Spiral Skies: Listening to music made by "bad" people?

Spiral Skies 06.15.16	I learn to separate out the people from the art they make. It's the same with Roman Polanski, other filmmakers, or other artists in general. But lyrics can sometimes be more confrontational, and I imagine religious people especially would have a hard time stomaching the messages of Gorgoroth for example.
LotusFlower 06.15.16	i try to separate the artist from the music unless the artist has done something extreme that makes listening to them uncomfortable (Read: Lostprophets) or if their lyrical content reflects their shitty views.
ArsMoriendi 06.15.16	Lostprophets should be on this list lol And maybe Let It Be because Phil Spector murdered someone
Frippertronics 06.15.16	John Lennon tbh
ArsMoriendi 06.15.16	So true, I really hate that's he's my favorite Beatle, but damn could that asshole write some great lyrics.
Frippertronics 06.15.16	Harrison is better tho Plastic Ono Band is an incredible album however
Sinternet 06.15.16	same as cl0ver i used to dig lostprophets hard but man i cannot go near them now
Sinternet 06.15.16	lennon was the lamest beatle tbh
onionbubs 06.15.16	harrison is better [2] no disrespect to lennon tho. hes definitely my 2nd favorite tool
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	All the Beatles were tops, if Lennon's being brought up for acting like a dick to fans, that kind of behavior would sooner be listed under Dave Mustaine or Axl Rose before him. Unless there're some egregious things he's done that I'm unaware of.
Sinternet 06.15.16	oh you forgot phil anselmo btw
hesperus 06.15.16	same as cl0ver [2] i'll also get tired of listening to an artist if they're consistently shitty, even if their shittiness is only mild-to-moderate (i'm still on an amanda palmer hiatus).
LotusFlower 06.15.16	what did amanda palmer do?
LotusFlower 06.15.16	oh wait are you talking about the 20 million singles and tribute albums shes made that no one cares about?
ArsMoriendi 06.15.16	"Plastic Ono Band is an incredible album however" I'm also really fond of Mind Games honestly.
ArsMoriendi 06.15.16	" if Lennon's being brought up for acting like a dick to fans, " No, it's because Lennon used to beat his wife
Idleness 06.15.16	i only listen to albums if hard copies have been found at crimescenes
Sinternet 06.15.16	amanda palmer is really iffy the only really shitty thing she did was the 'play for me for free' thing the boston bomber poem thing was a bit misguided i guess but fuck the daily mail song was fantastic
hesperus 06.15.16	it wasn't one thing amanda palmer did, she just kept saying/doing one mildly shitty thing after another and it all built up until i felt too tired of her as a person to enjoy her music
Cygnatti 06.15.16	i legit don't care, all i care about is the music. when power electronics regularly delves into neo-nazi shite. (as well as hardcore rap, dm, and bm shit) it all becomes bland kinda.
Idleness 06.15.16	yeah once youve heard it enough its like okay wtvr raping babies is still better than radiohead
Pavera 06.15.16	arghoslent
worthlessscab 06.15.16	music is abstract and dark themes have their place
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	I think Phil Anselmo has enough negative attention for what he did. He acted like an ass, the internet shamed him appropriately, and I think he's paid for it by now.
Cygnatti 06.15.16	"most of these people make shitty music anyway" [2]
ScuroFantasma 06.15.16	Lyrics, imagery etc. in music I don't care about. Sing about satan and rape if you want, hang a pentagram upside down and name your album DevilDick666; to me it's interesting to hear these views even (especially) when I don't agree with them, and I wouldn't censor creativity in this regard in any way - they're just words or images after all, not hurting anybody and I tend to isolate them to just the piece they're attached to. When it comes to 'art' I throw away the usual criteria for life. Actions that are seperate from the music I do care about to some extent though. Being an asshole wouldn't make me dislike their music necessarily, but there's definitley a line. I draw the line at Ian Watkins.
