AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | I know it doesn't matter and it's their opinion, but I figured this could be a place to discuss. |
ArsMoriendi
10.07.19 | Ew Pitchfork |
luci
10.07.19 | The blurb for Justin Bieber's "Sorry" made me lol. p4k is self parody
"That this fallen teen idol, the decade’s emblem of white male petulance and bad-boy behavior, was crooning for redemption and second chances in an age of #BlackLivesMatter protests—especially in the context of his enduring appropriation of urban culture—shouldn’t be lost on anyone." |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Wtf. I didn't read the descriptions. |
Sowing
10.07.19 | lol we were just discussing this in the bridgers and sufjan threads...list is terrible. I'll just copy-paste my main thoughts from those threads here to get the ball rolling:
(1) "I'm unreasonably irked by it. After all, it's just a list of opinions. I think simply because the site used to be one of my go-to resources for respectable indie/underground music - combined with the fact that they've now totally sold out and also market themselves as "the most trusted voice in music" - is what gets me. They have such a wide influence on listeners/readers, and the stuff they're promoting is very narrow-sighted in terms of possible styles/genres/influences."
(2) "Yeah that list is embarrassing. P4K backed themselves into a corner as soon as they began adhering to the idea/agenda that any vaguely 'woke' pop is amazing. And I love me some political/experimental pop, but The 1975 at #16? Rihanna at #15? Beyonce, Robyn, and Grimes occupying #4-#2? Holy yikes. A lot of music branching tons of styles over the last 10 years, but as Atari said, their list is extremely homogeneous."
(3) "Yeah I unfollowed them as well, was tired of hearing "why {insert now irrelevant pop album} revolutionized the musical landscape and stuck it to conservatives at the same time!" The first time I saw it, I was like "oh that's cool." Then the second time I probably still ate it up. By the 15th time I was like, OK, they can't all be earth-moving social commentaries. So then I started really listened to the lyrics while p4k hyped them, and they were (mostly) terribly shallow and/or stale takes. Or, better yet, they'd pull one political line from the album and headline it like the entire album was "a statement", then the rest of the record would just be contrived, nonsensical mainstream fodder. That's when I realized that they really just wanted to push their views rather than promote good music; although I assumed at the time that it was due to turnover in the writing department and this was just what the new wave of reviewers brought forth - not that they were purchased and the owner left (so this all makes more sense now, thanks Boney)." |
luci
10.07.19 | Kanye got downvoted hard. The contextualizing at the end of Runaway (only 18th on the list) is delicious:
"But the song’s enduring legacy is in its hook: Once West started toasting the douchebags and the assholes, he couldn’t stop. His unbridled, unapologetic id became the governing force of not only his increasingly dodgy career decisions but of the nation, too, so steadily we barely even noticed." |
Atari
10.07.19 | no tallest man on earth was the biggest offender, not even anything from The Wild Hunt.. |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | "And I love me some political/experimental pop, but The 1975 at #16?"
Lmao yeah they play that song up like it's something truly amazing, and it's a good song, but really? |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | Fucks that should be given: |
DoofDoof
10.07.19 | Bill Callahan in 7th though! |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Can't discuss a list without somebody going "why give a fuck"
Why give a fuck about music in general? We're just discussing. |
DoofDoof
10.07.19 | They are undeniable taste influencers - certain bands you will have heard more of because of Pitchfork.
Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.
It's worth taking a look at. Then laughing. |
luci
10.07.19 | I have to say that p4k has excellent taste in pop music. their picks in that genre were mostly on-point and "Dancing On My Own" at #3 is a statement |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | So they downvoted 2010 Kanye because of 2019 Kanye? |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | That's ok , just don't give them any additional clicks in the process. |
luci
10.07.19 | "So they downvoted 2010 Kanye because of 2019 Kanye?"
Yes. Ultralight Beam was their #1 song for 2016 but it's only 77th on this list! |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | "I have to say that p4k has excellent taste in pop music"
I feel like a few gay men helped with this list for sure |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | lol. Wheres charli at.. 3 times |
Sowing
10.07.19 | "So they downvoted 2010 Kanye because of 2019 Kanye?"
Again, they care more about their perceived political affiliations than they do promoting good music. |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Gone is at 145
Track 10 is 85 |
SandwichBubble
10.07.19 | Pitchfork has been owned by a media conglomerate (Condé Nast) for close to 5 years now, expecting anything other than the worst is on you.
