ZombicidalMan
10.19.15 | some stinky conservative farted when I was standing in line |
Jots
10.19.15 | just got back |
Snowdog808
10.20.15 | 10 should be North America's representative album. |
demigod!
10.20.15 | go canada go |
grannypantys
10.20.15 | voting is gay |
Jots
10.20.15 | from discomfort |
CaimanJesus
10.20.15 | Liberal Government |
Cygnatti
10.20.15 | Good album mr jones |
Funeralopolis
10.20.15 | Voted today, although it makes no difference it feels good to at least put an effort to say fuck you to Harper. |
CaimanJesus
10.20.15 | Lmao Mulcair lost in his riding |
Trundle
10.20.15 | herr harper is done |
Keyblade
10.20.15 | been living abroad for a few years now but fuck harper agreed |
SharkTooth
10.20.15 | I'm guessing it's a good thing that Trudeau's in the lead rn
(I only know about Harper here tbh) |
Funeralopolis
10.20.15 | Liberals officially have majority government now |
Trundle
10.20.15 | also list needs cryptopsy |
CaimanJesus
10.20.15 | List needs more Devin Townsend |
demigod!
10.20.15 | word |
SharkTooth
10.20.15 | not Canadian but list could also use NoMeansNo |
ZombicidalMan
10.20.15 | Yeah, I failed the Canadian metalheads a bit. Might add some cryptopsy and annihilator and such later |
rolereprisal
10.20.15 | vote norm kelly - the party of savages |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "Lmao Mulcair lost in his riding"
No he didn't... |
Jots
10.20.15 | yeah idk what he's saying. he kept his seat. |
CaimanJesus
10.20.15 | I should probably stop listening to my roommate |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | All leaders won except Duceppe
That's worth a chuckle right thur |
SharkTooth
10.20.15 | damn Trudeau's in the lead rn |
demigod!
10.20.15 | weed dude |
CaimanJesus
10.20.15 | Lmao the same guy that told me that Mulcair lost his riding just texted me that Harper is gonna be PM again. What an ass. |
ZombicidalMan
10.20.15 | another situation where google is your friend |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | liberal majority... god dammit. say hello to another 5 years of c-51 and c-24. also weed isn't a primary objective right now and could take years for them to get around to tbh. really wanted ndp to get in |
ShadowRemains
10.20.15 | mulcair was a fucking shit candidate though, can't blame people with going to the liberals |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "liberal majority... god dammit. say hello to another 5 years of c-51 and c-24. also weed isn't a primary objective right now and could take years for them to get around to tbh. really wanted ndp to get in "
Trudeau was outspokenly against c-24... |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | None of the candidates were anything great tbh. Harper HAD to go without a doubt and I do believe the best option presented won. However, I sort of wish he had won with a minority so as to have some balance in the house of commons.
In the end though, I'm still happy we got rid of Harper. Should be an interesting 4 years |
Snowdog808
10.20.15 | Some Voivod would be nice as well. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | Trudeau was outspokenly against c-24... [2]
also they are ammending c-51
also you say youre complaining about weed gyro but supported the ndp, the ndp werent going to legalize it in the first place lol
it's essentially decriminalized immediately and will be as soon as parliament goes back in, and who fucking cares if it takes a year or two to draft and implement new legalization to fully legalize it, it's a majority government so it's going to happen
|
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | I'm for legalization and think our country would benefit immensely for it but let's not kid ourselves like there aren't some bigger issues on the table atm. Even with the majority, there will be a lot of opposition and outcry from a good chunk of the population so is that really what you want to be putting your effort into right this second? |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | Also this: "also you say youre complaining about weed gyro but supported the ndp, the ndp werent going to legalize it in the first place lol"
Trudeau was the only one bringing up legalization (well May too I guess). Mulcair's stance was decriminalization and MAYBE legalization further down the road
|
Jots
10.20.15 | yeah Alberta is generally none too pleased with the results, at least among my Edmonton brethren. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | muclair was never going to legalize it, he was depending too much on the disgruntled conservative vote as seen in alberta's provincial election
alberta is like the texas of canada its fucking hilarious reading some of the comments by people on my facebook from there
most people i know that went out there to work in the oil sands were the uneducated people with no other choice and it shows |
Jots
10.20.15 | yeah I have a lot of military friends and it's kinda embarrassing reading some of the statuses from the more oblivious ones. |
MO
10.20.15 | it's hilarious that the Liberals won 2 seats right in the heart of calgary. good times. it's nice to have a breath of fresh air atm. we'll see if he can handle the world stage and the constant jabs from the right wing, but I think he'll be a pretty level headed leader |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | it's cliche to talk about his upbringing as son of a PM etc but really that life experience will probably help to keep him level headed |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | Honestly after 10 years of broken promises, withholding and manipulating information, fostering xenophobia/racism, etc etc etc the fact that so many people can still be so supportive (and so strongly supportive at that) of Harper is fucking baffling.
