Assemblage
11.25.21 | I was waiting to see if Gnocchi was going to bring in some more votes on the previous list, but I didn't want too much time to pass.
This is a good looking Top Ten!
It just so happened that the remaining albums with votes were with either three or less, so everything that made it here received 4 votes or higher. There was a collective 102 votes among a whopping 58 different users on the prior list, so I say it was a great success! |
Assemblage
11.25.21 | Is there any suggestions to how voting should go before it officially gets started? How does everyone feel about 1 vote per user in the top ten, as opposed to the double vote from the previous?
Perhaps all double votes must go to separate albums, or should it just be singleton?
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rage11111ro
11.25.21 | I am good with the single vote approach |
Gnocchi
11.25.21 | ''see if Gnocchi was going to bring in some more votes''
I have Steffen from Obscura on the hook - I imagine he's just swamped with press at the mome. I will update when/if it happens. |
ShadowRemains
11.25.21 | nespithe |
CottonSalad
11.25.21 | Focus |
Gnocchi
11.25.21 | Featured in the name of community spirit. |
Frost15
11.25.21 | My goodness this list is insane... Pfff very tough choice but I'm gonna say Focus |
evilford
11.25.21 | Nespithe |
Gnocchi
11.25.21 | Put me onto Cynic's Focus please |
Hyperion1001
11.25.21 | Nespithe for sure |
TheSonomaDude
11.25.21 | Whoa 3 was a debut?!?!? How did that not win |
Sevengill
11.25.21 | ayy my suggestion went to #1. I feel very validated. Cynic and Incantation pls. |
BAT
11.25.21 | i'm going with suffocation |
Atari
11.26.21 | I'm thinking Severed Survival... digging that one a ton lately |
Uzumaki
11.26.21 | Autopsy |
Egarran
11.26.21 | I'll take Altars then |
Assemblage
11.26.21 | I started drinking and forgot I made this list guys, but keep on with the votes and you know I'll update it good when I can.
m/ m/ m/ |
Koris
11.26.21 | Still gotta go with my boi Cynic |
Coast
11.26.21 | Effigy |
Heppasodge
11.26.21 | This list is so tight hahaha but I have to say the same as before: Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten.
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0xME
11.26.21 | Nespithe m/ |
garas
11.26.21 | Entombed without a doubt. |
Demon of the Fall
11.26.21 | Onward to Golgotha made it, so I'll vote for it again of course! m/
I'm guessing there's not a '2nd vote' for each user this time around considering the small pool of albums to choose from... or is there? |
Assemblage
11.26.21 | I have the first set of votes in! This is my first feature here!! Much appreciated, Gnocchi!
It's looking like the single votes are making the competition tighter so we'll keep with one vote per user for now.
Seven did you want me to put you in for Focus over Incantation since it was your nomination?
I casted mine in for Effigy, as I do :) |
KManoc1
11.26.21 | I vote Morbid Angel. |
DavidYowi
11.26.21 | Cynic, very few albums top it |
TheNotrap
11.26.21 | Altars of Madness |
Hyperion1001
11.26.21 | please dear god don’t let cynic win |
Willie
11.26.21 | Cynic |
Hyperion1001
11.26.21 | lmao rip |
pissbore
11.26.21 | please dear god don’t let focus win [2] |
pissbore
11.26.21 | please dear god don’t let Willie post at all |
sixdegrees
11.26.21 | dismember |
ShadowRemains
11.26.21 | focus isn't even death metal
if y'all are looking for a more death metal version of cynic, listen to violent dirge |
Ryus
11.26.21 | altars |
DaveT0738
11.26.21 | Effigy |
Elynna
11.26.21 | Dismember |
LeddSledd
11.26.21 | Cynic |
Sevengill
11.26.21 | "focus isn't even death metal"
changing both my votes to cynic |
worthlessscab
11.26.21 | Altars of Madness contains only trvth. Easy choice for any well-read man |
Willie
11.26.21 | I'm more of a Domination fan. |
Casavir
11.26.21 | Focus would be a lock for a prog metal vote but yeah, that's why I haven't thrown my hat in for it. The lack of votes for Atrocity is pretty heinous.
Voting for Hallucinations again. |
Muzz79
11.27.21 | Altars |
Assemblage
11.27.21 | Looking like some good competition guys, Altars just passed Effigy for 2nd place. |
Havey
11.27.21 | ????????? |
MetalMarcJK
11.27.21 | Focus |
porcupinetheater
11.27.21 | Severed Survival pour moi, gimme that skunk filth |
YoYoMancuso
11.27.21 | michael jackson - thriller |
Sevengill
11.27.21 | but thriller's not dea -- oh, I get it now. |
Egarran
11.27.21 | ...I still don't get it
I mean it's not a debut album either |
dedex
11.27.21 | Focus |
CottonSalad
11.28.21 | (If Focus wasn't allowed due to "prog", I would totally go with Effigy)
Asterisk round incoming... |
evilford
11.28.21 | How is nespithe getting bodied so hard? Travesty |
Metaxu
11.28.21 | Suffocation I'd have to say |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | focus ain’t death metal sorry folks |
Dedes
11.28.21 | Like An Everflowing Stream I cast my vote
I would like to cast 15 further votes to Like An Everflowing Stream |
Willie
11.28.21 | I always considered Atheist more of a Technical Thrash band. Especially for their first few releases, they had more in common with bands like Coroner and Voivod than Death Metal. Cynic's debut has more actual death metal elements than the entire Atheist discography. |
Egarran
11.28.21 | Agerd |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | > Cynic's debut has more actual death metal elements than the entire Atheist discography.
