BallsToTheWall: Bosh And Wade Commit To Miami

Inveigh 07.07.10	I'm confused as to how LeBron's still a possibility... you think he's going to play for $10 mil per season while D-Wade and Bosh are making $17 mil? Doubt it. Either way, fuck D-Wade. He said he would've gone to Chicago to be with his kids if Bosh hadn't convinced him to stay in Miami. I hope that bitch has a career-ending injury with the quickness. Also hope his wife gets custody of the kids -- have fun paying that Florida child support at 30% of your salary! Yeah, I'm bitter, wannafightaboutit?
ChucklesSupreme 07.07.10	I'm a big Heat fan since i grew up in Miami. This made me very happy. :)
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	I don't know how it's still possible or how Riley would even want lebron with such a depleted roster, Miami needs a legitimate fucking lineup. Get that white guy from the Knicks and maybe Ray Allen.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Also, here's to Lebron going to Chicago and not ending up empty in the offseason.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Sorry Balls. I think we made our lists at the same time
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Probaly. Either way, this turn of events could be great or it could be terrible for the team. With Riley, I don't expect a complete meltdown as long as he fill's out the team;s need for a balanced lineup.
klap 07.07.10	only bosh and wade plus a bunch of leftovers isn't going to win a title.
klap 07.07.10	if you guys land like haywood or something then i'll be worried
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	The Lakers don't have 2 20+ PPG guys, though. They have Kobe and a bunch of 15 PPG, which i'm not saying is a bad thing. Balls- You gotta remember that with these two pieces in place, more will come. People who want to win will join the Big 2 down here.
Satellite 07.07.10	I'm so glad the Pistons spent all their money on Gordon and Villinueva last summer. Really worked out well, and who needs LeBron, Wade, Amare, or Bosh anyway?
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Klap- Think about it. If two of the top three free agents join one team, do you not think others will follow them?
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Dont want to give up Beasely. Wtf
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Yeah, if Lebron doesn't follow them to Miami(most likely he won't), then I want to keep Beasely. He might thrive in this situation, because they won't be paying as much attention to him.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	I have his jersey so it will suck especially since I still carry my Julius Peppers jersey despite that fucking douche going to Chicago.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Lol, I have a Wade jersey. That would have REALLY sucked if he went to Chicago. I'd have to burn it.
Inveigh 07.07.10	one thing this entire process has taught me is that NBA players say they care about winning, but honestly only care about money. Which is why I'm not sure how many good players will be following Wade and Bosh to Miami after that cap space is gone. Still, you only play 5 guys at a time in the NBA, and the Heat have two of the top 7 or 8 offensive players in the NBA right now. Those two plus a bunch of D-Leaguers will win at least 45 games.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	I;m hoping to get David Lee and keep Chalmers/Beasley.
klap 07.07.10	yeah, im not sure what you're talking about this influx of players who are suddenly going to want to take pay cuts to play with bosh and wade....i don't really see the lakers overflowing with people who want to take the minimum to play with kobe and pau
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Apparently you aren't on the up and up, Blake. Wade's taking a pay cut, Bosh is thinking about taking a pay cut, and they still would have over 10 million in cap space. That's plenty to bring in more solid players. Also, even though Beasely hasn't panned out to be what we all hoped, he still gives 15 and 7 a game.
BigHans 07.07.10	They should get Shaq back just to be a big body/thug for Bosh around the rim.
Inveigh 07.07.10	as it currently stands, the Heat have about $9.5 mil of cap room, which won't be enough to sign anybody remotely major, except maybe Ray Allen. David Lee will get his max somewhere, there's too many teams left with space (Knicks, Bulls, Nets, Clippers). His max starts at $13.5 mil per season, based on his 4 years of experience. Boozer's max is at $17 mil per season, but he likely won't get quite that. Still, neither of those guys is going to the Heat unless they're able to trade Chalmers AND Beasley in a sign and trade.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Klap- I didn't say anything about an influx of players wanting to take a pay cut. That came out of your mouth. All I said was that with these two guys, it's attractive to other solid players out there to come here and win a title or two.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	No he wore out his welcome here. Fuck that fat tub of lard.
