AudreyMyers: 🪦RIP affirmative action

AudreyMyers 07.01.23	RIP
MoM 07.01.23	It would be nice if merit could be standard, but we do not have equity yet. The history of black America alone is marred by so much obvious, and so much not obvious, sabotage, that many black people in the States are still dealing with the generational fallout today. A quick look at slavery and post-slavery America says a lot. So, a system of merit doesn’t work when a sizable portion of our country’s population is starting from a few steps steeper and these roughly drawn borders have sizable overlap with racial demographics. And when you have Harvard having half of their freshman class getting in on legacy and connections and donations, it’s all a bunch of shit So there is no true system of merit where there in still racially-rooted disparity and a lack of equity
robertsona 07.01.23	anyone read that part where it was like “college admissions officers can consider essays about race but only evaluate them insofar as they reflect on the individual person” I was kinda like damn that seems tough
rabidfish 07.01.23	get free higher education when. they should let everyone who wants a college education in, at least for the introductory courses. Prestige and merit is fucking stupid dumb shit for elitist cunts. the real ones will always find a way, but there's also so much potential in so many people who never get the chance to show it. any of it. i've recently been shown that most people can have interesting thoughts and create new ideas if you make them feel seen and comfortable enough to let loose.
Zig 07.01.23	yes. there's no place for "positive" discrimination.
MoM 07.01.23	The infrastructure of the country’s generational layout has already built up a system of discrimination for many. You don’t have to be discriminated against directly to be affected by the mass discrimination inherent in the system, especially when you’re born into it and so were your parents. This goes back decades. It’s an heirloom and there’s no catching up
rabidfish 07.01.23	everyone should be equally able to get in debt for generations, yes. get. free. education. when.
Ryus 07.01.23	the fact that you need to pay to fucking apply to schools says a lot
Ryus 07.01.23	and you need to pay to take the act/sat
MoM 07.01.23	Free education would be an ideal outcome. Especially as it’s obviously become a business venture
Ryus 07.01.23	my school has a multibillion dollar endowment and just last night i got a text asking for a donation. i can think of very few places that deserve more of my money less than them lol
MoM 07.01.23	That’s fucked up.
robertsona 07.01.23	Yeah I get texts and emails constantly. might throw a few coins on top of that 13 billion one day those boys work hard…
SitarHero 07.01.23	Given the clusterfuck that higher education is at the moment, they might be doing minorities a favor by letting them avoid absolute mountains of debt for a degree that's currently not going to do much more than get them a min wage job out the door.
rabidfish 07.01.23	comunity-oriented education is what is needed. college is more oriented to individual gain. I don't know if college as a form can make that shift, tbh. either in the USA or world-wide. i still believe that individuals who want to learn more about how they can help their comunities should be let into college for free.
Voivod 07.01.23	Not a US citizen but this is downright wrong because it misses the very spirit/context by which affirmative action was implemented. I was reading this earlier today and the guy who wrote it described the spirit/context aptly. Elite Multiculturalism Is Over https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/affirmative-action-scotus-ruling-elite-institutions-diversity-scholarship-impact/674576/
SitarHero 07.01.23	The price of higher education is a related, but separate problem. Even if it was free for everyone to go to Harvard, the privileged would still have an advantage when it comes to just getting in. Plus, rich kids paying full tuition probably helped pay for kids like me to go to college on a full ride. The other problem is that while affirmative action may be effective at upliftment on an individual level, it's effectiveness at large-scale social upliftment of a community is debatable. India has had affirmative action (called 'reservation') for three generations now, and its actual effectiveness is the topic of hot debate. One of the problems is that affirmative action creates a class of privileged minorities (like Clarence Thomas now is), a so-called "creamy layer" whose families continue to benefit from affirmative action to the detriment of the minority group as a whole. But of course, getting rid of something like affirmative action or reservation because of its flaws, without actually having something else to take its place and rectifying social injustice is dumb as hell.
MoM 07.01.23	Personally, I’d like full automation, or as near as we could get, and then just get rid of a monetary system globally. If we did it globally, we could just share resources and have the automation do the work. Unfortunately, we got people who like that there are poor people so that they can bask in the not being poor, among other things, etc.
