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Last Active 01-05-23 12:08 am
Joined 04-20-18
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| The Chinese Democracy Saga
Back in early 2024, I spent a while researching the background behind the Chinese Democracy album by Guns N’ Roses (GNR). This research came from several GNR books that I had, some magazine articles, as well as Slash's and Duff's autobiographies. This has sat on my laptop for a while now - and thought it best to kick this out. | | 1 |  | Guns N' Roses
The Spaghetti Incident?
1993. Slash was working on new songs. "The Spaghetti Incident" is released and bombs - only reaching 1MM sold in the US in 2018. Axl Rose and Stephanie Seymour split up. Duff releases his solo album, "Believe in Me". | | 2 |  | Guns N' Roses
Greatest Hits
1994. Stephanie Seymour and Erin Everly file suits against Axl Rose for domestic battery; both were settled out of court. Axl helps induct Elton John into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; then withdraws from public appearances. Slash continues writing new songs under advance from Geffen; however, Axl was not impressed with Slash's songs; just some riffs and fragments of songs. Gilby was fired; Axl claimed that he was a hired hand and couldn't write music with him. The track "Sympathy for the Devil" recorded with Mike Clink; Slash and Duff did not get along with new guitarist Paul Huge. Gilby Clarke releases his solo album "Pawnshop Guitars" - including a song with Axl. | | 3 |  | Slash's Snakepit
It's Five O'Clock Somewhere
1995. Slash releases "Its Five O'Clock Somewhere", including contributions from GNR members - and using songs that Axl refused; sells 2MM copies. A GNR biography, Shattered Illusion, is shelved. Axl considers an industrial solo album; but settles with a new GNR album. Shannon Hoon, lead singer of Blind Melon and Axl's friend, dies of a drug overdose. | | 4 |  | Duff McKagan
Believe In Me
1996. Axl Rose presents Slash and Duff with a new contract; Slash and Duff are essentially hired hands. In this new contract, Axl retains rights to the GNR name and can start a new band called GNR. Slash and Axl come to verbal blows; Slash departs the band and work on the new album stops. Axl promises a new GNR album soon. Matt Sorum is fired. Duff leaves the band; with Axl being the sole original and remaining member. Axl's mom passes away from cancer. | | 5 |  | Moby
Everything is Wrong
1997. GNR now consists of Axl Rose, Robin Fink and Paul Huge on guitar, Tommy Stinson on bass, Dizzy Reed on keyboards, and Josh Freeze on drums. Serious work on new album material begins - with Mike Clink, Moby (for techno-style production), and Youth. Axl writes songs about Stephanie Seymour; in hope that her son (Dylan) would listen and hear the truth of their relationship. Axl's friend West Arkeen dies of heroin overdose. Axl cuts his hair. Shaq is brought into the studio to freestyle over a GNR track. | | 6 |  | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
1998. Todd Sullivan (Geffen talent executive) is removed from the project by Axl for pushing him to complete songs. MCA is swallowed up by Seagram; a $1MM incentive is paid to Axl by the Chairman. Sean Beaven comes on to produce the new album. 30 songs are recorded including "This I Love", "Prostitute", "Cock-a-roach Soup", "Suckerpunched", "No Love Remains", "Friend or Foe", "Zip It", "Something Always", "Hearts Get Killed", and "Closing in on You". Axl confirms the new album title to be Chinese Democracy. | | 7 |  | Soundtrack (Film)
End of days
1999. Geffen is restructured. Axl overseen by Interscope and chairman Jimmy Iovine. March deadline for new album missed. Appetite for Destruction songs re-recorded by new band; 'Sweet Child of Mine' included in Big Daddy soundtrack. Josh Freeze and Billy Howerdell (studio engineer) quit to form A Perfect Circle. Robin Fink rejoins NIN. Sean Beaven quits. "Oh My God" released on End of Days soundtrack; panned by critics and not played on US rock radio. | | 8 |  | Guns N' Roses
Live Era '87-'93
1999 (Continued). Live Era '87-93' is released, as produced by Slash; harkens back to the original GNR. Buckethead (guitarist) and Brian "Brain" Mantia (drummer) enter GNR. Axl gives his first formal interview in 6 years to MVT's Kurt Loder; reports 70 new songs in various states of completion and at least 2 albums of material. Axl explains the "Chinese Democracy" album name. First airing of new tracks "Chinese Democracy", "I.R.S.", "There Was a Time", "The Blues", "Catcher in the Rye", and "Oklahoma (instrumental)". Rolling Stone allowed to listen to nine tracks off pending new album. | | 9 |  | Gilby Clarke
Rubber
2000. Axl makes appearance and performs with Gilby Clarke on small stage; excited about band and new album. Interscope suggests new album to be released in 2001, as early as June. GNR tour announced for 2001. Roy Thomas Baker and Tom Zutaut brought in to produce and liase with Axl, respectively; both gone by Christmas. Chinese Democracy to contain up to 18 new tracks - with extra CD with 10 tracks. Song titles included "This I Love", "Prostitute", "TWAT", "I.R.S.", "Catcher in the Rye", "Hearts Always Get Killed", "Today", "Tomorrow Forever", "Cock-a-roach Soup", "Closing In On You", "Something Always", "No Love Remains"; "Strange Disease", "Friend or Foe", "Never Had It", "Sil Work", and "Zip It". | | 10 |  | Slash's Snakepit