Inveigh 07.07.10	I will be shocked if Bosh takes a pay cut, seeing as how getting a S&T for that extra year and cash has been his biggest sticking point all along.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Lol, why would we want Lee or Boozer? They play Bosh's position, and Bosh has said he is a PF. Do you think he'd go to the Heat if Reily wasn't going to use him that way???
BigHans 07.07.10	I wont feel sorry for Bosh if he doesnt get his sign and trade, but in his shoes, it is like an extra 30 million clams.
Inveigh 07.07.10	I was responding to this comment from Balls: "I;m hoping to get David Lee and keep Chalmers/Beasley."
klap 07.07.10	unless you're talking about jason williams i'm not sure what solid players are going to want to come play for that much of a reduced pay
Inveigh 07.07.10	also, who's going to play center for the Heat?
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Exactly.
BigHans 07.07.10	Thats why I said they should get Shaq. They need an enforcer/thug in the middle as Bosh is more of a finesse guy, and at this point Shaq would be pretty well suited for that.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	If they give up Beasely and Chalmers in the sign-and-trade, that means they expect Lebron to be coming down here.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	After the things Shaq said on his way out, no, fuck that guy.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I wouldn't be opposed to Brendan Haywood coming down here and being the big man
BigHans 07.07.10	Even with these two, the Heat need two things to go anywhere: 1. Some type of tough presence in the middle. 2. A great outside shooter like a Ray Allen.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	It's also funny that people always, always forget about who is running the show for this team. Reily is a legend, he's won multiple rings, and he knows how to work in the front office. Isn't it obvious that this guy has a plan? He's not going to just go with Bosh and Wade. More will come
BigHans 07.07.10	Pit you are really going to rue the day you left Florida if the Heat and the U amp it up this year arent you.
Inveigh 07.07.10	your only shot at Brendan Haywood is to use the remaining cap space on him. If you're hoping to trade Beasley and Chalmers to get LeBron, there's no way you're getting Haywood. He made close to $10 mil last season, he's not playing for $440,000 next year (which is what the Heat will have to pay the remaining 8-11 players on their roster after they use their cap space)
BigHans 07.07.10	Inveigh are you playing with the ESPN trade machine?
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Hans- Yeah, and if you add in the Dolphins, I might just do wut RosaParks wanted me to do last night.
BigHans 07.07.10	Which is what?
Inveigh 07.07.10	lol no, not the Trade Machine. I just spend almost as much time on a Bulls blog as I do here, therefore I've become a salary cap expert over the past year. The guys on that blog are intense, fucking salary cap and statistical geniuses.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I'm not hoping to get Lebron, actually. I'd prefer we didn't and save the money to get some other parts. I'd think that would be the smartest move. You gotta remember this, too: The Big 3 went to Boston and IMMEDIATELY made that team a contender with a bunch of youngsters and minimum-contract players. They won a title the first year they were all there. Who says the Heat can't do the same thing? Granted, my fanboyism is coming out to the -enth degree, but I do realize that this could blow up and be nothing. However, I laugh at all the people who just lost the Bosh sweepstakes who are saying, "What else can you guys do?," when really you're just saying, "Shit, my team hasn't done ANYTHING!"
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	BREAKING NEWS: The Texas Rangers have just traded OF Josh Hamilton to the Florida Marlins for Anibal Sanchez and Cody Ross. In other news, team owner Jeffery Loria was found dead.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	RosaParks exact quote: "Nobody really cares what you're saying anymore. You're a problem this site has had for too long now. And I wasn't trying to be funny. I seriously think everyone would be better off if you died. And if you died tomorrow I would have such a large grin on my face you can't imagine" Fucked up, isn't it?