Cygnatti 06.15.16	ian watkins is reprehensible musician and human being
TheGreatQ 06.15.16	Ian Watkins is pretty much the only person who's actions have ever come close to making me unable to listen to their music. Otherwise, unless shit gets into the lyrics I don't care. Sometimes even that isn't too much if it's good enough music.
iloveyouall 06.15.16	i am 100% against negative themes in music :)
Mystletainn 06.15.16	you're a bad person
iloveyouall 06.15.16	: (
Mystletainn 06.15.16	I was talking to list creator ;D
Idleness 06.15.16	( :
iloveyouall 06.15.16	: )
p4p 06.15.16	check xenophobic ejaculation bro
iloveyouall 06.15.16	and nicole 12
Ashen 06.15.16	my parents don't let me listen to black metal
iloveyouall 06.15.16	good parenting
Asdfp277 06.15.16	[2]
adr 06.15.16	xD
TVC15 06.15.16	"But lyrics can sometimes be more confrontational, and I imagine religious people especially would have a hard time stomaching the messages of Gorgoroth for example." I can attest to this, although Raining Blood by Slayer is the one thing that comes to my mind that makes me very uncomfortabl. But for some reason I can stomach a strong majority of stuff in the extreme ends of metal... although some of the more obscure black metal still makes me scared as hell
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	"I can attest to this, although the only time I've ever felt very uncomfortable (and still do) is listening to Raining Blood by Slayer but for some reason I can stomach a strong majority of stuff in the extreme ends of metal" dUDE i THOUGHT YOU WERE A BLACK METAL PUREST THOUGH
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	Lol at my caps lock
TVC15 06.15.16	"dUDE i THOUGHT YOU WERE A BLACK METAL PUREST THOUGH" Well I can't really make out what they're saying 95% of the time anyway ;)
Idleness 06.15.16	i only listen to music if the guitar strings were used to strangle somebody
TVC15 06.15.16	"Out of curiosity, how do fans of these bands, especially Christians, Jews, etc. get around these realities?" As I said to MrAlexK, I can't really understand what they're saying (screaming) a strong majority of the time and I try not to dig too much into the artists' biographies to distance myself further from their truer intentions in the music. And besides that, the music is often just too good for me to resist and I don't mind listening to, so to speak, the devil's advocate so it's all gucci a lot of the time
Mephistopheles 06.15.16	Auschwitz
worthlessscab 06.15.16	The meaning of pain
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	Surprised no hip hop artists have been mentioned.
iloveyouall 06.15.16	lol
TVC15 06.15.16	What ALA is true, but damn does the fact that Tom Araya wrote one of the most satanic songs I've ever heard (Raining Blood) and yet he's a devout Catholic makes the song more frightening to me
worthlessscab 06.15.16	das racist decent group
iloveyouall 06.15.16	chief keef almost got fetty wap killed.
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	Didn't Troy Ave kill somebody a couple weeks ago?
iloveyouall 06.15.16	bobby shmurda's gang "apparently" murked a few homies
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	Yeah a dude from around where I live dropped a diss track towards his rival trappers. He got glocked the same night he dropped it.
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	It's important to mention that Tom Araya doesn't actually write 95% of Slayer lyrics, it's almost always Hanneman or King. He just sings them, and doesn't have a problem doing so, as his faith is separate from the music he plays.
iloveyouall 06.15.16	alex, you heard about the lil jojo story?
TVC15 06.15.16	Oh shoot I didn't actually know that Spiral. The more you know
ScuroFantasma 06.15.16	I like Araya's philosophy on the matter
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	Nah sach
iloveyouall 06.15.16	http://www.hipwiki.com/Lil+Jojo+(Chicago+Rap+Artist) video for TEC shows the bridge where he got shot right after "who the fuck talking now" savage shit.
AlexKzillion 06.15.16	damn
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	Yeah rap lyrics can be pretty brutal, sometimes more so since it's usually grounded in reality as opposed to exaggerated satanic or gore lyrics in metal. I always got a chuckle out of rap lyrics that deal with serious, real issues like racism, then later in the same song have ridiculous sexist lyrics about women being "bitches" and similar stuff. Double standard much?? lol
TVC15 06.15.16	Hit 'Em Up is probably one of the most brutal songs in existence tbh
iloveyouall 06.15.16	NIGGA TRY TO TWEET, KILL HIM AND HIS BABY
Artuma 06.15.16	i like death in june :/
Cygnatti 06.15.16	Just because one has a song that is "against racism" doesn't mean they have to be anti sexist as well. The two are not mutually exclusive, bud.
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	I know that sexism and racism aren't mutually exclusive, but it kinda kills any genuine message they were going for with dehumanizing women and being sexist in the next verses. They just sound like assholes. Being sexist and going on about drug use and $$ and being gangsta is funny when exaggerated tho, like NWA, Snoop Dogg etc.
Idleness 06.15.16	takes a sexist to know a sexist, you better check yourself before you wreck yourself, kid
Valkoor952 06.15.16	Morgan Freeman is a sexist..... is what I found today. It's good that he's open about it.
