thebhoy: Avatar | Sputnikmusic

thebhoy 01.23.10	I've never really liked James Cameron anyways.
DiceMan 01.23.10	I felt the exact same way about Avatar.
March_Of_Sand 01.23.10	I agree on 10 about Swift being very good with satire. We just finished A Modest Proposal in my English class. As for Avatar, I have still haven't seen it.
thebhoy 01.23.10	It was fun for the first hour and a half, but then it steadily lost its appeal with me until the very end when I just wanted it to be finished. A Modest Proposal is fantastic, especially because nobody got it when it was first published.
tombits 01.23.10	Agreed, I'm sick of people fapping over the movie. Sure, it looks fucking great - in fact, at this point it's the most visually appealing film ever - but doesn't anyone care about the storyline anymore? Seriously, Pocahontas and Dances With Wolves literally have the EXACT SAME PLOT. Yet my gripe isn't about the generic story, it's the way it was presented. Cheesy scripts, cliche one liners... aghhh!
tombits 01.23.10	Also, Metamorphosis is a really, really interesting read.
thebhoy 01.23.10	I like Kafka's paragraph long sentences. Tombits have you seen The Hurt Locker? It's seriously amazing.
DiceMan 01.23.10	A Modest Proposal is a great satirical piece... Babies are tasty. Avatar was also very close to The Last Samurai, which was actually able to not remind me of a more painful version of Pocahontas. Book of Eli is a fucking fantastic movie if you haven't seen it already by the way.
ninjuice 01.23.10	Avatar is great. The Book of Eli is good. The Hurt Locker is madddddd overrated. They killed off the best actor in the first 10 minutes, and that's the smallest problem I have. James Cameron made the first two Terminator films and Aliens. Therefore, James Cameron >> you.
qwe3 01.23.10	OMG A JAMES CAMERON MOVIE HAD CLICHES AND LAME DIALOGUE?
tombits 01.23.10	^Just because it was expected doesn't make it any less shitty.
tombits 01.23.10	I don't think The Hurt Locker even showed in any of the cinemas around me, but from what I've read it sounds like a pretty amazing movie.
qwe3 01.23.10	i'm saying youre making too big of a fucking deal of the dialogue. he clearly wasnt focusing on dialogue or character development.
tombits 01.23.10	So he borrowed a storyline and purposely wrote a crappy script... what exactly did he do then? Again, the film's only redeeming factors were the visual effects and the voice acting.
Dryden 01.23.10	avatar looks dumb. never gonna watch it
qwe3 01.23.10	yeah because that's what i said
tombits 01.23.10	you were wowed by the flashy lights and big smurfs.
qwe3 01.23.10	don't be condescending dude you sound like an ass. he was trying to make an immersive, big budget action movie. and he did. the pacing was good, the music action and yes, even the story were good. note i didn't say original. he took a story that's been done before and told it in a really entertaining way. if you went into it expecting dialogue akin to tarantino or scorsese then i'm sorry you didn't get the great writing and deep characters that were so obviously going to be there from the trailer.
ThePalaceOfWisdom 01.23.10	Who wants to help me mine for unobtainium? I really dislike the film even for people who play up the visual aspect, I don't care, story telling is what's important in a film. That's why Psycho will always be better than any other slasher film.
qwe3 01.23.10	dude i can totally see people disliking the film, but complaining about the dialogue is stupid when we all knew it was going to be bad anyways
qwe3 01.23.10	meh i don't think so. same with titanic. i think everyone knew he wasnt gonna put much thinking into the dialogue. if it wins best picture i'll fucking kill someone though
tombits 01.23.10	"don't be condescending dude you sound like an ass." Wasn't really aimed at you man, just the shitty preteen public in general. Anyway... Justifying the lame aspects of a film by claiming author's intent is just a moot arguement. An "immersive, big budget action film" is pretty damn capable of a quality dialogue (yes, Tarantino) and it may well be that Cameron bought it down a couple of notches in aims of making an accessible, teen-orientated flick, but if that were so it was a stupid decision. Honestly, the film was good - not great, just good - and that's such a fucking shame considering its potential. "he took a story that's been done before and told it in a really entertaining way" Mmmmm, if you say so.
SeaAnemone 01.23.10	Johnathan Swift and Spoon for the win.
