MegaResurrectedJake4: Cannot Stand Math/Technical Genres

MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	Also if anyone knows Chaos-core with more melody, I'm real fucking down. I've honestly been on the prowl tho for a real long time, so don't know how much is left that I haven't heard
trve 05.11.16	delete your internet pls
torts 05.11.16	you literally just need to listen to 7 until it grows on you. takes a good few listens to really even start to appreciate it
tempest-- 05.11.16	lol you hate Dillinger cos of their lyrics I can't believe this
Artuma 05.11.16	jam drive like jehu ffs
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@torts, ya I probably will tbh.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@tempest, well yes, but I also recognize their quality. Its more the lyrical genre that is off-putting to me.
CaimanJesus 05.11.16	Anyone know heavy/hardcore rap?
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^nah
Shemson 05.11.16	Chaos-core? Going off what you like and don't like I would say Pass The Flask by The Bled is probably something you'd enjoy a lot.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	I do try to know a lot about Jesus tho, and from what I gather he rarely takes the form of a croc. might be cool tho
Mort. 05.11.16	MAYBE ITS BECAUSE UR A PUSSY BRUH
alienobserver 05.11.16	^
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^unlikely
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@Shemson, that's a good suggestion. I feel as though i only don't like it cause of its 2003 production and there's something about the vocals that are a bit unappealing for me. but its pretty decent and definitely has a chaotic melodious feel to it that i'm talking about. thanks bruh
Mort. 05.11.16	if u dont like chaos so much go back to the shit core like abr and the like
Shemson 05.11.16	No worries man, I take it you dig Protest The Hero-Kezia?
Gmork89 05.11.16	I kind of agree with this, seems like a lot of these bands just see how much they can coordinate stopping and starting their playing in sync with each other, and then do that really fast while the singer screams all over the place. There is obviously talent there but as far as being musically interesting it's usually just annoying. Dillinger i'm looking at you. I've come a long way towards appreciating different types of music over the years but this is one thing I just haven't been able to get into.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^@Mort, ur comment doesn't make much sense given that I still listen to 'shit core' that i like. It just so happens that maturity demands different music. What I've found is that artists who are more mature, especially in core, usually deal with more brutal truths of life. this tends to bring on chaotic themes, and as people are broken down in their lives, they lose their melody and start to become impressed with their own idiosyncratic structures that keep themselves afloat. Its very rare that artists who go very deep into emotion/philosophy/life don't come out chaotic. But I believe ppl are confused that the chaos is the maturity, when it is merely an unfortunate by-product of maturity often times, and they often are socially persuaded to give up their openness in favor of chaotic self-defenses that are hard to criticize. I find myself sympathizing greatly with many of these artists, though I am both sad and frustrated to see them be swallowed by their own self-conscious. Personally, I hope to preserve the order and melody, which means I'm growing increasingly restricted in the music scene, given that it seems like very few ppl make it to where I want to go. I think ABR delivers the goods 2 minutes per album. But I think those 2 minutes really have a lot of God in them, regardless of whatever pride might be staining the rest of it.
torts 05.11.16	that was probably the dumbest fucking comment I have ever seen in the history of this site
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@Gmork, agreed bruh, lot of talent. too much waste. at least they have some shining moments tho, inspirational even if flawed
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@Shemson, I actually haven't. I'll check it now
BeyondCosby 05.11.16	I mean, it's not for everyone for sure. DEP took be a few listens before I began to "get it" but that doesn't necessarily mean you're missing something. "Get it" to me means that it makes sense within the construct of what I define as music. If you don't "get" something that doesn't mean you're not an intellectual listener, but that you just don't appreciate the sound others would consider music. Props to you for having the balls to admit that on this site.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^BeyondCosby, yeah for sure. I've kind've been waiting for that moment of "getting it", just in terms of that moment where you're kind've moved to sympathy for whatever music is being produced. Kind've like a self-recognition moment, adopting a new emotion/sound to your person. This is one of the reasons I started learning Jane Doe on guitar. But it all seemed off to me even when I played them. Technique is intriguing, but sounds like shit. Was able to improv some great stuff tho after having been inspired by some of it tho.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@Shemson, another good pick for chaotic melody. Still missing a bit of conviction and focus tho. Obviously all these descriptors are inefficient, but I just mean when the chaos gives way to beautiful order and rhythm, its hype. PTH are a little continuously fast/jumpy/off-melodic. I'd be looking for something more like BIR or Totem sKin or sections of the Armed ('blessings'/end of 'forever scum'/dead actress), something that hits hard in focused spurts, and almost feels like a personal story of growth/struggle. PTH and the Bled are a little disconnected from passion I feel, kind've like Architects.