Inveigh 07.07.10	^wow, that's nasty... but Pit, Boston had a much better roster in place when they got the Big 3. Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House and James Posey were already on the team. I'd take those 4 over Chalmers and Beasley any day. Not saying the Heat won't be awesome next year no matter who they add, because they will, but their supporting cast isn't as good as Boston's was. However: Wade + Bosh + $10 mil cap space > The Big 3
YouAreMySilence 07.07.10	The Road has to be my favourite movie of all time.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I know, but Eddie House and James Posey were minimum-salary players, Rondo and Perkins had basically just entered the league. I don't understand your argument, because it basically just supported my point. And yeah, Wade+Bosh+$10 mi>>>>>>The Big 3
BigHans 07.07.10	Balls, I have Hamilton on my fantasy team, dont fucking scare me like that.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Yeah, the ending was really deep. Need to read the bok as well as The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Supposed to be a real fucked up movie but excellent nonetheless.
BigHans 07.07.10	RosaParks sounds like a real class act.
Inveigh 07.07.10	Posey wasn't a minimum salaried player... he was making like $6 million per year. Rondo and Perkins were both highly touted first round picks. I guess Beasley fits that description, but he's been way more of a disappointment than either of those guys had to that point.
klap 07.07.10	i'm a magic fan so obviously i have a vested interest in seeing the heat fail miserably. Bosh's torn ACL for MVP!
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Breaking News from ESPN: Lebron James has used a bathroom in Akron, Ohio and says he feels much better!
BigHans 07.07.10	Lets say hypothetically Lebron goes to the Knicks. Throwing out supporting cast, what is the better combo? Amare/Lebron Or Bosh/Wade
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Perkins Stats 2007-2008(first year with Big 3)- 6.9 PPG 6.1 RPG 1.5 BPG Not much Rondo Stats 2007-2008-
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Sorry, hit submit by accident Rondo 2007-2008 stats: 10.6 PPG 4.2 RPG 5.1 APG Not much again.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Bosh/Wade Reason why is Player Effieciency ratings over the past 3 years, Amar'e's micro facture surgery, Amar'e doesn't play defense and doesn't rebound for his size. Although Lebron is the best player, it's a combination of a great player and a pretty good player. Bosh/Wade is a combination of two great players, arguably the two best at their positions
Inveigh 07.07.10	per game stats are really bad indicators of a player's ability, they don't take into account the pace his team plays at, how many minutes he played, how many possessions he used, how many shots he took, what kind of man-to-man defense or team defense he plays and certainly don't account for the quality of players around him. Adjusted plus-minus, win-share, Player Efficiency Rating and even per 36 stats are much better for player evaluation. also, great article from Adrain Wojnarowksi (excellent NBA columnist) about "The Decision": http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebrondecision070710
BigHans 07.07.10	I agree Pit, I think Amare is a douche.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Perkins was the 27th pick in his draft, Rondo the 21st. That's far from being "highly-touted."
Inveigh 07.07.10	I don't know why everyone says Bosh is far and away better than Amare or Boozer. they put up very similar numbers and Bosh had at least close to as good of a supporting cast, but he couldn't take his team to the playoffs the last two years.. Bosh had a 25.0 PER on a 38 win team, Stoudemire had a 22.6 PER on a 55 win team -- what's more impressive?
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	The Big 3 also didn't have someone who could completely take over the game(don't give me that Paul Pierce could, because that's bullshit). The Heat did, and still do. The man won a ring ON HIS OWN. Shaq may have been that low-post presence, but he wasn't adding anything in that series. ANYTHING.
Inveigh 07.07.10	being the 27th pick in the draft straight out of high school is pretty highly touted.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself? I thought per game stats are really bad indicators of a player's ability?
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Bosh also didn't have Steve Nash to feed him the ball
BigHans 07.07.10	I think Pit has an understandalbe hard on for Bosh all of a sudden. It is exciting when your team gets a superstar. Unless you're talking about me when the Cowboys signed TO.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Listen, to be honest, I know that adding these two guys to our minimalist roster doesn't necessarily mean title. You also have to understand that up until Brandon Marshall signed with the Dolphins, Miami has been stabbed in the heart over and over and over again by it's sports personalities. We finally have some hope.
youresocute 07.07.10	wuts basketball?
