furpa: Film Discussion: Indie Directors --> Blockbusters

furpa 01.07.18	Also another question for you all: how do you feel about Quentin Tarantino possibly directing a Star Trek movie for his alleged tenth and final film?
Papa Universe 01.07.18	it's a trend, really. the reason for that is because the studios see a talent in a director and give them a grand budget, so if the movie turns out to be bad, they can blame the director.
Papa Universe 01.07.18	still a great way o give talented directors an exposure. they just have to not lose their cool..
Papa Universe 01.07.18	also remember that every single director was at some point indie
Papa Universe 01.07.18	others of the sort: Colin Trevorrow (from Safety Not Guaranteed to Jurassic World) Jordan Vogt-Roberts (from The Kings of Summer to Kong: Skull Island) Scott Derrickson (from The Exorcism of Emily Rose to The Day the Earth Stood Still; later from Sinister to Doctor Strange) - this is a little old at this point, but still one of the first of the indie-to-blockbuster kind Harmony Korine (from all sorts of great shit to Spring Breakers - not really a blockbuster, but still) Jaume Collet-Serra (from Orphan to a household Liam Neeson director) Roar Uthaug (from a bunch of decent Norwegian flicks to Tomb Raider) Peyton Reed (from Yes Man to Ant-Man) Steven S. DeKnight (from literally 7 short TV episodes to Pacific Rim 2) Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck (from Sugar, It's Kind of a Funny Story and Half Nelson to Captain Marvel)
furpa 01.07.18	Yeah, fair point. I have no shortage of cynicism towards major film studios as an industry so I understand the logic. And I forgot about Jordan Vogt-Roberts! And Scott Derrickson too actually now that you mention it. Damn lol. Fucking Doctor Strange haha.
Papa Universe 01.07.18	Josh Boone (from Stuck in Love and The Fault in Our Stars to The New Mutants) The Russo Brothers (from not a lot of significance to a horde of Marvel films) Julius Onah (from some middle-of-the-road action thingie to Cloverfield 3) Stefano Sollima (from Suburra to Sicario 2: Soldato) J.A. Bayona (from The Orphanage, The Impossible and A Monster Calls to Jurassic World 2) Jeremy Dyson and Andy Nyman (from quite literally nothing to Ghost Stories... so still nothing)
Papa Universe 01.07.18	remember The Day the Earth Stood Still? yeesh
furpa 01.07.18	Lol actually didn't see the Day The Earth Stood Still remake. Was probably a good call by the sounds of it.
macman76 01.07.18	Maybe I’m wrong, but indie directors are cheap and these major films have had most their major decisions made before the director gets to the set. They’re guns for hire. In my opinion, its mostly a good thing, indie directors get more visibility then make whatever movies they want from there.
Trophycase 01.07.18	I'd imagine Marvel/Disney exerts a lot of creative control. You can't exactly take a lot of risks when catering to the least common denominator. Also most superhero movies are reskinned versions of the last one, so you can't exactly expect much.
furpa 01.07.18	@macman, sure, I can understand that point. One of the reasons I wanted to mention David Lowery, since after his major studio debut he returned with the backing needed to make easily one of the most ambitious and out-there films in recent memory.
furpa 01.07.18	@trophycase, yeah totally, that's exactly my outlook too dude! That's why it's always a bummer to see a really creative mind in that position.
macman76 01.07.18	Maybe, director is the wrong term for filmmakers that make franchise films. We don’t have great information, but it seems like we should talk about filmmakers by the role they take in a set and the amount of power they exert. Some films have actors exert more control on the final product than the director, some editors are probably really key, etc
Trophycase 01.07.18	I will say though that I thought Rian did a much better job than JJ at directing the new Star Wars. I felt that he brought what JJ was missing, which was some vision and creativity. The Force Awakens was well executed but completely boring and lacking in risks, whereas TLJ had a few mistakes and missteps but ultimately was more immersive and interesting for me.
furpa 01.07.18	@trophycase, I hear ya. I really appreciated that Rian took risks with the story, even if I didn't think the film was anything marvelous. It also makes me happy that he pissed off so many thin-skinned SW fanboys lol. Always a good laugh.
Papa Universe 01.07.18	James Ponsoldt (from a regular indie darling to The Circle) F. Gary Gray (from a shitload of greatness to The Fate of the Furious) Dean Israelite (from fuck knows what to Power Rangers) Joachim Ronning and Espen Sandberg (from Kon-Tiki to Pirates of the Caribbean 5) James Gunn (from Super to Guardians of the Galaxy) Patty Jenkins (from Monster and The Killing to Wonder Woman) Jon Watts (from... something... to Spider-Man: Homecoming) Nikolaj Arcel (from a lot of Danish goodness to The Dark Tower) Tomas Alfredson (from Let The Right One In and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy to The Snowman) Alan Taylor (from Mad Men, Game of Thrones, The Sopranos and Boardwalk Empire episodes to Thor 2 and Termnator: Genisys) Niels Arden Oplev (from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Dead Man Down to Flatliners - sure, hardly a blockbuster, but still) and remember Guy Ritchie still?