sorry willie brother you know I love you but the title track on piece of time has more death metal than the entire cynic discog. sure it’s very thrashy but focus is pure prog metal with a few harsh vocals here and there.
and yes unquestionable presence isn’t really “death metal” either. coincidentally neither that nor focus are particularly good albums either.
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Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | I guess I can use a comparison to illustrate how I feel.
Human = death/prog
Focus = prog |
Willie
11.28.21 | I get the push-back, though....
"Focus" isn't a pure death metal album, the same way you couldn't call Dark Tranquility's "Projector" album a pure death metal release or In Flames' "Jester Race" or even Death's final album.
If death metal is a tomato, and then you cut it up and start adding onions (prog), cilantro (Jazz), jalapenos (ambience), eventually you have to stop calling it a tomato and start calling it salsa ;) |
Willie
11.28.21 | In my iTunes I have a melodic death metal genre, a death metal genre, and a progressive death metal genre because they really do scratch different itches. For the ones that really blur the lines, I add them to the genre that seems to fit my mood better. |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | I guess my main point here, other than not really liking cynic (which is absolutely a bias, I recognize that), is that it seems unfair to me to call focus the best “death metal” album when compared to most of what else is on this list.
I get that lots of people love cynic, no issue with that, I just that that it’s unfair to rank it above other albums that are more exemplary of the actual genre we’re debating.
and of course it’s the internet so it’s just fun to argue about it honestly. I mean that’s why we post here right? lmao |
Willie
11.28.21 | --sorry willie brother you know I love you but the title track on piece of time has more death metal than the entire cynic discog.--
I would say that song and Uroboric Forms are pretty damn close.
-- and yes unquestionable presence isn’t really “death metal” either. coincidentally neither that nor focus are particularly good albums either.--
That's a surprising statement, honestly. Death Metal or not, they're both classics and so well done.
--I get that lots of people love cynic, no issue with that, I just that that it’s unfair to rank it above other albums that are more exemplary of the actual genre we’re debating.--
This ^^ I do agree with that. |
porcupinetheater
11.28.21 | Cynic = not trad death metal. It is also some death metal. This whole tournament didn’t explicitly say it was strict dm genre-a-la-carte, so Focus here fits
What doesn’t fit is how few votes Severed Survival got rn |
Egarran
11.28.21 | Genre tags can really mess people up |
Willie
11.28.21 | --This whole tournament didn’t explicitly say it was strict dm genre-a-la-carte, so Focus here fits--
I agree with this, too. That's why I voted for it. I was surprised to not see Death make it this far, though. |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | I think it’s because it’s explicitly debuts and all deaths best albums are after SBG |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | that’s why I voted nespithe. Can’t think of a more idiosyncratic, fully-fleshed out opus of a debut in the genre. |
Assemblage
11.28.21 | Some good points all around and I kinda agree with both sides, so fml lol. Maybe for me I don't look at the prog elements of Focus all that much? Bringing up Traced In Air was a good point because it's like the inverse of Focus in a way. Focus always felt to me to still have a dm core (even though it stands out in this list with osdm) and the flourishes of prog are (admittedly) all around it. And Traced In Air is like prog at it's core with dm hovering around it.
For some reason though, a comparison to Symbolic is cropping up in my mind. It's one of the more progressive releases on Death's end but would you really not consider it dm? Granted, it's still not the same level of experimentation as with Focus, but can't dm be experimental without losing it's moniker?
Pretty interesting discussion so wanted to add my little two cents, accentuated by the fact that Focus has dominated both rounds this far. |
Willie
11.28.21 | --I think it’s because it’s explicitly debuts and all deaths best albums are after SBG--
Oh... I missed that part. That explains a lot, actually.
--that’s why I voted nespithe. Can’t think of a more idiosyncratic, fully-fleshed out opus of a debut in the genre.--
I've never heard it, but I'm not a huge fan of 'pure' death metal.
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Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | I mean another point that bothers me is that cynic always felt to me like death metal for people who don’t like death metal if that makes sense.
but again I’m biased so take it with a grain of salt. |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | wow willie jam that TODAY. it’s pure weirdness, I can’t imagine you not at least appreciating it. |
FreudsPocketCanoe
11.28.21 | Focus is the best debut. This list is full of bangers but Focus is something so unique. |
Willie
11.28.21 | --I mean another point that bothers me is that cynic always felt to me like death metal for people who don’t like death metal if that makes sense.--
True. I fit that perfectly. I love progressive death metal and melodic death metal, and even that tech death stuff, but very few pure death metal albums.
