Album Ratings 192
Last Active 09-12-22 5:06 pm
Review Comments 30
|Separating The Artist from the Art?|
Always interested to see what other people think of this topic, because to be honest, I've been going back and forth on it myself. I'm obviously not naive; not every artist I listen to will agree with my worldview, and that's totally ok. However, when artists get busted for objectively bad things, it can make it harder for me to reconcile how I feel enjoying that artist's work. I would love to get some takes from other people here on how they approach this. List is albums from those artists that make me experience a good bit of cognitive dissonance, with a brief explanation. Light trigger/NSFW warning here too: I'm not going to go into graphic detail with what these artists did, but I will likely mention it for context for the potentially uninformed.
Manson recently faced a bevy of credible sexual assault allegations and, from what I've been able to gather, was likely quite abusive to several intimate/romantic partners. That's terrible, it's inexcusable. I'm not going to pretend otherwise or defend him.
However, his work (specifically Antichrist Superstar), has absolutely pushed me through a lot of religious trauma and helped me regain lost self-confidence and willpower which was really robbed from me by fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity. I know I'm not alone in being empowered by SOME of Manson's provocative behavior, but knowing what he likely did to women does dampen this feeling a bit.
Plus, this album is extremely solid from a musical perspective. It's dark, heavy, well-written, and spans the sonic gamut from introspective artsy tracks to chainsaw-riffing barn-burners.
This Is Where Death Begins
I went with a (comparatively) lighter pick here to give us a bit of a break after Manson, as I'm pretty sure Combichrist's Andy LePlegua has at least dodged sexual assault allegations and does not appear to have every actually laid his hands on anybody.
Anyways, look, I get it. The brand of aggrotech/industrial metal that Combichrist trafficks in depends in part on excessive lyrical edge. For fuck's sake, one of that scene's biggest artists is named Suicide Commando. I'm not always excusing the content, don't get me wrong, but it's one thing to have songs like "Shut up and Swallow". It's another to pair that with promo imagery that features suggestively-clothed young girls and repeated Confederate flag representation, as well as a music video that drops the f-slur for no other reason than to drop the f-slur.
That said, Andy is not untalented. TIWDB and We Love You are solid slabs of old-school industrial metal, while his back catalogue boasts some truly solid EBM.
The Fake Sound Of Progress
I have a feeling that this record (and band, really) was likely a predictable pick. Look, we're all aware of Ian Watkins' horrific sex crimes and the man belongs in jail. I'm also skeptical of his bandmates' supposed ignorance as to his behavior, but as I have no proof one way or the other, I'm going to drop that for now.
The band's later catalogue is of no interest to me, but TFSOP and Start Something are undeniably creative slabs of nu/alt-metal, especially the former record. Somehow, this band managed to take all of the best parts of the burgeoning nu-metal scene and smash them all together, resulting in two of the best albums to come out of the naughties rock scene.
Of Beauty and Rage
This list isn't my therapy session, so I don't want to belabor this point too much, but I was raised in a conservative Evangelical home. I've since deconverted and have been dealing with a shitload of religious trauma since. Therefore, it's important to note that the RED guys have never been accused of sexual assault or anything of the like. I've actually met them and, in person, they all seem like nice enough dudes and they clearly care about their fans.
They make this list for me for two reasons. First, a quick glance at the guitarist or bassist's social media page, and you'll figure out pretty quickly that these dudes likely believe that the Democratic party is in fact a socialist unit hell-bent on destroying the nation by telling religious bakers that they cannot in fact be assholes to gay people. Second, some of the Christianese the band trafficks in is still a bit of a sore spot for me, their solid take on alt-metal aside.
|5||American Head Charge|
The War Of Art
I'm cheating a bit here, because I think this record has more of a potential problem of edgy and dark lyrics arguably taken a bit too far (just Google "Seamless"), but I wanted to include it as a curveball.
This album is probably one of the best to come out of the nu-metal scene. It's got plenty of bone-crushing riffs and brutal screams, but is strangely cerebral and progressive at places as well. However, it is also relentlessly bleak. "Seamless" may well be about a sexual assault from the point of view of the abuser, "Never Get Caught" graphically describes a brutal murder, and "Fall" references skinning an enemy.
On the one hand, it's nu-metal, and to an extent, dark stuff is par for the course, and I highly doubt the band has actually done any of this stuff. However, the band's delivery of these themes is SO intense and convincing that it is legitimately disturbing, and even though I love this record, I sometimes worry something might be a bit wrong with me for doing so.
|I think this is a case-by-case thing for me. There are certain artists that have done such heinous things that my distaste for them as human beings taint the music that they create. However, there are situations where a front man does a bad thing (allegedly) and then people take it out on the whole band, when the band hasn't done anything wrong. It's a thin line, there's a lot of gray area. I can see the back and forth and I often times don't fault people for what they decide to do. I guess I'll list a couple examples:|
Dance Gavin Dance - Tilian allegedly did some bad things, in viewing some of these accusations, there's a lot of room for skepticism and gray area, the rest of the band is technically innocent, therefore I don't really see an issue with listening to their music.
As I Lay Dying: Tim is obviously a very disturbed individual and while I enjoyed their music, I have a hard time listening to anything new by them. I agree that he served his time but with recent events of the entire band basically leaving again, makes me believe that he hasn't really changed as a person. I'll still go back and listen to some of their older stuff but not religiously like I used to.
