter, too?" actually nobody who knows anything about baseball ever thought this.
AngelofDeath 12.05.11	"no pit. the braves have the best pitching prospects in like, history. even if only half of them reach half of their potential, they'll be one of the top NL staffs." 123
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"yeah let's use one year to make this kind of determination. only, lets use 2010... then who's your pick (they're both the same age)." It's been two years buddy. He's been in the league a half season longer than Stanton. "actually nobody who knows anything about baseball ever thought this." That's where you're wrong. There were several articles the year before last about how Coghlan was going to be the next great leadoff man.
theacademy 12.05.11	"several articles"?! you don't say!
BigHans 12.05.11	Hey guys Joe Mauer got 180 million. God damn it.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	""several articles"?! you don't say!" Several articles written by prominent, trustworthy journalists who actually asked several prominent major league scouts. I'm actually looking for them right now. Also, it was 2 years ago, not last year. My fault.
theacademy 12.05.11	baseball "journalists" is an oxymoron. they're almost as bad as music journalists. if they knew anything, they wouldn't be writing they would be doing.
BigHans 12.05.11	hey dont say that about Keith Law!
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"baseball "journalists" is an oxymoron. they're almost as bad as music journalists. if they knew anything, they wouldn't be writing they would be doing." Academy, you're basically putting yourself on a pedestal above every man who's ever been involved in a game. You're worse than the journalists. You make claims because you watch games on TV, that's it. I do the same thing, but I base my knowledge off of just more than what I see during a game.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	And yes, baseball journalists are 99.9% of the time a joke. But when you have trustworthy sources and you're directly quoting baseball scouts, I tend to trust that.
DominionMM1 12.05.11	Next up: Albert Pujols mmmmmnah
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Be prepared. It looks like it's gonna happen today or tomorrow.
theacademy 12.05.11	"Academy, you're basically putting yourself on a pedestal above every man who's ever been involved in a game. You're worse than the journalists. You make claims because you watch games on TV, that's it. I do the same thing, but I base my knowledge off of just more than what I see during a game." i haven't had television since i moved out of my mom's. i hardly ever get to watch games. I base my claims on numbers. you base your knowledge on flawed interpretations provided by attention-hungry bloggers. i belong on my pedestal.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"i haven't had television since i moved out of my mom's. i hardly ever get to watch games." That royally sucks. "I base my claims on numbers. you base your knowledge on flawed interpretations provided by attention-hungry bloggers. i belong on my pedestal." I wish I could remember what list it was, but the last time we discussed baseball, you told me numbers could lie.
JWT155 12.05.11	Fingers crossed the Buccos get above 0.500 this year.
theacademy 12.05.11	assigning importance to the wrong numbers can tell lies.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"assigning importance to the wrong numbers can tell lies." Lol sure, of course. How do you know you're not doing the same thing?
theacademy 12.05.11	because i have a 173 iq
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Because you're sitting there telling me the Braves rotation, but here's some facts: Jurrjens has had many injuries already in his first few years in the league. Kimbrell might be great, but it was his first year in the league, so I'm not ready to pronounce him King Shit yet. Lowe is gone. Hudson is 8,000 years old. Tommy Hanson has the potential, but he has serious control issues. Sure, the bullpen is great, but if you can't get their because you're aging, wild, or injured, what's the purpose of a great bullpen?
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"because i have a 173 iq" Talk about inconsequential numbers
theacademy 12.05.11	jurjens will be traded hudson will be gone after his contract lowe is gone kimbrell is a closer hanson is still young none of those guys are who we're talking about
theacademy 12.05.11	Teheran 20 Delgado 21 Minor 23 Beachy 25 lol and this is a team that TRADED NEFTALI FELIZ
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Who are we talking about then? Who's going to step up for jurrjens and lowe? More rookies? Plus, let's not forget the worst pitching manager in the league is in their dugout.
BigHans 12.05.11	Beachy is like Chad Billingsley. Only good.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Teheran 20 Delgado 21 Minor 23 Beachy 25" Giving me a list of guys who collectively only have 5 years MLB experience isn't helping your claims at all, and don't ignore the Fredi factor.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Yu Darvish's Iranian/Japanese heritage could benefit the Marlins "cultural diversity" and seems on paper a logical fit.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Yu Darvish's Iranian/Japanese heritage could benefit the Marlins "cultural diversity" and seems on paper a logical fit." It's looking more and more like Yu's staying put in Japan.
BigHans 12.05.11	Yu Darvish's Iranian/Japanese heritage could benefit the Marlins "cultural diversity" and seems on paper a logical fit. ^ Dont they have to put up 40 million just to be able to negotiate? What a crock.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	They should start recruiting from Scandinavia and bring in some burly flamethrowing motherfuckers who will top 105 and beat your skull in with their viking fury and dominance. We need an imposing pitcher or two besides J.J.
