Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5adHJhGC5k |
Futures
09.21.16 | oh no |
heck
09.21.16 | I 100% agree with you man but I have a feeling this thread will not go well. |
Sinternet
09.21.16 | yeah agreed but thread will be trainwreck unfortunately |
Futures
09.21.16 | yeah please delete this before it gets out of hand |
Sinternet
09.21.16 | or leave it up and allow me to see how many users are dumbasses |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | ^ |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | let's see how many users are dumbasses or bigots |
romulanrancor
09.21.16 | shits fucked up |
Greyvy
09.21.16 | OwO what's this? |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | taser gets deployed -> 3 second pause -> "Shots fired!"
that part made no sense to me. that cop was so scared of a dude with his hands up moving very slowly |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | Honestly this issue isnt as black and white as the people you're talking about make it out to be and is important to see other views. Some cops get way out of line but I don't condone shooting any and all cops because of it. |
heck
09.21.16 | I don't think anyone who isn't mentally unstable or exploiting the issue just to start shit condones shooting any and all cops because of it |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | "shooting cops"
bitch where |
Greyvy
09.21.16 | dallas |
Futures
09.21.16 | louisiana |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I think what most people don't mention enough in my town is that he was broken down trying to get help and that no one had called the cops on him the police just happened to be driving down the road he was on, heading to an actual call for police, and the cops stopped when they saw him and treated him like a suspect and when you haven't broken the law a cop can not tell you to put your hands up and can not take any action against you. he was actually within his right to not comply because he knew he had done nothing wrong. |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | I didn't watch the YouTube video until now. I was referring to the stories of people elevating violence against cops in response to police brutality. |
SandwichBubble
09.21.16 | sad |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | fuck all y'all, fuck this, why can't we all be friends |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | "the cops stopped when they saw him and treated him like a suspect"
Has there been a statement explain why they did this? Because that's ridiculous. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | if you are wondering why the helicopter was there if he hadn't done anything wrong it is because the cop who killed the man is the wife of the man in the helicopter following his wife around her patrol. he's the one who say's "he looks like a real bad dude" literally two seconds before his wife murders the guy. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | no they haven't explained much yet |
Relinquished
09.21.16 | I'd ask for a divorce right there |
Relinquished
09.21.16 | the bitch is on paid leave too |
Futures
09.21.16 | notice how after ass420 gets corrected he has nothing to say. fuck off |
SandwichBubble
09.21.16 | @Asdfp277 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8 |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | love that song tbh lmao |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | yeah that's a good song |
SandwichBubble
09.21.16 | Yeah, not even that bad. Just a bit repetitive is all |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | that shrek band's cover of it is good too |
SandwichBubble
09.21.16 | "shrek band"
Is that really Smash Mouth's legacy nowadays? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | lmao |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | "he looks like a real bad dude" this was straight up profiling on his part. Hearing him say that was mind boggling like what are you basing this off of?
Also did you hear about that cop that drop kicked a guy of a motorcycle after chasing him down a road? |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | anyway, you guys have got a huge cultural problem rn tbh |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | Sounds like the stuff that's been going on in Orlando, Florida and around Palm Bay, Florida. Hope it calms down bud. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | There's been a lot of awful police encounteres recently, I can see a lot of innocent people on both sides paying for what these guys are doing. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Btw there's dash cam footage of this particular shooting available. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | It's a shame. Surely, humanity can't agree on all things, but if we practiced tolerance and a patient, calm approach to handling things, the world would be a much better place. |
heck
09.21.16 | stating the obvious but part of the problem is how militarized cops became after 9/11. it's like they're trained to think and react like they're in a war zone, not protecting your average citizen. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @hellscythe Sad but true. |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | on the issue of unjust killing of unarmed blacks, in the south, i dont think 9/11 had much of a change. this is the same crap that was happening when i growing up...now we just have cameras to record it and social media to create a national stir |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | ". it's not the law to put your hands up and do what you're told by a cop when you broke zero laws. "
actually it is. not defending police brutality or the issue (idek the story). but thats just blatant misinformation right there. you dont get to decide if you're innocent lol |
Futures
09.21.16 | yeah resisting arrest is pretty obviously a crime lol |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "put your hands up and let that child go"
"no! i havent raped her yet" |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I'm not talking about resisting arrest because that means you are already being accused of a crime. you can not be walked up on when you are not doing anything illegal and no reports of a crime and no warrants and be forced to comply with what cops tell you. that is illegal and cops know it is. been proven time and again |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "put your hands up and let that child go"
"no! i havent raped her yet"
that has nothing to do with what is even being talked about. |
RogueNine
09.21.16 | Close Your Eyes has got some seriously questionable lyrics though. Good song but yeah. |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | cops are allowed to seize you when there's probable cause that you committed a crime. stopping a car aint enough to seize the man and subject him to searches and questioning
they're allowed to use deadly forced to stop a proportional threat when there is fear of imminent grave bodily harm
here we have a guy walking slowly with his hands up towards his car when the cops had absolutely no probably cause. no need here to get seized or blasted. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | These wolves in sheep's clothing who pretend to be ethical cops need to leave the police force. |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | you can, and it's totally reasonable to give a cop the power to arrest someone on the reasonable suspicion of a crime happening. the problem is more that us cops use that power without any reasonable suspicion, and since they don't know how to handle situations + the cases of racism, suddenly it's not so reasonable to give them that power.
it's a cultural+execution thing, on paper giving cops the power to arrest on reasonable suspicion is a good thing, avoiding bureaucracy, etc |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | what is being shown on these videos is the police being completely, 100% unreasonable, in such a multitude of instances, that it's obvious the cops as a whole ain't prepared enough for the job and should be fired immediately |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | lol i was just using a joke to suggest why its illegal to disobey a police officer. there are a ton of grey laws that give them the right to give you a misdemeanor in that situation and theres no way a court will back you up. and lets pretend it isn't illegal... don't disobey a police officer |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | like I said I'm not talking about this particular situation |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | i hear ya |
AlexKzillion
09.21.16 | #BlueLivesMatter is the dumbest hashtag I've ever seen tbh. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | If you take out the blue part, it's only half as bad. |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | there's no point discussing dirt-poor arguments, etc. why mention the #bluelivesmatter, or even the racist #alllivesmatter and the racist blm activists, et al. it's all pointless, they're all idiots, there's always a huge group of idiots on all sides of an argument, dwelling on their presence prevents the discussion from reaching a higher ground |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "in that situation"
what situation?
"and lets pretend it isn't illegal... don't disobey a police officer"
You are not educated enough. A police officer is a public servant. Please educate yourself and come back. Do you need help doing that? |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Asdfp Well put. |
AlexKzillion
09.21.16 | The most cancerous thread I have ever seen on the internet.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691022/article/kaepernick-blaine-gabbert-mediocre-in-49ers-tuneup |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | reaching as low as to say "you're just not educated enough" also brings down the discussion, please don't retort to such put-downs if you want this argument to be successful |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | ""in that situation"
what situation?"
the situation where you are resisting an order of a police officer. no idea why you're insulting my character. but continue to be "educated" through articles your FB feed and laugh at someone trying to argue something reasonable... |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | mralex: again, literally no point in dwelling in the most idiotic arguments
thnaks strike -w- |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I still can't believe this guy said don't pretend it isn't the law that everyone has to obey what a police officer says. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I haven't been educated by any articles on a facebook feed. I'm talking about what you just said that is factually wrong and I am asking you if you need help learning facts so you can be an appropriate part of the conversation instead of contributing to falsehoods. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | Dude it is not the law that a police officers words are the law. |
Asdfp277
09.21.16 | well, it's obvious neither one of you is interested in getting anywhere & are just in it to battle, peace out ✌️ |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | then fine provide me with something proving me wrong |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @asfd I actually am, youre not contributing either. why assume Im laying down a wall and refusing to be proven wrong? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | It shouldn't be obvious asdfp. If you can't deal with it then you can leave. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "mralex: again, literally no point in dwelling in the most idiotic arguments"
I wouldnt consider a disagreement of the laws of my country 'idiotic' but w.e maybe i have low standards |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | yea asfdhdwlhf managed to be more aggravating then a guy who insulted my education in an argument. just ignore him, storm |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | spaceman, what are you getting at with the "cops must be obeyed" line of reasoning? it seems like a premise to a larger conclusion.
yes cops should be obeyed, but could you elaborate on why that's relevant to a discussion of the use of deadly force? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | to be fair there's a million things you could be educated greatly on but not this particular issue so I'm not trying to insult your overall education. I'm trying to say you need to be more aware before you say always obey the police. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrnH4Q9DxdE |
Futures
09.21.16 | You are not educated enough. A police officer is a public servant. Please educate yourself and come back. Do you need help doing that?
lmao |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @typhoon because OP said " it's not the law to put your hands up and do what you're told by a cop when you broke zero laws." on his list. Im not saying everything a cop does is just, but I am saying that telling people they can start refusing to cooperate with cops if they truly believe they are innocent is an extremely dangerous thing to spread |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "to be fair there's a million things you could be educated greatly on but not this particular issue so I'm not trying to insult your overall education."
I hope you're not trying to now say that im uneducated in more than just this argument, and that you just worded this very poorly |
Futures
09.21.16 | assdfp420 do you even read what you type before hitting submit? |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | People justify a lot of shootings with "if they just did what the officer said..." Imo not complying to certian orders should not be a death sentence. I mean if the order is 'drop your weapon' then fair enough I can understand that, but 'stop resisting' isn't good enough. |
Futures
09.21.16 | all the dude is fucking saying is it's probably wise to obey a cops orders especially after what's been going on. not doing so is just asking for trouble |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | are you using a random YT vid to provide evidence of your case? I cant even hear what the cops are saying lol |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | hmm I thought I worded that correctly lol. I was implying you could be brilliant in every other area haha |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | holy fuck thank you futures.
@scuro anyone who does that is an ass, but you cant misinterpret my point and twist to be like "omg hes so racist and is defending a cop who shot a black person who did nothing wrong" |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @storm yea no worries figured you werent going that far haha |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | just watch the video. the cops aren't really talking the first half of the video except to ask whats going on with you and your dad and have you been treated for mental health before. they don't answer a lot of his questions and what the cops say is not as important as what the man says and what the cops ultimately do |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | ah I see it now, probs just the way i read it cuz it can go either way |
EyesWideShut
09.21.16 | always two sides to every story but yea this was a murder.. same as that guy in Louisiana.. and that guy who was choked to death NYC..
not like that loser Michael Brown who they made a martyr after he robbed a store and was punching the cop in the head. |
Futures
09.21.16 | eyeswideshut brings up a good point. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | okay Ill watch it once my record stops spinning but let me make it clear I'm not saying cops cant be unjust and are always there to help... they are people too. but thats what the court is for. unless a cop is telling you to shove your face up his ass and lick it clean or something completely absurd like that, just cooperate and report the situation after the incident. if you truly are innocent, you should have nothing to fear. and before you guys all mob me saying that black kids are dying left and right by just letting the cops do their thing, these are obv fucked up issues and the way to solve it is not to just fucking disobey cops because you cant trust em |
Artuma
09.21.16 | http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly0x98ogki1qc66uf.jpg |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | agreed eyeswideshut is probably dead on assuming everything ive heard from this story is true |
Futures
09.21.16 | wow art epic 2008 meme |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | lol art for real tho in a nutshell right here |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | A: Behind a badge
|
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj6YXF5qh7w
Here's a better one. My point is that you can not accept what a cop says just because he says it. If they say it is illegal but it is legal it is okay to hold a public servant accountable by quoting the law and tell them they are wrong. |
Futures
09.21.16 | all spaceman is saying is doing that puts you seriously at risk and if you can't comprehend that there is no hope for you |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | lmao |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | Thats common sense yeah but it doesnt almost justify the outcome of the situation. To think that a few years ago i would actually defend authority whenever an event like this would arise. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | How is being told that it is illegal to bike here so you can't and then you quote the REAL law about how it is LEGAL to bike here putting yourself at risk? You just served the public by putting the public servant in their place and stopping them from stopping what you were legally doing or worse giving you a ticket. That's not putting yourself at risk. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | storm, let me counter a very specific and obviously retarded situation of a pedestrian filming a police encounter that works in your favor with one that works in mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB8katyjc9Q |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | this bitch is convinced shes innocent too. i'll warn you that its very hard to watch without hating humanity |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | "let me counter a very specific and obviously retarded situation of a pedestrian filming a police encounter that works in your favor with one that works in mine"
This is one of the most beautiful phrases I have ever read. That's perfect. That sums up so many things. I can't even put my finger on the word to describe this.