Meanwhile, Trudeau hasn't even been sworn in yet and people are claiming the downfall of the country. Everyone needs to chill the fuck out and give him a chance |
MO
10.20.15 | It's because he had the balls to basically say listen we need to invest a fuckload in infrastructure and will run a deficit. But it'll be great for the long run. He's looking at the long-term, righties look at the short-term instant economic progress. |
Funeralopolis
10.20.15 | agreed, balancing the budget should never be a priority it should be whether we are making valuable smart investments with our money for the country or not. |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | "also you say youre complaining about weed gyro but supported the ndp, the ndp werent going to legalize it in the first place lol"
ndp were going to decriminalize it which is better than legalization atm. also 'amending' bill c-51 is not good enough. the fucking thing shouldn't even exist in the first place. i am staunchly against the conservative party, but liberals might prove to be also bad. ndp had the best platform by far |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "ndp were going to decriminalize it which is better than legalization atm"
and why is that
"agreed, balancing the budget should never be a priority it should be whether we are making valuable smart investments with our money for the country or not"
agreed
need to jump start the economy by moving in the right direction with proper investment in infrastructure and green jobs first |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | it seems as though a lot of proponents of marijuana legalization don't fully understand the [huge] difference between decriminalization and legalization. there's more to it than just semantics - if it's legalized it will be regulated, controlled, and rules will be enforced for it that are out of our control - rules that will see you getting arrested for possessing or using it in public, or being in a car while stoned (even if you're just chilling in your driveway or not even smoking and instead it's your buddies who are, kind of like that stupid fucking bylaw where you can be charged for having alcohol in the front or back seat of your car regardless as to whether or not it's even opened). legalization comes with it a lot of red tape, whereas decriminalization removes all criminal consequences and allows for the people to decide. let provinces decide based on the consensus of its voters. legalization of it, with the many repercussions that will come, similar to tobacco and alcohol use, will confuse the youth demographic when they see a medicinal weed smoker getting busted for smoking pot in public. it is largely accepted now that it has a lot of medicinal properties, and the legalization of it will make it a medicine people will in all likelihood need to take in the privacy of their homes. |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "will confuse the youth demographic when they see a medicinal weed smoker getting busted for smoking pot in public."
How do you figure legalization will make it harder on those who use it medicinally? That's totally backwards. Legalizing will open a whole new market that will allow it to be taxed and generate revenue for the country rather than gangs/dealers on top of making it a legitimate profitable business venture that will encourage research and development into it.