Relinquished 12.05.11	"They should start recruiting from Scandinavia and bring in some burly flamethrowing motherfuckers who will top 105 and beat your skull in with their viking fury and dominance." right here
BigHans 12.05.11	Balls size has nothing to do with arm strength you know this man. Look at Pedro, Lincecum, etc.
theacademy 12.05.11	guys guys shut the fuck up for a second. everything just changed. this is fucking huge.
theacademy 12.05.11	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44MOXnukPhw
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	LOL YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE ACADEMY!!!
BigHans 12.05.11	lol Atreyu
theacademy 12.05.11	lol :D
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Description for song: "I Am War is the back to blood-raw basics punk/hardcore group featuring Atreyu frontman Alex Varkatzas singing and Bleeding Through vocalist Brandan Schieppati on guitar and vocals. It's an outlet for the duo to mine the darkest depths of their psyche and play the most pure and uncompromising extreme music of their careers. The tunes are tightly-coiled blasts of cathartic rage with mosh pit-punishing breakdowns that feel like sensory assaults. In under two minutes the duo combine the blast beats of classic hardcore, the street-level precision of thrash, the atonalities of modern metalcore, and the psychotics of punk rock. Alex and Brandan are currently demoing new music right now for their debut album due Spring 2012." Did they use "blast beats" to describe classic hardcore?
BigHans 12.05.11	I think Im gonna listen to In Flames the Hive suck that Atreyu
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	^This so hard. In fact, that being so hard makes me hard.
BigHans 12.05.11	biggest rip off since Vanilla Ice vs Queen
BigHans 12.05.11	this one is very interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoyEVTN_h9I&feature=related
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Yeah, I've seen that one Hans
BigHans 12.05.11	on topic, has anyone ever listened to the Beatles Ob La Di Ob La Da and Offsprings Why Dont You Get a Job back to back? Rip off.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Lol of course LIFE GOES ON!
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Was rather looking forward to that collab but song is pretty boring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUdZMfoM0b8 This im a sucker for.
BigHans 12.05.11	thought Acad would like that since he pretends to hate the Beatles would would really crawl through knives just to get a chance to suck Noodle's dick.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Also baseball fights are the best. The Marlins could use a goon or two like Johnny Gomes.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/2011/12/miami-marlins-to-meet-with-agent-for-albert-pujols-this-afternoon.html
BigHans 12.05.11	Pit honestly Id be happy for you if you got him but I think he's just using the Marlins for column fodder (leverage) against the Cardinals.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	Ummm.... he can't be, because they Cardinals can't up their offer any more. They don't have the money/funds to do it.
BigHans 12.05.11	I think if it came down to an extra 5-10 million they would find a way.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"I think if it came down to an extra 5-10 million they would find a way." Dude, the Cards front office and MLB's office already came out a month ago and said that the Cards had no more money to offer.
BigHans 12.05.11	Jon Heyman tweets that the Cardinals are unwilling to raise their offer to Albert Pujols from the $200-210 million over nine years that has been on the table for some time. This is what happens, of course, when no one else is really bidding on your target. So far the only other offer anyone knows of was the Marlins’ less-than-competitive one. The Cardinals are not in the business of bidding against themselves, so unless or until someone comes in and tries to steal their first baseman, they should hold firm.
BigHans 12.05.11	Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch has consistently provided the most accurate details on the matter, and ran a column Saturday with a couple of notes on the looming negotiations. •The Cardinals are “currently inclined” to remain within the salary framework of the original offer ($22M-$22.5M annually) and may even “tighten” its length. •That stance could change if another team makes a better bid. •The Cubs, Rangers, Angels, Marlins and Nationals are currently being “cited” as the other potential suitors. In other words, it’s going to be a lot like every other big-time free agent sweepstakes. If the Cards are outbid, they’ll up the ante. But they’re not going to stretch their payroll without a good reason. And with the Yankees and Red Sox likely sitting this one out, perhaps a $200 million deal will actually do the trick.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"This is what happens, of course, when no one else is really bidding on your target. So far the only other offer anyone knows of was the Marlins’ less-than-competitive one. The Cardinals are not in the business of bidding against themselves, so unless or until someone comes in and tries to steal their first baseman, they should hold firm." Except there are two teams bidding on Pujols outside of St. Louis, so that doesn't apply. "Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch has consistently provided the most accurate details on the matter, and ran a column Saturday with a couple of notes on the looming negotiations. •The Cardinals are “currently inclined” to remain within the salary framework of the original offer ($22M-$22.5M annually) and may even “tighten” its length. •That stance could change if another team makes a better bid. •The Cubs, Rangers, Angels, Marlins and Nationals are currently being “cited” as the other potential suitors. In other words, it’s going to be a lot like every other big-time free agent sweepstakes. If the Cards are outbid, they’ll up the ante. But they’re not going to stretch their payroll without a good reason. And with the Yankees and Red Sox likely sitting this one out, perhaps a $200 million deal will actually do the trick." You do realize you're trusting the St. Louis Cardinals hometown writers, correct? I've always found, even here in South Florida, that hometown writers skew reality just a bit.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Personally id like to see Pujols retire as a Cardinal. But if he comes here hey!!!!!