Art
5/5 |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | Fundamental facet of the human condition in living color |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | lol im not sure if you're taking a jab at me but god bless |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | damn that bitch fucked up in so many ways |
Tyler.
09.21.16 | What happened here someone sum this all up so I don't have to read |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "let me counter a very specific and obviously retarded situation of a pedestrian filming a police encounter that works in your favor with one that works in mine"
You haven't made a point yet as far as I can see. You made a generalization so any evidence I provide could be ammo for the way you just tried to dismiss my point. How does your video work in your favor again? |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | let me be clear that I watch your link storm. he was very respectful and did not just go off and bike in the officer's face (ie ignoring the officers orders). instead he respectfully argued his point knowing he was correct and the officer was just a semi shitty person who by the end of it didnt really seem to care when he realized he was wrong and just walked away. I'd say the guy never actually went against an officer's orders so it doesnt really prove anything in this argument. just my interpretation |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "You haven't made a point yet as far as I can see"
thats clearly not true im not even gonna explain to you why its not true because you know I have made points, dont play dumb
you also just sent me a YT link, thats not evidence dude. you're at the same point in the arguement as I am, that is just back and forth personal views |
Relinquished
09.21.16 | there's the rub |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | "lol im not sure if you're taking a jab at me but god bless"
I was not. The way you phrased your argument illuminates the fundamental problem of all major debates. There is no right or wrong. There can be no hope of a consensus. Because there will always be supporting arguments on both side that provide damning evidence. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @reliquished yea but the difference is im not claiming to be providing a legitimately indispensable aruement, im just sippin a beer watching this play out |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "and lets pretend it isn't illegal... don't disobey a police officer"
Okay, so this quote is the whole focus and reason for our argument. What you said can be applied in so many situations that both of us can go on for days. My whole point is that police officers are not the Gestapo, but you made a generalization about how we should just obey cops always because it is the law. If you are going to argue against that then you are going to have to provide actual laws. It's okay for me to provide youtube videos as evidence because it shows what I'm saying is true. Showing the same thing I did, but with opposite results is not a proper counter to my argument. It's faux evidence. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | zippa I have mad respect for you |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | And it's only one law that you have to show me for you to be right. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | Zippa that doesn't apply here because what we are debating is what an actual law is. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | " Showing the same thing I did, but with opposite results is not a proper counter to my argument. It's faux evidence."
aka facts that go against mine that sit at the EXACT same amount of credibility are dismissable |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | So where is the law that says people have to do what a cop says in any situation just because a cop said it. I'll be here forever until Potsy and Jom kill themselves from hating my presence so much. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "@scuro anyone who does that is an ass, but you cant misinterpret my point and twist to be like "omg hes so racist and is defending a cop who shot a black person who did nothing wrong"
I wasn't man, my point wasn't directed at anyone |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | laws: contempt of cop; disobeying a police order; resisting arrest; etc. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | No brother I'm asking you to show me evidence that you have to always do what a cop says. I've given examples where cops walked away because they were met with the word of law coming out of a citizens mouth. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @scuro my bad then bro, gotta be defensive in what seems like a 1 vs 100 lol |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | obv if a citizen proves a cop wrong the cop will have a reaction like walking away. whats he gonna do get on his knees and suck the biker's dick in an act of apology lol? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | What situation is the contempt stemming from
Disobeying a police order? Did the cop follow procedure so that they knew they had the right to give an order? |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Yeah no worries, I actually agree with you for what it's worth. Whether police are correct or not, it's dangerous to disagree with/resist an armed individual in any case. I don't think it's right or a good thing that it is that way, but compliance is definitely the safest option in most cases. Dispute should probably happen afterwards in a legal setting. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | +10000 pts for scuro for explaining it correctly |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "obv if a citizen proves a cop wrong the cop will have a reaction like walking away. whats he gonna do get on his knees and suck the biker's dick in an act of apology lol?"
So we agree then. Whatever a cop says is not made into law. Glad this is over. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "What situation is the contempt stemming from
Disobeying a police order? Did the cop follow procedure so that they knew they had the right to give an order?"
can you rephrase this cause I honestly have no idea what youre asking me |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | what the hell no scuro did not explain it correctly at all |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | "Zippa that doesn't apply here because what we are debating is what an actual law is"
Are you? Or are you debating the intrinsic duality of human nature? The powerful affirmation of self-belief weighed against the repudiation of conflicting rhetoric. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | holy fucking shit if this entire time you thought that I was saying that everything a cop says or does is in true authority of his job and he's never wrong you are actually an idiot |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I'm not asking you I'm responding to your vague mentions of contempt disobey and resist. Resisting arrest has nothing to do with what we are talking about because we aren't talking about people who have been accused of crimes. Are you guys that blind that you just think these people and organizations have this grand power of you |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | me: it's not the law to put your hands up and do what you're told by a cop when you broke zero laws. "
you: actually it is. not defending police brutality or the issue (idek the story). but thats just blatant misinformation right there. you dont get to decide if you're innocent lol
argument begins |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | storm, let me put it to you this way. if a man walks into your house, points a gun at you and says to put your hands up, my piece of advice would be to cooperate. a cop is essentially a man with a gun, just pressumably with better intentions. so you might as well cooperate regardless of what you believe is the case. even though I've offered the laws that say you are obligated to listen, it goes beyond that to the point where you should just do what he says in an act of self preservation. if he fires at you, then he's no better than a man who broke into your house, but that doesnt really fucking matter once your dead |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | Have you ever wondered if the basis of human moral conflict stems from the inability of language to accurately convey deeply held thoughts and belief?. It amazes me how simple misunderstandings can metastasize into something so ugly. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "holy fucking shit if this entire time you thought that I was saying that everything a cop says or does is in true authority of his job and he's never wrong you are actually an idiot"
I think you're saying not to argue with a cop and to take it to the courts or report it instead of addressing the situation right there with the cop because it's too dangerous to try to address it right then and there. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | @zippa we aren't being ugly and I don't plan on going there. Yes you are right though that we as humans are not great at clear communication. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | let me put it to you this way. if a man walks into your house, points a gun at you and says to put your hands up, my piece of advice would be to cooperate. a cop is essentially a man with a gun, just pressumably with better intentions. so you might as well cooperate regardless of what you believe is the case. even though I've offered the laws that say you are obligated to listen, it goes beyond that to the point where you should just do what he says in an act of self preservation. if he fires at you, then he's no better than a man who broke into your house, but that doesnt really fucking matter once your dead [2]
Is that a good system? Fuck no, but it's very often how it works. I'd be more concerned with living and getting back at the cop afterwards in a courtroom, rather than risking my life telling a man with his gun pointed at me that I don't need to put my hands up, no matter how correct I am or how much the law is on my side. |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lMs_ngPyM |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | I'm going there by myself. I'm a man on a journey.
A very sick man on a journey.
I need some vitamin C. My throat is on fire. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "I think you're saying not to argue with a cop and to take it to the courts or report it instead of addressing the situation right there with the cop because it's too dangerous to try to address it right then and there."
arguing =/= outwright disobeying. arguing with a cop is fine if you're respectful about it and stop doing what it is he is asking you to stop while you try to argue it. like dont be all "lol you pig u dont know shit about ur own lawz" and that should go without saying but if you watch the vid I linked people dont get the difference. |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | Sometimes you can't do anything though, like when that cop shot the guy that was lying down with his hands up. Cooperation and rationality is usually the best course of action though yeah. Even when it's bullshit. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | lol six |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | What happened to cop has a gun though so it is better to just resolve it after the fact and not to argue. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | 'Sometimes you can't do anything though, like when that cop shot the guy that was lying down with his hands up. Cooperation and rationality is usually the best course of action though yeah. Even when it's bullshit.'
exactly. you dont say "stop, drop and roll shouldnt be taught to kids cause theres a chance you're fucked no matter what so your best bet is to just try to stand your ground". its not any different tbh |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "What happened to cop has a gun though so it is better to just resolve it after the fact and not to argue."
if an officer draws his gun yeah drop the "section 3.456.33234.02 lets me do the thing" bullshit and swallow your fuckn pride and let the man do what he wants until you can address it later |
ConcubinaryCode
09.21.16 | I'd rather see a cop being held accountable to his actions after a standoff than be dead. |
EyesWideShut
09.21.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebt0l8s3aMQ
"please step aside.. im going in.." lol |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | storm, im stepping out for a smoke but keep em coming Im having a blast |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | already made all the points I wanted to make. |
Tyler.
09.21.16 | Good game guys |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | oh yes my manners are horrible, good game SpaceMan |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | glad you concede |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | ... |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | god damnit I was ready to smoke a bowl I'm going to kill you after this. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | (:
thats illegal |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | you're arguments have so many holes spaceman. your last comment pertaining to the argument especially because your original point was a cop has a gun but then you change it to if a cop has a gun drawn. so it is not up to me to keep arguing. I won because I already stated everything I need to win. you having the last comment means nothing when I already outscored you beyond your ability to catch up |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | have a good day, I'll be celebrating my victory |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | Legalize drugs and murder |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | i mean I offered the laws you asked for, addressed all your points unlike you did for me and watched your YT link but okay am I invited to this premature celebration? |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "Legalize drugs and murder"
all drugs should be legalized ill give you that |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | dude spaceman I would still share a joint with you and have a pint |
RogueNine
09.21.16 | Don't worry about it Space, you won. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "your last comment pertaining to the argument especially because your original point was a cop has a gun but then you change it to if a cop has a gun drawn."
yes cops tend to have guns i never refuted that. but to be fair I provided the laws that make what I called out in you list description factually wrong (what is the start of all this) and you chose to brush over that so
". I won because I already stated everything I need to win. " lol we got a fucking lawyer in dis bitch |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I think also your vantage point is one that is telling how reality currently is based off the advantages the people in power have and my vantage point is telling how it should be based off the laws that were passed. I'm not aware of laws that you shared that would contribute to your point. I'm aware of the laws I provided though and I did provide them already... |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | "Legalize drugs and murder"
Legalize drugs I agree with. To those who partake in it, be ready to face any consequences if you mess up or act stupid similarly to alcohol.
Legalize murder? Debatable and a bit disturbing, but I can see that as a possibility. I guess legalize all crime if that's the case but still have consequences for it. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @storm rarely smoke pot these days holds me back too much really only do it on special occasion with the homies or if im on other shit that overpower the herb but id love to share some beers with ya
@rogue haha thanks dude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | lmao stryke |
Futures
09.21.16 | Legalize murder? Debatable and a bit disturbing, but I can see that as a possibility. I guess legalize all crime if that's the case but still have consequences for it.
the fuck |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | Legalizing hard drugs is most certainly not a good idea for a multitude of reasons i cant really be bothered going into |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | Legalize Drugs and Murder is an Electric Wizard album. I don't really think murder should be legal. |
Futures
09.21.16 | Legalizing hard drugs is most certainly not a good idea for a multitude of reasons i cant really be bothered going into
you are stupider than i thought and i already thought you were pretty fucking stupid |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "I think also your vantage point is one that is telling how reality currently is based off the advantages the people in power"
plz dont tell me this is a tie in for a white privilege argument lol and yes police have slightly more power then us its just how it works and with power comes the unfortunate truth of people beneath it having to cooperate. if your boss asks to get him a coffee dont bitch and just get the coffee if you want to one day be able to ask someone for coffee |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | I don't morally agree with murder so I personally wouldn't legalize it. Legalizing it may as well be a promotion that it's ok to kill. |
Futures
09.21.16 | uh no fucking shit dude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | Futures I don't think he was serious I think he was being a funny guy |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | I think most of us would agree that murdering someone is a not nice thing to do |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "Legalizing hard drugs is most certainly not a good idea for a multitude of reasons i cant really be bothered going into"
good im not ready to get into another one of these anyways, the previous one has run its course |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | "I guess legalize all crime if that's the case but still have consequences for it."