torts 05.11.16	"Technique is intriguing, but sounds like shit" might have well just said you couldn't play guitar well even if yr life depended on it
JohnFire 05.11.16	Also Jazz. I'm gonna call my band that. On topic: All of the bands on the list that I listen to have more melodic albums than the ones you listed (except Birds In Row and Totem Skin)... Every Time I Die -> Gutter Phenomenon & The Big Dirty The Armed -> These Are Lights (but I agree that Untitled is ruined by too much chaos) Architects -> The Here And Now (not that good though) & Daybreaker Converge -> Axe To Fall The Chariot -> The Fiancee The Dillinger Escape Plan -> Ire Works Norma Jean -> The Anti Mother (not that good either though), Meridional
BigHans 05.11.16	Agree hard with list title
JeetJeet 05.11.16	Tbh I never really liked 7,8, and 9 either. None of those 3 bands impress me. However, 6 is incredible and ETID can do no wrong IMO. Judging by your taste you should listen to Nocturnal Masquerade by Toothgrinder. Its chaotic but it has tons of melody too. Very aggressive and beautiful.
JeetJeet 05.11.16	Also, you NEED to listen to Sikth. Particularly Death of A Dead Day and Opacities.
Shemson 05.11.16	Sikth is a good shout, also BTBAM, I mean they literally wrote a song about beauty coming from chaos on The Silent Circus.
Tyler. 05.11.16	I agree with this list
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@torts I picked up the guitar six months ago in my personal time. I've improv-ed like 3 hrs a day during that time. I know zero theory, and zero songs in full. I have checked out BFMV, red hot chili peppers, godsmack, and converge just to get a little insight on how hard things are and where I stack up and because they don't have guitar tabs for everything, which is why it was mostly pop and then converge. After 6 months I improv and write material more sophisticated then the first 3 (easily done) and slightly less sophisticated (though a lot better sounding in my opinion) than Converge. I feel very secure in my abilities thus far into my career, and will be looking to make demos this summer. I believe avoiding your judgment would require me to use mannerisms/vocabulary I am not familiar with zero knowledge of theory. I have not found it to be an issue thus far as I write progressively more complex material. I do not believe your judgment is necessary, and I hold it in very low esteem.
torts 05.11.16	you are not fucking intelligent
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^@torts haha all evidence of my life is to the contrary, but I guess if you say so
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@torts I think what is not intelligent is a judgment with no evidence. I believe those who are not intelligent often don't resort to intelligent arguments, but instead to short personal attacks. I believe the dumb have been calling the wise stupid forever, and yet the wise are still wise, and the dumb are still dumb. I do not know if you are dumb, because then I'd be making a dumb assumption. I might make an assumption that you are in fact abandoning your intellect in this situation in order to comfort yourself as you've taken personal offense to my list. But that would still be an assumption.
Shemson 05.11.16	It's funny you say you never learnt theory because that's what Architects attribute the raw and chaotic sound on Nightmares to, the fact that they were self taught with no theory. Honestly I never learnt theory either and I'm pretty comfortable in my abilities to write music too.