Ain't Life Grand
2000 (Continued). GNR performs New Years eve show at House of Blues in Las Vegas; band consists of Axl, Paul Huge, Buckethead, Tommy Stinson, Brain, Chris Pitman (keyboards) - and Robin Finck back. GNR Plays new tracks "Oh My God", "The Blues", "Chinese Democracy", "Madagascar", "Oklahoma", and "Silk Worms" (a song by Dizzy and Chris Pitman). Slash releases a new Slash's Snakepit album. | | 11 |  | Duff McKagan's Loaded
Dark Days
2001. GNR plays Rock in Rio. A summer tour in Europe is announced. Chinese Democracy postponed from June to August; tour cancelled. Another New Years eve show conducted at The Joint in Hard Rock Café Casino; Slash refused access at the door. This was the last concert to include performance by Paul Huge. Duff releases his first Loaded album. | | 12 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2002. Richard Fortus (guitars) enters GNR. GNR plays Hong Kong. Axl reports that lots of songs done in last year, with new songs bumping prior songs off the list. Axl indicates that album tracks had been sorted - and that the album cover art was ready. New songs "Madagascar", "Rhiad and the Bedouins", "The Blues" and "Chinese Democracy" played on the European tour. Axl notes that these songs were no longer scheduled to be on Chinese Democracy, but instead on a follow-up album. Paul Huge's guitar parts were wiped; Richard Fortus re-records guitar parts that Paul Huge had done. | | 13 |  | Buckethead
Bermuda Triangle
2002 (continued). GNR plays at MTV Video Music Awards; premiering the track "Madagascar". A US tour flops, due to late performance times, Axl no shows, or cancellations; remainder of tour cancelled. Chinese Democracy put on backburner - with more than $10MM invested by Interscope to date. GNR fracturing, with Stinson and Finck possibly providing resignations, and Buckethead considering leaving. | | 14 |  | Velvet Revolver
Contraband
2003. Doug Goldstein bails out; retires to Hawaii. Velvet Revolver forms with former GNR members (Slash, Duff, Matt Sorum) and Scott Weiland on vocals; record deal secured with RCA. The track "I.R.S." played on NY classic rock station 104.3; asked by GNR management not to continue playing it. GNR greatest hits collection announced for release by Interscope; Axl attempts to block it. | | 15 | | Guns N' Roses
Greatest Hits
2004. Greatest Hits album released. Costs >$11MM for Chinese Democracy; Interscope informs Axl that it was his obligation to fund and complete CD, not Geffen's. The open tab at the studio is shut down. Buckethead leaves the band; GNR cancels Rock in Rio festival appearance. Slash and Duff sue Axl for turning down lucrative offers to insert old GNR music into movies. Velvet Revolver releases Contraband to much fanfare and sales. VH1 Behind the Music released with no Axl, just Slash, Steven, Gilby, and Matt interviews. GNR announces Chinese Democracy to be released in Nov; not fulfilled. | | 16 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2005. Costs for Chinese Democracy at $13MM. Axl states that album to be released in start of 2006. Slash and Duff sue Axl for changing publisher of jointly-owned, copyrighted songs without their consent; Axl countersues to confirm ownership. | | 17 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2006. Axl informs Rolling Stone that he is working on 32 songs, and 26 are nearly done; 13 tracks to be included on the album and the rest on 2 subsequent sequel albums. Axl's favorite tracks are "Better", "The Blues", and "TWAT". Four tracks played on internet - "Better", "TWAT", "the Blues", and "I.R.S.". 14 track album rumored including: "Chinese Democracy", "This I Love", "I.R.S., Thyme, Substitute, The General, Seven, Madagascar, Ides of March, Catcher in the Rye, Leave Me Alone, The Blues, Closing in on You, and TWAT. Several songs leaked including Better, Catcher in the Rye, Better, I.R.S., TWAT, and Hardschool. I.R.S. played on radio stations. Axl does sneak preview of album at late-late NY night clubs at a party at his house; album contained 10 tracks. Axl proclaims album to be released in fall or late fall. | | 18 |  | Bumblefoot
Normal
2006 (continued). Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal joins GNR. Current GNR lineup includes Axl, Fink, Bumblefot, and Fortus (guitars), Stinson (bass), Dizzy Reed and Chris Pittman (keyboards), and Brain (drums). GNR plays new song Better, Madagascar, The Blues, Chinese Democracy, and TWAT, and closed with I.R.S. at Hammerstein. Frank Ferrer replaces Brain on drums during European tour. Sebastian Bach rekindles friendship with Axl after 13 years; hears the album - and calls it "grand" and "mindblowing". Axl releases "An Open Letter to our fans". Axl cancels early 2007 tour to focus on the album; the album will not be released by end of 2006 but by 3/6/2007. Axl separates from Merck Mercuraiadis (latest manager); Merck noted that touring money need to complete album and keep the band alive, that Axl failed to show up for planned sessions, and that record company refusing to prepare marketing campaign or commission videos until album in their hands; adds that one of the best albums ever made. | | 19 |  | Sebastian Bach
