conradtao: Fuck Elitism.

conradtao 05.01.11	Drivel.
psykonaut 05.01.11	i'll try reading this when i'm sober.
demigod! 05.01.11	elitism is the cancer that is killing music communities
Josh D. 05.01.11	DONT STOP MAKE IT POP DJ BLOW MY SPEAKERS UP TONIGHT
conradtao 05.01.11	Awful song. I love it.
qwe3 05.01.11	"In pop, cool is what sells" sometimes. not always though, i think. good read
cirq 05.01.11	stfu... tl;dr but still stfu
psykonaut 05.01.11	why are you telling conrad to stfu? he's like the least offensive user on this entire website
aok 05.01.11	Reasons to love Outkast and Beck is that they can appeal to you on both simple and complex levels
cirq 05.01.11	i was talking to you, psykonaut.
climactic 05.01.11	y u mAD THo
psykonaut 05.01.11	oh shit
Departures 05.01.11	I don't need to read this, I am above that.
liledman 05.01.11	"elitism is the cancer that is killing music communities" and its been around for hundreds of years
Trebor. 05.01.11	Fuck the elite four!
Departures 05.01.11	"and its been around for hundreds of years" really? so the internet has been around for hundred of years? interesting.
Aids 05.01.11	so.....Conrad for staff? this would make a really nice blog post. (great album choices considering the theme of the list, especially 1 and 6)
aok 05.01.11	how does one get promoted from user to contrib or from contrib to staff anyhow? just gotta get mx to like you lots or sth?
liledman 05.01.11	@departures poor attempts at sarcastic humour do not equate to elitism.
North0House2 05.01.11	But, I aspire to be 1337... :(
Winsomniac 05.01.11	Fuck Elistist? Awwwww helllllll no. COME AT ME BRO
Aids 05.01.11	Andy - they announce rounds of promotions and you usually need to apply. I don't think mx has much to do with it, I think Davey and Jom and the rest of the active review site staff make the decisions.
Deviant. 05.01.11	Staff pick contribs, MX picks staff as I far as I know I was unaware that Conrad possessed the ability to curse
Aids 05.01.11	well there you go, shows you what I know about this place.
Wolfhorde 05.01.11	"really? so the internet has been around for hundred of years?" You have really never heard of the musical program of the 3rd Reich, did ya? They were way worse than anyone on Sputnik or the internet will ever be.
sniper 05.01.11	list needs a feature. if you think elitism is a product of the internet, you should probably grow a brain.
iPim 05.01.11	great list
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	while where you come from will always matter. Conrad life is all about how you carry yourself. Also do not mistake intelligence for elitism. While many group them together (easier to insult that way); ability and arrogance are two very different things. and "S&M" rules, Rihanna could fart and it would be a great hook.
conradtao 05.01.11	I'm convinced that intelligence assumes critical thinking, which means no easy dismissals. I'm just getting frustrated with all of this talk I keep hearing about "authenticity" and, even worse, the "mainstream", all while I couldn't give less of a fuck about "artistic integrity" because it's a meaningless term.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	I wouldn't go so far as to say it is meaningless. Rather the term is hurled about with such a weight that at times we forget that most "musicians" or really "artists" need to earn money to continue creating. The idea that obtaining payback for all your time spent working is almost considered audacious by some. As though one accepting an exchange of money for art somehow makes them less "authentic." Again: we all need to make a living. But it is when someone is creating for the sole purpose of following trends to make money--furthermore when the proprietor of said art (aka: the hot bod to dance around and sing shitty songs) is thrown to the wayside one they've been used up--the idea of "integrity" comes into play. tbh the line between good art and shit is minuscule. It is all about personal opinion and ability to sell yourself. I mean shit look at the Dadaists and Pop-Art movements: all about perception.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	also don't be so hard on yourself. you rite gud : )
Observer 05.01.11	featured*
Knott- 05.01.11	Talking or writing about music is simply a manner of trying to communicate the feeling you get from music to other people, and to that end, there are elitist readers just as there are elitist writers. The people whose brains work in that way talk to each other and agree; if they care enough they go and find dissenting views and the same is true of the mainstream.