You wouldn't be allowed to smoke it in your car (or anywhere) if it was decriminalized either so I don't know why that is even an argument. Decriminalization means there would still be fines/penalties attached to use/possession, it just wouldn't go on a criminal record anymore. |
IGetMyMSG
10.20.15 | Idk canadian politics but all i know was Harper was a grade A turd so good for you guys i guess. What kind of opinions do the liberals hold? |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | if you think decriminalization means less "red tape" than legalization you have a completely flawed perception what they mean
fucking right it will continue to be illegal to drive stoned
do you think it wouldnt be if it were decriminalized
you wont get arrested for possession in public you noob, you are going to be able to outright purchase it in public
so what you cant smoke in public, you cant drink in public either
if its an issue with people using it for medical purposes im sure it will be addressed, thus the need for a consultation period before bill is developed |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | look, i'm not going to get into a big argument about this because people who have their political ideologies tend to remain entrenched in their opinions regardless of what information is presented to the contrary. all i'll say is: it really isn't as black and white, and you aren't focusing on the larger points i addressed. if it were decriminalized the people would decide how best to handle it based on voter consensus, which is something we can affect, instead of having a governing body decide for us (it's pretty ridiculous that you can get fined for having a cigarette in public, and those same rules will be extended to weed use). decriminalization would remove it as a class 1 substance. its designation as a drug would be gone. i think we should provincially adjust marijuana laws through voter consensus, educate people about the negatives and positives, and treat it as something other than a drug (that last point is essentially something a lot of people will fixate on and i don't feel like debating it. it is a drug, but that word carries with it such a negative connotation and weed is easily the least harmful 'drug' on the planet). |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | also i didn't say you should be able to drive stoned, so. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "look, i'm not going to get into a big argument about this because people who have their political ideologies tend to remain entrenched in their opinions regardless of what information is presented to the contrary."
good to see you are aware of your own flaws
"if it were decriminalized the people would decide how best to handle it based on voter consensus, which is something we can affect, instead of having a governing body decide for us (it's pretty ridiculous that you can get fined for having a cigarette in public, and those same rules will be extended to weed use)."
you are contradicting yourself so badly im literally laughing dude
again, you are complaining about it being dumb you can't smoke it in public if it's legalized
what in the fuck, do you think you'd be able to do it if it were just decriminalized?
if anything it's more likely you would be more apt to be fined in that case, or that the fines would be larger (this finer points are obviously yet to be addressed because the legalization has not been made yet, i.e. you are whining about thin air)
also trudeau as said all along clearly and succinctly that he will in fact work with the provinces |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "How do you figure legalization will make it harder on those who use it medicinally? That's totally backwards. Legalizing will open a whole new market that will allow it to be taxed and generate revenue for the country rather than gangs/dealers on top of making it a legitimate profitable business venture that will encourage research and development into it.
You wouldn't be allowed to smoke it in your car (or anywhere) if it was decriminalized either so I don't know why that is even an argument. Decriminalization means there would still be fines/penalties attached to use/possession, it just wouldn't go on a criminal record anymore."
^^^
gyro's opinions are weird as fuck ITT and it's like he's just blindly defending the NDPs platform even though he doesn't actually agree with it, like as if he can't even see that he doesn't agree with it |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | you just quoted me and said i'm contradicting myself without pointing out how. i said i want people to decide how these laws will be adjusted instead of a political party... where is the contradiction?
anyways, you're right, of course, dude. i'll refer all of the politicians and scholars who advocate decriminalization your way so you can set them straight. |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "if it were decriminalized the people would decide how best to handle it based on voter consensus"
This applies to legalization as well (if anything moreso because once it's legal provinces have much more leeway to work with). In Ontario Wynne is taking action to have beer + wine available in grocery stores, in many provinces (Quebec) this is already allowed and in some (Alberta) it's been completely privatized. So yes, provinces would still have some control based on popular opinion.
"(it's pretty ridiculous that you can get fined for having a cigarette in public, and those same rules will be extended to weed use"
In some areas but smoking in public is still very much legal, not sure where this argument is coming from. Also, the whole idea of it being a "victimless crime" means it doesn't impede on others' wellbeing making it perfectly logical to control its use in public. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "you just quoted me and said i'm contradicting myself without pointing out how. i said i want people to decide how these laws will be adjusted instead of a political party... where is the contradiction?"
we let the people decide last night
again, trudeau said he would work with the provinces on the finer points, similar to how alcohol is regulated
i'd like to see some sources of these "scholars" advocating for decriminalization over legalization and regulation |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | thank you for at least engaging in a discussion about this instead of resorting to petty retorts like chuck, simon.