To avoid confusion, that wasn't a proposal. |
ZippaThaRippa
09.21.16 | What have I done. I didn't mean for any of this to happen |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Storm sarcastic? Yes. Funny? no. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Zippa You're fine. This thread is certainly interesting. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | I would support the murder of someone who deserves to get murdered. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "plz dont tell me this is a tie in for a white privilege argument lol and yes police have slightly more power then us its just how it works and with power comes the unfortunate truth of people beneath it having to cooperate. if your boss asks to get him a coffee dont bitch and just get the coffee if you want to one day be able to ask someone for coffee"
Please take everything in that quote and throw it out of what you think I am saying because I don't know where you got any of that. Except for the police having more power. No, they don't. In a democracy or a republic that is not how it is supposed to be. All the people have the power. Do you know the constitution? Then you should know the point I am making. |
Futures
09.21.16 | I would support the murder of someone who deserves to get murdered.
so the death penalty? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Din din din din din we have a winner. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Maco That is true. Either that or spending the rest of their life in grief and misery for what they've done. |
Futures
09.21.16 | i don't support the state murdering anybody. way too many mistakes, expensive etc |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | Not the state, maybe a mafia killing or something. They're usually accurate. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | If only the death penalty was restored. Perhaps the sewer I live in would be a better and more comfortable place. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | @storm i was just worried you were gonna go that route. you never know these days |
Artuma
09.21.16 | yeah mafia is the answer for these problems good thinking mike |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I wouldn't make all drugs legal but I would decriminalize everything and treat drug use as a medical issue. I would make people proven on meth/heroin to go into rehab and receive required drug tests and sponsors of different kinds when they are out. I would reschedule the entire structure and classification. Black market cocaine is fucking deadly and devastating because of things that aren't cocaine that gets added to it in the black market. Any solution that decreases the amount of deadliness in cocaine is worth talking about. |
Futures
09.21.16 | i want to kick anybody in the teeth for mentioning white privilege or cultural appropriation or any of that bullshit |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Artuma Not that I support the mafia or anything........
*creeps away slowly |
Futures
09.21.16 | exactly storm. at least you're right on that |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | I guess once pot is fully legalized, other drugs will soon follow. |
Artuma
09.21.16 | "If only the death penalty was restored. Perhaps the sewer I live in would be a better and more comfortable place."
yeah when the state can decide to fucking murder you and then realize 'oops he was innocent'. let's not go back to the middle ages ok? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | I would do a Singapore. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | Maybe instead of death penalty by the state, we can propose the exodus attack. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | Idk futures I've felt schizophrenic this whole argument with spaceman so I'm not even sure what points I made and how it all progressed and whether I even understand what he thinks I was saying. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "I guess once pot is fully legalized, other drugs will soon follow."
no come on man |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | No that I'm an advocate for it, but you never know. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | before this thread started I had already spent 24 hours talking with and arguing with people in my city so I was already overwhelmed. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | We can all agree that it is extremely hard and the rules ridiculous to become a citizen of the United States though right? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | "let's not go back to the middle ages ok?"
Yeah instead, let's go ahead to a world (my world) where crime can't be punished, and everybody can do whatever the fuck they want without any kind of law. |
Futures
09.21.16 | We can all agree that it is extremely hard and the rules ridiculous to become a citizen of the United States though right?
obviously |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.21.16 | @Storm I hope the overwhelming feelings will die down for you bud. Try not to sleep on it too much. I'll detach myself from here since I'm off to bed anyhow. Have a pleasant night everyone (try to at least). |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "obviously"
pff... wish I lived where you do |
Futures
09.21.16 | i live in the us huh lol |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I KNOW THAT FUTURES LOL |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I'll trade you Oklahoma for a month wherever you are |
Artuma
09.21.16 | "Yeah instead, let's go ahead to a world (my world) where crime can't be punished, and everybody can do whatever the fuck they want without any kind of law."
so law = the right to kill? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | strict law to put it better for you |
Futures
09.21.16 | oh lol used to be in wisconsin now in cali but prob moving back soon. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | wisconsin is home to the goat NFL franchise so |
Artuma
09.21.16 | @maco i'm not sure if you're being serious but look, that's not 'going ahead', that's going to the stone age |
Maco097
09.21.16 | People said the same bullshit when Singapore implemented his crime policies, and now look at them. One of the safest countries in the world at least from what I read. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | @futures We live in completely different realities whether or not Cali or Wisconsin is in the same country as Oklahoma. |
Futures
09.21.16 | lol |
Artuma
09.21.16 | singapore has a total area of 200 something square miles and 5 million people in there which is a shit ton easier to control than a, say, country with an area of 200,000 something square miles and 100 million people in there. singapore's crime policy is horrible and i would never wanna live there but it practically works because we're talking about such a tiny country |
Futures
09.21.16 | is that the country where they execute people who use drugs? |
Artuma
09.21.16 | yeah |
Futures
09.21.16 | holy shit |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | that is authoritarian as fuck lol idk never heard of people getting executed for drugs |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Check the Philippines out then |
Maco097
09.21.16 | I'm checking the Philippines, it's too soon to talk about it since the policy was recently implemented. I will just wait and see until something changes there. Who knows. I'm thinking that it might work. |
Artuma
09.21.16 | developing countries are a totally different case |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "More than 700 suspected drug users or dealers have been killed by police or vigilantes in the Philippines in less than three months, say human rights campaigners, who are calling on the UN to denounce the violence."
You think this might work? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Yeah |
Maco097
09.21.16 | It's basically a war against drugs, crime and corruption. And unfortunately, in a war there's always collateral damage. |
Artuma
09.21.16 | you are absolutely sick maco |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "Nobody can claim to be surprised. The carnage is exactly what Duterte promised. “All of you who are into drugs, you sons of bitches, I will really kill you,” he said before his election, in April. A month later, when he was President-elect, Duterte offered medals and cash rewards for citizens that shot dealers dead.
“Do your duty, and if in the process you kill 1,000 persons because you were doing your duty, I will protect you,” he told police officers on July 1, the day after his inauguration. He was speaking at a ceremony installing dela Rosa, his loyal henchman, as the nation’s top cop.
“If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful,” he was quoted as saying to another crowd that day."
Just to be clear, this action, against people putting drugs into their own bodies, you think this is the way to go? |
Maco097
09.21.16 | "You are sick"
When you live in a sick world, it's inevitable to get infected. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Maco does drugs guys, I'm going to kill him now without proof or trial, it's a sick world after all. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Understandable, it's a war after all. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "I loved when Bush came out and said, 'We are losing the war against drugs.' You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it." |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | what country do you live in maco |
Futures
09.21.16 | maco fuck you actually |
Artuma
09.21.16 | call me naïve but killing someone should never be justified (euthanasia is a different case). who would like to live in a country where making one mistake can lead to someone legally murdering you? |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | lol, good answer Maco, at least I know not to waste my time now. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Well I guess you live in developed countries, so I can understand that you're like "killin is b4d, 3very0ne des3rv3s a ch4nc3, Hum4n R1ghtzzz" |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Guys at the point he's at, it's not even worth debating. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Let's just leave it there, it's obvious that you'll never get it. |
heck
09.21.16 | I've seen some people profess some pretty shitty and fucked up beliefs on Sput before but I think Maco just outdid them all
although it's actually hard to take seriously since he's coming off as such an edgelord in the process |
Maco097
09.21.16 | You call me edgelord but I ain't a nazi. lol |
heck
09.21.16 | I never called you a nazi but thanks for clearing that up I guess |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | edgelord = Nazi? wut |
Maco097
09.21.16 | "I never called you a nazi but thanks for clearing that up I guess"
Yeah, probably you were thinking I was one. Considering that my ideals are the strong opposite of what you think. |
RogueNine
09.21.16 | Maco, where you from m8? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | we don't know what your ideals are yet I was actually waiting for you to say but you said you didn't want to debate |
Maco097
09.21.16 | "edgelord = Nazi? wut"
Don't tell me that's the definition I found. |
heck
09.21.16 | mind-reading's not your strong suit mate, stick to being an edgelord |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | I asked him already and he wouldn't answer rogue |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Well that's why I used the word "probably" derp. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | And since you are interested in knowing where I come from...
I live in Perú, lost some family members quiet some time ago during the time of terrorism. Fortunately that age ended when somebody had the guts to exterminate them all, Many people died, including innocent civilians, but it was a war, there was no other choice. We lived in a time of peace for quiet some time. Since 2010 crime was raising once again to worrying levels. Our last president was a complete tool with no guts to act against crime, and for that we are once again in danger, we ain't safe once again. |
RogueNine
09.21.16 | I gotcha. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | So again, what the fuck could you know? You, who live in developed countries and have no idea how it feels to wake up every morning begging to not get killed by a junkie or a terrorist because you never had that fucking problem. Nothing. |
RogueNine
09.21.16 | Geez man, just asked a question. No need to get defensive. |
Maco097
09.21.16 | It was not pointed directly to you. |
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | this is awful but im curious as to why he was walking back to his car....if it was because he wasnt following orders and was possibly reaching for something in his car that's pretty suspicious imo. but if the cops ordered him to go to his car knowing that there would be limited evidence, this is straight up murder. dont be too quick to judge about this case in particular, but overall i completely agree with you, the racial tensions related to police in this country have gotten sickening. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Maco that does sound awful, and you're correct that I have no idea what that's like, but surely you could entertain the idea that the solution to violence and death is not more violence and death right? Especially when the cost is innocent people, and particularly in the case of the Phillipines, when the target includes drug addicts who are affecting their own bodies due to a dependency. |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | wait i get being unreasonably hard on drug dealers, but u hate junkies too? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | Chicago had a murder rate of 18.5 civilians per 100,000 in 2015
Peru had a murder rate of 9.6 civilians per 100,000 in 2012 |
Maco097
09.21.16 | So you are comparing a state with a whole country. Makes sense. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | sorry about what happened to you and yours but things are awful in almost every country. other countries are far more advanced and better off but you need to understand 3rd world and 1st world countries is a social construct much like all other social constructs designed only to divide people and only to ever serve a negative purpose. we are all human. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | well you generalized how no one can understand what you're going through so you directed the conversation this way |
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | dont be too hard to bash on Maco peeps. perspective is everything, even though he is wrong in saying that making the death penalty legal equates to less violence. i would call him short sighted maybe, but the craziest opinion on sput? cmon there are crazier opinions than making the death penalty legal lmao |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | i thought he was in favor of a kill on sight policy towards people involved with drugs aimed at the police and at vigilantes
that's a bit different than wanting a death penalty for someone convicted of a capital offense with the opportunity to appeal |
Futures
09.21.16 | perspective is key but it doesn't make him less of a fascist |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Not entirely disagreeing but civilians given permission to kill is a bit more extrememe than the death penalty |
heck
09.21.16 | he was in favor of a kill on sight policy towards people involved with drugs aimed at the police and at vigilantes [2]
even I support the death penalty in certain situations, he's just straight-up suggesting people send death squads to execute addicts
|
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | if so he's a bit more shortsighted than I thought but it still doesnt take away from my main point |
SitruK6
09.21.16 | I just wanna take this time to say that i love all of you homies |
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | sorry I just got here guys and skimmed lol |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Yeah it might be my fault, we are not so different in certain aspects. But only some. I remember my father sending me photos he took when he was in Seattle and Portland. I remember how different it looked compared to the city I live in. What I'm trying to say is that the culture you have in the US and other countries is radically different from mine and it's the main reason it's so hard to deal with our problems. We don't know about a solution that doesn't require violence. |
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | "we dont know about a solution that doesnt require violence"
hmm |
Maco097
09.21.16 | That actually works... |
Maco097
09.21.16 | While I sometimes feel bad for drug addicts, because, after all they are sick. I can't deny that they are still a threat for me and my family, the chances to get violent are higher when you are under the influence of drugs. If they are capable to get some help and recover then good for them, but truth be told very few times that help shows up. |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | motherfucker you trippin |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Truth be told when I mentioned war against drugs I was talking about drug trafickers |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | if ur talking about a no holds barred due-processless crackdown on known drug dealers and their affiliates in a country with already a shit ton of corruption in the police department as is, then im all about that
just leave the junkies alone :( |
Maco097
09.21.16 | Yeah, that's it. I don't know why you mentioned junkies before. Guess I wasn't clear. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | if you have a problem with drug trafickers the most effective way to stop that is thru legalization |
Conmaniac
09.21.16 | yeah idk maco youre losing me here with your logic. maybe do a little more research on this topic before making bold claims like the ones you are making right now |
Maco097
09.21.16 | All I'm saying is based on my personal experience with drug addicts. Maybe I can do a little more research. But relax, I'm not as cold as the Arghoslent dude who thinks they should just die. |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | "More than 700 suspected drug users or dealers have been killed by police or vigilantes in the Philippines in less than three months, say human rights campaigners, who are calling on the UN to denounce the violence."