Mystletainn 05.11.16	Jfc
owen 05.11.16	smh
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	@Shemson, that's a cool piece of information honestly.
chemicalmarriage 05.11.16	Then don't listen to it you fat douche
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.11.16	^@chemicalmarriage why i'm addressing it mostly/why i'm drawn to it is because of the rare melodic sections that are very good and the potential talent close to the genre of my preference (dark hardcore). This is why I'm drawn to listening to them again and again because a lot of the bands I want to make the best music turn to this, when I want their evolution to be into something more harmonious that would be perfect for me. But instead almost all of them turn to this, which is making it harder and harder to find new tunes. Of course, I could produce the tunes I'm looking for, which I plan to, but I of course would love to have role models/ more music I love. But there is no mostly melodic, hooky Totem Skin. I see that as the fault of chaos, which is tainting almost everything I'm previewing these days
Trebor. 05.11.16	omg guys I don't like music that's good, where are the open note chugs? Oh man too many actual notes and rhythms what is this shit I just want to get down
brainmelter 05.11.16	damn dude, get the hell outta here
Brabiz 05.11.16	I hate Converge
Mort. 05.11.16	the pseudo intellectual nonsense in this thread is superb fam
Deathconscious 05.11.16	"you literally just need to listen to 7 until it grows on you." lol. theres a difference between an album being a grower and having to listen to an album so many times that it just reconditions your brain into liking it.
Deathconscious 05.11.16	"Its very rare that artists who go very deep into emotion/philosophy/life don't come out chaotic. But I believe ppl are confused that the chaos is the maturity, when it is merely an unfortunate by-product of maturity often times, and they often are socially persuaded to give up their openness in favor of chaotic self-defenses that are hard to criticize. I find myself sympathizing greatly with many of these artists, though I am both sad and frustrated to see them be swallowed by their own self-conscious. " holy fuck, just stop, youre making stupid generalizations and reading way too far into it.
porcupinetheater 05.11.16	Like, you do you, Man, and appreciate what you appreciate, but when you're making comments such as, "It just so happens that maturity demands different music," you really need to get off your fucking high horse. Music has no possible objectivity to it, please don't pretend that because something focuses on melody, it's somehow more mature than something that operates almost entirely in hard hitting dissonance, or that tight rhythms are inherently more mature than wild syncopation. Or that lyrics about philosophy or positive forward progression are somehow more worthy of respect than lyrics detailing emotional/relationship strife. I think you need to take a step back from some of these pseudo-intellectual arguments you're trying to make to somehow strengthen the argument, "I don't personally enjoy this," which isn't an argument that needs any strengthening to begin with. Aside: if you think Dillinger's lyrics are entirely aggressive towards another party in a relationship, you need to check out some of the passionate self-loathing and bitter personal regret on One of Us is the Killer
Deathconscious 05.11.16	^ that. and stop pretending to know why all of these bands play chaotic material. maybe some of them do just want to masturbate their guitars and show off their skills. maybe some of them like the challenge. and/or maybe thats just the sound they like. "they often are socially persuaded to give up their openness in favor of chaotic self-defenses that are hard to criticize." yes, thats probably why they play the way they do. because society likes to push bands to make music that is as inaccessible as possible. i think you really figured it out!