--wow willie jam that TODAY. it’s pure weirdness, I can’t imagine you not at least appreciating it.--
Added it to my iTunes.
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Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | I would recommend listening to the 20th adversary of emptiness version, they did a slight remaster and the bass presence is so much better than the original nespithe recording, which is important because the bass on that record is one of the best parts. |
Willie
11.28.21 | Cool. That's the only version iTunes has. |
Casavir
11.28.21 | "Cynic's debut has more actual death metal elements than the entire Atheist discography."
I've always felt like it's a matter of splitting hairs where those two are concerned. Honestly, you could draw comparisons to Believer's riffs for what Cynic became by 1993 and it'd be somewhat accurate. If anything, that's kind of why I'm voting for Hallucinations because that was really the first bonafide prog/tech death album that sacrifices nothing in being death metal whatsoever even compared to Piece of Time. |
Madbutcher3
11.28.21 | dismember for sure |
Willie
11.28.21 | I've never heard much death metal in Atheist. The vocals have always been more Dave Mustaine than Dave Vincent, and the music always felt more thrash than death metal. Shit, "Elements" isn't even thrashy. Believer is another band I never felt fit into the death metal genre. Back in the day, Roadrunner Records was always trying to advertise Believer, Atheist, Cynic, and Pestilence as the 'big four' of the new (at the time) prog death movement. |
Casavir
11.28.21 | "Back in the day, Roadrunner Records was always trying to advertise Believer, Atheist, Cynic, and Pestilence as the 'big four' of the new (at the time) prog death movement."
I'd say all four were playing some kind of tech thrash or progressive metal by '93 for sure. |
Willie
11.28.21 | Yeah, it was around the time of Dimensions (Believer), Elements (Atheist), Focus (Cynic), and Spheres (Pestilience). |
Willie
11.28.21 | I have no idea, personally. |
FreudsPocketCanoe
11.28.21 | Stevie Wonder - Innervisions |
Casavir
11.28.21 | Scream Bloody Gore, for sure. |
Hyperion1001
11.28.21 | > I’m curious what would be, in your opinion, the first death metal album?
Seven Churches for laying the groundwork for the attitude and aesthetic of death metal but it’s hard to put anything else above scream bloody gore. My conception of the original, true death metal is 87 to 95, essentially SBG to Symbolic.
What really makes it for me is that pretty much all of the big names in death metal consider chuck the true godfather and I’m not going to assume that I, some random keyboard warrior, understand the dynamic better than they do. |
Viriathus
11.28.21 | Focus, no contest though Hallucinations is close |
Assemblage
11.28.21 | Gorguts getting slammed, dam. |
Casavir
11.28.21 | That's not too surprising. |
MetalMarcJK
11.29.21 | Nespithe is badass - and I hated to vote against it - but Focus is more badass. |
DePlazz
11.29.21 | Atrocity |
ShadowRemains
11.29.21 | gorguts has better albums than considered dead |
Coolishtiger
11.29.21 | i'll go with Like an Everflowing Stream, but this reminds me I need to listen to Cynic-Focus again |
CottonSalad
11.29.21 | Going on record that Artificial Brain - Labyrinth Constellation wins this category for the 2010's...just sayin' |
porcupinetheater
11.30.21 | Starspawn >> |
MetalMarcJK
11.30.21 | I also figured someone was gonna be total cvlt and nominate Timeghoul’s debut |
Assemblage
11.30.21 | Labyrinth and Starspawn were each nominated on the initial thread but it was late in the game and probably didn't get a lot of attention since the original list didn't have anything after '95.
I added Timeghoul to it because of the Demilich love but that got nothing in terms of a comment lol.
Starspawn vs Labyrinth would indeed be a fierce competition. It might be more interesting to do a post 2000/2010 debut faceoff and see what the top picks of that would be. |
LeddSledd
11.30.21 | Starspawn >> [2] |
Casavir
11.30.21 | "It might be more interesting to do a post 2000/2010 debut faceoff and see what the top picks of that would be."
This is a great idea. |
Coolishtiger
11.30.21 | this list made me realize just how many great death metal albums are the sophomore albums for a lot of great bands |
Frost15
11.30.21 | Starspawn is a masterpiece indeed, but I wouldn't put it over Focus and Altars. |
evilford
11.30.21 | as much as I love considered dead, most of guts' albums are better |
ShadowRemains
11.30.21 | if we're doing new age and debut LPs, I feel like starspawn and graves of the archangels would run away from most competition |
Assemblage
11.30.21 | Imagine Blood Incantation, Artificial Brain, Funebrarum, Disma, Tomb Mold, and Dead Congregation on a polling list, to name a few, lol.
Of course I'd expect the comp to be really between BI and AB but still. |
Gnocchi
11.30.21 | and old school v. new school list incoming after this? |
Assemblage
11.30.21 | I wouldn't mind taking some preliminary nominations here to smooth out a new school list and get a sort of direction of what people would like included. Then the top five of that could go against the top 5 here?
I think at least a modern representation of what we have here would be a good addition. There's plenty of releases to pick from even if just looking at debuts, with a lot of years of modern dm already under the belt.
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