Friday13th: Summer of Prog Discovery M2

e210013 06.05.18	I didn't know nothing about the existence of Badger. I only knew that after Kaye left Yes, he was member of Flash. This is even most important to me because I'm doing my prog journey through the world of Yes, as many of you know. So, thanks Twig because you have increased my knowledge about this. About Carmen, I always was very curious about this band, but I've never checked them, really. I always was impressed with the front cover of their second album, very close the French tobacco brand, Gitanes. I confess I have some expectations about this album and band. Nice second prog journey, fellows.
Divaman 06.05.18	Fascinating stuff. I had no idea that John Glascock was a member of Carmen.
e210013 06.05.18	I didn't know that either. And it seems they opened a Jethro Tull show of "War Child" in 1975. Fascinating thing, isn't it?
Divaman 06.05.18	Yes it is. Our good friend Friday is something of a mad genius with these matchups.
e210013 06.05.18	Yeah, it's true. For more things we think we know about prog, in the end up, we became always surprised. Long life to this Friday's matchups.
Divaman 06.05.18	This makes me suspect the matchup he's going to give my entry in a later round, though. I have a bad feeling I can guess the answer.
wham49 06.05.18	This matchup seems a little more up my alley than the last
hansoloshotfirst 06.05.18	I think a couple of minutes (ca. 4-5 min.) are missing from the yt-upload for 2. The version of this album on spotify is 45.54 min. long. Or did they release different versions of this album?
TwigTW 06.05.18	^^I see what you are saying. I just checked the Spotify version against the times listed for the original release on RYM. The Spotify versions are all a little longer than the original release. It's only seconds in some cases, but it adds up over the course of the whole album.
e210013 06.05.18	@ Diva What you want to mean? I think you are with black feelings. You have to increase your astral spirit, my friend. I also think that it will be rather difficult that my knight can pass, easily, its next fight. Still you kave a great knight, I'm sure about it. I didn't check your album, yet, but I'm a great fan of the band. And I'm absolutelly sure, that you have a great fighter. Be positive my friend.
e210013 06.05.18	@ Wham I suspect the same, but not necessarily by the same reasons, I guess.
e210013 06.05.18	Oh, thanks guys. I'm going to check the Spotify version, next time. My first listening was with YouTube.
hansoloshotfirst 06.05.18	the spotify version is the remastered rerelease, I believe.The yt- version is kinda weird as it is shorter than the remastered but also ca 2 min longer than the original version. (according to rym)
TwigTW 06.05.18	That is weird. A lot can happen to an album in 45 years... Speaking of which, I just noticed that Queen, Sparks, and Carmen released their first album in 1973. I know how Queen and Sparks turned out, but does anyone know how well Carmen did at the time?
e210013 06.05.18	Yeah, you're right. The life can be very strange and very unfair too, many times. In this moment it comes to my mind an expression of someone that isn't no more with us, Trent Gardner, one of the the band's members of Magellan. He said the life is unfair because some have everything and others have nothing. And he was absolutelly right. I transcribed that expression on my review "Leonardo - The Absolute Man". You can see the context of that expression on my review, if you want, bro.
bgillesp 06.05.18	excited
e210013 06.05.18	Me too.
SCREAM! 06.05.18	Badger doesn't reinvent the wheel in any way but they get the wheel turning nice and smoothly We'll see if Carmen can keep up
e210013 06.05.18	"Badger doesn't reinvent the wheel in any way but they get the real turning nice and smoothly" You said the most important about this album. "We'll see if Carmen can keep up" They didn't reinvent the wheel indeed, but somehow they changed it, in a way.
e210013 06.05.18	Strangelly or not, I can see many traces of Jethro Tull on Carmen's album, and I suspect it wasn't only due to the presence of Glascock. Surely it wasn't a coincidence they opened a Jethro Tull show of "War Child" in 1975.
e210013 06.05.18	And surely it wasn't a coincidence that when Carmen ended Glascock was invited to be part of Jethro Tull.