when you said this might work, i inferred that you meant vigilantes and police killing drug users was okay. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Not legalization spaceman, de-criminalization |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | yeah legalization is bad but I think spaceman supports legalization not decriminalization |
smaugman
09.21.16 | americans are so obcessed with their second amendment, and cant see that there is so much violence is because of the accessability of guns |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | holy fuck no I must resist |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Well, weed really should be legalized but that's about it. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | That's a whole other can of worms Smaug |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | yea i support legalization but the arguments for decriminalization are fine too |
Futures
09.21.16 | americans are so obcessed with their second amendment, and cant see that there is so much violence is because of the accessability of guns
jesus christ |
smaugman
09.21.16 | what u mean scuro |
smaugman
09.21.16 | futures can't look to europe 10/10 |
Futures
09.21.16 | no wonder you got voted worst user like 20 times 10/10 |
Typhoon24
09.21.16 | futures u missed the chance to say Europe should look to the futures |
Futures
09.21.16 | damn |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | this was prolly the worst shooting of them all
the punk ass in the chopper who remarked "ooh that looks a bad one" really cheesed me |
smaugman
09.21.16 | futures you're just awful |
Futures
09.21.16 | who are you |
user
09.21.16 | smaugman |
Futures
09.21.16 | hmmm |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | @Smaug Just that there's so many interconnected issues |
smaugman
09.21.16 | ok but if you break it down, i think it's pretty clear that because there are so many guns in circulation, more violence occur |
Futures
09.21.16 | nothing to do with population agreed |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | crazy how a terrorist who injured 30 ppl and planned to detonate bombs in 3 places was captured alive after a shootout with police where he even injured 1 officer, but a black man with a stalled car gets shot with his hands up in the middle of an empty highway
the sheer terror in that lady's voice when she yelled shots fired, u would think she came up against freddie kreuger or some shit. wtf we gotta do, bleach our skin so we dont get slaughtered in broad daylight? |
smaugman
09.21.16 | and what do you mean exactly by that futures? |
smaugman
09.21.16 | key u black? |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | yes |
Nocturnalize
09.21.16 | fuck the police |
smaugman
09.21.16 | bleach your skin |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | sammy sosa was onto something |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | is Sammy sosa even alive |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Guns all over the place, a militarised police force, drugs, a culture of victimhood, paranoia and fear in which the police are seen as 'the bad guys'
Countries fucked. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | he's living out the rest of his life as a ghostly pale mafia boss looking mf |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | meanwhile, a disabled dude was just shot by police while reading in his car in north carolina |
smaugman
09.21.16 | the police needs batons : ) |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | I mean that case is indefensible from what I saw and all the officers who are involved need to be put in jail from what I can see, but the race-hysteria in your country is out of control. And you guys are not helping. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | I'm not racist, I hate all the minorities the same |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | jokes in poor taste aside... ed, are you saying we have an obvious racism issue to fix or that we're too caught up in debating racist oppression? just curious to know the opinion of someone looking from the sidelines |
Futures
09.21.16 | it's more of a police brutality issue which is rooted in the drug war which does have racial bias. also affects poorer communities more. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | ppl too busy being in outrage over a footballer who decided to not stand for the anthem in protest than the actual issue he's protesting |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” - John Ehlrichman, Richard Nixon's aide
~50 years later and this seems to have worked a charm |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | im gonna be honest, the reactions of people hating on anyone who complained about kaepernick are way more abundant, at least from what ive seen. so it at least seems the majority defend him. and you can also think he was disrespectful and also agree with where he stands (wow poor wording there). plus if there were no negative reactions, then its not really a protest or a move meant to illicit a point thru controversy |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | thats an interesting point keydude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | If Trump wins I wonder what little small everyday things Obama would be doing before he leaves office and what big announcements he would make. I can't even begin to imagine the Farewell Address if Trump wins. If he wins I legitimately may throw up and pass out the second it is official. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "it's more of a police brutality issue which is rooted in the drug war which does have racial bias. also affects poorer communities more."
ilu |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Let people know there are real issues for why they find themselves in a particular environment. Inform them that they are victims of circumstance and their situation is one that is largely effected by skin colour and it is their skin colour that is keeping them from what they want to do and it is their skin colour that they are targeted and it is their skin colour why they are ignored and it is because of their skin colour that they find themselves a victim.
Their skin colour gives them no hope. Always state skin colour.
|
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | imo obama has contributed some in creating tensions and a racial divide, certainty not at trump's level though |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | "imo obama has contributed some in creating tensions and a racial divide,"
please explain |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | damn storm im not ready for this lol if I do will you be civil and just say I agree or disagree? i dont want an arguement |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "Ed, are you saying we have an obvious racism issue to fix or that we're too caught up in debating racist oppression? just curious to know the opinion of someone looking from the sidelines"
I think the racial component of the police brutality problem is blown WAY out of proportion. I think there certainly are racist cops but the idea that police brutality is only directed towards black people is insanity.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
787 people have been killed by the police in the USA in 2016. 383 of those have been white, 193 black and 130 Hispanic. 122 of them have been unarmed. 65 of them have been white, 33 of them black. Ask yourself honestly, how many stories of unarmed white people being shot by the police have you seen in the last 48 months? How many people about unarmed black people being shot? Why is the answer very little to zero for white people and a couple dozens for black people? How is a black cop who shoots a black criminial (justified or unjustified) a justification for racially charged riots?
Now it is true that Blacks and Hispanics are affected disproportionally by police brutality when you compare it to the number of blacks/hispanics living in the United States of America. I'm not denying that there may be cases where racial bias and even open racism are part of this. From what I can see as a german, especially the southern states have huge pockets of racist people and some of them are bound to end up in the police department. But still, you can't close your eyes to the fact that Black people in the United States have are also disproportionally criminal and are involved in way more violent crimes. Therefore they are running into more altercations with the police. I think therein lies the real root of the problem. Black people in the USA are disproportionally uneducated, poor and that results in them disproportionally turning to crime. The reasons for that are the real issue and imo the real debate that needs to be had. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | I agree Ed 100% |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | You can come up with any number of social reasons why a 'ghetto culture' exists but the people who get swept up into that mob mentality and became a part of the lifestyle are just cunts. Absolute bottom rung cunts, there is no excuse for it. |
Futures
09.21.16 | storm i don't want to speak for space but it's probably because obama hasn't done shit especially about the drug war in fact he's expanded it. |
Futures
09.21.16 | yeah ed exactly what i was saying well said |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "You can come up with any number of social reasons why a 'ghetto culture' exists but the people who get swept up into that mob mentality and became a part of the lifestyle are just cunts. Absolute bottom rung cunts, there is no excuse for it."
Disagreed tbh. Our actions are a combination of our genes and our environmental influences. It's only natural that the majority of people will act according to the way people behave around them. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "You can come up with any number of social reasons why a 'ghetto culture' exists but the people who get swept up into that mob mentality and became a part of the lifestyle are just cunts. Absolute bottom rung cunts, there is no excuse for it."
i grew up in the hood and trust me, it's incredibly difficult to a.) resist the lure of the streets and b.) get out of that lifestyle once ur in it. it's easy to pass judgement on ppl from ur comfort of some london suburb across the pond |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | yea futures you're mostly right, it bothers me that he proffessed so much to help race relations in his 1st campaign and hasn't done much of anything to fix what is the almost unanimously agreed to be the highest racial divide this country has seen in many presidential terms. but there are also examples of him deliberately saying things without proof that pretty much just fan a fire rather then tackle an issue politically |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Bollocks.
If that were the case everybody male and female from 10-80 would be part of the 'lifestyle'
It's now a genetic issue to fall into a lifestyle choice and act like a total cunt is it?
You're a part of the problem ed dude. |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | The 'lure of the streets'
Fuck off. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | " From what I can see as a german, especially the southern states have huge pockets of racist people and some of them are bound to end up in the police department. But still, you can't close your eyes to the fact that Black people in the United States have are also disproportionally criminal and are involved in way more violent crimes. Therefore they are running into more altercations with the police."
how many of the recent high profile shootings were violent criminals? it's not even just about the numbers and proportions, even though that's a good indication
u got 12 year olds being gunned down at the park in 2 seconds flat. the dude from yesterday was called "a bad one" by the cop in the helicopter with literally nothing to go by other than his skin color and was shot down by his colleague within seconds |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "If that were the case everybody male and female from 10-80 would be part of the 'lifestyle'
It's now a genetic issue to fall into a lifestyle choice and act like a total cunt is it?"
Dude, you're not even connecting with what I'm saying. People, throughout history have been behaving according to their environment. There are certainly exceptions, there is that super bright kid that was born into a poor family but kept his head down in school and made it to the top, because the right combination of intelligence (genes) and probably some support by good teachers, supportive friends or parents (environment) enabled it.
However, for every super smart kid who made it, there are dozens who are somewhere between super bright and super retarded who COULD have made it in a better environment and they didn't. Your argument seems to be based on a notion of free will hat denies the influence of environmental pressures which tbh is completely bogus. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | u have no idea what that life is like so hop the fuck off ur high horse zak |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "how many of the recent high profile shootings were violent criminals? it's not even just about the numbers and proportions, even though that's a good indication."
It IS about numbers and proportions. Everything else is pretty much worthless when your talking about wanting to make systematic changes, because the need for a systematic change has to be backed up by a systematic problem which can only be demonstrated by numbers and proportions. Everything else is anecdotal and subjective af.
How do you know there are NO white kids being shot? You don't. In fact 3 white kids under 18 have been shot in 2016. 1 black kid has been shot.
"u got 12 year olds being gunned down at the park in 2 seconds flat. the dude from yesterday was called "a bad one" by the cop in the helicopter with literally nothing to go by other than his skin color and was shot down by his colleague within seconds"
Yeah and I bet you millions of dollars that there are cases within the 383 white people have been shot that are just as outrageous. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "how many of the recent high profile shootings were violent criminals? it's not even just about the numbers and proportions, even though that's a good indication
u got 12 year olds being gunned down at the park in 2 seconds flat. the dude from yesterday was called "a bad one" by the cop in the helicopter with literally nothing to go by other than his skin color and was shot down by his colleague within seconds"
yes and thats all amounts of fucked up, but you also have more 12 y.o dying from people within their communities then from the racist cops by a huge amount more. the issue isnt just one of our police force, its the way the black community is being separated further and further from the rest of america through economic and social reasons, which is not good. I'm just offering my views here though, I'm not trying to blame anyone nor deny what you're saying |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | I have no idea what life is like?