Enjoy Coke® |
Sowing
10.07.19 | Right so when I imply that these changes have occurred recently I do mean in the last 5 years or so, I think i first really noticed in 2016 though. But I've been listening to music actively and following P4K since the early-mid 00's, so it is still a jarring and frustrating shift on their part to people who know what kind of influences/taste/music the site was founded on. Of course, they're free to promote whatever they want to, but since what they want to promote is Beyonce, Robyn, and Grimes occupying the #4-#2 songs of THE DECADE, that's why there's so much backlash from people who listen to things other than pop. |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | I mean, there are some good picks but it seems like they just picked songs from the charts and their writers lists and randomised it. |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | I mean I didn't expect a perfect list. No list will be perfect, but the artists I listed not even mentioned is wild.
Plus you have things like New York the only St. Vincent song chosen, Royals the Pure Heroine track chosen, Yonkers the only Tyler song
There are 3 Nicki Minaj songs... |
Cormano
10.07.19 | not surprised about CSH not being included given Toledo's beef with the site, even when his records sit above a 8.0 avg and have made year ends lists
|
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | Stupid Hoe is better than most songs in the top 10 tbh. Underrated overrated song. |
Cormano
10.07.19 | I'm not even sure I want to click on it |
luci
10.07.19 | Royals from Pure Heroine makes perfect sense though, that was by far the most influential song on the record. It paved the way for Billie Eilish, Clairo etc. |
luci
10.07.19 | no Venice Bitch is rude af and the Greatest should have been higher than #79 |
Sinternet
10.07.19 | i mean who cares really, publications change and pitchfork itself is made up of like 30 different writers, I'm sure when all the sput staff and contribs inevitably do the same there will be some glaring emissions, can't please everybody so why not just go with how you truly feel |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | Nah that'l be James Blake who paved the way for that neo rnb pop thing. |
Sowing
10.07.19 | luci is also correct as well - the pop they chose is not all wrong. variety is the problem here, they should have just promoted the list as "the most influential pop songs of the decade" and then I'd have no beef with the list at all, aside from some personal preferences. i do agree about royals, huge song back in '13/'14. |
luci
10.07.19 | @Flag: Sophie's "Bipp" is on the list |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Royals was def influential for pop, but surely one of the weakest on that album.
As far as James Blake goes, they didn't even include Retrograde. |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | If this was just the most ""influential"" pop songs then This is America would have been hig... WAIT childish Gambino isnt even on here. Pitchfork curveballs. |
Sowing
10.07.19 | "i mean who cares really, publications change and pitchfork itself is made up of like 30 different writers, I'm sure when all the sput staff and contribs inevitably do the same there will be some glaring emissions, can't please everybody so why not just go with how you truly feel"
I get where you're coming from, but I think P4K (1) has less variety in taste among their writers and/or (2) has an agenda enforced upon them to promote certain styles of music and particular political/social ideals. Sputnik's list will undoubtedly have omissions and upset people, but it will come from uncensored, un-"bought" origins. It will literally be an average of our combined decade submissions. My feelings about P4K may be misinformed, but I just get the feeling that if a metal album or some other artist with whose politics the powers at P4K disagree with, it will get shafted in favor of a 3rd track from a safe mainstream pop artist like Nicki Minaj. |
theNateman
10.07.19 | Hot Take: Pitchfork has become the modern Rolling Stone |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Wait you're right no Gambino songs are there wtf |
Atari
10.07.19 | also missing The Hotelier and basically every good emo/punk album of the last 10 years. And no black metal? I’m not the biggest fan of Deafheaven but even I can admit it’s silly they’re not included
But yeah I didn’t know about the p4k change in ownership so w/e. Sput is all that matters anyways :D |
Demon of the Fall
10.07.19 | At least a portion of Pitchfork’s writters always used to rile me, I’m talking a decade or so ago here, they came across as pretentious and arrogant beyond belief sometimes. Admittedly they did peddle some decent music back then. If this is what they’re selling now, I’m not buying, not even close. |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | I hate reading their reviews nowadays |
mynameischan
10.07.19 | part of the reason it seems like they're stretching to promote a certain political or social viewpoint is because they ignore artists that actually might line up with those views in favor of shit like justin bieber. the lack of run the jewels is a perfect example of this. |
AlexKzillion
10.07.19 | This is actually kinda hilarious as I always thought of quite a few of these artists as pitchfork-core |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Pretty much all of these artists they've given a BNM to |
mynameischan
10.07.19 | the most telling thing about the list is that ian cohen only gets 2 write-ups |
Sniff
10.07.19 | 10's the decade for shopping mall music apparently.
Tbh i dismissed the list all together when it started with levels |
DoofDoof
10.07.19 | I will say that I do think half of these complaints might disappear when the album list comes out.
They may have just made an extreme play to give props to all their favourites by awarding songs to pop and hip hop and then albums to your 'big acts'.