SitruK6 06.15.16	I don't really care about the personal views of any musician. Personally I listen to music that's interesting to me and that's where it ends.
DazSkunk 06.15.16	While the backstory and views of an artist may be interesting in the context of their music (e.g. Peste Noire). I personally don't let it affect my initial enjoyment of the music in a negative way, except for maybe a really cheesy and gimmicky christian rock band. Another example is Charles Manson's album 'Lie'. I think his twisted lyrics add a certain eerie element to the record.
Masochist 06.15.16	"Out of curiosity, how do fans of these bands, especially Christians, Jews, etc. get around these realities?" It's kind of how Bad Religion is my favorite band, but I'm completely Christian. I can recognize that their beliefs are their own, but their lyrics make me think, and their music is appealing to me, so I'm into it. I really dig A Perfect Circle, too, and sing along when he screams FUCK YOUR GOD. That's cool...I don't really mean it, even if he does. Eminem has a song where he literally takes his wife out to the woods and kills her in hellish detail. Love the song, love the man's music. Ian Watkins and Tim Lambesis, on the other hand, who DO reprehensible shit, are hard to listen to...especially since I was such a fan of their work, and they were both very important to my musical journey. I can still listen to it sometimes, but in the back of my mind, their actions outside of the band will always stop me from enjoying it the way I used to.
Zig 06.15.16	Although, I read about musicians personal life and views, it doesn't really affect me, I may agree or not with their ideologies. About lyrics, it's a big deal for me, don't give a fuck how good the music may be, if a guy sings "send them all back to Africa" or shit like that, I can't really enjoy it. I don't even like 'save the environment' stuff.
Hurricanslash 06.15.16	Wasn't the singer of Gorgoroth named Gay Person of the Year in Norway in 2012 or something like that? He also had some really good interviews where he explained his actions in the nineties really well. I don't condemn it, but it cleared a lot up. Mayhem, Dissection and Burzum however...Yeah, those guys are just disgusting. I would add Watain as well. I can't really listen to a musicians music anymore when I find out that they have some extremely racist/sexist/homophobic views. Especially when the lyrics themselves talk about them. Considering Spiral Skies point about rap lyrics, though, you really gotta take into consideration in what reality a lot of these rappers grew up in. Of course it's not okay to be sexist, but when you grew up in a community where sexism and homophobia is rampant, would you think about the implications putting that into your lyrics? Of course not. That's like critizing the 90s Memphis scene for being too violent in their lyrics. Or critizing Atlanta for talking about drugs. Of course it's not okay, but the context of music is also always required.
iloveyouall 06.15.16	"Considering Spiral Skies point about rap lyrics, though, you really gotta take into consideration in what reality a lot of these rappers grew up in. Of course it's not okay to be sexist, but when you grew up in a community where sexism and homophobia is rampant, would you think about the implications putting that into your lyrics? Of course not. That's like critizing the 90s Memphis scene for being too violent in their lyrics. Or critizing Atlanta for talking about drugs. Of course it's not okay, but the context of music is also often required." [2] hard
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	Well put Hurricanslash, and a rapper's environment would definitely be influential on their lyrics with certain subject matter, but as a listener it just bothers me personally and kinda ruins their credibility of the message with how blatantly sexist and dehumanizing they sound. It's just some cases, the ones that aren't tongue-in-cheek, that bother me.
guitarded_chuck 06.15.16	I miss the old Kanye, straight from the 'Go Kanye Chop up the soul Kanye, set on his goals Kanye I hate the new Kanye, the bad mood Kanye The always rude Kanye, spaz in the news Kanye I miss the sweet Kanye, chop up the beats Kanye I gotta say, at that time I'd like to meet Kanye See I invented Kanye, it wasn't any Kanyes And now I look and look around and there's so many Kanyes I used to love Kanye, I used to love Kanye I even had the pink Polo, I thought I was Kanye What if Kanye made a song, about Kanye? Called "I Miss The Old Kanye," man that would be so Kanye That's all it was Kanye, we still love Kanye And I love you like Kanye loves Kanye
Hurricanslash 06.15.16	But that is just a result of how you were socialized. I can tell you for a fact that most women that live in these communities don't care if you call them a "bitch" or "hoe", because if everyone says it, then these words just lose their meaning. The same with overly sexual and dehumanizing lyrics. If everyone around you acts like that, it's just filler at some point. Of course, that's not cool. But that's exactly why you can't criticise these communities for calling out social inequalities in one verse and then being sexist in the next. It's just common there. Again, this is not to be condemned, but if this is your hang-up for credibility in Hip-Hop, you basically just rob them their voices. And that's really not cool.