My cousin has one arm after it was blown off by a shotgun as a result of drugs, prison and someone being 'a grass' in the 80s
That is the truth. And the truth remains he's a cunt. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | i didnt say no white ppl are being shot, i mean u quoted the numbers so it's right there. i'm saying the excuse that it's because black people are disproportionately criminal doesnt fly because in most if not all of these high profile cases there was no criminality involved
u wanna talk proportions, white ppl make up 77% of the population but only 48% of the police shootings. if u think the police dont disproportionately fuck with black people more than anyone else regardless of if they're criminal or not then you're just wrong |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "u wanna talk proportions, white ppl make up 77% of the population but only 48% of the police shootings. "
a statistic doesnt always prove causation. male to female populations is practically 50-50, but an overwhelming majority of prison inmates are male. you wouldnt say that suggests that laws and prisons are sexist |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | im not sure if yall know about the Stop and Frisk policy in new york where literally 90% of those stopped and frisked by the cops are black or latino. it doesnt matter where u are, the police can stop u for no reason and if you're black or latino, ur 10x as much likely to be fucked with than if u were white |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "a statistic doesnt always prove causation. male to female populations is practically 50-50, but an overwhelming majority of prison inmates are male. you wouldnt say that suggests that laws and prisons are sexist"
i agree, im just saying to Ed that if it's solely down to statistics and proportions...then those are the stats |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "statistic doesnt always prove causation. male to female populations is practically 50-50, but an overwhelming majority of prison inmates are male. you wouldnt say that suggests that laws and prisons are sexist"
Wouldn't you? |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "u wanna talk proportions, white ppl make up 77% of the population but only 48% of the police shootings. if u think the police dont disproportionately fuck with black people more than anyone else regardless of if they're criminal or not then you're just wrong"
What do you mean REGARDLESS of if they are criminal? That is the only qualifier for being "fucked with" by the police, that matters. If you're criminal, the police should fuck with you. Here are proportions:
In 2011, black people committed: 49 % of murders and manslaughters, 55 % of the robberys, 32 % of rapes and a staggering 38% of violent crimes in total.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
Obviously they are going to run into the police more often and overall more violent altercations with the cops are inevitable.
"I'm saying the excuse that it's because black people are disproportionately criminal doesnt fly because in most if not all of these high profile cases there was no criminality involved"
The high profile cases are high profile because the support a certain narrative. Most of them were egregious cases of police brutality, agreed. But they make up only a tiny sliver of the total numbers. And there are no "high profile case" of police shooting white people. Now, is it more likely that this is because white people are only shot when it's justified (even the 3 kids under 18 were justified??) OR is there are certain narrative being spun here? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "yes and thats all amounts of fucked up, but you also have more 12 y.o dying from people within their communities then from the racist cops by a huge amount more. the issue isnt just one of our police force, its the way the black community is being separated further and further from the rest of america through economic and social reasons, which is not good. I'm just offering my views here though, I'm not trying to blame anyone nor deny what you're saying"
nah i hear u man, but the police issue is a separate issue (although there's some overlap obviously) than the economic issues. these people are paid to serve and protect and when they fail to do that are somehow above the law and arent put to justice |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | Again I'm not saying there are NO problems with racism and I agree that Stop and Frisk is probably just a dumb idea that mostly just stokes tensions and ill-will towards the police instead of really doing anything against criminals. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "im not sure if yall know about the Stop and Frisk policy in new york where literally 90% of those stopped and frisked by the cops are black or latino. it doesnt matter where u are, the police can stop u for no reason and if you're black or latino, ur 10x as much likely to be fucked with than if u were white"
well thats fucked up, and clearly racist. what would you suggest the best way to go about systemically changing that though? if you start making it required to frisk an even amount per race in proportion their population, that would obviously slow effective protection and crime prevention. if theres a good way to stop it then im all for it |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Same in London with 'stop and search' but the fact is people arrested, charged and convicted of knife point robberies are disproportionately black.
There was a clamp down on stop and search as it was becoming a racial thing and knife crime went through the roof. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "im not sure if yall know about the Stop and Frisk policy in new york where literally 90% of those stopped and frisked by the cops are black or latino. it doesnt matter where u are, the police can stop u for no reason and if you're black or latino, ur 10x as much likely to be fucked with than if u were white"
Theses kinds of laws that allow searches/harassment without solid probable cause need to go. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | also keyblade thanks for being cool with your responses. its always nice to hear opposing arguments from someone who is competent at responding intelligently while also being civil about the disagreement. only way to learn from both sides |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Yeah he is cool apart from the most personal sweeping statement of all time. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "What do you mean REGARDLESS of if they are criminal? That is the only qualifier for being "fucked with" by the police, that matters. If you're criminal, the police should fuck with you. Here are proportions:"
please point me to what criminal activities terrence crutcher, keith lamont, philando castille or tamir rice were participating in
my point is that the police fuck with u even if ur not participating in criminal activities. do u know how many times i've been stopped and fucked around with by the cops while minding my own business? pretty sure it's orders of magnitude more than any white person in this thread
when i get stopped on the road, i gotta make sure i got all my documents and shit in check and be hella polite or i know im in for a rough ride. remember Dave Chappelle's joke about his white friend being pulled over? it probably isn't that far from being the truth
this is something that black people were talking about for decades but were never heard. it isn't a narrative being spun, it's just an issue that has come to light with the rise of social media. this shit has always been happening, only difference now is that we have hd camera phones that can stream it live on fb and ppl are like "see, this the shit we've been talking about. can we do something about it now?" |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | from the article where i found that disturbing Nixon quote, the dude with the top comment posted some real shit that really sums up more succinctly what ive been trying to say
""History always validates what black people have said for decades & often dismissed as "whining" and "making excuses"....from people who need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." We knew Nixon a racist. We said the same government that was enacting draconian anti-drug policies and attached black & brown faces to the "epidemic" was the same government bringing in shipments and guns to the inner cities. It was dismissed and later verified. Drug dealers said on record they'd worked with gov't agents. They were discredited and later proven correct.
~Black people said they were targeted, harassed and abused by police. They were dismissed...Now we have weekly videos of black children & unarmed men & women being killed with impunity and inconsistent incident reports.~
We said we received harsher sentences and were disproportionately targeted by police...Studies show that not only is that a fact BUT that whites are as likely or more so to possess & use drugs. We said we're discriminated against in the job market...Studies show a white felon is 2x's as likely to get a job over a black college grad. we said we were being discriminated against in the housing market...Come to find out the FHA, banks, and white towns colluded in a practice called Redlining for decades...We also said slavery & Jim Crow were unjust for literally hundreds of years!
...Maybe ONCE in this country's history we'll actually get the benefit of the doubt and listened to BEFORE hundreds of billions are wasted to "discover" what we've always known..." |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "Please point me to what criminal activities terrence crutcher, keith lamont, philando castille or tamir rice were participating in"
I can only say the same thing again: Most of them (speaking about the high profile cases) were egregious cases of police brutality, agreed. But they make up only a tiny sliver (and are therefore not really as relevant as some people make them out to be) of the total numbers. And there are no "high profile case" of police shooting white people. (By that I mean: Cases that are circulated in the media right now)
"my point is that the police fuck with u even if ur not participating in criminal activities. do u know how many times i've been stopped and fucked around with by the cops while minding my own business? pretty sure it's orders of magnitude more than any white person in this thread
when i get stopped on the road, i gotta make sure i got all my documents and shit in check and be hella polite or i know im in for a rough ride. remember Dave Chappelle's joke about his white friend being pulled over? it probably isn't that far from being the truth"
Okay, that is not the same thing as people being murdered by police officers. We also stopped talking about numbers and are now strictly talking about personal experience. Now, I'm not from the USA so I can't really add my personal experience to this in any meaningful way.
But don't you think that a black kid from a nice neighborhood in a suit is way less likely to be stopped and "fucked with" by the police than a white guy in the Bronx who dresses like the stereotypical image of a hustler? And if you agree with me on this, isn't the problem than that a disproprotional number of black people are poor, uneducated and are therefore being targeted by the police. (The police has ALWAYS been the arm of the establishment to hold down the disenfranchised)
Wouldn't it bee more reasonable then, to tackle problems like: "Why are black people in america poor, less educated and more likely to become criminal?" (hint: The answer is NOT: Black people are inherently less smart, industrious or valuable) |
p4p
09.21.16 | open and shut case johnson! |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Some really cool and interesting points throughout this thread, and it's been really civil too. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.21.16 | My high school friend wore a wire offering me ten pounds of reggie. I said no. My roommate didn't. Bad ending. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | "We said we received harsher sentences and were disproportionately targeted by police."
agree with the both. unjust harsher sentences need to be completely changed and whites need to stop getting off the hook for their bullshit. but in regards to blacks being targeted more heavily, its just as much to do with the fact that blacks are much more likely to commit violent crime then whites as it does racial stereotyping. both of these are issues that need to be addressed.
"Studies show that not only is that a fact BUT that whites are as likely or more so to possess & use drugs"
i can agree with this, drugs are a problem that can affect anyone.
"Studies show a white felon is 2x's as likely to get a job over a black college grad."
thats absurd and I strongly disagree with this, what studies are suggesting that? all the studies i've seen + personal experience shows that black graduates have a significant advantage over whites at the same qualifications when it comes to the job market, let alone when compared to white convicted felons
"Come to find out the FHA, banks, and white towns colluded in a practice called Redlining for decades"
interesting, will look into this. I'm sure its an issue im not aware of
"We also said slavery & Jim Crow were unjust for literally hundreds of years!"
well yeah that was fucked up beyond all belief and no one is gonna disagree with you there, but I get how that ties into your arguement |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "I can only say the same thing again: Most of them (speaking about the high profile cases) were egregious cases of police brutality, agreed. But they make up only a tiny sliver (and are therefore not really as relevant as some people make them out to be) of the total numbers."
are there any stats for that? i'd imagine for unarmed individuals since that's what we're talking about, even if they were engaged in criminality (like the horrible crime of possessing marijuana for example) it likely wouldnt be the kind of crime to justify the use of a firearm to subdue them i would say so that's kind of a moot point
"And there are no "high profile case" of police shooting white people. (By that I mean: Cases that are circulated in the media right now)"
that's because it's not a disproportionate issue for white people. there havent been, at least to my knowledge 12 year olds who were murdered in the playground. pretty sure that type of case would be high profile regardless of who the victim was
"Okay, that is not the same thing as people being murdered by police officers. We also stopped talking about numbers and are now strictly talking about personal experience. Now, I'm not from the USA so I can't really add my personal experience to this in any meaningful way. "
yea it's not the same as being murdered, but that's how these altercations start. obviously you're more likely to end up dead if ur also more likely to be harassed by the police, no? i'm from canada and it's much more mild up there with this kind of thing, so u can imagine how bad it is in the states
"But don't you think that a black kid from a nice neighborhood in a suit is way less likely to be stopped and "fucked with" by the police than a white guy in the Bronx who dresses like the stereotypical image of a hustler?"
nah man it's not about how they dress or anything like that. simply being young and black is enough as all of these recent cases prove. "he looks like a bad one" is still ringing in my head, and it's awful. just the fact that ur black is enough to arouse suspicion which can lead to deadly results and it's not right. the cops cant tell how ur dressed when ur in ur car, all they can see is ur head
"Wouldn't it bee more reasonable then, to tackle problems like: "Why are black people in america poor, less educated and more likely to become criminal?" (hint: The answer is NOT: Black people are inherently less smart, industrious or valuable)"
definitely, and i posted a big clue as to why earlier. it's one thing tackling these issues, but something needs to be done about the clear biases in the legal system that are above everything, deadly |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "thats absurd and I strongly disagree with this, what studies are suggesting that? all the studies i've seen + personal experience shows that black graduates have a significant advantage over whites at the same qualifications when it comes to the job market, let alone when compared to white convicted felons"
multiple studies were done with resumes sent out with both stereotypical black and white names with identical qualifications. the white resumes had 50% more call-backs and interviews on average iirc |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | more believable, but no one in their right mind would put record of a felony on a resume so that doesnt really defend the magnitude of the original claim. theres also major intensives in place to hire and promote minorities. I work for an aerospace firm and half the management board is black or indian, and more then half are women despite there being a significant more white male business/engineering graduates... granted this is also just my personal experience |
iloveyouall
09.21.16 | suck on my anecdote |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | again not denying most of your other points, just that one in particular, especially when it impacts me directly in the opposite way |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | sach, key and many other ppl here used a few anecdotes too no need to call mine out |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Positive discrimination. Complete nonsense and it feeds the problem. |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | Yeah I've read a few articles on this overcompensation trend. It's like "see, look how inclusive we are" but really misses the point: instead of judging applicants on their skin colour/gender/whatever they should be judged on their qualifications. |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | "suck on my anecdote"
Yeah because that totally was the only anecdote in this conversation. |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Judged not by the colour of ones skin but by their character.