Inveigh 07.07.10	he also didn't have to share the ball with Jason Richardson, Steve Nash (who still shoots quite a bit), Joe Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, Quentin Richardson, Leandro Barbosa, Grant Hill etc. Bosh was surrounded by GREAT supporting-type players who don't demand shots: Jose Calderon, Hedo Turkoglu (ok, maybe he wasn't great in TOR lol), Andre Bargnani, Shawn Marion, TJ Ford etc. Look, if given a choice straight-up, obviously I choose Bosh. But I don't think he's so much better than Stoudemire to warrant saying Wade + Bosh is definitively better than LBJ + STAT
Inveigh 07.07.10	"Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself? I thought per game stats are really bad indicators of a player's ability?" lol, PER isn't a per game stat, it stands for Player Efficiency Rating.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	I have Hamilton on my fantasy team too, and Vlad Guerror but that would be ill.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Blake, you aren't mentioning micro-fracture surgery. It's something that needs to be maintanenced every 2-3 years(truist me, i've had the surgery). Stoudamire's knees aren't going to last that much longer. Look what happened to Greg Oden(not a player of Stoudamire's ability, but still the same injury). Plus, Jose Calderon IS NOT Steve Nash, Hedo wasn't that great in Toronto, Bargnani is okay, Marion was there for half a season before he went to Dallas, and TJ Ford is inconsistent and constantly injured.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I read it wrong, Blake, my bad. I thought you meant stats like PPG and BPG, not Player Effieciency Rating. My apologies.
Inveigh 07.07.10	yeah, can't argue about the surgery aspect, Bosh is definitely the better long-term option. I had temporarily forgotten STAT's injury issues. and like I said, Bosh is definitely the better player, but I don't think the difference is overwhelming, at least not for the next 2-3 years. If we're talking about injuries, also, Wade's body probably won't last more than 2-3 more years at his current athletic level. He's 3.5 years older than LeBron and has had a much worse injury history. The way he plays with reckless abandon (which is what I love about him btw) does not bode well for longevity.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Yeah, Wade's already 28, he'll be kicking the can very soon.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	The reason Wade plays like that is because he hasn't had any other option around him. Now he has a legitimate threat on the court with him.
Inveigh 07.07.10	he played like that when Shaq was with him...
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I've had a complete reconstruction on my left knee(torn ACL) and microfacture surgery on my right knee. My right knee is now the weaker out of the two. Granted, I'm not in the physical condition Amar'e is in, but it's still a valid comparison.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Lol, but Shaq was past his prime. Bosh is in the middle of it, or maybe hasn't even hit it yet.
Inveigh 07.07.10	Bosh just finished his 7th season, I think it's safe to say he's in his prime. and Shaq may have been a little past his prime there, but he was there for 3.5 seasons, and his first season (Wade's second in the league) he put up a PER of 27.0, which is one of his top 10 seasons. During their championship season, he had a PER of 24.4. Over his 3.5 seasons in Miami, his PER was 22.73, which is higher than Bosh's career PER. By comparison, Bosh put up his best single season PER this year, and it was 25.0.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	But once again, you said PER is not a good way of judging how good a player is. Yes, Shaq had some impact, but he was no where to be seen in the finals. He disappeared. That's when Wade began taking things into his own hands
Inveigh 07.07.10	lol, once again, PER stands for Player Efficiency Rating, it's not a per game stat. It's an advanced statistical metric, widely regarded as the best single statistic for measuring a player's value
Inveigh 07.07.10	PER: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Jesus Christ, I'm losing it. Sorry dude, I'm sick and I can't get my mind together. However, if we are going to say per game stats aren't really a good way of determining how good a player is, PER shouldn't be either, because a big part of PER is stats.
BigHans 07.07.10	I probably had a huge PER on my Sophmore b-ball team. Scored about 12 a game on usually at least 3 bombs from downtown. Yep.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	People are still also forgetting that the Heat look like they're going to re-sign Haslem for what looks to be 1.5 mil a year. That's a pretty damn good bench piece right there
Inveigh 07.07.10	I'd assume Haslem would be their starting center. He must love Miami, because he could get way more than that on the open market, he's a very servicable player. PER isn't measured using per game stats. For instance, Andrew Bynum has a higher PER than Brook Lopez, but Lopez averages more points and rebounds per game. It's because Lopez might need to use 12 possessions to get his 15 points, where as Bynum only needs 3 possessions to get his 10 points. Bynum shoots a better percentage also. You can take a bad player, put him on a bad team (meaning the other players are actually worse than him) and he can average 20 points per game. Put that same player on the Lakers and he'll average 8 points per game. That's why per game stats suck. It's like looking at a player in a vaccuum, with no context whatsoever.