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@porcupinetheatre, @adolfchrist, I thank both of you for being humans (not sarcastic). @porcupinetheatre, I don't agree that music has no possible objectivity to it. I believe music is a reflection of spirit. That means it is in one sense completely subjective, but objectivity is a composition of subjective perspectives. All subjectives, in my opinion, operate interconnectedly with objective reality. In the context of this argument, in my opinion, a subjective argument in order to be truthful must revolve around objective reality. In the case of lyrics about relationship strife: it is not that philosophy is better lyrical subject matter or anything u criticized my view as being. It is that when talking about one's own relationship, one could be honest or dishonest with themselves, as we all often are. I believe 100% empathy is enough to recognize a person's self-deceit (not absolutely, can be wrong based upon imperfect empathy, which is a reflection of just being human and imperfect and not understanding others' perspectives well enough). Though it may seem like I am trying to back up my own personal dislike for this material. That is not what I am doing. I am honestly assessing this material and venting my personal frustration to it. I'm also exposing a far-out opinion on a site that I feel normally encourages, and almost bullies, ppl into liking progressively more chaotic, technical, etc. material that I feel sometimes plays a bit too much on ppl's self-esteem. "Maturity demands different music" this is not being on a high horse. this is your judgment, from your high horse. How does maturity not demand different music? Do you really not consider some of the music you listened to in your childhood not to be completely immature aka delusional compared to some music you listen to now that blatantly understands what the previous music was ignoring? Pop music is often delusional. "you gettin mad, I'm gettin rich." Yes. because you're a child who cares about money which is a hollow representation of genuine life production. And i am mad about it.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	Music for me is about self-recognition. I consider music "lowly" and borderline "evil" that uses art as a way of masking one's self by reproducing the self in a light that is catered to an image, driven by social comparison and social motivations. My opinion of chaos is its much like when I'm riding in a car with another person and feeling more insecure than usual but wanted to sing kinda but am getting burdened by self-consciousness. More likely to do something harsh than something soft. and harsh isn't even the word. In the context of music, especially that is in the vein of dark hardcore or some other metal, self-consciousness is hidden by chaos and technicality, and dark, brutal, regretful lyrics that would convince the viewer that the lyrics must be honest. Targets shock value as well. To me, the best "highest" music is that which can affect people genuinely, which happens first by inspiring the person who's writing it. Catharsis is my favorite thing. False catharsis, like you might have if you were being prideful on lsd, is the worst thing. I hate music that promotes personal regression to animality. I love music that promotes personal growth to conscience.The lyrics of dillinger to me are not passionate. They're anti-passionate. Regressive, rather than cathartic.
macman76 05.12.16	"Cannot Stand Math" GTFO
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@AdolfChrist, I don't know why all of these bands do what they do. I'm just offering an explanation that undoubtedly does not apply to all, though it may actually apply to all in some degree or other, given that I think this just happens, including to myself as I mentioned. Part of being human is being self-conscious, and I think socially there is a pull to being more inaccessible sometimes in some genres with some fan bases. "inaccessible" is a misleading word here tho, given that I am paradoxically saying that they try to be inaccessible in very particular ways to be more accessible aka to avoid ppl's judgments. For example, ppl love to shit on ABR. Or really anything religious these days. In one way, there is a pull for accessibility by labeling oneself Christian in one scene. In another, there is a large pull to not be judged by keeping your lyrics un-jesusy for other ppl. Depending on your band and your fanbase, it varies. If your Dillinger, there's a pull to do exactly what they do it seems to me. Yall love that shit. And I'm still here saying I might like it later, and am talking about it, and am saying I will continue to try.
MeatSalad 05.12.16	Check exotic animal petting zoo - tree of tongues
MeatSalad 05.12.16	Also jane doe and calculating infinity are awful starting points for both converge and DEP, despite their classic status.
BeyondCosby 05.12.16	New band name: Objectively Erective Subjective Perspective
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@porcupinetheatre, I believe hard hitting dissonance and wild syncopation to be much like (disliked terms coming up) imperfection, sinfulness, conflict of the world - it is an inherent part that must be listened to and understood as a means towards higher order and understanding - it is essential to evolution - but I feel as though to misunderstand these things as the objective goal is much like misunderstanding suffering as being badass when its prevailing through suffering that is badass.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@beyondcosby, lol
MeatSalad 05.12.16	Paradoxically inaccessible for the sake of accessibility on the subjective plane of reality
porcupinetheater 05.12.16	You're looking too closely at the world through your own lens - to reiterate, if you personally feel that these sorts of instrumentation and composition are in conflict with your experience of reality, and you feel that focusing entirely on them is akin to wallowing in misery is totally your call. But you seem to be trying to assert a truth beyond yourself, applying it to both listener and artist. The fact of it is, not all bands recording in this style intend their music to be as misanthropic/nihilistic as you seem to be implying, and not all listeners will interpret it as so. Not everything is geared through philosophy, and I find as a fan of quite a few of the bands you've said you aren't into, my experience is filtered through a sort of visceral experience of the moment. Rather than induce nihilistic thought, it makes these very thoughts seem temporarily irrelevant. This is even more significantly pronounced at live shows. Enjoying it may be instinctual or animalian in a certain sense, but it isn't necessarily thanks to any posturing or trying to play at being "badass." Not everything has to be ultimately melodic, not everything has to incorporate positive experience (oftentimes for an artist, the focus on violence in music, whether that violence be lyrical, emotional, or auditory, functions as a type of exorcism, and even helps an artist "prevail through suffering," as you put it. And ultimately, just because you perceive an experience to be true on a personal level (and on that level, it absolutely is true), doesn't it make it true on anywhere near a universal one.