ArsMoriendi 07.01.23	Merit should be the only deciding factor, in a perfect world, HOWEVER, in reality, it was never the case that this was the only factor Life advancement, in reality, is mostly about connections and wealth and if you don't have a history of having the connections or wealth, you're often doomed from the start. Affirmative action was a way to counteract that long history under the assumption that people of any race/gender etc could have high merit in spite a lack of connections/weath. Was it perfect? No. But it's worse now that it's gone What a fucked system
PotsyTater 07.01.23	Moms comment is perfect
Voivod 07.01.23	The plaintiffs in the motion against affirmative action, lament the fact that they can’t get into the Ivy League institution of their choice, whereas they can still thrive by attending a different college/grad school of equal or slightly inferior quality. The beneficiaries of affirmative action who could thrive as well in Ivy League institutions, do not have the same alternative, for some of them like the author of the article I posted earlier, it's either Ivy League or institutions with far less facilities for their potential.
SgtShock 07.01.23	@Sitar I know it’s not the cynical, contrarian position that makes the rounds in discussions like these, but a degree is worth more than ever. The pay gap between degree holders and those with just a high school education is the highest its ever been and will likely only grow wider. This isn’t to say there aren’t opportunities elsewhere (especially if one is pretty certain/determined about their career just coming out of high school), but there is a reason college degree holders on average earn more, have better benefits in their jobs, and have lower unemployment overall.
Jots 07.01.23	more readily-educated non-whites increases the prevalence of Fred Hampton-types, and economically organized movements, can’t be having that. gotta keep people desperate tbh one of the “greatest tricks” right-wingers pulled was co-opting the “free speech” vanguard
botb 07.01.23	Read something somewhere yesterday about how like 50% of white accepted applicants are athletes, children of alumni, or their families have donated to the school… obviously I’m paraphrasing but until shit like that doesn’t happen anymore we need to level the playing field somehow.
treos777 07.02.23	Yeah should be no legacy enrolments if we're not going to try and make higher education a less racist cesspool of white bullshit.
unclereich 07.02.23	rip student loan forgiveness.
Get Low 07.02.23	I agree with them ending affirmative action for public (federally funded) colleges, but I feel like private universities should generally be allowed to accept whomever they see fit with whatever criterion they deem necessary without government interference, since they aren't government-funded in the first place.
Drifter 07.02.23	wow
treos777 07.02.23	That some people here don't seem to understand the terrifying precedent this sets for bipoc that have scraped these small victories back from the evil that is the us empire is well I guess unsurprising. And I guess it's all a bandaid on a gaping wound until the land is returned to first nations people and proper reparations given to African Americans. God why am I showing my Indigi commie ass on this website.
robertsona 07.02.23	I teach at a school in the Bronx where I think 467 of 471 students are on free lunch, and in New York if you’re making over about $34,000 as a 3 person household, you’re off free lunch and onto reduced lunch (the four students not on free lunch at my school are on reduced lunch). 38 of those kids are classified as homeless—I don’t see these kids once they’re off the block outside the school, but you see traces of situations…I’m always the only white person in the classroom I guess that’s relevant Sometimes I wonder how they focus on school at all. this might be a stupid question, but is the judgment call along the lines of affirmative action on the basis of race always having been wrong, or that we did an experiment to correct racial inequality due to slavery and its afterlife, and now the experiment has come to a close?
sneakers 07.02.23	The justification for affirmative action is that diversity is good. It used to be about reparations for slavery and jim crow. But in the past decade at least its about diversity. NYT did a podcast on it
Voivod 07.02.23	For some odd reason, the heated debate of Jon Stewart and Bill O’Reilly in Comedy Central over white privilege, has come to my mind. Needless to say, Stewart argued that white privilege exists, whereas O' Reilly, unsurprisingly, said the opposite. I don't live in the States to know first hand, but as an outsider, I think that affirmative action was a way to see how the US society would wind over time, had white privilege not been the prevailing force in every sector or life. It's unsurprising that the supreme court judges that Trump brought to the fold, have reached such a ruling.
sneakers 07.02.23	and for this you can thank all the progressives/ultra-liberals who either sat out the 2016 election or protest voted because "anything is better than hillary"
sneakers 07.02.23	also the african american vote was low in 2016.
sneakers 07.02.23	donald "what have you got to lose" trump
Voivod 07.02.23	The truth is that even when someone compares wildly different contexts, that "what have you got to lose" part you mentioned, is what really derails countries and societies. It happened in Greece in 2015 elections.
sneakers 07.02.23	I didn't know about that, but at least yeah in 2016 trump said to african americans "what have you got to lose" (if you vote trump) ... well .... this ...
robertsona 07.02.23	The Notorious RBG 🙏🏻
Voivod 07.02.23	@ sneakers Well, unfortunately, there's always something to lose, and we Greeks know it very well, because in June/July 2015 we looked at the abyss and the abyss looked back at us.