Wolfhorde 05.01.11	As for writing I agree with the aforementioned. As for lists and everything else: Almost everyone here acts like he's objectivity himself, so pretty much everyone either comes off as "fanboy" or "elitist" - though most - likely won't act like that in real life. At least I'd like to think that.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	I think the idea of actually trusting in your own opinion and "acting like objectivity himself" are unjustly lumped together quite frequently on Sputnik.
Wolfhorde 05.01.11	There's a difference between trusting your opinion or insulting someone over and over and over again for listening to "shitty music".
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	I'm not going to sit here and pretend like that behavior doesn't happen ALL THE TIME. but I wouldn't say "almost everyone" as opposed to "a select, vocal few." I mean shit if I took Chambered seriously every time he came into the Women - Public Strain thread just to talk about how mediocre the album was I'd have stopped being Sputbros with him. (lol) Then I couldn't do fun shit like say "Cccccchhhhhhaaammmmbbeeerrrrreeeddddd" all disappointed like.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	then again maybe I just ignore yall so much I just don't notice it anymore : \|
Wolfhorde 05.01.11	Of course most of the time it's not serious or should at least not be taken seriously. But that also means almost any kind of "civilized" discussion about music is not possible.
alachlahol 05.01.11	you guys are talking about elitism like you know what it is
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	OBV I'M NO ELITIST OR ANYTHING ALA WTF.
R6Rider 05.01.11	amen conrad
alachlahol 05.01.11	still waiting for an elite person to post in this thread
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	"But that also means almost any kind of "civilized" discussion about music is not possible." again a bit overzealous. Assuming that the only conversation that can be had is smarmy arguments about opinion. You and I are having a "civilized" discussion about music right now. Or at least I'm not attempting to be disrespectful : )
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	FUCK YOU ALA I AM LEETZ YOU PUNK.
alachlahol 05.01.11	hold on going to read this
Wolfhorde 05.01.11	"again a bit overzealous. Assuming that the only conversation that can be had is smarmy arguments about opinion. You and I are having a "civilized" discussion about music right now. Or at least I'm not attempting to be disrespectful : )" Not saying that, one can of course try to discuss objectively but it's not rare that it becomes the "fanboyism" or "elitism" mentioned in this list. I'm just saying it's not the norm.
FatChickIrl 05.01.11	im the best elite
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	fair enough wolfhorde. I basically agree with you there.
robertsona 05.01.11	gonan READ THIS
alachlahol 05.01.11	alright fuck this
BirdlikeSymmetry 05.01.11	This was beautifully written.
alachlahol 05.01.11	hahaha i could right a LOT better
Ire 05.01.11	fuckin' elitists yall gettin' me pissed
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	well you'd have fucked up already ala by not WRITING anything to begin with.
Relinquished 05.01.11	the world needs elitism fact
Ire 05.01.11	shut up fag
Ire 05.01.11	i didnt mean it
dannyboy898 05.01.11	From what I understand, ''fuck elitism'', as used by conrad, means that something mainstream is not necessarily shit for the masses, and I wholeheartedly agree. Mainstream music can be good or bad, and the same goes for technical or elitist music. I find it is often a question of circumstance. On my own time, I listen to more technical, more meaningful, less accessible stuff, whereas when I'm with my friends at a party or a club, the music takes on a whole new purpose, which is to mellow out and have mindless fun. Basically, keep an open mind and learn to love it for what it's worth in the context; it makes life so much more beautiful. Just my two cents.
conradtao 05.01.11	Reading this now is like the worst morning-after feeling ever. I just can't seem to stop second-guessing my own intentions as a listener. Which is weird, because I never feel that way as a musician.
klap 05.01.11	so that britney spears album
conradtao 05.01.11	It's terrible. I never listen to it. But I know all the words.
klap 05.01.11	what an elitist comment
conradtao 05.01.11	Damn it, Rudy.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	Rudy Klaps Elitist since birth.
AggravatedYeti 05.01.11	oh and I think Dannyboy put it perfectly.
conradtao 05.01.11	I agree with DannyBoy as well. One of the reasons I wrote this was the realisation that I was out dancing to shit I not only didn't listen to, but outright hated, without any problem. Which got me thinking, and this is what you get from that.
Colliiiin 05.01.11	"all while I couldn't give less of a fuck about "artistic integrity" because it's a meaningless term." Yeah I dont know buckoo.
JoeEspionage 05.01.11	Bravo, well put.
