Butkuiss: Records That Changed Heavy Music

Butkuiss 07.17.23	Honestly though, given the shelf life of musical trends when I was growing up, I’m somewhat dumbfounded that the djenty sound has remained more or less unchallenged as the dominant modern metal production aesthetic for a decade now (and I guess the same could be said for trap in hip-hop, really)
Kompys2000 07.17.23	Three-to-six-piece guitar band music almost done swallowing its own tail, I reckon
zakalwe 07.17.23	It all died way before the early 2010s mate
Butkuiss 07.17.23	@zak I don’t think heavy guitar music is dead, per de (the existence of YouTube metal content factories seem to indicate there’s at least some sort of market for it) but it does seem to have entered a period of rarefaction
zakalwe 07.17.23	It’s still played, listened to, enjoyed and god forbid ‘marketed’ through the internet which is ultimately what killed it.
Mort. 07.17.23	dillingers first album is responsible for a shit ton of 2000s core bands
Mort. 07.17.23	'I mean hell, in the space of a couple of years, we had the genesis of blackgaze, djent and falsegrind' falsegrind has been around for a fair while before sunbather so im not sure what you think falsegrind is
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	the evolution of metal in the 'mainstream' is probably all but dead, but there are those that continue to innovate in amongst the hordes of regurgitation whether those bands have influenced enough to 'qualify' as being impactful outside of their niche is another matter - I'm not really sure tbh
Butkuiss 07.17.23	@Mort. Fair; will concede that point that falsegrind existed prior, but that’s also sort of a semantic argument; like saying djent existed before Periphery because SikTh, Textured and Fellsilent existed. Peak falsegrind was the early 2010s, and bands like Nails, Magrudergrind and Wormrot were a large part of that.
bellovddd 07.17.23	Define the great line was a big moment for metalcore when it came out
Ectier 07.17.23	Calculating infinity, We are the romans, Jane Doe and Blackwater park i would say where very influential records
Ectier 07.17.23	Loathe as I am to admit it theres also an arguement for Bring me the Horizon as they did generate waves througout the entire metalcore scene showing it is possible
Mort. 07.17.23	oh yeah BMTH totally inspired a shit ton of bands with Sempiternal
anode 07.17.23	zero by smashing pumpkins melvins acme rorschach joy division
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	I don't think the op is looking for other examples of OLDER bands who were influential, at least that's not what I was getting from the list
anode 07.17.23	i would argue that bands like bmth, underoath, and even tdep, botch and converge were already in semi-established genres and the people who copied them were simply clones and not necessarily influenced by them
gschwen 07.17.23	If we're talking about landmark records released recently (last ten years), two come to mind: Vein's Errorzone was the catalyst for what I've been calling "nu metal revival" Turnstile's Glow On has ushered in a wave of hardcore punk with the melody of 90s alternative rock.
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	I fail to see how 'tdep, botch and converge were already in semi-established genres' metalcore / mathcore wouldn't exist without those bands, at least not as we know it. I mean critics were completely perplexed by Converge back in the days of Petitioning, if that's not breaking new ground then I don't know what is
anode 07.17.23	yeah thats fair. its just hard to say that petitioning the empty sky was the start of an influence when the german underground metalcore scene was raging in the early 90s and rorschach existed. they definitely took it in a different direction though
gschwen 07.17.23	You could find bands like Deadguy putting out mathcore in '95. Calculating Infinity is a much bigger record and helped promote the genre, but I'm reading "semi-established" as an early adopter of an existing scene, however small it was.
AlexKzillion 07.17.23	errorzone & glow on are prob the most impactful of the last five years yeah i very much expect there to be many many sleep token clones soon tho
anode 07.17.23	^we're doomed
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	Is there any comparison in style apart from broadly 'mathcore' though? Why even mention Deadguy when Converge existed? If you want to cite a band like Deadguy for being important then what about Rorschach who were waaaaaay earlier? tDEP were very different to both and spawned a whole new set of bands either way.
gschwen 07.17.23	You can cite Rorschach. I just don't listen to them.