Jethro42 06.05.18	Now that you guys talk about John Glascock, I can remember he was a Carmen's member until he joined Jethro Tull in 1975. He was a very innovative and technical bassman. In 1978, he passed away due to complications of cardiac malformation. It was during the Stormwatch recording sessions. His good friend Barriemore Barlow left Jethro Tull right after touring for Stormwatch cos he couldn't get over Glascock's death. I've only heard this actual Carmen album and I liked it. I have to refresh my memory though. It's my first touch with Badger.Good match everyone.
e210013 06.05.18	Thanks Jethro by your information. As you know I'm a great Jethro Tull fan, one of my fave bands. So, your information is precious. I really didn't know that he was member of Carmen, before this tourney indeed, soon before he was member of Jethro Tull.
Divaman 06.05.18	I always remember Ian kidding about Glascock in his intro to "A Hunting Girl" on the live album. It was something to the effect of, "And now to put to rest the rumour that John Glascock is a kinky b------ who likes to be thrashed severely upon the bum ... we'll do it only slightly here, in this next number ... 'A Hunting Girl'!"
e210013 06.05.18	Great bass player. RIP.
Divaman 06.05.18	e, I'm not so much pessimistic about my pick going down, although if that happens, it's fine. I'm just dreading that if the matchup is what I expect it is, that one of them would have to be eliminated, and I'd love to see them both go on.
e210013 06.05.18	I think I can see your point. I think I know the albums you're talking about. But, Friday decides. If this is the case I think I'm sure I love both, because I love both bands. We will see it, in time.
Jethro42 06.05.18	@Divaman, yeah I've already seen Anderson making fun of Glascock before. I've just watched a live version of ''A Hunting Girl'' (London 1977) and Anderson has a similar phrasing of your description...
Divaman 06.05.18	Ian has always been a very entertaining showman.
Papa Universe 06.05.18	If I copied this very format, but for Post-Punk, would anyone be interested?
Papa Universe 06.05.18	Also, I'm leaning more towards Carmen at this point, but I'll give both a few more spins and then decide.
tmthycnnlly 06.05.18	I'd be down Universe. I don't think I could contribute to the actual album selection but I would love a similar round up format to expose me to the genre.
Divaman 06.06.18	I always feel a little iffy as to what exactly post-punk is -- it's a term I never used before Sputnik -- but i'd be up for it. As for our prog contest, after one listen, I have a clear preference so far. But I'll give them both two more listens, so we'll see if that changes.
bgillesp 06.06.18	I'm in Papi
Friday13th 06.06.18	I have high hopes for Badger, being a big early Yes fan. Still...beating Carmen is gonna take a miracle. I've rec'd Carmen a lot. It would probably crack my top 40 prog albums tbh.
TwigTW 06.06.18	I like One Live Badger, but chose it for the pedigree as much as the playing. I figured you guys would get a kick out of it. Still, I honestly think it's a good album and doesn't deserve to be forgotten. It's a nice jam from beginning to end. This is around a 3.5 for me. I hear more Allman Brothers than Yes in the mix, so they might have done the band a disservice by throwing a Rodger Dean painting on the cover. The album is good, but not an obvious choice for a Yes fan--even with all the Yes connections.
e210013 06.06.18	Yeah, I think you said the most important things about the album. As you said, it doesn't deserve to be forgotten. I really think this is really a good album. It's a very well ballanced album. Maybe it can be considered a bit dated but it mantains intact the great charm of the prog of the 70's. It remains a great testimony of those times. In relation to me, thanks Twig. It's great to listen to it, especilly for my prog journey through the world of Yes and friends. I'm seriously thinking to review it to that journey. I think it represents a great testimony of the capabilities of Kaye as a keyboardist. It remains an underrated keyboardist, until today, what is a pity.
