eternium: This Is Why Anti-piracy Laws Are Stupid

eternium 01.21.12	We are all criminals.
Trebor. 01.21.12	If it wasn't for piracy, I would only have like 200 albums and probably not be the person I am today
TheSpirit 01.21.12	beautiful list
Hyperion1001 01.21.12	piracy is the best
GenusHomo 01.21.12	I agree with: ALL the arguments! :-D Fuck censorship!
MO 01.21.12	solllllid list, and I agree this censorship shit sucks shit
Trebor. 01.21.12	It's always Eternium and Foreverendeared who make the strongest points
Acanthus 01.21.12	"Because musicians should be happy to be making music." - paired up with Burzum, made me lawl a bit. Great list, agree with you.
iFghtffyrdmns 01.21.12	ok and tell that to congress/theRIAA/etc. all they care about is corporation profits at least glad sopa didn't pass.....yet. solid list.
Drawkcab 01.21.12	one of my favorite lists ever
xandermander 01.21.12	I'm going to buy the Meshuggah album... after I download it and make sure it's good.
ConsiderPhlebas 01.21.12	"Because how else would a grindcore band from Singapore be able to tour the world?" Fuck yeah. Cool list.
fulgrim 01.21.12	Sweet list.
Jruined 01.21.12	Good list. I'm downloading everything I don't have off of this list (even if I don't like it) just so I can make a compilation and share it with as many f'n people as possible.
Jruined 01.21.12	Make it three compilations. probably could do it on two, but quality would suffer (and no I'm not making fun of Slipknot).
pjquinones747 01.21.12	Norma Jean. Oh and fuck Drake. I'm doing too nice by capitalizing his name.
eternium 01.21.12	The RIAA is on life support as it is. I think this SOPA thing is turning point, especially with Obama being against it and turning down all of the lobbying from "Hollywood" corporations. Maybe they will finally accept the reality for what it is.
Jruined 01.21.12	Obama was against NDAA until a few minor changes were made that would not interfere with the language that affected the executive powers that were set up by Bush and his lawyers, in the footsteps of other prior elected dictators. I'm sure that is the case here as well. The RIAA is not on life support they pay too many people out in D.C., or too many on board are well paid.
MO 01.21.12	"Because we're all going to download this anyway" DEFINITELY going to buy it
Coast 01.21.12	List = truth.
eternium 01.21.12	You're going to download it first. I think Obama is against censoring the internet. Many of the biggest supporters of SOPA seemed to be old guys that don't really understand what the internet is. I don't consider NDAA as big of a deal as a lot of people because it doesn't really change anything. We've been putting people away without trial for years. Obama betrayed us long ago on this issue.
Divine 01.21.12	The description for 4, made me lol
eternium 01.21.12	Do you mean 24?
Jruined 01.21.12	This year we had an assassination of an American (and his son) happen openly with no trial. NDAA is an extension of that and is more serious than SOPA by a mile. Edit: or kilometer whichever you prefer. Either way I'm finding everything on this list, ripping it, and distrubiting it. With the list title as the disc face.
eternium 01.21.12	You mean last year. And NDAA just puts what we've been doing forever into law. In reality this might give the opening for ACLU or something to challenge the law in court, if they actually do so.
Jruined 01.21.12	I hope so (concerning the ACLU who I've grown to appreciate over the last 5 years or so) NDAA was on the table last year as well, but it was a few months before the language was acceptable to be signed in by the president. Just because we've been doing things as a nation for however long doesn't make it right, nor does it make it acceptable to give a pass to the people we put into office for good or ill.
Jruined 01.21.12	an-Awlaki's assassination was a danger to all of us, last year or in the current one. Edit: He should have been tried in a court of law and then executed as a traitor if necessary, not bombed with no recourse. Hell, every seditious band I enjoy from Bad Religion to Propaghandi to whatever... would be bombed according to the criteria they used.