A good man once said something along them lines. |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | '"suck on my anecdote"
Yeah because that totally was the only anecdote in this conversation"
also made it clear in the same comment that I was aware an anecdote doesnt hold much value lol |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "more believable, but no one in their right mind would put record of a felony on a resume so that doesnt really defend the magnitude of the original claim."
i actually misread the initial quote, which is also true unfortunately. there was definitely a study that showed white applicants are twice as likely to get a job AND white felons were just as likely if not slightly better off than the average black college graduate. think the guy got his numbers mixed up, but it's still shocking |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | What have they been convicted of?
Nobody in their right mind is going to employ someone whose dishonest as fuck. Fraud, Burglary, Theft? Yeah work in a bank pal, I believe in second chances, hugs all round.
|
eliminatorjunior
09.21.16 | fuck cops and fuck BLM thats how i feel
|
Keyblade
09.21.16 | i honestly cant believe we're even debating that there is a clear bias in the US justice system. all u got to look at is the recent Justice Department report on the Baltimore police department which clearly and very thoroughly shows how the system works. officers are literally trained to disproportionately discriminate black men. a couple of excerpts:
"In some cases, unconstitutional stops result from supervisory officers’ explicit instructions. During a ride-along with Justice Department officials, a BPD sergeant instructed a patrol officer to stop a group of young African-American males on a street corner, question them, and order them to disperse. When the patrol officer protested that he had no valid reason to stop the group, the sergeant replied “Then make something up.” This incident is far from anomalous."
"In some cases, supervisors have issued explicitly discriminatory orders, such as directing a shift to arrest “all the black hoodies” in a neighborhood."
"Equally troubling is the fact that the template contains blanks to be filled in for details of the arrest, including the arrest data and location and the suspect's name and address, but does not include a prompt to fill in the race or gender of the arrestee. Rather, the words 'black male' are automatically included in the description of the arrest."
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-findings-investigation-baltimore-police-department
or the full 163 page report here: https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download |
smaugman
09.21.16 | yea fuck the police who mostly are good people who keep criminals at bay |
RadicalEd
09.21.16 | Wow what an enlightening comment, thank you smaugman, you continue to be a beacon of wisdom in these dark times. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | it's not the individual cops who are the problem. the training they receive is clearly fucked up |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Yeah the police have their bad apples but fuck me they do a good job for the most part. Especially in the States. I take my hat off to them. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | good job doing what? they're largely corrupt, and that's on top of their heavy-handedness. ever heard of civil forfeiture? |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Dealing with the dregs of society, facing problems directly. Protective of the many while facing the dangerous few, dealing with shit day in day out, week in week out to go back home and look after their families, go out with their friends and still laugh and live and love because you know...... they are human. |
eliminatorjunior
09.21.16 | Anyone hear the new nick cave album? |
emester
09.21.16 | Every side of the argument has its own wrongdoings. Cops are scared to do their jobs now, hence how quick they are on the trigger. The past mistakes of the handful of crooked cops are now attributed to them as a whole. ffs I'd say most police are afraid to do their job, especially with the sentiment going on the communities that are unfortunately having to deal with all this shit.
These afflicted communities have every right to protest, but rather than avenge a martyr through violence they have to let their voice be heard in order to solidify peace and improvement and not demand justice by aggressive means. The fact that this keeps on occurring is mostly in part to the fact nothing is being done to prevent it in the first place.
Its a scary world we live in now and our own immediate sensationalism and negligence to the long term issues are only going keep continuing to happen. |
smaugman
09.21.16 | fuck off ed |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | ✊ I'm with ya em |
emester
09.21.16 | So basically
Fuck you if you blame all cops and cheer for their death
and
fuck you if you think black communities and individuals have only brought this upon themselves and are all willing to insight violence
the fact people only see issues in either two extremes an neglect the existence of a grey area or middle ground is so disheartening |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | incite, but again✊ I'm with ya em |
DinosaurJones
09.21.16 | There is no middle ground, that's the problem I see. Extremes everywhere, man.
Just like it's wrong for racists to dehumanize an entire culture of people, it's wrong for citizens to dehumanize every single police officer, but that's what happens. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | how hard was it not to shoot the unarmed man with his hands in the air who THEY stopped in the middle of the road? did u see how after they shot him, THREE cops stood there for minutes with their guns pointed at him as if he were some kind of flesh eating zombie that was about to jump back to life and kill them?
no help, no trying to stop the bleeding, nothing. just watched him bleed to death. saying they were too scared to do their job is a piss poor excuse frankly. the only thing they were scared of was the big scary black guy who was following all of their instructions |
TheSpaceMan
09.21.16 | i agree that situation was disgusting, esp the commentary from the pilot |
emester
09.21.16 | My comment is not talking solely about last night's incident, Key. Its no more than my personal 2 cents for this whole tragic pattern of events that occuring in the present day. Hell, i wouldnt even make any assumptions yet about specifcs as we have nill infomation. |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | What happened beforehand? what information did they have? What previous did the fella have? What was said? What psychologically was going on? What were the circumstances of using a shooter? What experience did the coppers have? What was a chopper doing up in the air?
A 1min video shows the coppers in the wrong and yeah they fucked up, the lack of first aid is inexcusable but theres a bigger picture, there always is. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | dude u need to watch the video, it is absolutely blood boiling |
ScuroFantasma
09.21.16 | "This ones complying, something's not right"
*bang* |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | lol |
DinosaurJones
09.21.16 | What bigger picture could there be though? How are they going to justify it? |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | what was said? seriously? |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Yeah as in "Fuck you pig, I aint going down for you or anybody, all I need to do is use my phone and call up my nigs and all you pigs will get your heads blown off" And such like banter. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | yea, pretty sure that didnt happen |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | So am I but you never know. Everything is consequences. |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | @Futures
(to backtrack about 200 comments) Yeah it's debatable but I feel that -while it will almost certainly never come to fruition- legalizing hard drugs like Heroin and methamphetamine would have a net negative effect on society. Ofcourse It would help mitigate crime and the prevalence of drug syndicates but I believe it would lead to an increased number of OD's, road deaths, junkies and general doll bludgers (unemployed) then there currently is. Heroin for example is incredibly hard to come by in my state and I know its anecdotal evidence but I know a few guys who admitted that they would try H if they could get their hands on it and I'm sure they're not alone in that respect. Sure they may get told the 'safe' dosages an whatnot but with the highly addictive nature of those drugs any 'safety precautions' will quickly go out the window.
FYI I know its the title of an electric wizard song but there are people ive encountered who genuinely agree with the legalization of all currently illicit substances. |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | "but there are people ive encountered who genuinely agree with the legalization of all currently illicit substances."
Yeah... me, Futures, and anyone else who's a legit libertarian agrees with this. It's not a big deal and your pearl clutching because you "know a few guys" doesn't change reality. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | i'd say im in that camp too but i'd make an exception for heroin in particular. that shit is ruinous |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Prohibition doesn't make it less ruinous though. And if you look at the racial element I think you of all people on this site would want it legalized. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | yea def, on one hand i want it legalized for that reason but on the other i've seen what it does to ppl and it's horrible |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Legalise all drugs, what could possibly go wrong? |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Alcohol does terrible shit to people and causes tons of deaths, domestic abuse, DUI bullshit, etc. Should we ban it again? |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Goddamn it Zak get outta here with your old man ass. |
smaugman
09.21.16 | legalizing hard drugs? are you on crack? |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | Forgive me but I honestly don't see how opting not to legalize one of the most addictive and destructive substances makes me some sort of close minded conservative |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | dont legalize, decriminalize like portugal tho |
smaugman
09.21.16 | "Alcohol does terrible shit to people and causes tons of deaths, domestic abuse, DUI bullshit, etc. Should we ban it again?"
terrible argument. first of all, waaaaay more people drink than do drugs. and it's much easier to control your addictions to it |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | The amount of leftys on here arguing about racial policing and prisons while supporting the drug war is fucking baffling. Y'all are confused kids. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "Forgive me but I honestly don't see how opting not to legalize one of the most addictive and destructive substances makes me some sort of close minded conservative "
if user smaugman disagrees with you chances are you are right tbh |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Chuck - why not legalize? |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "it's much easier to control your addictions to it"
?????????????????????????????????????????? |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "Chuck - why not legalize?"
small fines + requirements to attend treatment, some sort of regulation like that, i think would be most effective |
smaugman
09.21.16 | fuck it im not gonna. point is, most drugs beside marijuana do major damage |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Chuck edit your comment so it doesn't break the thread. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | def decriminalize, portugal is a great example
doubt the war on drugs would ever end in the states. it's better in canada cuz shit isnt as entrenched |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | nah i like the emphasis on smaugman being bsing dumbass itt |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Just because something does damage doesn't mean it should be illegal. That's not how you weigh pros and cons for making policy.
Chuck I disagree that you should fine people for a personal thing. It's their business not yours. If it spills over then they should have consequences for those actions but not just inherently for taking the substance. |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Yeah but please since every comment now makes me have to scroll? Pretty please? I'll stop making fun of Canada for like the rest of the week please? |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "The amount of leftys on here arguing about racial policing and prisons while supporting the drug was is fucking baffling. Y'all are confused kids."
word, as if they're not intrinsically linked. that quote about Nixon i posted earlier is really illuminating |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | But remember that you still have conflicting thoughts on heroin, haha. Gotta go all the way homie. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "Chuck I disagree that you should fine people for a personal thing. It's their business not yours. If it spills over then they should have consequences for those actions but not just inherently for taking the substance."
I get that argument but I think overall there would be a net benefit to society and to individuals if there was some sort of relatively forced treatment programs for a select few substances (opiods, meth, not sure if I'd include cocaine) |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | idk it isnt something ive given much thought to until Balls kinda went into it and i was like shit, i forgot how bad that stuff is
but portugal shows that decriminalizing at least doesnt lead to a spike in usage at all which is what i was worried about so im back on the train |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | That may be true but I place a greater emphasis on liberty than "net benefit." Authoritarianism pisses me off.
(also you mentioned fines earlier) |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | yeah i get that but then in the same token in such a society as that the health care system should then be "free" not to help them when they come in ODing or look for welfare ya dig
small fines are a minor determent that would make some reconsider and inevitably stop a few from heading down an unforseen destructive path |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Trump train 2016!!! wait... |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Yeah see that's the tradeoff if you're about that socialized medicine you have to start policing individuals because of cost.
"small fines are a minor determent that would make some reconsider and inevitably stop a few from heading down an unforseen destructive path"
Also disagree hard with this. Nobody using heroin is gonna be like "Oh shit, this small fine tho..." |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | @guitarded
We all agree alcohol is addictive and can be life ruining, a stroll through the city center is often enough proof of that but shit like Heroin is just the devils essence, it's far easier to overdose and the addiction rate is unbelievably higher than that of alcohol. I've had one older friend get hooked on it and send him on a downward spiral his still stuck in and another friends brother had a fatal OD, although he had been using for a while they believe. Point is they're the only 2 heroin user who i've personally known on some level and look at the outcome. Not to mention the purity and composition of drugs like heroin is difficult to gauge compared to something like alcohol. I don't even think it should be decriminalized they need to wipe it from existence. |
AmericanFlagAsh
09.21.16 | "there's always a huge group of idiots on all sides of an argument, dwelling on their presence prevents the discussion from reaching a higher ground"
This. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | pardon me i forget sometimes america still has an ancient backwards health care system (@ghost) |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | "Not to mention the purity and composition of drugs like heroin is difficult to gauge compared to something like alcohol."
Ask yourself why. Think about it. |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Little Timmy crawling around on the floor in a messy nappy as his parents lay strung out on the sofa with needles in their arms.