FearThyEvil 05.01.11	Very well put.
conradtao 05.02.11	Does anybody actually find sonic funny That's like finding Jeff Dunham funny
Crysis 05.02.11	Holy fuck finally someone agrees with me that Jeff Dunham is probably the least funny person in the world.
conradtao 05.02.11	That's presumptuous, but whatever impression you get of me as a person from this is probably pretty accurate.
BirdlikeSymmetry 05.02.11	Shit just got real serious.
conradtao 05.02.11	Yeah, well, you're right. Guess you can pat yourself on the back.
Knott- 05.02.11	sonic you're a fucking idiot
conradtao 05.02.11	As if flinging out "faggot" as a pejorative isn't pretty indicative of your so-called approach already. You actually ARE funny. Who would have thought it?
SeaAnemone 05.02.11	not sure how I feel about this conrad just read it a second time... I mean it just kinda hits as like "well yeah, duh" to be honest, but I mean on the other hand I agree.
conradtao 05.02.11	I'm pretty sure that most people agree with this! I wrote this - as with many of my recent reviews - on a plane, and that alienated atmosphere may have something to do with its slightly overzealous/accusatory tone.
BirdlikeSymmetry 05.02.11	Indeed Xeno.
Enotron 05.02.11	list is too serious!
Enotron 05.02.11	i cant tell if yer smoking too much dour or not enough!
conradtao 05.02.11	See, that's the worst attitude you can have - dismiss any attempts at starting an interesting conversation as being superfluous language. That's a weak refusal to (A) think about what I'm trying to say or (B) give any explanation for your comments aside from "you're a fucking faggot".
conradtao 05.02.11	That said, your list made me laugh. But I'm sure you'll consider that a condescending reaction.
Enotron 05.02.11	@conrad: on a more serious note, you should probably stop taking sonic's comments to heart
conradtao 05.02.11	You're probably right, Eno, but I don't really mind. I actually think it's interesting to take sonic seriously. "but you can be interesting without trying to sound like a fucking philosopher" Really, now? Because last time I checked, my writing isn't particularly verbose, nor is it all that thought-provoking. You seem to be taking issue with the style in which I write, which is fair, but "trying to sound like a fucking philosopher" is, once again, presumptuous. Then again, you have a tendency to be right on the mark with your inferences. Why don't you go ahead and make another guess?
mothercountry 05.02.11	I like the writeup in 6. The rest of it, meh. 'I hate Ke$ha on principle'. Come back to the dark side, dude.
conradtao 05.02.11	I can't imagine anyone disliking "Blow", to be quite honest..
klap 05.02.11	i like blow too
mothercountry 05.02.11	Interesting you say that, my brother has bumped that in his car for the last week. I just try to tune it out. I'm really sour on 'mainstream'. Which I think is what this list is getting at, whatever.
JesusChris 05.02.11	i fucking LOVE blow.
conradtao 05.02.11	"I'm really sour on 'mainstream'. Which I think is what this list is getting at, whatever." To a certain degree. I think I'm just a bit more frustrated with our tendency to create backlash. Why can't we appreciate music, or, dare I say, art, for what it is? Nobody's obliged to like everything. By that same token, it seems a tad bit unfair to be predisposed to dislike "mainstream" work.
klap 05.02.11	boom xeno ends the thread
conradtao 05.02.11	HA. Brilliant, Elijah.
Spec 05.02.11	And boom goes the dynamite.
Awesomesauce 05.02.11	Interesting rant. I would buy you a beer and subscribe to your newsletter. "elitism is the cancer that is killing music communities" Dumbest comment I've read on here since the the hilarity of the Sum41 thread.
conradtao 05.02.11	It had better be Stella.
Awesomesauce 05.02.11	Planning on a little 'attitude adjustment' of the missus, eh?
conradtao 05.02.11	No. Stella Artois is just fucking good beer.
Awesomesauce 05.02.11	I guess if you're into beating the shit out of your life partner, there's no substitute.
klap 05.02.11	ah conrad the blissful ignorance of youth
RedSky 05.02.11	Pop's built around catchy, simple and overly repetitive melodies that drill into your brain. Listening to that with your mates in a club with deep pumping base you've got pretty much the best musical brainwashing concoction right there.