TwigTW 06.06.18	Thanks e21... Also, I like that when Tony Kaye left Yes he took the base hook from The Fish with him. I can hear it pop up occasionally in the lead guitar on the second song, Fountain.
e210013 06.06.18	I never thought that, but maybe you're right.
TwigTW 06.06.18	I might be overthinking it. I do that sometimes :-)
zakalwe 06.06.18	Badger is a right old mish-mash. There’s even some Northern Soul going on in there. Fucking amazing. Can’t fault the artwork either.
e210013 06.06.18	Yeah, the artwork is amazing, as almost all Dean artworks.
TwigTW 06.06.18	yeah, one of my favorite Dean's at the moment
Friday13th 06.06.18	@Twig lol "Almond" Brothers
Jethro42 06.06.18	Badger is loaded of talented musicians, but progressive nirvana is not to be reached in there. Too many references to blues music and jam sessions are made. I like Allman Brothers Band (blues) and Phish (bluesy prog), but I've always been more attracted to the complex structure of prog. So i'm more into tight structure than loose jamming. Carmen are innovative the way they explore prog and flamenco. They feature very good and tight musicianship . It contains its share of outstanding songs which are all happy in nature, they experiment new grounds and they manage to create something special. So it's Carmen for me.
TwigTW 06.06.18	@ Friday: Yeah, Greg and Duane, they were really nuts ;-) Ok, I'm gonna fix that now.
Friday13th 06.07.18	oh wow, no joke does kinda sound like the Allman Brothers haha
Friday13th 06.07.18	The bookend tracks of 1 are good.
Divaman 06.07.18	The Carmen album made me think about another song I remember from when I was younger. I just looked it up, and was surprised to see it was a Uriah Heep song, called "Gypsy".
e210013 06.07.18	From what album, Diva?
Divaman 06.07.18	...Very 'Eavy...Very 'Umble
e210013 06.07.18	Very curious my friend. The first official track of Uriah Heep. Very curious indeed. Thanks, pal.
Divaman 06.07.18	And apparently their first single, as well.
e210013 06.07.18	Even more interesting. But I must confess that I'm not very familiar with the two first albums of the band. My interest began with "Salisbury".
Divaman 06.07.18	I never really followed them. May have to check them out more, along with Wishbone Ash, another older band I never paid much attention to.
Divaman 06.07.18	Anyway, two listens apiece now, and I'm pretty sure I know my vote, but will give them each one more listen.
e210013 06.07.18	I'm not an expert on both bands, but about about Uriah Heep I think you must check essentially "Salisbury", "Look At Yourself", "Demons And Wizards" and "The Magician's Birthday". About Wishbone Ash you must check, definetely, "Argus", their great masterpice. About our prog journey I made my decision already. My only doubt is about the ratings. Maybe tomorrow.
Friday13th 06.07.18	Yeah, Carmen has Uriah Heepish harmonies.
Papa Universe 06.07.18	I'mma call it right now and vote for Carmen. Badger is a little tiring to me.
zakalwe 06.07.18	It’s very black and white to me. Game, Set and Match I’m going with Badger.
Friday13th 06.07.18	1:2 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1
Jethro42 06.08.18	You forgot my vote, Friday. It was Carmen.
Friday13th 06.08.18	oops, fix'd
gagnonov 06.08.18	my vote goes to 2
TwigTW 06.08.18	I learned that Fandangos In Space was produced by Toni Visconti. He's one of my favorite producers. In the early 70s he produced prog acts like Gentle Giant and Strawbs, but he was also heavily involved with glam-rock artists like David Bowie and T. Rex. To my ears, Fandangos In Space sounds like a brilliant hybrid of those two genres (two of my favorite genres). I can't believe I've never heard this before. It's great. I'll be listening to it a lot in the future... My vote goes to Fandangos In Space.
bgillesp 06.08.18	When are votes due? I got behind this week, gonna jam these today
e210013 06.08.18	It's true Twig. This is really an amazing thing. It wasn't a coincidence that when the band relocated to London they were presented to David Bowie, Marc Bolan and Bryan Ferry.