MeatSalad 05.12.16	You could also watch a couple (good) interviews/sitdowns with whoever writes the lyrics in any given band, instead of trying your absolute hardest to draw up your own conclusions on what they're going for
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@porcupinetheatre, hype bruh. That's exactly what I was looking for. I think you misunderstand my intent in the sense that I'm not judging all or even one of these bands. I am judging a universal concept that I dislike. In the case of one of the bands you like, you could disagree with my judgment of them as base, which might be a possibility, but of which they are not in fact guilty. I am not condemning any of these bands as I'm criticized of doing, and am open to them in the future. I am expressing honest opinion here on a public forum in the hopes that at some point a person is going to put forth an honest testimony towards these releases that is productive. Your testimony to the visceral experience that makes abstract musings/self-consciousness seem temporarily irrelevant is basically what I'm looking for and I believe I have a better chance of appreciating what it is that you do. I hold these types of thoughts that are to be made temporarily irrelevant in very high esteem which is maybe why I'm put off by the idea, and yet I recognize the potential benefit of turning them off temporarily and getting lost in the visceral experience, depending on the long term ramifications.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	also the exorcism is a perfect analogy, which I of course already feel relative to many artists, its sensation in fact probably being the deepest in the more chaotic artists I listen to such as BIR.
MegaResurrectedJake4 05.12.16	@MeatSalad, nah that's rarely good. And I'm not trying to draw conclusions about what anyone's going for. I'm trying to draw conclusions about what they are doing. I'm not looking to judge the person. I'm looking to judge the product. The product is a reflection of the personal effort/catharsis, which is why I talk about personal ideas.
AsleepInTheBack 07.19.16	Recommend you give Converge another go, they definitely grow on you in my experience
OldCrime 12.13.16	"You're looking too closely at the world through your own lens - to reiterate, if you personally feel that these sorts of instrumentation and composition are in conflict with your experience of reality, and you feel that focusing entirely on them is akin to wallowing in misery is totally your call. But you seem to be trying to assert a truth beyond yourself, applying it to both listener and artist." Nailed it, @porcupinetheater "@MeatSalad, nah that's rarely good. And I'm not trying to draw conclusions about what anyone's going for. I'm trying to draw conclusions about what they are doing. I'm not looking to judge the person. I'm looking to judge the product. The product is a reflection of the personal effort/catharsis, which is why I talk about personal ideas." All music has a context. How can you judge "a reflection of the personal effort/catharsis" without first understanding, or at least, appreciating the context in which the product was created? This is, I think, what @porcupinetheater was talking about. If the only way you can appreciate these artists is as a "visceral experience", that's fine. But its definitely not the only appeal. The enjoyment of music can be very subjective and personal. Enjoy the stuff you like and don't bother over-intellectualizing the stuff you don't. "So just shut your face and take a seat. Because after all, you're just talking meat...and music? Well, it's just entertainment folks." - DT
SteveOffProbation 12.13.16	boring ass people 101
Mort. 12.13.16	i remember this thread lol
worthlessscab 12.13.16	What is this guy, straight?
OldCrime 12.14.16	Didn't see you there Mort! the pseudo intellectual nonsense in this thread is superb fam [2]
Illoomorpheme 12.14.16	Man this thread triggered the fuck out of a lot of people. I consider that success in at least 1 way.
OldCrime 12.14.16	Not really