Wizard 05.02.11	But elitism is the only way to listen to great music?
omnipanzer 05.02.11	I was amused ;^)
Baphomet 05.02.11	Elitism gets me laid. So, yeah, fuck you.
conradtao 05.02.11	One person's "musical brainwashing" is another person's drug.
alachlahol 05.02.11	dude who the fuck uses trendy commodity way too often in everyday speech how elite are you trying to be
RedSky 05.02.11	Nah but what I mean is you're not enjoying it on its merits, you could swap any of those acts with insert recent trendy pop band here and the effect would be the same. The music isn't the drug it's the atmosphere.
MO 05.02.11	Pop's built around catchy, simple and overly repetitive melodies that drill into your brain. Listening to that with your mates in a club with deep pumping base you've got pretty much the best musical brainwashing concoction right there." This big time. I think what pisses me off about mainstream is the fact that the artists simply rehash a simple formula that works and they don't really need to put forth too much effort. That being said any genre can be seen as rehashing a sound or idea, but at least there's some complexity and actual musicmanship involved. There's so much autotune in vocals now and electronically produced beats it's sickening...and these people are making millions basically because they were able to release a catchy song which get's people who want a simple beat wet in the pants. I have alot more respect for metal, indie and underground artists who pour their heart and soul into their music and have the ability to perform some of the hardest stuff consistently ever night/show. Like Dannyboy said you have to take the music for what it's worth in it's context. All this mainstream music adds to the atmosphere in the club scene, which is fine, but I just find it repetitive bullshit. I'll take a five-piece band who plays instruments any day.
conradtao 05.02.11	"There's so much autotune in vocals now and electronically produced beats it's sickening...and these people are making millions basically because they were able to release a catchy song which get's people who want a simple beat wet in the pants." Try writing a catchy tune and let me know if you still think it doesn't have effort. Which isn't to say that pop isn't derivative - it is, often blatantly. I'm not "defending" pop (it sells well enough to not really need defending) so much as defending the people who work, often very hard, to make the music. I think we run the risk of completely dismissing their efforts by disregarding "mainstream music", and we trivialize their work by saying it's just a rehash of old ideas.
MO 05.02.11	Heh, I knew that would be the sentence causing guff. I agree it takes effort, but not nearly as much as it takes for say a more obscure type of music. It just seems they take advantage of a simple formula. Example: how long do you think it took to write the song Friday? I know it's a bad example since everyone hates it, but I have a feeling not long at all. All I'm getting at is the fact I have more respect for musicians who play physical instruments and who just manage to get by through their song writing. I find they do it more for the music and release material that has more substance and heart. It's just hits me stronger as a listener, as well as a musician so I relate to that.
conradtao 05.02.11	I think I understand that. I disagree, though. Saying that one type of music always takes more effort than another strikes me as, for lack of a better word, presumptuous.
conradtao 05.02.11	All the more reason for me to not be one.
MO 05.02.11	Fair enough. I don't know the in's and out's of that form of music and what it takes to record one of the their songs. It's definitely more of a suspicion since 99% of pop music, to me, sounds the same.
conradtao 05.02.11	Nah, I can't stand philosophy majors.
NOTINTHEFACE 05.02.11	I'ms completely with metallicOpeth on this one. Pop music, with a few exceptions, is completely derivative. The thing that separates it from other forms of music is that it KNOWS it's derivative and it doesn't CARE, as long as people buy it. It's taking this wonderful art form, reducing it to a simple formula, and mass producing it. I sound like a complete hippie right now, but that to me is the worst kind of artistic defacement. I can understand enjoying pop for the mood and familiarity it produces, but isn't music, like all art, supposed to be about exploration? What good is music if you're simply trying to recreate the same feeling in a slightly different way, both as an artist and as a listener?
PaperTigers 05.02.11	Some people appreciate artistic exploration that changes the way they think, and some people just like something that makes them move their feet or feel good without having to think about it. Expecting everyone else to appreciate music for the same reasons you do, especially if you believe that music that satisfies your expectations is intrinsically better than other types, is extremely egotistical and, well, elitist. Great writing, by the way Conrad.
toxin. 05.03.11	Heh, I think of this nearly every time I read a review. For example, consider the terms persistent and stubborn. They mean the same thing yet have different connotations. And unfortunately, people (read: elitists) tend to label "good" music with a positively connotated word and "bad" music with negatively connotated words, even if they're the same. For example, a "bad" band that tries hard may be labeled as presumptuous whilst a "good" band that tries just as hard will be labeled ambitious, based not on the merits of the music/album itself but on the reputation of the artist.
liledman 05.03.11	"All I'm getting at is the fact I have more respect for musicians who play physical instruments" walking a fine line there. the judgement should be based on their musicianship and creative output. for instance, i respect flying lotus a hell of a lot more than i respect angus young. heaping everybody who uses computers and electronic means into one basket, and everybody who uses 'physical instruments' into the other in terms of worth is just ignorant.