I long for the day. Humanity will truly be moving in the right direction. |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Chuck - America doesn't have what I want either. I want a negative income tax and private plans for all so don't put that on me. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | just because heroin isn't as destructive as alcohol doesn't mean alcohol isn't an destructive drug in itself. without looking up numbers the number of deaths from alcohol poisoning is probably many times higher than any other drug (besides tobacco) |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | "Trump train 2016!!! wait..."
if this was 1990 trump maybe lol. nah if i was american it would be the jill stein train, she knows whats up on this issue at least. luckily im spared that shitshow |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Yeah Zak that doesn't happen now that it's illegal. Good thing Little Timmy's parents followed that law. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | lots of little timmys cleaning up mommys puke from downing a casual 40 before "bed time" every school night too eh Z |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | I just said that cause of the word "train" haha, nothing else I fucking hate that oompa loompa. But nah Stein thinks nuclear plants are WMDs, Wifi causes cancer, GMOs are a corporate scheme to enslave us, etc. She's cray. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "negative income tax"
what is this (srs q) |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | @Ghost
Ye ofcourse i realize legalizing would ensure a uniform purity is sold but I dont think that will solve the OD issue. Either they'll sell a diluted form and a black market will develop for more pure stuff - or they will sell a high purity form, and the addictiveness of the drug and ease of access will inevitably result in just as many OD's. That's my prophecy anyway |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Chuck it's basically in lieu of compartmentalized welfare so that everyone can afford a private (open market, interstate, no mandates, etc.) plan so everyone has healthcare coverage but no state on the providing end.
If you have 15 minutes sometime I'd suggest this as the best intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM |
Sinternet
09.21.16 | stein is pretty crazy but literally all your candidates are, at least she has good intentions it seems |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "Ye ofcourse i realize legalizing would ensure a uniform purity is sold but I dont think that will solve the OD issue. Either they'll sell a diluted form and a black market will develop for more pure stuff - or they will sell a high purity form, and the addictiveness of the drug and ease of access will inevitably result in just as many OD's. That's my prophecy anyway "
"The rate of new HIV infections in Portugal has fallen precipitously since 2001, the year its law took effect, declining from 1,016 cases to only 56 in 2012. Overdose deaths decreased from 80 the year that decriminalization was enacted to only 16 in 2012. In the US, by comparison, more than 14,000 people died in 2014 from prescription opioid overdoses alone. Portugal's current drug-induced death rate, three per million residents, is more than five times lower than the European Union's average of 17.3, according to EU figures. "
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin |
smaugman
09.21.16 | if you look at the chemical effects of drugs, every single one got negative side effects, much stronger than alcohol's |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | "at least she has good intentions it seems"
The road to hell... |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "For those who have been repeatedly caught or are identified as addicts, the panels can order sanctions or treatment. Recreational users may face fines or be ordered to provide community service. If an addict refuses treatment, they are required to check in regularly with their "family doctor" — the medical professional in the person's locality that provides checkups and other services to them under Portugal's free national healthcare program. Such a close, pre-existing relationship between medical professionals and Portuguese residents is another feature of the model, and one that could be hard to replicate in a country like the US.
"If the person doesn't show up at the doctor, we ask the police to personally hand them a notification so they know they are supposed to be in a specific place," said Capaz. "The important part is to maintain the connection to the treatment system."
The role of police coordinating with health officials to ensure treatment demonstrates the altered relationship between them and drug users over the past decade and a half, and one that contrasts dramatically with how police orient themselves in countries like the US."
^the basis for my stance |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | Harmful use of alcohol results in the death of 2.5 million people annually, causes illness and injury to millions more, and increasingly affects younger generations and drinkers in developing countries.
Nearly 4% of all deaths are related to alcohol. |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Smaug you're objectively wrong on this. |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Is a functioning alcoholic in the same bracket as somebody addicted to meth?
Mental health issues, hospital admissions and care, social welfare, parentless kids. Certain issues would be exacerbated ten fold. |
Sinternet
09.21.16 | 'if you look at the chemical effects of drugs, every single one got negative side effects, much stronger than alcohol's'
dumb comment |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "Is a functioning alcoholic in the same bracket as somebody addicted to meth?"
is a functioning meth user in the same bracket as a full blown alcoholic
|
smaugman
09.21.16 | and why's that sinternet? chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't, only affects your liver in large amounts |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | "chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't "
- dr smaugman 2016 |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | when are you going to learn to read about things before making assertive statements |
smaugman
09.21.16 | ok im out |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | Chuck I answered your q btw not sure if it got lost in these posts but it might be something you think is cool or maybe not, still nice to know of it. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | yeah i saw it ill watch that vid soon im actually sort of working atm if you can believe it |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
09.21.16 | "working" |
BallsDeep
09.21.16 | @guitarded
They have sterile syringe vending machines and free clinics where I live but admittedly I haven't looked deeply into the effects of drug decriminalization in Portugal. I'm really surprised by those numbers tbh because reportedly like 1% of the population were Heroin users at the turn of the millennium, and I wouldn't have expected it to generate such a significant positive outcome. It just seems counterintuitive to me for some reason but i guess you cant argue with the stats. |
guitarded_chuck
09.21.16 | nope. just to reiterate what the article says, the system wouldn't work in the usa as is because it requires universal access to a doctor. would recommend everyone give it a read it's just a quick little vice article |
zakalwe
09.21.16 | Burn the poppy fields, knock down the factories and labs. Flush skunk and everything that has been altered and chemically messed with.
Marijuana for medicinal purposes that's ya lot. |
Keyblade
09.21.16 | yea it's a great article |
adr
09.21.16 | chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't chemical receptors in your brain get damaged or destroyed by drugs, alcohol doesn't [2] |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5UOWmvf-cs
booya |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | Thought he could get away with driving while black... smh |
evilford
09.22.16 | aw u deleted my comment |
evilford
09.22.16 | being black is a violent crime duh |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | Yea wtf |
StrikeOfTheBeast
09.22.16 | Skin color as a reason for bullshit like this makes losing faith in humanity an ideal choice. |
evilford
09.22.16 | dude put his hand thru his open window their lives were so obviously in jeopardy |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | sorry evil my bad lol |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | the window was up |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | even if his hand was in the window what they were doing was illegal in the first place because it is illegal for a cop to pull a gun on a random person and treat them like they did something |
Futures
09.22.16 | it is illegal for a cop to pull a gun on a random person and treat them like they did something
lol |
evilford
09.22.16 | all stories I've read have said his window was down. either way, not just cause for firing a bullet at a man's heart |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | futures you can act like that isn't true if you want but it is the fact of law and it is true 100%. I don't know why you laugh at that? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | yeah evil they had no cause to even be bothering him. the procedures of the law were broken when they first confronted him. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I almost doubt that you could even live in California and not know that it is a crime as a police officer to confront someone with their gun simply because they decided that they wanted to confront them. It happens all the time and police get away with breaking the law but you dismiss it as if they are following the law |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | Comes with freely carrying guns though. Surely you expect to be checked? I'd welcome it to be honest. |
Futures
09.22.16 | they thought they had probable cause dude it's not random lmao please show me an example |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | you would welcome a dictatorship nice zak you are admitting you want all regular citizens to be the bitch of someone else including yourself. good job giving in to fear mongering.
Futures that is a straight up lie to say they had probable cause in this case. That never even happened never even took place. The guy himself called 911 non-emergency to ask for help. How can I even try to offer proof when you aren't dealing with the facts that have been already presented? |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | People rioting in the streets after shootings by a militarised police force. It's more dictatorial now innit?
People have to face the responsibilities of living in a nation where firearms are so freely available and minimally controlled.
Yours is the only country in the western world who hasn't changed its gun laws as a result of shit happening. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | zak dont take away my guns they couldnt even reach you if i tried |
evilford
09.22.16 | this isn't really a gun control issue tho |
Futures
09.22.16 | zak you are so fucking stupid it hurts |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | okay but I said that thinking you realized cops already act like they can just search anybody when they can't. yes it is like a dictatorship in many ways but the laws were never changed to allow that to happen. no one in power is being held accountable. the top ten things wrong with America right now has nothing to do with gun laws or violence among regular citizens even. that's just bullshit framework set up by media and people in power. |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | I'm just rational and asking questions dude. Something yanks don't appear capable of. |
evilford
09.22.16 | "I'm just rational and asking questions dude. Something yanks don't appear capable of."
it's like the first sentence isn't even compatible with the second |
Futures
09.22.16 | you are braindead zak |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | rational and asking questions turned straight into generalizing an entire population I'm having major deja vu right now but I feel like we've been through this before with the same users or I'm repeating history. if it is the second I might kill myself |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | futures I'm not calling you a liar if that is why you haven't responded or maybe you are investigating to see if I'm right/wrong? |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | Oh yeah and taking everything literally and to heart. You lot love to do that as well. |
Futures
09.22.16 | you are a bit delusional dude on this sorry cops don't point a gun at someone without probable cause |
evilford
09.22.16 | shut up austin powers |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | zak, my governemnt has over 7,000 nuclear warheads. I would appreciate it if they did not tell me I can't own a handgun |
evilford
09.22.16 | " cops don't point a gun at someone without probable cause"
more profound truth has never been spoken |
Futures
09.22.16 | zak how in the fuck are you going to take away 300 million guns? |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | By establishing that a nation with 300 million guns in it is a fucking disaster. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "cops don't point a gun at someone without probable cause"
I can easily defeat this. What about the people who get shot because they are running from the police? In the rules of a police officer you can NOT shoot someone unless there is an imminent threat. An imminent threat is defined as someone with a deadly weapon who is currently in the act of carrying out violent aggression. Any situation where there is not a person in danger from another person and the danger is not high enough that lives are at risk it is made clear that a gun can not be pulled on a person. |
Futures
09.22.16 | wow man you just solved the whole problem right there. brilliant |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | cop shouldnt of shot the guy running. the guy shouldnt have been running. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "cops don't point a gun at someone without probable cause"
more profound bullshit has never been spoken
fixed that up for you evilford. ignorant af |
Futures
09.22.16 | you're right cops just go up to random civilians and tell them what to do. amazing |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I wasn't solving the problem futures I was trying to debate you on one single law but then you dismiss it as if I were trying to solve the entire problem. lol I'm not falling for that. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | why is it that when people disagree with you storm, you become a fucking moron? go smoke a bowl again you were much more chill after you did last time. like im pretty sure you just stopped posting and fell asleep |
evilford
09.22.16 | dude shouldn't have been black, there problem solved. |
Futures
09.22.16 | i was talking to zak dude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "cop shouldnt of shot the guy running. the guy shouldnt have been running."
Please explain how these two statements are supposed to be linked together to make reasonable sense? |
evilford
09.22.16 | also I love how this retardedly veered off into gun control terrain |
evilford
09.22.16 | should police have guns |
Futures
09.22.16 | yeah ford that's zak for you |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @future ah okay, well, then I guess I'm waiting for a response
@spaceman or maybe you're not right in your perspectives? that's possible |
Keyblade
09.22.16 | "dude put his hand thru his open window their lives were so obviously in jeopardy"
naw photo evidence that was just released by the family lawyer as well as blood splatter all over the window shows the window was clearly rolled up |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | "Please explain how these two statements are supposed to be linked together to make reasonable sense?"
wow, you win. you've finally managed to stump me. I honestly don't know how to make that any clearer and more simple to understand. gg |
evilford
09.22.16 | "naw photo evidence that was just released by the family lawyer as well as blood splatter all over the window shows the window was clearly rolled up"
well I'd say this is looking worse for the police but they're the police so they'll get away w/ it |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "You're running from us so we need to shoot you"
if you think that makes sense you are an absolute piece of fucking shit |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | wow, you win. you've finally managed to show how despicable you are spaceman. you can think i'm an idiot but at least I don't support murder for silly reasons. gg |
evilford
09.22.16 | storm I think space man has basically been agreeing w/ u you've just been in angry defense mode too hard
or maybe I'm not paying attention idk anymore |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | ""You're running from us so we need to shoot you"
if you think that makes sense you are an absolute piece of fucking shit"
agreed so thank god no one here has said that |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I already said it was a fact that the windows were up and you guys dismissed it but another user says that the windows were up and you just accept it. nice |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "storm I think space man has basically been agreeing w/ u you've just been in angry defense mode too hard"
I'm very mad at the world and I am definitely taking it out on sputnik today. I will freely admit that. I am trying to be nice but it hasn't worked out entirely :-/ |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | lol i mean I agree with everything he says that I find true, that is the obvious shit like dont shoot people who dont deserve it. a lot of what he says I do disagree with tho. you missed a very long string of comments of him kicking and screaming trying to argue with me earlier itt |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | Massachusetts Supreme Court today ruled that black men do not need to be considered suspicious by police if they are seen running from police. Ruling based on statistics. |
evilford
09.22.16 | "I already said it was a fact that the windows were up and you guys dismissed it but another user says that the windows were up and you just accept it. nice"
damn dude didn't see you say that chill out lol |
Futures
09.22.16 | yeah storm you gotta calm down dude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | why do I have to be kicking and screaming why can't I be passionate because I care so much after all I say multiple times lets debate lets argue |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | Don't you think if there were tighter gun controls the fear, paranoia, armed stops and shootings would subside fractionally? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | lol okay guys I'll try to calm down*
*not sarcasm |
Futures
09.22.16 | it would never work in the united states. you are so oblivious it's hilarious |
evilford
09.22.16 | oh wait I did see that, I just noticed that key was referencing specific information that came out. sorry wasn't trying to dismiss you |
evilford
09.22.16 | this is not a gun control issue. I feel slightly dumber for even having to type that sentence. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | Zak there is a huge amount of people who would immediately resort to violence and killing of cops and others if they tried to take all the guns. now for gun control I don't know what the reaction would be but a lot of americans have already shit themselves at the conversation or mention of gun control so I can't imagine passing gun control would work out either. |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | "it would never work in the united states."