Rik VII 01.07.18	Studios mostly choose unknown directors who are practically nobodys so they can make sure they maintain control over the project. 6 is a good example for that.
Papa Universe 01.07.18	"Some films have actors exert more control on the final product than the director, some editors are probably really key, etc" not really true, the director should have a hand over everything in the filmmaking process. if he doesn't, it's either because he's a lazy shit, or the studio fucked him over. some actors (looking at you Edward "The Douche" Norton) demand being there for the editing process, but they rarely have any say. the director really is the person who controls the process
Papa Universe 01.07.18	"6 is a good example for that." David Ayer? Are you serious?
Rik VII 01.07.18	Yes, he didn't have much to say about how the movie would turn out in the end. Snyder looked over it all the time, as far as I know.
butcherboy 01.07.18	ayer was never an indie director, just someone who was able to make a-list movies look more artisanal than what they actually were.. that being said, I absolutely loved Fury despite its banal everything.. waititi's move to marvel is a damn shame..
macman76 01.07.18	It’s not always true that a director has 100% control, some films have more collaboration, some have filmmakers do their own editing and cinematography others don’t. Directors aren’t the only agents in a film.
Rik VII 01.07.18	Don't forget David Lynch doing the Dune adaptation as his third feature movie after Eraserhead and Elephant Man. Although his 3 hour cut of it probably wouldn't have been a blockbuster in the narrower sense, at least that's what it sounds like when he talks about it.
butcherboy 01.07.18	@mac - there are a few Scorsese interviews and articles floating around, where he discusses in detail how difficult and vexing it is to navigate the hierarchy of production, and what parts of his best films were essentially propagated by people who weren't him against his general wishes..
furpa 01.07.18	@butcherboy, damn do you know how to find any of these articles? Sounds like a good read.
Rik VII 01.07.18	Yeah, a lot the times the quality of a movie is a group effort anyway. Like Donnie Darko turning out wayy different than the Richard Kelly initially intended, but probably for the better, regarding his director's cut (meh) and how his career went after that one as his debut. That said, outside of America, directors often have a lot more to say. Park Chan-wook once said (after directing Stoker) that in South Korea film-making works like a monarchy with the director as the king while in America he experienced it more as a democracy where other people actually had to agree with what he planned before he could go though with it.
butcherboy 01.07.18	i'll take a poke around.. I'm pretty sure I have one of them in an actual magazine.. googling it should do you though, dude.. he's been very outspoken about walking young directors through the process of actually making a movie with big studios (how long it took him to make Silence etc.)..
EyesWideShut 01.07.18	if doing a blockbuster gives them the funds and freedom to direct passion projects/indie flicks its all good with me.. Steven Soderbergh may not be doing Marvel flicks but he has the talent to direct mainstream flicks like the Ocean trilogy and Erin Brockovich to flicks like The Limey, Che, and The Girlfriend Experience.. Even some in between stuff like Side Effects, Logan Lucky, and Magic Mike.
Papa Universe 01.07.18	Can we also take notice of once great directors making complete wasteful shit today? Chris Columbus, James Foley, Alex Proyas, Vincenzo Natali and so on.
Kalopsia 01.07.18	Boy is up there with Taika's best (granted he only has 5 or 6 total), but to not mention Boy is a crime
furpa 01.08.18	@rikroach, very interesting quote about Park Chan-wook. This studio meddling issue always seems to be much more of a problem in the American film scene than anywhere else. @butcherboy, alright I'll dig around for it. Definitely interested. Thanks man!
neekafat 01.08.18	Cool list, but I wouldn't call some of these indie directors, especially Ayer
Rowan5215 01.08.18	Ragnarok didn't put a cap on Taika's creativity at all tho. Nothing about that movie is generic or watered down "The Russo Brothers (from not a lot of significance to a horde of Marvel films" man watch some Community and get educated bruv
neekafat 01.08.18	Yeah I wouldn't say Marvel necessarily dilutes indie filmmakers' visions the way some other franchises do, idk. They might have in the past but they seem way more director-friendly now
Kalopsia 01.08.18	does Martin McDonagh count in this discussion? cuz holy shit, only three directed movies to his name and they're some of my favs of all time: In Bruges Seven Psychopaths Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
neekafat 01.08.18	Yeah In Bruges is def Top 25 probably
Kalopsia 01.09.18	sad no one has mentioned Robert Eggers.. only has directed one movie so far (The Witch) and what a fucking phenomenal start to a career
furpa 01.10.18	@kalopsia, I don't think I'd count Martin McDonagh in here. He hasn't moved to franchise or major studio work. He is a fucking incredible filmmaker for sure though. Love all 3 of his films as well. As for Robert Eggers The Witch was amazing but we'll have to see where he goes from here. If Marvel recruits him too I'm gonna shit my fucking pants.
Winesburgohio 01.10.18	an anecdote: when i was in Raukokere earlier this year -- a small, barely settled area, pop. under 100 -- i visited the Anglican church there. on the wall was a picture drawn by Taika Waititi when he was in primary school, and the reverend of the time had scrawled on the bottom of it: "God protect this talented child". Looks like He did. Not a fan of Thor at all but a huge fan of Waititi