SCREAM! 06.15.16	"The extreme cases seem to be, very generally, neo-Nazism/cultish/Satanist/homicidal " So we're equating Satanism with homicide and white supremacy now smh
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	I don't think everyone coming together and dehumanizing and disrespecting a whole gender loses its meaning just because it happens all the time. That's just even more terrible, and just because a society or culture says something is ok commonly, doesn't make it any less wrong. It ruins the credibility of a real message about discrimination if the rapper is openly dehumanizing and discriminating against the opposite sex. It's considered one of the biggest problems in the rap world, and just shrugging your shoulders about it and accepting it by just saying its common ruins any potential for change.
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	Scream I edited appropriately, I was never trying to say that those cases were necessarily related. It should read more accurately now.
Keyblade 06.15.16	"I miss the old Kanye, straight from the 'Go Kanye Chop up the soul Kanye, set on his goals Kanye I hate the new Kanye, the bad mood Kanye The always rude Kanye, spaz in the news Kanye I miss the sweet Kanye, chop up the beats Kanye I gotta say, at that time I'd like to meet Kanye See I invented Kanye, it wasn't any Kanyes And now I look and look around and there's so many Kanyes I used to love Kanye, I used to love Kanye I even had the pink Polo, I thought I was Kanye What if Kanye made a song, about Kanye? Called "I Miss The Old Kanye," man that would be so Kanye That's all it was Kanye, we still love Kanye And I love you like Kanye loves Kanye" fuckin hard, whoever wrote this is a real one
Hurricanslash 06.15.16	I'm not shrugging my shoulder about it, it's just about songs that were already made. Of course we need to work on this shit, and we do. But you can't strip the message out of already released songs because of the viewpoints that their socialisation put into them. That's unfair. Yes, we really need to work on these problems, especially in these communities. And we ARE working on that, simply you discussing these things means that stuff is going forward. And yes, it is one of the biggest problems in rap, no doubt, but it doesn't make songs less credible. I'm just saying that there is a huge difference between shrugging your shoulders at stuff like this and acknowledging the difficult history that these communities had. It's not just black and white, there is plenty of grey.
TheBarber 06.15.16	Ranking Dread is great reggae, their frontman has a body count of 33, metal is cute, I jamming ranking dread right now (the record with all the kids on he cover playing around said killer)
iloveyouall 06.15.16	"So we're equating Satanism with homicide and white supremacy now smh" all equally edgy, yeah
Keyblade 06.15.16	early hip hop was a depiction of reality, it wasnt some kind of glorification idk why ppl seem to miss that. the rappers themselves would tell u this shit is fucked up, but it's life dawg i also dont see ppl constantly going on about 70's and 80's rock and roll and how misogynistic it was smh
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	I suppose that it depends on how the rapper goes about it. Depicting harsh realities should never be compromised, and I don't want messages to be less credible, it's just weird to my brain. These communities have definitely had a difficult history, and it is very complicated.
AnimalsAsSummit 06.15.16	Only album I really like by someone who is truly bad is Lucifer Rising by Bobby Beausoleil. But that's because that album is undeniably amazing to the point where it doesn't matter who made it.
benkim 06.15.16	I might be in the minority here but I will not support bands with questionable ethics the same way I'll boycott corporations with horrible ethical histories.
bloc 06.15.16	As despicable as some of these artists' crimes may be, I don't really let it stop me from listening and enjoying their albums. Lostprophets in particular comes to mind, as I think their first 2 albums kick ass.
Aftertheascension 06.15.16	" Plenty of extreme metal bands like Peste Noire, Dissection, Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Burzum, and others have openly expressed violence towards gays, condemned Christians and Jews, and performed violent satanic rituals. Out of curiosity, how do fans of these bands, especially Christians, Jews, etc. get around these realities?" I care about the music more than the person. If I like a band enough I'll follow them on twitter to see their personal life every once in a while but otherwise I honestly don't care about the person.
Flugmorph 06.15.16	gotta agree with ascension here. Especially in black metal i dont care much about the persons behind the music cause they're mostly pretetious twats with weird backwards worldviews
Spiral Skies 06.15.16	lol true true