it applies to legalization but what you're talking about is a long and sometimes fruitless endeavor. we've been trying to take away the lcbos stranglehold on the alcohol market for ages now.
and the use of marijuana in public would obviously not affect other people in a negative way. ffs it was used to pacify people during war times. alcohol, sure, it can make people extremely volatile, but weed would only offend those who don't like to see people squinting and laughing |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | what's the point of debating it's use in public anyway if you're only for decriminalization and not legalization
clearly it would be illegal for use in public period if decriminalized (not talking about people with prescriptions)
the details of public use under legalization are yet to be worked out but what it does do is leave that option open
i'm sure eventually if not immediately once legalized there will be licenses for the allotment of use in "public" in controlled areas, similar to bars or licensed closed off areas of public events (concerts etc)
smoking weed is less of a discrete thing than drinking as it carries through the air |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "and the use of marijuana in public would obviously not affect other people in a negative way. ffs it was used to pacify people during war times. alcohol, sure, it can make people extremely volatile, but weed would only offend those who don't like to see people squinting and laughing"
this is fucking stupid
it's too bad bud, learn to respect the wishes of other people
and again, why the fuck are you complaining about public use if you aren't for legalization
do you see how you contradict yourself yet |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | "the details of public use under legalization are yet to be worked out but what it does do is leave that option open"
let's consider how other controlled substances have worked out after legislation has been passed. with alcohol we have the lcbo in ontario, which is a fucking nightmare. i don't have high hopes for the laws that will be implemented just because the jury is still out. you are putting a lot of faith in a political party that doesn't have a good track record of keeping its word. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | lets decriminalize it but you can use it in public without getting fined
what
like seriously dude, please succinctly explain your position because you literally make no sense |
ZombicidalMan
10.20.15 | highest turnout since 1997, which sure says a lot about how badly we wanted harper gone...
I won't add anything to this legalization shitstorm since scream and chuck have it covered. lol |
MyNameIsPencil
10.20.15 | Good too see that Harper is out, coming from a resident of the US of A |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | how am i contradicting myself? if it were decriminalized there wouldn't be any criminal consequences. we would decide on a provincial level. many might ban its use in public places and many might not. it would be up to us to decide.
whatever though, you clearly can't have a civilized discussion about it without resorting to dumb insults so i'm going to abort. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "let's consider how other controlled substances have worked out after legislation has been passed. with alcohol we have the lcbo in ontario, which is a fucking nightmare. i don't have high hopes for the laws that will be implemented just because the jury is still out. you are putting a lot of faith in a political party that doesn't have a good track record of keeping its word. "
let's consider a modern world where alcohol is only decriminizled, because you clearly haven't the slightest concept of what that would mean and how things would differ.
you can't buy it. anywhere.
bootleggers are still living in the woods selling shitty product to people. people are importing it illegally. money is going to criminals. there is no tax revenue.
you can't drink anywhere. you have to hide it at home.
if you are found to be holding liquor, you get fined.
and oh yeah, YOU CANT DRINK IN PUBLIC, OBVIOUSLY |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "how am i contradicting myself? if it were decriminalized there wouldn't be any criminal consequences. we would decide on a provincial level. many might ban its use in public places and many might not. it would be up to us to decide."
h o l y f u c k dude
it would be beyond the point of being banned in public. it's still banned period you moron. you get fined because it's illegal. it's just not a criminal offense.
im done this is impossible |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | you're totally right man. nobody in the world should be for decriminalization. so fucking weird that so many people are. idk wth is wrong with people |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | for decriminalization, yet, for public use
makes sense, got it |
Gyromania
10.20.15 | decrim changes it on a provincial level, with a possibility, or at least with designated spots which many places have already done. would have loved to have elaborated more on my point without you insulting me, but what can you do.
anyway, your insights are appreciated as always. amen to your word brother |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | address the point i made about a modern canada with decriminalized alcohol vs legalized then
is that what you want
and if it were not legalized the provinces couldn't do shit. no they can't make designated smoking spots for those without a prescription. the RCMP can still come in and fine them. whether they would be inclined to do so or not is another question but why bother testing it when it can just be legal. you position just makes absolutely no sense to me.
|
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "thank you for at least engaging in a discussion about this instead of resorting to petty retorts like chuck, simon"
The amount of shit slinging witnessed all over during the election was more than enough. People don't seem to realize that differing opinions are needed to consider all aspects of a situation and that calling someone names will only close them off to constructive debate and leads to this political dogmatism we're witnessing.