TwigTW 06.08.18	Yes! The early 70s were great days in London, e21.
Sabrutin 06.08.18	And so I'm finally checking One Live Badger after liking the artwork for a long time
Friday13th 06.08.18	@bgill votes due Monday. We'll just do Monday of every week unless things change.
Friday13th 06.08.18	@Twig yeah, I've thought Carmen sounds glam in the Queen sense, but they debuted the same year. Probably just due to shared influences like Uriah Heep and Bowie.
Friday13th 06.08.18	1:4 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2
Papa Universe 06.08.18	oh damn
Sabrutin 06.08.18	The last song of One Live Badger rocks hard
Friday13th 06.08.18	^ yup it's a Neil Young song
Jethro42 06.08.18	It's funny, some parts of ''River'' mainly in the chorus, remind me of Crosby Stills Nash and Young. My Badger's favorite is easily ''Wind of Change''. It's the most balanced tune, and it could be in any Phish albums, even if they arrived 15 years later. The chorus of ''The Preacher'' could be found on a Strawbs' album. Badger is a great jam rock album. My only gripe is the repetitiveness of the rhythm section, and I wish there were less guitar solos. Instead, a rhythm guitar with more defined riffs and interplay with the keys would have been better.
Friday13th 06.08.18	Don't...TELL ME NO TALES ABOUT GYPSIES
bgillesp 06.08.18	I'm going 2 as well. Really enjoyed both but I definitely like the fun feel of 2 more. Like a 3.8 to 4.1 this round, but Carmen looks like it'll get a chance to grow on me more if it makes it through
hansoloshotfirst 06.08.18	yep, I'm voting for 2 too.
Friday13th 06.09.18	1:6 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2
wham49 06.09.18	may as well make it 7 for Carmen, much more dynamic, and fun
tmthycnnlly 06.09.18	Seems like 2's the crowd favorite and it gets my vote as well. 1 has grown on me over a few listens but still feels like the jams go on too long.
Friday13th 06.09.18	1:8 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2 wham: 2 tmthy: 2
Divaman 06.09.18	I feel kind of bad piling on, but my vote is also for 2. Badger is technically very good, but not very imaginative. I hear what people mean with the Allman Brothers comparison, but they don't really interest me either. It was a cool pick, though. Glad to know this band existed, especially with the Tony Kaye connection. And I will say that I liked it better with repeated listenings. Carmen is pretty weird and wonderful. I remember some of it from I was younger, especially that first track. This is one of those albums I'd forgotten about that I'll have to pick up a copy of.
Papa Universe 06.09.18	Is it too early to celebrate, you think?
Friday13th 06.09.18	1:10 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2 wham: 2 tmthy: 2 Divaman: 2 Friday: 2 I do like Badger. A few times I had to double-take on some great guitar playing. The only really proggy thing about it is the keyboards and some adventurous use of harmony and song structure. I am one to consider the Allman Brothers fairly proggy in their prime, so I enjoy it. Monarch from last year's tourney is similar. Carmen, frankly, rules. It's over the top and tongue-in-cheek, but some great playing combining elements of Yes, Jethro Tull, Uriah Heep, flamenco, and glam rock. One of the best prog albums from one of the best years in prog. Obviously, it gets my vote.
Friday13th 06.09.18	It's a pretty clear win, but take your time to jam 'em again. Carmen's second album is also pretty good but not as good imo.
Sabrutin 06.09.18	They are both fun albums though Carmen has the edge on catchiness
TwigTW 06.09.18	Well... I've never won one of these before, but now I can say I have truly lost one, lol.
Papa Universe 06.09.18	I'd say the odds are against you, but even the evens have said "Fuck it!" like eight times now...