Jash 05.03.11	A very good read man, now hurry up and make staff so you I can read more!
Ire 05.03.11	i want to fuck elitism
acorncheese 05.03.11	what that's my son's name wtf ayur
Deviant. 05.03.11	"I think what pisses me off about mainstream is the fact that the artists simply rehash a simple formula that works and they don't really need to put forth too much effort. That being said any genre can be seen as rehashing a sound or idea, but at least there's some complexity and actual musicmanship involved. There's so much autotune in vocals now and electronically produced beats it's sickening...and these people are making millions basically because they were able to release a catchy song which get's people who want a simple beat wet in the pants. I have alot more respect for metal, indie and underground artists who pour their heart and soul into their music and have the ability to perform some of the hardest stuff consistently ever night/show." Yeah I get this and all, but every artist in every music scene in existence is writing to appease fans of said genre. You can argue that "metal" has more artistic merit than say pop music you'll hear on the radio (i'm not quite sure where this pop=club music thing is coming from though), but that's only ever going to be based on your love for metal. Which is again fine, but comparing genres like that when those artists are blatantly working towards different things is a little stupid
Emim 05.04.11	Seems more like sexism to me.
aok 11.19.14	bumpd. cus
Alkemest 11.19.14	What? lol a pretentious analysis about how music critics are pretentious? Sounds about right. I get what you're saying though, I think, sort of. I tend to dislike writing negative reviews if I can help it. Even my Florida Georgia Line album I tried to not crucify it as hard as I wanted to. It's not my cup of tea, it's a shitty tea, but lots of people like it and at the end of the day what else is music for other than to be enjoyed? I'd rather just stick with largely reviewing albums that I enjoy anyway.
aok 11.19.14	calculated catharsis ~ batshit delicious.
ChoccyPhilly 11.19.14	I just remind myself that everything is my opinion
bach 11.19.14	i like to remind myself that i'm better than literally everyone else.
aok 11.21.14	yea bach's the best. agreed
zakalwe 11.21.14	Lets not be disgusted by what anything represents. Let's take everything at face value, look at things objectively and appreciate. Let's all have mechanical thoughts, lives and a well oiled soul. Let's not be human, it doesn't work.
deathschool 11.21.14	That's some scary shit, zak
someguest 11.21.14	Having standards =/= elitism
deathschool 11.21.14	someguest = Elitism, agreed
someguest 11.21.14	aww stop it I blush really easily
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	Good list. Thinking you're an elitist because of what music you listen to is idiotic. You didn't make the art, you just appreciate it. You'd have to have no actual accomplishments to bother feeling like a superior person because of your "taste." This applies to literally types of art. Now if you actually MAKE art and feel you're better than others because of it, that's at least reasonable even if it's still pretentious and annoying.
someguest 11.21.14	"Thinking you're an elitist because of what music you listen to is idiotic. You didn't make the art, you just appreciate it. You'd have to have no actual accomplishments to bother feeling like a superior person because of your "taste." This applies to literally types of art." wrong you are weak and stupid if you listen to top 40
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	A heart surgeon who loves Rihanna's radio hits is better than some underground music fanatic fuckup who lives in his mom's basement. I probably just insulted a bunch of Sputnik members with the second half of that sentence lol.
Intothepit 11.21.14	If the fuck up listens to Shai Hulud, then the heart surgeon can go to hell.
someguest 11.21.14	"A heart surgeon who loves Rihanna's radio hits is better than some underground music fanatic fuckup who lives in his mom's basement." How do you figure? Maybe the person they're saving is one of these basement people you speak of. Or maybe that heart surgeon is secretly a serial killer. Don't buy into the whole "I do this for a living so kiss my feet!" schtick. The only way someone gets there is a through a lot of ass kissing and enough political correctness to make even the friendliest politician sick to their stomach.