SeaAnemone 01.23.10	I mean Soulja Boy is great, right? People SAY that his lyrics and delivery is rubbish, but what would you expect, I mean c'mon? He wasn't TRYING to have great flow or lyrics, he was simply trying to make a buck off of some peoples' generic taste in music- and he succeeded.
qwe3 01.23.10	haha i didn't like inglorious basterds if that's what you were referring to. the decision he made is stupid from your point of view, but from others it isn't. he wanted the widest audience possible and i don't really blame him. he spent so much fucking money on the movie. honestly i didn't mind the cliches and the lines. it didn't detract from the experience a whole lot for me. I'm just saying there isn't any point complaining about the dialogue when all signs pointed towards it being lame.
qwe3 01.23.10	soulja boy is a pretty dumb analogy
theacademy 01.23.10	i don't think you understand the definition of "propaganda"
SeaAnemone 01.23.10	ok you're right you win
Titan50 01.23.10	I loved it
thebhoy 01.23.10	no, I understand the definition of propaganda. It was REALLY pushing a message of how bad white America and its military is, and the speech that Sully's avatar makes under that tree is meant to "mobilize" the audience just as much as the Na'vi. It reminded me a lot of Metropolis, just because it's fiction, doesn't mean it can't be propaganda. However, what I really meant to say last night was "pretty much ALMOST dwindled down to propaganda" And Qwe, my point was that clunky dialogue (for example, at least four times one of the marines said "come get some") is like putting down barriers in a road, it makes the film drag. Also, I mean unoriginal stories appear all the time, but this one literally just rips off from countless books and films, but it's wrapped up into a neat little package.
robertsona 01.23.10	avatar was fun but hurt locker stole the show this year tbh, def the best of the year
thebhoy 01.23.10	^ yep, and don't get me wrong, I did enjoy Avatar but seriously I don't get why people creamed all over this.
theacademy 01.23.10	ok, sir, so based on your asserted understanding of the word and concept, how would you explain the difference between "subtext" and "propaganda" ... or "social commentary" and "propaganda" ... or "dissent" and "propaganda" before you try and fail, i recommend seeking out a dictionary so as to finally learn what the term actually means. also, not that anybody should tell anybody else how to interpret art, but I thought avatar's story had many more parallels to the colonists' exploitation of the native americans... i.e. not about "how bad white America and its military is" but rather "how bad white America and its military was" ... but again, this has nothing to do with you not understanding what propaganda is...
robertsona 01.23.10	"the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person" umm, pretty sure thebhoy is using it right, wtf
Kiran 01.23.10	"I thought avatar's story had many more parallels to the colonists' exploitation of the native americans" ya cause the entire movie was pocahantas with aliens
theacademy 01.23.10	despite the fact that I am, once again, not conversing with you, robertsona, I would ask why you would adhere to such a curiously broad definition of propaganda that limits "the spreading of ideas...for the purpose of helping OR injuring an institution, a cause, OR a person" under this definition how is ANY WORK not propaganda.
thebhoy 01.23.10	yes, it was very much about colonization, or imperialism too, but in terms of the actual military used, it was very much about the present military, mainly because colonization WAS EUROPE and they clearly refer to Marines, but that is not the point. Propaganda is essentially a rumour spread by a person or group of persons, however the way most of us see it is in the context of a group or organization propogating a certain rumour or "message" to direct, or sway the opinions of other people. Examples: "Triumph of the Will" or "Fires Were Started". There is also the propaganda of literature and fiction that Marx refers to in his literary theory. To Marx a good work of art demonstrates class struggle and class consciousness, essentially what you may refer to as "social commentary". However if it forcefully pushes any political agenda then it becomes propaganda which is frowned upon. I brought up the film Metropolis, which for most of its 2 hour silent run time, straddles the line between promoting class consciousness and propaganda. However, at the end when the two sides "reconcile" with a handshake and overall cheesy scene, it becomes no different then Napoleonic self-portraits, Nazi films or American military poster art: propaganda. Now, I guess you ignored my correction where I admitted what I meant to say was "pretty much ALMOST dwindled down to Propaganda" because most of the film was social commentary. However, it becomes dangerously close to propaganda during the speech Sully makes under the tree to the Na'vi, and I quote in paraphrase: "the sky people think they can take whatever they want, but we will teach them that they can't". I understand the heresy of paraphrase, however I simply can't fully remember the whole speech but most of it was aiming in the same direction anyways. Essentially what makes that bit close to propaganda is that before the film merely showed you what it thought was evil, but that speech suggested how you should respond or "act" towards said evil.