Jethro42 06.10.18	It saddens me that the score is that uneven.
Friday13th 06.10.18	I've seen worse haha
Divaman 06.10.18	I would have felt even worse for you, Twig, and might thrown a mercy vote your way until I noticed that you even voted against yourself. :)
TwigTW 06.10.18	yeah Diva, even I think it's the better album. :)
Divaman 06.10.18	I kind of feel like we left Zak out to dry, though.
Papa Universe 06.10.18	nah, he deserves a lil' slap every now and then
e210013 06.10.18	Badger - One Live Badger: Badger is an album heavily influenced by R&B. I'm not a great blues fan but I really think this is truly a good album. And this is a very well ballanced album too. I cannot see real weak points on the album. And the performance of all musicians is also really very impressive. Maybe it can be considered a bit dated but it mantains intact the great charm of the prog of the 70's. This is pleasant music to listen to and with a good singer. It remains a great testimony of those times too. But I think who really shines here is Kaye. So, I think it represents also a great testimony of the capabilities of Kaye as a keyboardist. It remains as an underrated keyboardist, until today, which is a pity. So, my rating is 3.5. Carmen - Fandangos In Space: I said I had great expectations about this album and I didn't become deceptioned with it. This is a great album. It's amazing how could they fuse so well prog rock with the traditional Spanish music. This is a crazy project in the same tradition of some of the best representatives of glamour rock like Queen, David Bowie and Roxy Music, but with a very original and unique pattern. But their music reminds me also two other bands. They seems to me a Spanish version of Curved Air. Sometimes Angela's voice reminds me Sonja's voice. But above all, the originality and madness of their music reminds me Sparks, especially their album "Kimono My House". As happened with that album, I couldn't stop listening this album too. So, we are in presence of a very special album of a unique band. So, my rating is 4.0. So, my voting goes to Carmen.
Snowdog808 06.10.18	I'll go with #1 on this one. I quite enjoyed them both, though I think Tony Kaye really made great use of his talents on the Badger record. I think his style really meshes well with the bluesy but colorful basslines, even if they aren't quite as creative as the amazing ones from The Yes Album.
Papa Universe 06.10.18	you'll vote for 1? you brave soul
TheIntruder 06.10.18	It is another vote on 2, I know that, but this time I vote on 2. I love both but I love the way how Carmen mix both styles. It is surprising and incredible. So much originality.
Frippertronics 06.10.18	Put me on for 1
Jethro42 06.10.18	Rebel =P
SCREAM! 06.11.18	Ultimately Carmen takes it. Badger is just a little too by the book for its own good
Friday13th 06.11.18	3:13 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2 wham: 2 tmthy: 2 Divaman: 2 Friday: 2 e21: 2 Snowdog: 1 Intruder: 2 Fripper: 1 SCREAM: 2 @e21 nice point about Carmen having a similar vine to Sparks Kimono My House. Sparks is more pop but the approach to melodies is similar.
smaugman 06.11.18	Carmen, liked the spanish stuff
Friday13th 06.11.18	3:14 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2 wham: 2 tmthy: 2 Divaman: 2 Friday: 2 e21: 2 Snowdog: 1 Intruder: 2 Fripper: 1 SCREAM: 2 smaugman: 2
Sabrutin 06.11.18	As I said Carmen has the edge on catchiness but I think that on the long I'd probably find myself jamming more Badger. So for all it's worth I'm voting for 1 ahah
Friday13th 06.11.18	4:14 Jethro: 2 Universe: 2 zakalwe: 1 gagnonov: 2 Twig: 2 bgillesp: 2 hansolo: 2 wham: 2 tmthy: 2 Divaman: 2 Friday: 2 e21: 2 Snowdog: 1 Intruder: 2 Fripper: 1 SCREAM: 2 smaugman: 2 Sabrutin: 1 K, I think that's everyone. Carmen wins. I'll get the next list up later today but I gotta go to work first.