anode 07.17.23	Gschwen doesn’t listen to rorschach so it’s out of the discussion
Shemson 07.17.23	It was a great time for heavy music Due to music production equipment being easily accessible to everyone we had the limits of heaviness, technicality and atmospherics all majorly pushed in every direction because with a few plug ins anybody could add a full orchestra or programme insane drum patterns I’m not sure where heavy music goes from here and outside of a few albums like Loathe or The Armed there’s not been too much in the 2020s that’s really blown me away
MoM 07.17.23	I wonder if, with the last decade, greater and greater use of the ability to stream and ways to find new music (be it RYM, bandcamp, YouTube, etc.) have made it easier to find influences in a way that has simultaneously made it harder for any one band/album to have as much impact as before. You could find a new Sunbather the same day as you find a new Obscura. You can go on RYM and find dozens to thousands of albums in genres you just found out existed. Not to say it can’t happen that an album makes a big splash in influencing, but when there’s a more greatly accessible arena for novelties to be experienced, does it water down the concept of novelty itself? Especially if we’ve seen the fruits of past influences sooner and sooner with, say, Sempiternal, than back with Nevermind, now that we’ve gone beyond radio with streaming. In this, do we find it easier to hear something even slightly novel than deal with a bunch of, now easily avoidable, clones? And does this make genre movements easier to have in multitude than in one or two dominating popular metal, and in turn, watering down that movement’s novelty? I dunno.
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	We need bands tapping into already established genres not normally associated with metal / heavier music, I'd argue that my metal AOTY for the last two years both do that quite nicely... Scarcity - Aveilut (infusing a heavy dose of 'totalism' influence to disso-black) Kostnatění - Úpal (incorporating Turkish folk music to black metal) of course I'm not expecting these releases to become influential 'trends' in heavy music, but they are interesting avant-garde leaning releases which are unique enough to feel fresh Imperial Triumphant's 'Alphaville' for 2020 as well, come to think of it
IsisScript80 07.17.23	Metal is a genre that's basically existed in (at least its proto form) since that late '60s/early '70s. Since then a shit-tonne of bands have incorporated rhythmic, tempo, tuning, singing forms, but eventually, there'll come a point when most of those combinations would have alreasy been tried by someone, somewhere. In the '90s, nu-metal sounded kind of innovative... taking in influences of hip-hop and foregoing clichéd guitar solos. That ran its course, sounded tired as shit, then they came back in a newer wave of metal, more inspired by an '80s sound with contemporary roaring. There's a natural limit to how many ways you can sing, scream, growl or bark before you end up sounding like someone else before you.
Demon of the Fall 07.17.23	does 'Ulcerate - Stare Into Death' count, or am I overestimating the reach of this band based on their popularity here? I'm thinking their most accessible, melodic release would help introduce new people to disso-death and thus create a new breed of similar artists who take that idea and run with it. Then again, they already helped spawn Artificial Brain and those guys might already be doing likewise. It's not farfetched to say there's been a recent increase in bands putting the melody 'back in' and creating consonance out of dissonance imo
GhandhiLion 07.17.23	I agree with all of that thought mort. Novelty has been watered down in some sense and the likelihood of new high impactive movements diminishes with each day as a result of that.
anode 07.17.23	i think the music industry is in a bad state financially for obscure music so what we are hearing is a lot of desperation to fit a niche that makes it financially sustainable for the musicians. this along with corner-cutting production techniques is what is contributing to the homogeneity. just a theory though
GhandhiLion 07.17.23	That homogeneity is paradoxical though because a lot of music, even some mainstream music, seems to have a wider palette of influences than in the past. Genre lines are breaking down and the subcultures associated with them.
anode 07.17.23	having a wider palette of influences doesnt result in variety. i think it makes it even more homogenous because you get a melting pot so to speak another factor is how the fuck are people supposed to make time to write good music? youre supposed to bring together 3-4 likeminded musicians to work on a 99% of the time unlucrative product while having a 40 hours a week day job. yeah fucking right. im completing forgoing my social life and career to pursue a solo music project and it still feels fucking impossible and i have a great job
IsisScript80 07.17.23	^ Throw A.I. into the mix.
auberginedreams 07.17.23	Heavy music fans can basically be divided into two distinct categories now, people who love Sleep Token, and people who fucking hate Sleep Token
Butkuiss 07.17.23	Sleep Tokin’? Sorry, don’t even do it when I’m awake!