BigHans 12.05.11	how do you guys think Hanley will adjust to being replaced and moving to 3rd? Do you think his ego can handle it?
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"how do you guys think Hanley will adjust to being replaced and moving to 3rd? Do you think his ego can handle it?" Luckily Hanley seems open to it. He was very vocal about how he supported the wooing of Reyes. They happen to be best friends, so if Hanley's ego gets in the way, Jose will check his ass.
BigHans 12.05.11	I thought I had read something where at first he wanted it then changed his mind.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"I thought I had read something where at first he wanted it then changed his mind." That article was written by the Mets Beat writer lol
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	Hanley's a diva bitch. Hopefully he'll get his shit together this year.
FrankRedHot 12.05.11	"Hanley's a diva bitch. Hopefully he'll get his shit together this year." He will, or Ozzie's gonna bench his ass.
BallsToTheWall 12.05.11	He makes one more pathetic play like that gingerly trot to the ball he kicked and im jumping off the railing and punching him in the brown.
ShadowRemains 12.06.11	lol now this thread was an entertaining read
DominionMM1 12.06.11	lol. Apparently, the Marlins have offered Pujols a 10-year deal.
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	As I said before, just give us the rings.
Satellite 12.06.11	didn't you guys all say that about the heat? :/
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	The Heat DID make it to the finals, and was only 2 games away from winning it. With a piece of two, they will be unstoppable. The only team that will rival them will be the Lakers, assuming they pull off what the Heat did, except with Paul and Howard.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	10 year offer what the fuck?
theacademy 12.06.11	"The Heat DID make it to the finals, and was only 2 games away from winning it." so what you're saying, is...
theacademy 12.06.11	... yeah, that's what I thought you were saying.
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	"so what you're saying, is..." So what I'm saying is that they were 2 games away from winning it in the first year. Now, let's wait and see what happens THIS YEAR, and if they don't follow through, I'll gladly accept all criticism and hate that I receive.
DominionMM1 12.06.11	"As I said before, just give us the rings." yeah, with Pujols, the Marlins are the best team in the NL...if you look past the lack of a quality rotation.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	Let's be honest for a good part of the season the Heat didnt look like they were going to win shit, they started dominating late in the season. Expect that surge to continue this year and the Heat winning it. Like Pit says. Just give us the fucking rings and crawl back into your hole and hope for 2013.
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	"yeah, with Pujols, the Marlins are the best team in the NL...if you look past the lack of a quality rotation." Well, let's not forget they're also targeting Buerhle and Wilson, as well as trying to trade for Gio Gonzalez. Don't sell them short, bro.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	Sanchez and Nolasco faded down in the stretch, probably more of a morale thing than anything else. Vasquez was lights out in the second half, kinda wish he was still on the roster.
DominionMM1 12.06.11	Considering the offers that the pitchers you mentioned are going to get (due to a weak free agent pitching market), the Marlins would be insane to sign those guys.
theacademy 12.06.11	the heat won't win because nobody on that team besides wade has any guts. they know they got a sweet gig but they just wanna put up a satisfactory win total and bow out swiftly so they don't hurt their chances for success in their REAL season: the summer endorsement season!
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	"the heat won't win because nobody on that team besides wade has any guts." Yeah, Udonis Haslem doesn't have guts. Way to speak without thinking, Acad. "they know they got a sweet gig but they just wanna put up a satisfactory win total and bow out swiftly so they don't hurt their chances for success in their REAL season: the summer endorsement season!" I'm sure that's what it's all about. I'm sure they love having critics telling them they can't win the big one every day.
theacademy 12.06.11	ok i actually wrote "besides wade and haslem" but took it out because i didn't think any of you would get it Haslem is like one of my top 10 players.
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	"Considering the offers that the pitchers you mentioned are going to get (due to a weak free agent pitching market), the Marlins would be insane to sign those guys." Dude, Buerhle is a workhorse and a leader, and that's what the Marlins need in the rotation. C.J. Wilson is overrated, and he's not my first choice, but I'd still take him. Gio Gonzalez is a superstar in the making. The kid pitches lights out baseball, period.
theacademy 12.06.11	guarantee gio is not a superstar in the making he would be worth picking up if you have an expendable gaby sanchez, though wilson won't be worth the money buerhle might be depending on what the money is
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	He's a solid player, he gets shit done with no bullshit. He's stopped by my restaurant twice in the past year.
theacademy 12.06.11	he's good but let's not throw around 'superstar' too liberally
DominionMM1 12.06.11	My understanding is that the Marlins aren't the most stable team, financially speaking, right now. I've heard that they're already stretched thin money-wise with the new stadium. What happens if they commit a ton of money and the fans don't show up?