Intothepit 11.21.14	I know several people who have college degrees and great careers who are giant wastes of space, so I don't know what you're trying to prove with that statement, Ars.
deathschool 11.21.14	Comment about popcorn
someguest 11.21.14	I'm curious what Ars thinks of when he considers the word 'fuckup'. Someone who doesn't get all As and Bs?
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	someguest, you're missing the point. My argument is that having a taste in art (of any medium) that's supposedly great is barely an accomplishment since it does absolutely nothing for society. And that bragging about it is probably a compensation for the lack of actual accomplishments. Your music taste could be shit, it could be amazing, but that's irrelevant when it comes to your worth as a person. Therefore being a music elitist only makes sense if you actually MAKE music, because that's an actual accomplishment. @Pit: When did I say that having a degree means you're automatically a productive member of society? Also, I'm sure none of those "wastes of space" you know are surgeons.
Intothepit 11.21.14	To be a surgeon, you need a degree, you fucking dunce. And yes, I did. My grandfather was a heart surgeon and he's the biggest, most ignorant piece of shit imaginable, so ssshhhhhhhh.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"I'm curious what Ars thinks of when he considers the word 'fuckup'. Someone who doesn't get all As and Bs?" Someone who lives off of welfare and doesn't search for a job when they're physically able to. Honestly, getting a ton of Cs isn't great, but hey at least they're probably trying.
someguest 11.21.14	"My argument is that having a taste in art (of any medium) that's supposedly great is barely an accomplishment since it does absolutely nothing for society." Meh. Most of these people aren't worth any contribution. This is a weak argument. "And that bragging about it is probably a compensation for the lack of actual accomplishments." I'm on here because I'm bored and it's fun. I don't talk about my personal life most of the time because it's not relevant in this realm of discussion. "Your music taste could be shit, it could be amazing, but that's irrelevant when it comes to your worth as a person." Again, most people are turds. I'm not buying this one. "Therefore being a music elitist only makes sense if you actually MAKE music, because that's an actual accomplishment." Right there with reading that post. Wow. Someone carve may name into some mortar for getting through that one.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"To be a surgeon, you need a degree, you fucking dunce." Yes, but not all degrees are created equal. Also, you really don't need to throw in insults, they don't make you look more right. They don't really make you look less right either, but it adds tension to an otherwise tensionless conversation. "My grandfather was a heart surgeon and he's the biggest, most ignorant piece of shit imaginable, so ssshhhhhhhh." I'm sure he saved many lives though.
someguest 11.21.14	"I'm sure he saved many lives though." Lives of assholes.
Wolfhorde 11.21.14	" to your worth as a person" Inaccurate terminology. Maybe a person's worth to society, but not a person's "worth" per se as that's an asinine concept to begin with.
Pajolero 11.21.14	I say fuck everything. Care less, it feels good.
deathschool 11.21.14	We're all worthy in the eyes of Jesus, friends
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	Also, someguest, I'm not talking about you since you don't come off as someone who thinks they're an elitist, so I have no idea why you're taking this so personally. But there are people on here who literally think they're better people because of having a supposedly "enlightened" taste and I find that kind of pathetic.
Intothepit 11.21.14	I'm throwing in insults because you are a fucking dunce, plain and simple. Yes he saved Lives, but I also know for a fact that he did it purely for money. Your point also ignores the fact that he beat and molested his children, and embezzled money from the hospital he worked at. Your point is flawed.
someguest 11.21.14	"We're all worthy in the eyes of Jesus, friends" Hey guys let's go out to the Dead Sea. The beach is wonderful. Don't open your mouth when swimming! "Also, someguest, I'm not talking about you since you don't come off as someone who thinks they're an elitist, so I have no idea why you're taking this so personally. " We're having a discussion. I'm challenging your opinions. I favor no one.
Wolfhorde 11.21.14	"But there are people on here who literally think they're better people because of having a supposedly "enlightened" taste and I find that kind of pathetic." I would agree with that sentiment but what does it matter? People can think whatever the fuck they want and there's more bullshit inside certain demographic's heads than anybody could ever care for. (particularly in the U.S.)
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"Your point also ignores the fact that he beat and molested his children, and embezzled money from the hospital he worked at. Your point is flawed." My point missed this because you didn't tell me that. Did you expect me to know this by a way of magic?
someguest 11.21.14	He shouldn't have had to tell you. Surgeons are not gods. They are assholes like the rest of us. He probably became a surgeon just because of the slimy bugger he really knew he was. This is how reality works.