MillionDead 07.02.23	"That some people here don't seem to understand the terrifying precedent this sets for bipoc that have scraped these small victories back from the evil that is the us empire is well I guess unsurprising. And I guess it's all a bandaid on a gaping wound until the land is returned to first nations people and proper reparations given to African Americans. God why am I showing my Indigi commie ass on this website." With you, comrade.
ArsMoriendi 07.02.23	RBG failed everyone by not retiring during Obama's administration
sneakers 07.02.23	Yep. Diane feinstein doing something similar now.
sneakers 07.02.23	Seth putnam said it well, You’re Old, Fuck You!
SitarHero 07.03.23	"RBG failed everyone by not retiring during Obama's administration" She really fucked up her own legacy.
Voivod 07.03.23	What is the mutual context of RBG and affirmative action? I'm asking out of plain/genuine curiosity.
robertsona 07.03.23	I don’t know how the Supreme Court works, so take this with a grain of salt, but the idea is that if she had retired early, in theory knowing she was old and about to die, we would have gotten an Obama-selected (?) Dem to replace her. Because she instead died while a judge, we get uhhhh was it gorsuch. Kavanaugh. The court thereby distributed political affiliation wise, we get decisions like the ones we’ve been getting lately.
Kompys2000 07.03.23	I mean when people say it they're expressing frustration with how complacent liberals have been in beating back the religious right wing, which is fair and I agree, but idk I just think it's scary that the supreme court who can just change the laws is even in the realm of partisan politics to begin with. The federalist society are fucking psychos, anyone with an ounce of sense should be worried about the level of influence they have in America's courts
sonictheplumber 07.03.23	hell as far as im concerned any bad shit that happened after 2016 is cause the DNC let it fuckin happen. shouldve campaigned outside of manhattan and san francisco you old bitch
sonictheplumber 07.03.23	whats funny is dems see this shit and just ramp up the "blue no matter who" rhetoric that got us here and in case any of you are NPR libs, no i dont like putin or trump its interesting to see what dems can even sell to people now that abortion is gone, affirmative action gone, what other leverage do they have? "we're the only party that doesnt want segregation so you need to vote for mitt romney (D)" will be the party line in 2028
robertsona 07.03.23	that post is on point, sonic, that party line is perfect.
Voivod 07.03.23	Fair enough. -- shouldve campaigned outside of manhattan and san francisco Ironically enough, that's what Philip K. Dick has written in his book "Radio Free Albemuth" Blues were content being the majority in the coasts, didn't care at all about the heartland, and thought they were the majority in the whole country.
conesmoke 07.03.23	BAHLEGDEH
botb 07.03.23	Term limits across the board in government, there should be no such thing as a career politician. The fucked part is that’s a widely agreed upon thing bipartisan-wise, they just won’t do it because da powers that b
sneakers 07.03.23	the reason supreme court justices, and federal judgers are given life time appointments is so that they can rule/judge according to their conscience rather than have to worry about appeasing a constituency or base. this makes sense. but I agree in terms of congress. there should be term limits there absolutely.
SitarHero 07.03.23	"What is the mutual context of RBG and affirmative action?" She was asked to retire in 2013 and 2014 because of her bouts with cancer and worsening health and chose not to when she could have been replaced by a liberal judge. Instead, she passed away in 2020 and was replaced with Amy Coney Barrett, who is an avowed christian conservative, by Trump. It probably wouldnt have made much of a difference to affirmative action, but it absolutely made a difference to abortion rights because Roe v Wade was overturned by a 5-4 decision of the SCOTUS. The tragic irony is that RBG, icon of women's rights and equality, set women's rights back 50 years.