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	BREAKING NEWS: THE MIAMI MARLINS HAVE SIGNED ALBERT PUJOLS TO A 17 YEAR, 386 MILLION DOLLAR DEAL.
theacademy 12.06.11	they're being investigated by the SEC it's actually sort of brilliant they're building a team to win in '12 or '13 and then will sell off all their players to help cover their debts it's great for marlins fans (they get a championship) it's great for mets/braves/nats fans (the phillies don't get a championship) it's great for the players (FA salaries stay high) it's great for the teams that cash in on the firesale (remember thats how the red sox got beckett, the tigers got cabrera, the mets got delgado) it's even great for the marlins because they net a bunch of sick prospects like hanley and andrew miller
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	I used to think that Pujols would be a Cardinal forever, but then i took an arrrow to my knee.
theacademy 12.06.11	it's especially great for ozzie guillen because he gets to look like he knows how to manage a baseball team.
DominionMM1 12.06.11	they're building a team to win in '12 or '13 and then will sell off all their players to help cover their debts haven't they done that a couple of times already?
FrankRedHot 12.06.11	You guys do realize that each firesale happened because they played in a ballpark NOT of their own?
DominionMM1 12.06.11	I don't keep up with Florida sports teams (except the Bucs) so I really don't know what went into all of it. But if I'm a free agent, the Marlins' past and current financial issues would be a cause for concern for me.
theacademy 12.06.11	"You guys do realize that each firesale happened because they played in a ballpark NOT of their own?" yeah in a year or two, this new park will be "NOT of their own" as well lol
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	Money generally triumphs ethics/honor/loyalty all that unimportant bullshit. Just look as Jayson Werthless.
DominionMM1 12.06.11	True, but you can't forget about ego. Pujols finishes his career as a Card, and he's on par with Stan the Man. He signs with Miami, and he'll finish his career as a...well, who knows, but probably not a Marlin.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	For me 1st destination would be for him to stay and finish his career in St. Louis. If he is going to leave than yeah Florida. The only other guy i'd hate to see leave his team is Chipper Jones. But that wont happen.
theacademy 12.06.11	Pujols brought 2 world series rings, multiple division and wc championships, multiple MVPs, gold gloves, and the ROY to St. Louis, and he did it at a discount... perhaps most importantly, he did it WITHOUT A SCANDAL. No Mitchell Report, no female hormones, no DUIs, no ESPN "decision" fiascos, no sexual assault of hotel employees. He even put up with faggoty players like david eckstein. I get the allure of staying with one team your whole career, but his manager has left, the team's second best player (and his eventual replacement as the team stud) is gone, and, let's be serious, it's Missouri. I say that he should not get one bit of flack wherever he decides to go.
theacademy 12.06.11	and yes, i would say that even if he went to my most hated teams like the yankees, phillies, and braves.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	If Chipper went to the Phillies I would move to Iraq instantly. Thank god I dont have to worry about those assholes or the Yankees or the Mets in the Pujols sweepstakes.
theacademy 12.06.11	i genuinely don't get why you hate the mets. hating the mets is like hating belgium or the whale shark or the ginger kid from your high school class that thought he was going to grow up to be a famous rapper.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	I'm just anti New York period. More prejudice than logic really.
theacademy 12.06.11	hanley changed his mind apparently fish should trade him (not joking) it makes good baseball sense for literally every party involved.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	They'd be getting rid of dead weight so I wouldn't mind trading him since he's already worn out his welcome.
theacademy 12.06.11	hanley's contract is beefy but tradeable. Shortstops who can hit are rare, so the value premium for free agent shortstops is inflated for hanley, he will make more money the longer he plays shortstop for the marlins, it doesn't make sense to have two shortstops who can hit on the same roster (unless one of them can play 2B, which is also a tough position to fill) (as an aside, Reyes did play some decent 2B before the injuries started..) the position scarcity premium (while i'd say is most pronounced in the boost to free agent shortstop contracts) is also applicable in the trade context, and some teams seriously need a SS.
theacademy 12.06.11	what theacademy recommends: if pujols fails, snag fielder immediately. then bundle hanley and gaby in a deal for greinke
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	ROFL Greinke and Ozzie is a match made in hell.
BallsToTheWall 12.06.11	ROFL Greinke and Ozzie is a match made in hell.
FrankRedHot 12.07.11	Trading Hanley wouldn't be all that smart unless he refused to play 3rd. There aren't very many GREAT 3rd basemen in MLB. He has a chance to be GREAT, it's just up to him to take advantage.