I don't think you realise how pitiful this sounds. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | its okay evilford |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | that said the people who shit the bed at the mention of gun control don't even understand what gun control is lol. a lot of rednecks assume gun control means taking away all the guns so they are ready to fight right away... |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | "why do I have to be kicking and screaming why can't I be passionate because I care so much"
toddlers are very passionate about staying up past 8pm. if you were to keep your cool and stop insulting people and dismissing valid points and only reading what you wanna read in people arguements I wouldn't have a problem. like key managed to lay down some interesting viewpoints that I took seriously |
Futures
09.22.16 | I don't think you realise how pitiful this sounds.
yeah dude please tell me how gun confiscation will work. please do. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | they didn't have the right to even tell him to put his hands up. legally he could have driven away since no crime had been committed and they had nothing on him so even if he did put his hands through the window area that actually would still be legal and not resisting arrest because there were obvious false pretenses |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | " a lot of rednecks assume gun control means taking away all the guns so they are ready to fight right away..." huge generalization. you'd be flippin out if I said something like 'a lot of blacks want to kill cops'. but yea lets drop this gun control issue its not going anywhere itt |
evilford
09.22.16 | love u guys. I'm goin to bed |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | 'legally he could have driven away since no crime had been committed and they had nothing on him so even if he did put his hands through the window area that actually would still be legal and not resisting arrest because there were obvious false pretenses'
i really get uncomfortable when you continue to promote this behavior. you cant seriously think that saying something like 'its okay to drive away from the cops' in regards to a situation where a man was shot while standing by a car with his hands above his head is a smart thing to tell people. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | night ford |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @spaceman the Massachusetts high court came out today and said exactly that. that it is okay and it is legal for a black man to run from the police out of fear and they are making it the law that the police can not chase them if they were not already accused or reasonably suspected |
Futures
09.22.16 | well that is retarded. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | it's human rights |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @spaceman I wasn't trying to promote behavior to run I was trying to tell you what the law actually is |
Futures
09.22.16 | so dude is committing a crime right in front of a cop. he can just run away? |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | no futures he commited a crime...I'm pretty sure I already clarified if he isn't suspected of a crime or accused of one then it is okay to run. I didn't say anything about criminals. The guy shot in Tulsa never committed a criminal act and wasn't accused of one at the time he was told to put his hands up and then shot |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | @futures
And you have the nerve to call me thick as shit |
Futures
09.22.16 | i'm giving a hypothetical situation. and no you didn't clarify that |
Futures
09.22.16 | I don't think you realise how pitiful this sounds.
please god answer the question. how is gun confiscation going to work? |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | storm I'm looking into that ruling now. while I understand why it specifically applies to blacks with whats been going on as of recent, the wording is strange in that it sounds like it only gives blacks the right to flee. I don't really take a lot of issue with this, but I can see and totally understand why some people, esp minoritites like hispanics who are also demonized by police, might be negatively effected with this. regardless it sounds like its a ruling in a direction your happy with so glad to know you think country is progressing.
i think its very ugly to have laws that further emphasize differences in race |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | "the Massachusetts high court came out today and said exactly that. that it is okay and it is legal for a black man to run from the police out of fear and they are making it the law that the police can not chase them if they were not already accused or reasonably suspected"
it is clarified in this statement. it is also part of the argument I was making yesterday and the day before. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I also think it is very ugly to have laws that further emphasize differences in race. I feel strongly about that more than anything else except unwarranted death. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | 'no futures he commited a crime...I'm pretty sure I already clarified if he isn't suspected of a crime or accused of one then it is okay to run. I didn't say anything about criminals. The guy shot in Tulsa never committed a criminal act and wasn't accused of one at the time he was told to put his hands up and then shot'
dude Ive adressed this before. its extremely dangerous to give people entitlements and excuses if they believe they are innocent. who is gonna be like 'oh fuck, im not running cause im guilty'. our laws specifically state everyone is innocent till proven guilty, so in effect futures is right... anyone can just run away from a cop with your reasoning |
Futures
09.22.16 | which is why hate crime legislation is wrong |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | spaceman I am also still looking into it too but yes it does appear to be about only black people because the court says the statistics go beyond proving the discrimination that has lead to countless black lives being ruined in their state. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | some people are convinced they arent guilty, when in fact they are. how do you go about dealing with that? happens all the time. that YT link you posted about the cop not knowing the laws... you think that only happens with cops lol? |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | "which is why hate crime legislation is wrong"
x1000000000, its just punishing thought |
BallsDeep
09.22.16 | Again Future's I've literally never seen you write anything that could be considered close to intelligent, and your opinions are objectively wrong more often than not |
Futures
09.22.16 | you're totally unbiased there retard huh |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @spaceman actually anyone already can turn away from a cop if they aren't accused of anything or impeding investigation and so on. I'm only talking about people running when they haven't been accused of anything and nothing happened. that guy was waiting for help and saw the police and walked towards them and they get out of the car with their weapons drawn even though he did nothing and nothing was reported except by him needing help with his car broken down. the law is going to take his side in that situation isn't it? it is not about giving people entitlement and excuses if they feel they aren't guilty it is about clarifying the rights of people not even being accused of something. it is illegal for a cop to pull a gun on someone who has not produced a weapon themselves and has not attacked. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | it's not about people who think they aren't guilty it's about people going about their lives and suddenly they're being confronted by police with guns drawn and they don't even have an idea of why |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | thinking you aren't guilty means you've been accused of a crime. i'm talking about people not even being accused and just shot dead like a dog. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | okay sure but let me be clear I have not once defended what these cops did in that video |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I understand |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | I've also never suggested that people should be shot if they are remaining calm and esp when complying to a cop's orders. i do however think that a supreme court ruling telling young blacks that it is within their constitutionality to flee from a cop is just asking for trouble. I realize in a perfect world that the ruling makes sense and more then likely does have good intentions, but you and I can both agree there is something far from perfect going on with american police rn, whatever it may be |
Futures
09.22.16 | yeah ballsdeep run along kid let the big boys talk about the important stuff |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | just my thoughts |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | police reform needs to happen. it's a social service so it shouldn't be that hard in theory... meh |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | he popped his head in for a quick minute to tell you how he doesnt like you futures. please dont loose sleep over it lol |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @spaceman I agree with everything you said just now |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | ballsdeep can make a good rap song tho just saying :-) |
Futures
09.22.16 | police reform needs to happen yeah. it's mass incompetence. think there is a body cam vote coming up in congress soon so hopefully that passes |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | @storm cool. you've also been providing good discussion. see what happens when you make a point to discuss rather then vilify and argue against people's character? promotes good sharing of ideas |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | oh man the police resisted body cams so much in the states that started it but it is a big reason why we are in this whole cultural mess because things were revealed that had been buried. if the evil of the world knew the advances technology could bring they would have tried everything to stop it. now they have to do things like try and make the internet not free. freedom of information act bitch! |
Futures
09.22.16 | yeah it would help a lot. but you know what would help the most? ENDING THE DRUG WAR which has racial bias and poor bias. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | @spaceman yeah haha I think sometimes my emotions related to who and what I've lost in the last few years affects me in conversation. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | well plus I've worked at a gas station where I was constantly under surveillance and didnt give a fuck cause I had nothing to hide. if they pull some 'thats unconstitutional' bs that'll aggravate the shit outta me |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | yes please lets end the drug war. Nixon might be the worst president of all time. I thought Andrew Jackson was the most despicable president ever but the more we learn about Nixon and his administration...wow |
BallsDeep
09.22.16 | @Futures
lol well I appreciate that you're trying to keep up but constructed, insightful contributions clearly are not your forte. Perhaps just stick to your 5 word snide remarks aimed towards users trying to have genuine discussions about music |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | stick to his what I'm curious at this dramatic cut-off...please don't be edited by the time I post this hah |
Futures
09.22.16 | worst presidents- lincoln, fdr, nixon, gwb, obama, nixon, wilson |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | balls dude you need to put past whatever '5 word snide remark' futures aimed at you lol he's contributed a ton |
Futures
09.22.16 | i think storm and spaceman can vouch for me moving the conversation forward here. you are just retarded dude |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | yeah futures is good. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I wouldn't call balls retarded though I like balls but that is neither here nor there
*almost closed this thread so this could be the last comment for humor |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | he has his moments and i think means well, he just sucks a fat one whenever he posts something more than 6 words in length |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | editted it to 6, ill give him the benefit of the doubt |
Futures
09.22.16 | lol yeah see the carly rae jepsen thread for his inane views on pop music |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | yea exactly what I had in mind |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | okay I will haha sorry balls |
BallsDeep
09.22.16 | Futures I'll admit you have contributed here and thoroughly impressed me but you're far to quick to attack the person , the majority of your comments end in 'you're retard' or something to that effect - which is juvenile and dramatically cheapens your own argument btw. Instead you should accept that some people will have the complete opposite opinion and that doesn't necessarily make them any less intelligent or their contributions any less worthwhile to the conversation- then logically and civilly discuss why you feel their opinion is lacking compared to yours. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | Balls going Deep |
Futures
09.22.16 | i'm not here to impress anyone i'm here to give my thoughts. zak started being hostile so i was hostile back i don't care. |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | @balls he definitely understands that people can have opposite opinions lol, I honestly think you're just looking too far into it. I mean i guess yea it can be hurtful but suck it up dude i even felt like a bitch just typing that |
TheSpaceMan
09.22.16 | " zak started being hostile so i was hostile back i don't care."
exactly both of u guys just do your thing its not that big of a deal how you treat another person over the internet |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | Woah. I wasn't hostile. |
Futures
09.22.16 | |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I like everyone who has commented in this thread tonight. |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | So do I. And I genuinely admire the US as well but the place never ceases to baffle the fuck out of me. |
kascetcadettt
09.22.16 | who's that guy on your pic ian |
kascetcadettt
09.22.16 | and who's ian on that pic |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | I'm on the right and Toby Morrell the lead singer of Emery is on the left. I was around 5 foot 10, 200 pounds when that picture was taken, Toby is a big guy. |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | and that picture was taken in a barn where the concert was at lol. I darted for Toby as soon as they closed out the concert and talked to him. |
zakalwe
09.22.16 | Emery. Awful band, deserve to be shot tbh |
Storm In A Teacup
09.22.16 | Sputnik Shoots It . com
sounds like a porn site |
Storm In A Teacup
10.11.20 | thread went amazingly well considering. sad to see how much worse things have gotten though. |
alamo
10.11.20 | I support violence against cops |
budgie
10.11.20 | i support pancakes for alamo |
chemicalmarriage
10.11.20 | Pancake the shit outta alamo |
Ryus
10.11.20 | Futures I'll admit you have contributed here and thoroughly impressed me but you're far to quick to attack the person , the majority of your comments end in 'you're retard' or something to that effect - which is juvenile and dramatically cheapens your own argument btw. Instead you should accept that some people will have the complete opposite opinion and that doesn't necessarily make them any less intelligent or their contributions any less worthwhile to the conversation- then logically and civilly discuss why you feel their opinion is lacking compared to yours. |
Ryus
10.11.20 | "you are a bit delusional dude on this sorry cops don't point a gun at someone without probable cause"
epic police moment |