BigHans 07.07.10	Like when Bobby Simmons used to average 18 a game on those shitty Bucks teams.
Inveigh 07.07.10	exactly. or how Stephon Marbury was able to average 20 ppg and 10 apg for most of his career.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Haslem and Wade are as close as teammates can get, and Haslem is from down here. Plus, you gotta remember that Florida doesn't have an income tax, so players make more down in Miami with the same contract they could get everywhere else. You could sign $1 mil/year deal in, say, NY, and make less than you could signing a $800,000/year deal down in Miami
klap 07.07.10	hey, orlando is in florida too :) and doesn't texas not have an income tax? i feel like i heard that somewhere. that or some other tax
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Texas does have an income tax, just not as rough as other states.
BigHans 07.07.10	Hey guys, I once made 87 out of 100 free throws in a fundraiser contest for my high school basketball team. Beat that, Bosh.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Breaking News! Lebron James called his mother, and said he loves her!
Inveigh 07.07.10	Boozer signs 5 year, $80 million contract with Bulls!!! Yearly salary starts at $13.8 million supposedly, with yearly raises. This leaves the Bulls enough cap space for ONE max contract still, and with only one MAX player left on the market... well, I won't get ahead of myself again..
BigHans 07.07.10	Lets hope the BOOZ stays healthy for you Inveigh.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	Hey, I hit .520 my freshman year of high school baseball. I wanna see Hamilton do that now!
Inveigh 07.07.10	I'm actually not all that excited about Boozer the player, but Boozer the bait for LBJ. A roster of Rose, Deng, Noah, Boozer and Taj Gibson is much more attractive than Stoudemire, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas. At least I think it is. I also think it's better than Mo Williams, Anderson Varajao and Antwan Jameson. Or Devin Harris, Brook Lopez and Derrick Favors. I guess we'll see how important winning really is to LeBron...
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	New York wants Lebron. Not really for this year, but for next year, when Carmelo isn't a Nugget anymore(he has stated he wants to play in NY). That team would be lethal
klap 07.07.10	oh chicago's always been the best environment for lebron to go to. anyone who wants to WIN would pull the trigger on that
Inveigh 07.07.10	I've never understood why people think LeBron would want to play with Melo... they play the same position! also, if New York signs LeBron they won't have cap space for Melo next summer. Eddy Curry's contract expires at $11 mil, and after adding all the minimum salaried players they'll need to fill out their roster this year, they won't have more than $7 mil of that left. Carmelo will get the max, and my guess is he re-signs with the Nuggets before summer of 2011 even gets here.
TheBaneofSputnik 07.07.10	I love the fans of Chicago(not being sarcastic in any way). They've been saying all along that if the King comes, he won't live in MJ's shadow. I guarantee you, though, that the minute they don't win a title or if they struggle, the first thing brought up in the press is a comparison to MJ. What superstar wants that? If he wants full freedom and to be the Icon he says he is(which I think is what he really wants) then he goes to NY.
BallsToTheWall 07.07.10	Resigning Haslem would be good.
Inveigh 07.08.10	"I guarantee you, though, that the minute they don't win a title or if they struggle, the first thing brought up in the press is a comparison to MJ." I guarantee that will happen no matter where he plays. Imagine if he joins Wade and Bosh in Miami? If he doesn't win a title there he'll be lambasted for all eternity. Think about Kobe -- he actually WON a title this year and the first thing that was said about him afterwards was a comparison to Jordan and how MJ would never have shot that poorly in a game 7. If you want to be the best player in the game (which LBJ says he does) you're going to have to deal with MJ comparisons no matter you play.