With that being said...
"and the use of marijuana in public would obviously not affect other people in a negative way. ffs it was used to pacify people during war times. alcohol, sure, it can make people extremely volatile, but weed would only offend those who don't like to see people squinting and laughing "
Smoking anything in public, cigarettes included, affects those around you. It's your right to choose to smoke but it's my right to choose not to and having to inhale the trail of smoke you leave behind impedes on that right.
"how am i contradicting myself? if it were decriminalized there wouldn't be any criminal consequences. we would decide on a provincial level. many might ban its use in public places and many might not. it would be up to us to decide."
Decriminalized means it wouldn't land you a criminal record. Not that they would stop enforcing it altogether. By legalizing you are saying that, for all the control measures they may or may not create, you at least have the basic right to possess and consume in private.
Decriminalization doesn't even give you that. If a province isn't open to making it accessible when it is legal, they won't be any more open to it when it isn't. I have to side with Chuck on this one.
"you're totally right man. nobody in the world should be for decriminalization. so fucking weird that so many people are. idk wth is wrong with people "
Reasons to be for decriminalization:
1) As a user, hoping keeping it untaxed will keep it cheaper. Personally, I'm for taxing it and having the money going back towards contributing to the country.
2) Realising it isn't enough of an offense to waste our judicial system on but not wanting it to be fully legal and accessible (basically the opposite of what you are arguing)
3) Thinking it's a necessary step towards getting people ready for legalization but wanting legalization as an end goal.
Three reasons off the top of my head as to why people would argue for decrim vs legalisation. Yours is but one and frankly, I just don't see the sense in it even now.. |
ZombicidalMan
10.20.15 | I think it's insane that you'd prefer segregating pot smokers via safe smoking spaces in the hope that your province *might* produce some more favourable policies. it would still have a huge stigma attached to it and it's likely that you'd still be fined for possession, even with the smallest amount on you
Personally I'd rather get some revenue going in the country and, in time, make marijuana an acceptable drug/activity, and put laws in place to stop idiots from abusing it (just like alcohol!) |
SCREAM!
10.20.15 | "decrim changes it on a provincial level, with a possibility, or at least with designated spots which many places have already done."
Decrim means it is still illegal... You can't have a designated spot for something that is illegal...it's illegal...
Cigarette are legal and are treated exactly how you just described |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | the NDP's apparent position (albeit absolutely lukewarm lawyer talk) was #3. the thing is, the people are ready for it. the people did speak for it. yesterday happened, and it's going to be legalized.
the NDP deciding to move to the right to garner some conservative support was their downfall, and all of the left wing sided with the only truly left wing party in this election and that was the liberals. this could have easily been an NDP minority at least, but they fucked up.
for the record i am 26 and have voted NDP in every federal and provincial election up until this one. |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | "Decrim means it is still illegal... You can't have a designated spot for something that is illegal...it's illegal..."
this is what gets lost on him
then he gets all pissy at me for being frustrated that he cant grasp (or rather, chooses not to accept) such a simple concept in favor of continuing to defend the NDP's policy
don't fucking talk to me about being objective gyro, you are being the exact opposite |
guitarded_chuck
10.20.15 | |
SCREAM!
10.21.15 | I guess that's that then |
demigod!
10.21.15 | we stand on guard |
guitarded_chuck
10.21.15 | "dont be so closed minded chuck. be more objective"
*leaves thread when valid points are made and cannot think of logical counters* |