Intothepit 11.21.14	It doesn't matter whether you knew it or not, because your whole argument is based on the assumption that all "surgeons" are great people because they save lives. Your whole point is based off assumptions.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"People can think whatever the fuck they want" Of course they can, and for that reason I can think that music taste elitists are pathetic.
Artuma 11.21.14	what wolfhorde said
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"your whole argument is based on the assumption that all "surgeons" are great people because they save lives. Your whole point is based off assumptions." Actually the heart surgeon part was more of a minor example. My main point had to do with someone's taste in art not being an accomplishment worth bragging about.
someguest 11.21.14	"what wolfhorde said" Whoa whoa buddy easy on the verbiage.
Wolfhorde 11.21.14	Dear Old Ones, let tentacles of logic (or demise) grasp through the earth and inside the heads of men.
Intothepit 11.21.14	By your logic, ars, you're not acting any better than a music elitist in this thread. Your elitism comes out in different areas, so why are you any better than the music elitist?
BlacKapes 11.21.14	i'm better than all of you and any human being. i'm a god and my taste in music reflects that.
someguest 11.21.14	Ars would be out in the streets of Pakistan rallying for women's right to drive only to be the first one to throw a stone through the windshield of said driver once the law passed.
Intothepit 11.21.14	Dude, ars wouldn't be caught within 10 feet of a woman. Your argument is invalid.
someguest 11.21.14	I hope he can throw a rock more than 10 feet.
Intothepit 11.21.14	He's a silly nanny, so I highly doubt it. Tom Cruise probably has a better arm than him.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	I'm a bit too peaceful of a person to violently throw stones tbh. "Dude, ars wouldn't be caught within 10 feet of a woman. Your argument is invalid." Is that a gay joke or something?
someguest 11.21.14	http://fashionfetishism.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/the_nanny_060809_g3.jpg
Intothepit 11.21.14	It certainly wasn't a straight joke.
someguest 11.21.14	"I'm a bit too peaceful of a person to violently throw stones tbh." The point being you can't have it both ways.
someguest 11.21.14	Classic pit. It's like it's still 2009. How many people have left this web site because of the two of us? 100s?
Intothepit 11.21.14	Dude, at least. I don't know why. Deep down, we are two genuinely nice guys.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"The point being you can't have it both ways." I mean I value freedom of speech, but what's so bad about criticizing how some people use it? For instance I support someone's freedom to protest gay marriage, but I'm still going to criticize them for protesting it. "Nah, he only wants it one way, and that way is through the back door." I'm also perfectly fine with going into other people's backdoors.
Artuma 11.21.14	"My main point had to do with someone's taste in art not being an accomplishment worth bragging about." and you made it a 100 comment issue, congrats.
someguest 11.21.14	It's the cause of this tough outer shell. We've both been burned to the third degree.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"How many people have left this web site because of the two of us? 100s?" Honestly, I like you guys. You actually discuss things without resorting to the whole "I'm right because I said so" tactic that so many users on here do, even if Pit REALLY likes his ad hominems.
Intothepit 11.21.14	Yeah, but do people even know you're coming into their back door? You're so small and quiet.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"You're so small and quiet." Define small.
someguest 11.21.14	"You actually discuss things without resorting to the whole "I'm right because I said so" tactic that so many users on here do" I let my family do all that for me.
Intothepit 11.21.14	For something to be xconsidered ad hominem, your argument has to have some logic or merit to it, otherwise my insults and attack on your character are justified. Your argument was based off assumptions and not facts, therefore nothing I said is what you claim it to be. And by small, I mean you have a small penis.
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	"And by small, I mean you have a small penis." lol what do you consider small?
Intothepit 11.21.14	And for future reference, you can't pluralize an adjective. Ad hominem is a descriptor, not a noun. If you're going to try and seem more intelligent than you actually are, at least know the proper usage of the word.
BlacKapes 11.21.14	i'm about to ad hominem
Intothepit 11.21.14	I'm gonna ad hominem all over your face.
BlacKapes 11.21.14	ars is being so ad hominemly
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	Meh.
ShadowRemains 11.21.14	jesus christ
ArsMoriendi 11.21.14	the prophet mohammad