Jruined 01.21.12	In other words, SOPA doesn't really matter. They have us by the nuts if they want to with NDAA anyway.
eternium 01.21.12	But sadly we're still a country that is forced to choose between lesser evils. I wish that Obama did close down Gitmo, that he tried to capture terrorists and put them in court, and that he refused to sign NDAA with that language in it. The reality is that it's either Obama or the guys who accuse him of being soft on terrorism despite all of this and want to go to war with Iran.
Jruined 01.21.12	No the reality is, Obama is as bad as Bush is as bad as Clinton is as bad as Bush is as bad as Regan is as bad as Carter etc, etc, etc, back at least 70 years. It can be changed if people are less willing to buy into the idea that we are a two party society. We aren't. Both parties tow the same line, which is expand the hegemony and keep the state in control via social programs and expansion of unjust war. The only way that things will change is by us proles taking these things into our own hands. We can, and I'm sure we will. The idea that we have to choose lesser evils is a cop out, what has to happen is we as a nation have to take responsibility for ourselves. Not for altruistic reasons, but just to survive as a nation.
eternium 01.21.12	The idea that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans, that Obama is as bad as Bush is just wrong. Obama is winding down the wars that Bush began. Iraq is already pretty much over. Afghanistan is getting there. That is the proof necessary. Three years in Bush had already started two wars without Congressional approval. Obama has ended a war, is in the process of ending another, and did temporarily take part in the United Nations approved bombing of Libya, which helped topple that dictatorship. Obama is continuing to argue for cuts to defense and it is the Republicans that are fighting those cuts so heavily. The parties are both corporatist but one more than the other. Yes, our country would be far better off if Americans took responsibility for their own system but the truth is that the vast majority of people still don't care. The majority of the poor don't even vote while 80% of the rich do. If it wasn't for the big websites then the SOPA protest would have been virtually invisible and people would still have no idea that it even exists.
Jruined 01.21.12	He expanded Afghanistan. His cabinet is still trying to keep a toehold in Iraq. Iran according to the CiA, and the IAEA is not in possession of nuclear arms yet Obama and company keep pushing sanctions and the like. Add to that the fact that there is no ending of war when you take what you had in Iraq and throw them into Africa (what 5 countries right now)? Bush would have done this too, so would have Clinton. Hell anyone remember Kosovo, I have a few Serb friends that do and they seem to realize more so than most people that the line is blurred and Obama is no better than anyone before him. They also have a huge vendetta against Clinton for bombing the shit out of their country without asking for permission. Something tells me the tribals in Afghanistan feel the same way.
Jruined 01.21.12	Dammit I have to work. This is good. I'll try to get back for responses later, but I might miss until tomorrow afternoon Eastern time. Thanks for the dialogue.
Masochist 01.21.12	Disagree with a few of your points: "Because people shouldn't go to jail for enjoying art." -People DON'T go to jail for enjoying art. People go to jail for STEALING art. There's a difference, and the latter has been a fact for centuries. "Because thousands of people would have never heard some of their music without free downloads." -That's why there's free streaming. I usually don't download an album unless I stream it first, because I don't want to waste the hard drive space. "Because I wouldn't have bought your record if I didn't love it first." -I do that all the time, ESPECIALLY when I'm downloading songs illegally. When I want four records at a time for a band who I'm really interested in, a lot of times I'll buy two albums from Amazon and download two albums from Mediafire (if you're confused, see the last paragraph). "Because many independent artists would not have the global support that they do." -It's not because of PIRACY that an artist like Arcade Fire has a legit chance to win a Grammy, it's because of the entire internet itself. The internet as a tool for streaming music, advertising, getting other people's opinion on different bands, meeting others with similar music tastes, etc. It's not STRICTLY because of piracy that bands get their names out there. "Because real artists want their work appreciated more than they want it bought as a commodity." HA! Don't kid yourself; most artists do enjoy their craft for the pure skill involved, but trust me, the ones that love it also love getting paid. Don't for a second think that its normal for an artist to want to give up his/her pay for "the love of the art." Now, I definitely download illegally. And I hate the big record companies and the RIAA for how greedy they've become with other people's creations, but I don't delude myself into thinking that piracy helps the artist, or is good for anyone else but myself (and I've said as much in some other thread). It's not, trust me. I don't care if you download legally, illegally, or wherever the hell you get your music, just don't think that you're doing the artists any favors by pirating their music, because it's so readily available to listen to on the internet through streaming (YouTube, Grooveshark, Rhapsody, Last.fm, ZunePass, Spotify, etc.), and the forums for music discussions are so numerous, that they can get their name out with or without BitTorrent to help them.