I think there's an attempt not to show the same list twice basically. They just went a bit far. |
JohnnyoftheWell
10.07.19 | Ugh I don't want to read this now, am just gonna end up frustrated (that said, am totally gonna read it) |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | I think you're right Doof, there is no way they don't put The Age of Adz or Carrie and Lowell on the albums list |
luci
10.07.19 | Their albums list will be politically driven as well, MBDTF might not even make top 3 |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | The 1975 is gonna be #1 lmao
Edit: #2 because TPAB will be #1 |
nightbringer
10.07.19 | makes me thankful for good ol' sput. |
GhandhiLion
10.07.19 | Lemondade top 10 |
Relinquished
10.07.19 | but it's like 10 years later none of you learned
of course they'd underrepresent |
StarlessCore
10.07.19 | Aside from keef list was terrible |
Pikazilla
10.07.19 | To be fair, 70% of this list wouldn't have made their list better so yeah |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | What a grumpy Pikachu |
Ryus
10.07.19 | "Wait you're right no Gambino songs are there wtf"
one of the few good decisions pitchfork made |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Just unlike them (in my mind) to not include Redbone or This Is America |
Sniff
10.07.19 | Tpab is obviously one. They don't even have to make the album list. A couple of Kanye albums and that's it |
DamnVanne
10.07.19 | Yo most of these artists are grade a boogers |
Pikazilla
10.07.19 | aside from 8, 10, 11, 12, 21, 24, yeah |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | I mean you're both subjectively wrong, but I put them on here not because I think they deserved, but because it's strange they weren't included since P4k loves them. |
Pikazilla
10.07.19 | the only subjectively wrong things on your list are 1, 5, 7 and 13
the rest i can sort of get behind |
Wildhoney
10.07.19 | The Runaway writeup says it all. Damn shame. Sad to say I definitely agree with most of y'all. |
neekafat
10.07.19 | these are all just indie pop songs wtf |
neekafat
10.07.19 | Only two in the top 20 I approve of are "Runaway" and "Midnight City" |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Honestly shocked Mitski made it top 10. I mean I fucking love that song, but...
Jom's right. They try so hard on their takes. |
AmericanFlagAsh
10.07.19 | Rihanna's Work at 15 is what sends me lmao |
SandwichBubble
10.07.19 | "indie pop songs"
someone doesn't know what indie pop means |
DoofDoof
10.07.19 | Sandwich - neither the time not the place...
We have been through this :3 |
SandwichBubble
10.07.19 | I'll never stop. |
Yotimi
10.07.19 | List is bad and all, but they really love these artists. So I'm really shocked 1, 5, and 11 aren't on there |
virpi
10.07.19 | They put Jack Ü and Bieber on their list. Sadly, no Black Eyed Peas.
There are lots of good songs on the list, but overall, it's typical P4K nonsense. Too much agenda for my taste. |
Calc
10.07.19 | the only one i'm actually surprised about is no Sufjan. all the others are whatever. |
Slex
10.07.19 | Yeah when I saw Work at 15 I closed the tab. Sweet Jesus |
luci
10.07.19 | list has no real estate and it's funny to me that no one noticed |
Avagantamos
10.08.19 | I'm glad autechre and lil ugly mane made it on the list |
Sinternet
10.08.19 | Work is a fantastic track and I see nothing wrong with its placement |
CaliggyJack
10.08.19 | LOL I don't know which is worse MetalSucks or Pitchfork. Probably MS cuz Pitchfork isn't full of posers pretending to enjoy a genre they don't actually like. |
naughtcturnal
10.08.19 | I hate Metal injection wayyyyy more than I hate MetalSucks
|
CaliggyJack
10.08.19 | Okay I take that back I totally forgot about MI dear God
Now that I think about most Metal focused publications outright suck |
Demon of the Fall
10.08.19 | 'Rihanna's Work at 15 is what sends me lmao'
Unfortunately I can recall this song and it is literally one of the worst things I've ever heard (and not the stupid modern/incorrect interpretation of the word 'literally'). |
Sinternet
10.08.19 | yeah but you 5d terminal redux so you're incredibly hypocritical |
Demon of the Fall
10.08.19 | I think you should look up the definition of 'hypocritical'. |
CaliggyJack
10.08.19 | >implying Terminal Redux should be anything below a 5 |
Ryus
10.08.19 | work is a good song |
DamnVanne
10.08.19 | Hell is waking up every morning and being one of those “journalists” who uses $20 words to wax poetic about a Nicki Minaj song |
vult
10.08.19 | Wow those guys did it. They put two Frank Ocean albums in the top 10, with Blond at #1 album of the decade.
Also Beyonce S/T over TPAB is a travesty. |
luci
10.08.19 | made a list to discuss the albums |
CaliggyJack
10.08.19 | Frank Ocean lol
I'm pretty sure critics faun over the dude's music cause he's gay. |
