artiswar: Vikings S5 finale

Snake. 01.26.18	thought this was gonna be a very late list about the vikings game
WhoopDatTrick 01.26.18	5.0 classic American Football - American Football
artiswar 01.26.18	fuck you guys and... fuck you guys.
WhoopDatTrick 01.26.18	i just came to display one of Snake's shitty 5's in perfect timing, yo
Anthracks 01.26.18	this season was pretty terrible compared to the rest of them. excited rollo is back though
Gameofmetal 01.26.18	The season trailer had me really excited by giving me a sense that the scale would be much greater and tone darker. Is that accurate or did it kinda go in a different direction? Only saw the first episode which was pretty good. Actually still kinda waiting for this series to hit the next level, every season is quality in its own way but it's always missing something in terms of character or drama or visceral action. Oddly I find this show to be really overrated by its fanbase but fairly underrated by the outside world.
artiswar 01.26.18	The first 2 seasons or so were super hit-or-miss. The main relationship between Ragnar and Athelstan was what kept me coming back, but all the side-plots and characters were boring and one-note. But something happened in the third season... The show hit an insane hot streak that hasn't run out imo. Season 4 especially is one of the best seasons of a show I've ever watched, and season 5 has lived up to the hype. It's the best show on TV for me right now, it's like a reverse Game Of Thrones, where it started out shaky but developed in an incredibly satisfying way. The show basically switches protagonists at one point, and the new guy has BIG shoes to fill, and he actually does. Ivar is incredibly compelling to me, I mean he's a viking who is dead bellow the belt yet not only survives but lives up to his father's reputation somehow. It's totally nuts. The show becomes more beautiful and well-constructed as it goes, I've been totally enamoured by it for the past couple years. It's getting up there with Breaking Bad and The Wire to me, no joke.
Anthracks 01.26.18	Disagree. Season 4 saw a noticeable decrease in quality and 5, so far, is bordering on poor. 2 and 3 were the peak.
artiswar 01.26.18	What did you not like about it?
Gameofmetal 01.26.18	I used to think season 2 was noticeable step down from season 1, but after I rewatched it I decided it was better and I'd call it the strongest season. Season 4 was a little shaky because it had to deal with replacing Ragnar but I think Ivar has been doing a pretty good job of filling the void.
Anthracks 01.26.18	The characters have become way too cartoonized. The dialogue now exists only for furthering the snail-paced plot, whereas it used to actually address broader ideas than revenge and war. The character development, again, isn't believable at all. The acting has been really bad (esp Lagertha and Heahmund). Floki sidestory is throwaway so far in an attempt to keep him relevant. The show has become way too theatrical regarding character interactions, like watching a stage production. Pacing is poor. I could go on.
artiswar 01.26.18	Well I could not disagree with you more on almost all those points. I'll agree that the show has become very theatrical but I like that. I used to find the pacing in the first 2 seasons to be really bad, but that was only because I didn't care for a lot of the characters. At this point I'm invested in pretty much everyone. To each their own though, I'm actually gonna do a rewatch because it's been forever since I saw the first 2.
BallsToTheWall 01.26.18	Dude, if I had seen this list earlier I wouldn't have made one, out of respect I'll delete mine.
Anthracks 01.27.18	I don't see how you can disagree, at least about the character development. The choices that the characters make are completely out of line with the way they'd been developed... it's completely forced. Rollo siding with Hvitserk and Ivar over Lagertha and Bjorn? Heahmund's complete lack of loyalty to anything despite his character being born of an incredible, unbreakable conviction. Halfdan siding with Bjorn because of an incredibly forced and brief stay in North Africa, over his brother (who historically he succeeded, not that I care about historical accuracy), who surely saved his life hundreds of times. Ivar literally becoming a screaming infant cartoon with no intricacies to his personality other than full red revenge for the death of his mother (he's sure to mention it every scene he's in). Aethelwulf's personality completely mirroring Ivar's, one-note foolish revenge, divesting him of any intricacy he once had as Ecgberht's son. Aethelwulf's other son renouncing the kingship to Alfred (again, not remotely historically accurate), despite his only scenes establishing a sense of bull-headed stubbornness. Bjorn falling in love with a psycho chick because she threatened to neuter him? Not buying any of the "chemistry" there. Margaret being a simple modern mirror of the far superior Siggy - re-tread plot with Bjorn's children. Astrid (one of the better recent characters), completely losing all of her character after making the completely forced decision to marry Harold, not even for power or for an inevitable opportunity to betray him... just to force the plot. I have no qualms with characters being duplicitous or showing a lack or loyalty or defecting, but with this season the writing has been so poor and all of these, and more, character decisions have been completely forced in order to provide some half-assed ultimate conflict, which I didn't believe was particularly affecting. All of these developments existed for no other reason than for these characters to ultimately kill one another in the finale, but I didn't care at all about any of them dying, and these are characters that I previously cared about.
artiswar 01.27.18	I really don’t mind Rolo’s development tbh. It hangs together for me. He probably knows Ivar was the most important/special of Ragnar’s sons, as Ragnar himself knew. As for Halfdan, my problem isn’t that he sided with Bjorn over his brother, it’s that the dialogue didn’t convey that particularly well; when asked why he’s doing this, he just says ‘Bjorn saved my life’ which is frustrating because there’s more to it than that but it isn’t articulated properly. I think that’s a failing of dialogue not storytelling but that’s just me. I will concede that Bjorn is a pretty lame character now and the thing with the marriage was super forced… He’s a badass, but kind of a bland one. I find his half-brothers to be a lot more intersting. To me, Aethelwulf was never an intricate character… His father, now THAT was an interesting and complex character, the perfect villain to match the complicated character of Ragnar. Aethelwulf is a simpleton by comparison, but he’s not central to the story. I always felt kind of sorry for him tbh, but never really liked him. I don’t know what the heck they’re doing with Margaret, that’s kind of a wait and see situation for me. I disagree hard about Astrid… I didn’t like her at all but I found her storyline compelling in a very painful way. Like, her story was just hard to watch every step of the way but I think it was well done. I definitely felt a lot of emotions as that story unfolded. When it comes to character development on this show, it’s kind of tricky. Things are kind of on rails to an extent because this is somewhat based on non-fiction. Also, there’s the fact that almost all these characters are blood-thirsty killers, and so any depth given to them is somewhat dampened by that fact. I take the show for what it is, a very flowery almost art-house take on the history of the vikings. I think it’s fantastic.
artiswar 01.27.18	@Ballstothewall That's not necessary but thanks.