someone
11.30.21 | i am certain nothing but civil discussion will ensue |
dedex
11.30.21 | well this might seem like a "yeah, duh" rec but I recently read The Handmaid's Tale and it's absolutely astounding |
fogza
11.30.21 | i enjoyed the edible woman by margaret atwood, but it's probably much lighter and definitely not an academic piece |
robertsona
11.30.21 | random stuff that comes to mind, even if not all of it is explicitly feminist
Lisa Robertson - Debbie: An Epic
Vertamae Smart-Grosvenor - Vibration Cooking
Anne Carson stuff
Adrienne Rich, "The Phenomenology of Anger"
Virginia Woolf stuff
Sappho stuff
Ann Quin - Passages
Saidiya Hartman stuff |
someone
11.30.21 | doesn't have to be nonfiction or academic, just whatever fits the bill |
Sinternet
11.30.21 | i would probably avoid anything greer's written since the eighties btw, she kinda went off on batshit contrarianism around then and now she's just terf queen |
YoYoMancuso
11.30.21 | michael jackson - thriller |
fogza
11.30.21 | what do the zombies in the video represent in feminist theory, yoyo? |
DavidYowi
11.30.21 | “i would probably avoid anything greer's written since the eighties btw, she kinda went off on batshit contrarianism around then and now she's just terf queen”
What is it with so many British feminists being TERFs? Is it something in the water?
My rec is “Feminism for the 99%” by Cinzia Arruzza, Nancy Fraser, and Tithi Bhattacharya. Not the most in depth read but it’s a succinct and solid look at how capitalism affects women |
YoYoMancuso
11.30.21 | mindless drones of the patriarchy @fogza |
LeddSledd
11.30.21 | darude - sandstorm |
XyphDryne
11.30.21 | The Quran |
hesperus
11.30.21 | i haven't read all of these myself, but i hear they're pretty essential
Kimberle Crenshaw - On Intersectionality
Sara Ahmed - Living a Feminist Life
Julia Serano - Excluded
also @DavidYowi from what i've heard, the British news media has a lot to do with the UK's reputation as TERF island. a lot of the most-read British publications seem to have hate-boners for trans people and publish a lot of misinformation about them |
someone
11.30.21 | regarding terfs' view on trans community. someone explained to me recently that to many feminists, especially the old-school ones who fought heavy battles with the system, this now seems like some "men invading their accomplishment". like if white people started wearing blackface but after african-american liberation movement
i disagree, but i am curious to read more on it too, Greer or not |
Colton
11.30.21 | i guess that kinda makes sense. also lol at this not being a johnny listening log |
Frost15
11.30.21 | Feminists need Jordan Peterson as much as junkies need Jesus. I don't believe in any of them 2 though... |
porcupinetheater
11.30.21 | Bell Hooks is a brilliant essayist at untangling the intersection between race and gender.
Carmen Maria Machado’s fiction is incredible, and her In the Dream House memoir is even better
Claudia Rankine!! |
nightbringer
11.30.21 | @someone
Kathleen Stock's book, Material Girls - Why Reality Matters for Feminism, is probably the book I'd recommend for understanding feminist critiques of gender identity approaches to trans rights.
I'm still thinking through all the issues myself. Stock is a trained analytic philosopher though, so I appreciate the greater clarity and conceptual precision that she brings to the issues compared to, say, J K Rowling etc... |
GhandhiLion
11.30.21 | stock is the terf queen here |
Sinternet
11.30.21 | oh god yeah greer is bad, but she's a product of her time and was once a very influential and important figure, stock is just a massive bigot - anyone who allies themselves with that lgb alliance brigade is not worth paying attention to |
nightbringer
11.30.21 | Stock hasn't made the wisest choices about where she airs her views, and she is not always as emotionally sensitive as she could be (but she's an academic philosopher, and as I move in that world, I cut her some slack, as the norms of discourse are a lot more frank and direct in that world than in everyday society, and the discipline tends to attract people who aren't abounding in emotional skills...) I wouldn't call her a bigot though. But I admit that I don't always know what people mean by that word. |
someone
11.30.21 | sth similar can be said of Camille Paglia, i think |
porcupinetheater
11.30.21 | Cut slack for the academic terfs? Jfc as if academia breeds more “authentic” discourse rather than using credentials to speak over lived experience like Stock does. And make no mistake that what she does has real world consequences that endanger further the lives of trans people who already face heinous bigotry every day, the consequences of which are often deadly. Foh with that “academia is more frank” bigotry-enabling bullshit. Kill TERFs |
nightbringer
11.30.21 | I understand those sentiments, at least to some degree. Anyway, I'll bow out. I'm genuinely still thinking through some of the issues here. But I understand for some people, these are not "issues", it's much more personal. Much love. |
WretchedCacophony
11.30.21 | Wow yeah porcupine that's a bit extreme.
Anyway this is a great dialogue involving two opposing viewpoints, though perhaps Cathy Newman does a very poor job representing the feminist side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54 |
hesperus
11.30.21 | it's also worth pointing out that the scholarship of Stock and other "gender critical" feminists like her is astonishingly lazy, ignoring decades worth of philosophy by trans people about ourselves and then calling us dogmatic for refusing to engage with questions we've already been answering for a long time. trans philosopher Talia Bettcher has written an in-depth essay about this phenomenon, which i've linked below. i'm not saying not to read TERFs like Stock, but if you do, try to keep in mind what's being omitted.
https://dailynous.com/2018/05/30/tables-speak-existence-trans-philosophy-guest-talia-mae-bettcher/ |
Egarran
11.30.21 | I would also like some masculinist recs |
someone
11.30.21 | well, Cathy Newman has a record of poorly representing any views |
Trifolium
11.30.21 | An oldie:
Elizabeth Gaskell - North & South
Fantastic novel. Of course the Brontës and Austen have something to say about this too. |
someone
11.30.21 | thanks for the recs, everyone. keep em coming |