Angel Down
2007. More tracks from album leaked to internet including Better, Chinese Democracy, The Blues, I.R.S., and TWAT. Axl appears on three solo tracks (Back in the Saddle, Love is a Bitchslap, and Stuck Inside) by Sebastian Bach, on Angel Down album. | | 20 |  | Velvet Revolver
Libertad
2007 (Continued). Velvet Revolver releases their second album, then implodes a year later. | | 21 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2008. Dr Pepper promises a free soda drink to everyone in America if GNR releases their new album by end of 2008, but no free soda for Slash and Buckethead. Nine songs streamed illegally by blogger - with studio quality - including Better, Chinese Democracy, I.R.S., Madagascar, The Blues, TWAT, Riad and the Bedouins, Prostitute, and If the World; Shackler's Revenge also leaked. Best buy agrees to purchase 1.3MM copies of the album with pledge not to return to label (also reported as 1.6MM copies for $14MM). A music sampler with 2 songs is sent to 2,500 exotic dancing spots. The album is streamed on MySpace - broke records, but may have limited buys. Chinese Democracy is released on 11/23/2008; exclusively by Best Buy in tiny cardboard kiosks - sold at an original price of $13.99. The album hits radio and fades, due to little publicity and current band interviews, no promotion by Axl, no videos for singles, and no tour. | | 22 |  | Duff McKagan's Loaded
Sick
2009. Axl sues Dr Pepper for defrauding customers and capitalizing on popularity of GNR, while harming the band reputation and the album release. Duff's band Loaded releases their Sick album. | | 23 |  | Slash
Slash
2010. Slash releases his solo album, featuring guest vocals from several contemporary hard rock and metal vocalists. | | 24 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2011. Chinese Democracy sold by Best Buy for clearance price of $1.99 from website. Sale numbers are 614K copies (Nielsen soundscan) or greater than 1MM (RIAA) in the US. Duff releases the album "The Taking" by Loaded.
2012/2013: Leaks of "Better Gone", "Blood in the Water", "Better" versions (DJ Ashba, Bumblefoot acoustic), and "Going Down". Slash releases new album "Apocalyptic Love" with Myles Kennedy solely on vocals - and later the "Nothing Left to Fear" Soundtrack. | | 25 |  | Guns N' Roses
Appetite for Democracy (Video)
2014. Live DVD of GNR released, performing classic and new GNR tracks. Slash releases his "World on Fire" album with Myles Kennedy on vocals.
2015. A rumored release of Chinese Democracy II does not pan out. DJ Ashba leaves, and Slash and Duff rejoin GNR. | | 26 |  | Slash
Living the Dream
2018. Leaks of several GNR songs including Oh My God, Silkworms, If the World Remix, Shackler's Revenge remix, This I Love remix, Ballad of Death, Mi Amor, and The General. Slash releases his "Living the Dream" album.
2019. Village Sessions leaked, including 4 CDs of rough mixes from 2000, some demos by Finck/Stinson in 2001 (including Better), and 7 more CDs of tweaks. These were obtained from Tom Zutaut's storage locker due to fees not being paid. Duff releases solo album "Tenderness". | | 27 |  | Guns N' Roses
Hard Skool
2021. Hard Skool and Absurd redone with Slash and Duff, and released.
2022. Village Sessions uploaded to YouTube. Slash releases his fourth solo album with Myles Kennedy - titled "4". | | 28 |  | Slash
Orgy of the Damned
2023. Total sales of Chinese Democracy reported at just over 2MM copies. Perhaps and The General redone with Slash and Duff, and released. Duff releases his solo album "LIghthouse".
2024. Slash releases Orgy of the Damned, a bluesy rock album including contributions from multiple vocalists. | | 29 | | Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
2025. GNR continued to release tracks redone with Slash and Duff - Nothin and Atlas.
...and the Saga continues... | |
ToSmokMuzyki
12.24.25 | so much drama over a few mid ablums | AlkemestRedux
12.24.25 | Agreed, they're like the definition of a band that has three good songs. Really interesting read though. I knew Axl was a dick but didn't realize the full extent of it. Glad he got slapped with the aging stick. | anarchistfish
12.24.25 | I actually quite liked it at the time. Had some interesting stuff going on | ToSmokMuzyki
12.24.25 | still waiting for my dr pepper | sheelanagig
12.25.25 | Great work man! | bigguytoo9
12.25.25 | Ive been to a riot @ a GNR show before and THAT was something. Nobody even got to take the stage. | grannypantys
12.26.25 | props for all the research. I almost feel sorry for everyone involved. |
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