Masochist 01.21.12	But as for the title...I agree. I think Anti-Piracy laws are stupid, mainly because I can't see it becoming anything else except overregulation: "To prevent this from happening, we're going to have to police this, this, this, that, and this." ...and that's not good for anyone.
Trebor. 01.21.12	This is why we can't have nice things
eternium 01.21.12	Piracy is a large part of the formula. Without piracy then the Arcade Fire would probably not be anywhere close to where they are today. Not everything is streaming somewhere online, bands wouldn't have the number of fans that they do without piracy, many people would not have given money to these bands without having pirated their music first, and these bands wouldn't see the popularity that they do without piracy. Piracy has done amazing things for independent music.
Relinquished 01.21.12	"most artists do enjoy their craft for the pure skill involved, but trust me, the ones that love it also love getting paid." so true, many of the bands we love have it real tough on the road. beautiful list, but the dude from Norma Jean has a point. getting mad about it won't do shit but you are obligated to do your part for the music you love.
Relinquished 01.21.12	and if it wasn't for pirating I wouldn't have found my cousin and have a chance to play this year's Roadburn with her.
porch 01.21.12	"The idea that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans, that Obama is as bad as Bush is just wrong. Obama is winding down the wars that Bush began" lol it should be pretty clear by now that the main differences between them are that one was basically a cartoon villain that dealt in aggressive rhetoric and overt war while the other is a democratic warmonger who prefers covert war and intervention
ShousoStrip 01.21.12	Without piracy, last.fm or sputnikmusic won't have 1/10 of their members as they do today, as most will still be stuck with listening to Simple Plan and not begin to love music so much they signed up for the sites.
Shuyin 01.21.12	^this
eternium 01.21.12	There's more issues than just foreign policy.
liledman 01.21.12	the best thing about illegal downloading is that out of print and commercially unavailable items are easily found, which is something that the record stores, labels, film producers etc still dont think about. the reason people download more than they buy has a lot to do with the endless variety of stuff you cant get easily or at all from stores.
Chrisjon89 01.21.12	"the best thing about illegal downloading is that out of print and commercially unavailable items are easily found" This is true. That's a definite positive, that stuff like that can stay in circulation where money isn't an issue anymore anyway. I buy CDs as often as I can afford them, for a variety of reasons. I also download stuff, and if I really love it and it's available I'll buy it. When I just download, the reality is I'm ripping the artist off the vast majority of the time.
Emim 01.21.12	"lol it should be pretty clear by now that the main differences between them are that one was basically a cartoon villain that dealt in aggressive rhetoric and overt war while the other is a democratic warmonger who prefers covert war and intervention" yay porch and I agree on something. as for the list, no winning points can really be made for either side. pro-piracy you have many if not all the points here, whereas no matter how you slice it, you're still stealing music.
Parallels 01.21.12	Every album I've downloaded and enjoyed, I've purchased. I've got upwards of 300 CD's now. Tell me I would still have that many if I didn't download illegally.