I think everyone makes mistakes, I don't believe in 'canceling' people because then there's no room for growth or improvement, you're just left with people outcasted and a bunch of people watching from their high horses thinking their morally in the right at all times. Sorry for rambling so much, this is one of those things I'm pretty back-and-forth in my mind about.
|I think the best way to go about the art vs. artist debate is that while you can still certainly enjoy problematic artists, understanding why they're problematic and choosing to not support them, in the case of music pirating their albums, not buying merch or going to shows is valid. An artist can do or say whatever they want (outside of very extreme examples) in my view, but they should still face some sort of consequence, whether indirect from a listener's point of view like the examples I listed or directly in being dropped from their label.|
This is all just my $0.02 though, I'll admit I'm still trying to form somewhat of a stance myself, but I'd like to think I'm slowly developing towards a concrete viewpoint while still keeping an opportunity to listen.
|Unless an artist did something to affect me personally I don't give a shit. If I like their music, I'll listen to them, and won't go out of my way to not listen to them on Spotify so that they can't make a fraction of a cent off of my listening.|
|90% of artists are closeted degenerates. The rest of 9% are degenerates in public. /thread|
Simply put, if you care about music, then stop acting like a little girl and rip out the posters of your favorite artists off your wall - go masturbate to something else! Just enjoy the music and ignore the trivia.
Whatever. What a pointless discussion! Just like that stupid-ass pentagram as your display picture.
|"Separating The Artist from the Art?"|
|Nickelback Ranked (2022 Edition)|
|i wrestle with the idea of giving up listening to my fave stuff just cos a member says they're a sex offender. clinging to music made by actual conservatives is massively cowardly|
|separating the fart from the fartist|
|My mentality somewhat differs from my emotions on the topic. |
My mentality is that I should be *allowed* to listen to whoever I want without people making me feel like shit for it because at the end of the day as a musician I like being able to dissect someone's music to create value in other ways such as finding inspiration for my own music. My caveat to this is that once the band is outed for having shitty member(s), I will no longer pay money to see them, buy their merch, etc.
My emotions, however, often lead me to enjoy music from cancelled bands a lot less regardless of my mentality stating otherwise. Bands like Brand New, Dance Gavin Dance, All That Remains, and some others fall into this category where, since they all contain members that are either physically/mentally/sexually abusive or politically deranged, I simply do not enjoy them as much as I did before they were outed. In DGD's case it is only the Tilian stuff that I end up skipping and for both them and Brand New, the lyrics they often use do NOT help their cases at all lmao.
Bands that are impervious to any of these circumstances as far as my acceptance goes are ones that're more foundational to my musical upbringing such as Pantera, Michael Jackson, Prince, Led Zeppelin, etc. that never got properly "cancelled" anyways due in part to the lack of social media's significance at the time their heinous deeds were revealed to the world in a grand fashion as well as simply being too big/important to many people for it to even matter.
This is all just based on my perception and I realize it's not a foolproof way of thinking but the logic checks out in my mind so I'm comfortable with my decisions.
|Personally depends for me, more of a case by case thing. It's difficult because if the music really vibes with you it will be harder to separate them from their work. Plus so many artists are just horrible people, but there's no law saying rapists and assholes can't make music and money, so it is what it is. |
For the life of me I cannot understand why people still listen to Chris Brown. Snoop Dogg once killed a guy and just came out with a kids album. Dance Gavin Dance is a great recent example. It's easy for me to not listen to the new album because it sucks ass, the Tilian allegations are just extra nails in the coffin for me supporting them (financially) or getting on the hype train ever again.
It's not a huge deal, just a bummer to be remined of how shit some people are when I just want to hear some tunes.
|If they have killed/hurt someone or raped someone then I'm out. Can't enjoy the music anymore|
If they have some shitty political ideal I really couldn't care less
|I still like Kanye and Deathspell music so there ya go |
|If you separate the art from the artist youre just left with IST, and that's just a bad time for everyone.|
|It's helpful to know that good artists are just vessels for demonic entities. Their human opinions can be safely ignored.|
|you are all evil disgusting people|
|I give this thread 36 hours|
|We have like five of these threads|
|The artist IS the art... Always thought this was a pointless question. You miss and ignore a lot by separating them in my opinion. It's just a matter of if you care enough, what your personal principles are, and going on a case-by-case basis.|
In other words, listen to what you want, just be honest and say it's because you just don't care a lot about the issues, rather than the "I just separate the art from the artist!!" excuse. It's also totally possible to be aware of an artist's issues and still enjoy their music. Again, it super depends.
|I listen to music I like the sound of not for the lyrics or character of the artist.|
|every single band on this list sucks. poser bands. no surprise they all diddle kids |
|personally i say jam what you want, heavy metal is stupid anyway. crank some burzum and watch manhattan and chinatown. or listen to death grips and watch disney star wars idc |
|>disney star wars|
OK there's my limit
|btw can i remind the kids of a time called 2007 when everyone on sputnik and their mom jerked off to burzum and arghoslent. hell you'd see burzum shirts at every major metal show until around 2016|
for some reason emperor and dissection are still ok cause they just killed people, varg had a youtube channel which is apparently worse
|Given the allegation or crime, I find myself not listening to 1 and 3, although they are in my collection. From a political perspective, bands like Bad Wolves (with T.Vext) or Staind/Aaron Lewis are cringeworthy. I guess conservative ideology should be “ par for the course” for Christian bands, like Red.|