theacademy 01.23.10	ok wow. "yes, it was very much about colonization, or imperialism too, but in terms of the actual military used, it was very much about the present military, mainly because colonization WAS EUROPE and they clearly refer to Marines, but that is not the point." it also took place IN SPACE. It's called an allegory, you're supposed to overlook the trivial details to recognize the greater commentary. also, one might argue that at the time of colonization, Britain was the dominant imperial power, whereas now that role (presumably) belongs to america. "Propaganda is essentially a rumour spread by a person or group of persons, however the way most of us see it is in the context of a group or organization propogating a certain rumour or "message" to direct, or sway the opinions of other people. " No. Propaganda, in any practical definition, entails a marriage between art and doctrine, and the alleged propagandist is using his art to push that doctrine. here are your examples: Marxism The Nazi Party The American Military ... 20th Century Fox Even under the craziest theory that Cameron is a rogue libertarian filmmaker, he still got all that money for RUPERT MURDOCH. "Now, I guess you ignored my correction where I admitted what I meant to say was "pretty much ALMOST dwindled down to Propaganda" because most of the film was social commentary. " i didn't ignore this. i am just still 100% convinced you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm going to guess you're a cinema major or something...
BrahTheSunGod 01.23.10	Actually, this is pretty much what Cameron was (ridiculously clumsily) attempting to draw analogies to: http://www.globalissues.org/article/86/nigeria-and-oil And the thousands of conflicts like it around the world.
thebhoy 01.23.10	lol, you still assume what I meant was that this WAS propaganda, even though I've said twice now, that it almost reached propaganda. I'm tired of this little discussion essentially because you quoted me and then went on to say that propaganda entails a marriage between art and doctrine, which I further went on to say when I started talking about Marxist literary theory and you being an idiot even thought I was saying Marxism was an example of propaganda, which it's not, because Marxism is not Communism, and which is what I wasn't even saying the first place. And my example of the speech under the tree is why I think it came close to propaganda because it begins to push a doctrine. And because you're 100% convinced that I have no idea what I'm talking about, that makes you an idealogue. So good day, I'm no longer partaking in this now useless discussion.
theacademy 01.23.10	Makes sense^^ exploitative imperial powers + fixed resources = patterned combination throughout history. on a personal element, the whole outsider-gets-taken-in-and-gains-new-appreciation-for-native-culture-while-simultaneously-contributing-to-its-demise-as-a-tool-of-some-more-nefarious-body does bear a striking resemblance to Pocahontas...
theacademy 01.23.10	my comment was obviously at brah. nothing thebhoy just wrote made ANY sense. i mean, were those even sentences? "So good day, I'm no longer partaking in this now useless discussion. " you might want to copy paste some of the stuff I wrote here and put it in a word file, marked TO BE OPENED WHEN I GROW UP
BaconStarship 01.23.10	Avatar = Dances with wolves in space Wasnt a horrible movie, visuals were amazing and it was engaging enough ( even if it did have its flaws).
theacademy 01.23.10	OH MY GOD THAT IS THE GREATEST USERNAME EVER. I WILL SEND YOU A CHECK IF YOU SEND ME YOUR PASSWORD AND LET ME HAVE IT. NAME YOUR PRICE.
theacademy 01.23.10	Current Best Usernames List: 1. FreePizzaDay 2. MrHotMoms 3. BaconStarship 4. Tombits 5. SnackeryBinx
BrahTheSunGod 01.23.10	http://www.epicponyz.com/2010/01/james-camerons.html ^ yup, a little Pocohontas action there. That said, the fact that it the indigenous people were completely unable to rise up until the HEROIC WHITE GUY comes along to help them somewhat bugs me; google Ken Saro-Wiwa, for example.
FadeToBlack 01.23.10	idk I saw it yesterday and loved it
ShineOn75 01.23.10	This movie sucked, I could write a better story.
rasputin 01.23.10	stop with all your fucking long comments the film was utter trash end of story
theacademy 01.23.10	@Brah I completely understand your frustration and agree insofar as it is a problematic cliche in hollywood... however, i don't think avatar is the kind of film that's going to shatter these cliches... And 'wow' re: Ken Saro-Wiwa.
thebhoy 01.23.10	but rasputin, the internet is a very serious place.
MetalMassacreAttack 01.23.10	Yup, Avatar is a big time Dances With Wolves rip off
RobertDennis2 01.23.10	lol
Nikkolae 01.23.10	i agree, the whole story is a bit too much Pocahontas to me, you know, guy arrives in an alien environment, meets local girl, falls in love, defends the natives, seen it before, but it does have the best visual effects ever
parksungjoon 09.22.21	yea