Auschwitz 01.21.12	some good points on this list. ive noticed that most of the artists bitching about illegal downloading are rich fucks like lars ulrich, and that most underground bands who are asked about it are kind of neutral and dont have much to say about it. they think its great that more people are hearing it. they should be asking the ones that it really affects, not the greedy cocksuckers who make millions and whine about 1000 dollars.
AsoTamaki 01.21.12	Lol, I can't believe how many people actually fool themselves into believing this stuff. Amazing.
liledman 01.21.12	yeah sonic i agree. their calculations on money lost are wildly inaccurate, when most wouldnt have sampled as many things without it being freely available, and wouldnt know of as many artists/albums/films/shows etc without the ability to easily check them out.
liledman 01.21.12	also i am still amazed that the major labels still have their heads in the sand regarding the quality of the music impacting sales. that and the malice they encourage through their attitude to a whole new generation.
deathofasalesman 01.21.12	BLACK MARCH everyone.
KyokushinMaster 01.21.12	@ Sonicspeed - I uplaud you for buying all the albums that you liked. but the simple truth is the majority don't. i also own everything i have except some my friends gave me but they bought legally too.
eternium 01.22.12	"regarding the quality of the music impacting sales" yesssssssssssss
Restrikted 01.22.12	The government should really see this haha
Ire 01.22.12	Alcest Ecailles De Lune "Because practically no one would know who this is without it." if that's true then omfg that would be awesome
00mee 01.23.12	http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/no_money_mo_problems/ eternium, have a read of that article. I think bands like thursday and thrice are suffering the worst out of downloading. Yes, a grindcore band from Singapore would be able to tour the world, and yes the authorities are going to the wrong artists (Metallica) who have enough money at is. It's this middle tier of artists that are really hurting, who's sole career is based on music. That cannot happen anymore, and artists of our decade are going to have to find an income elsewhere. It's not sustainable, but in the meantime, neither is the governments proposed internet laws to curb this. If music loses its currency altogether, it becomes art, that much is sure. But bands will have to cut corners on production and packaging and marketing, labels and studios will disappear, tours will be scaled back, and it's a bleak outlook for the very quality of music. The governments 'quick- fix' is to censor the internet, but I cant see this helping the situation either. Music won't be able as far-reaching, consumer taste will dwindle, and as such many bands around today will cease to exist. It's a tough argument, because on both ends of the spectrum, it wont work.
immortalizepain 02.04.12	a very beautiful list I must say.
ChuckyTruant 02.04.12	I don't steal much music. Just cause
Wizard 02.11.12	I like the way your presented this list, very admirable.
DeadBeat 02.11.12	Great list
Zig 02.28.19	support piracy!
Viriathus 02.28.19	Fuck corporatism in art
GhandhiLion 02.28.19	"Fuck corporatism in art". Agreed, but bands making money isn't corporatism. Fuck band's having enough money to make something like Loveless am I right?
Valzentia 02.28.19	Lostprophets: so we don't give money to a child rapist
Viriathus 02.28.19	I never said that in reference to bands making money, more in reference to big label companies leeching off of their musicians hard work.
PyramidNoise 02.28.19	I've always been of the opinion that if you appreciate the art an artists creates, that you should have no problem paying for it. Anti-Piracy laws are a necessary evil because people would take advantage if the rule was just "pay but only if you enjoy it" as fair as that'd be. Still, this is a really cool list.
Valzentia 02.28.19	fair enough
GhandhiLion 02.28.19	But that has, and still is the main outlet to make money I am afraid. wdym by leeching exactly?
Calc 02.28.19	god forbid an independent band wants to go out and make a living with this mentality lol or an established band that wants to not use a label anymore that hasn't already made their millions.
Viriathus 02.28.19	So what if its the main outlet? Doesnt mean I have to like it lol. And companies leech off of artists by not doing shit and making money off of what other people make. Fuck those lazy hacks lol.
GhandhiLion 02.28.19	So you place no value in the marketing + business of music? I'm no Alan McGee, but placing no value in the marketing/branding of music is bizarre.