LotusFlower
10.14.15 | i only know like 2 of these and im 60% sure neither of them are DM |
theBoneyKing
10.14.15 | AllMusic is horse shite |
evilford
10.14.15 | about what one should expect from Allmusic |
Ashen
10.14.15 | truthfully speaking it's kind of awesome seeing 1 on there |
Ashen
10.14.15 | oh sweet ford is unbanned lol |
evilford
10.14.15 | eh LOOE is better |
evilford
10.14.15 | "oh sweet ford is unbanned lol"
yeah bday present from Dev tehee. he's a good fella. |
Totengott
10.14.15 | I can't call 3 DM, but a 5 rating for that is accurate to me, overall bad, some nice ones though. |
romulanrancor
10.14.15 | y'know they gave symbolic a 3 :/ |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | Celtic Frost best DM band |
evilford
10.14.15 | "y'know they gave symbolic a 3"
WELL that pretty much eliminates all credibility I saw them as having |
brainmelter
10.14.15 | Celtic frost rules
at the gates is great by no 5 |
evilford
10.14.15 | headdesk |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | As a DM list this is pretty shit though, half aren't even DM |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | He reminds me nothing of Snox besides the name |
evilford
10.14.15 | 3/5 best album ever |
FearThyEvil
10.14.15 | Allmusic is trash to begin with. |
evilford
10.14.15 | only album that should be here out of what's already here is 5 tbh |
evilford
10.14.15 | well you hate metal so |
demigod!
10.14.15 | really friggin strange selection like wtf wildhoney? album rules but doesnt come to mind at all when i think dm |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | Death grew off me after listening to them for 6 years. Then again I pretty much hate prog metal. |
Ashen
10.14.15 | we can set aside our differences and rejoice in the fact that 5 unquestionably rips. |
evilford
10.14.15 | only thing death ever released that wasn't at least a 4.5 is TSOP, #truth |
evilford
10.14.15 | yeah just listened to 5 the other day it was a religious experience |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | They seem to go (most of the time) with the influence card for their 5/5, at least for other genres... which still begs the question as to why something like Seven Churches isn't a 5/5... |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | Death will always have a place in me heart tho |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | I hear ya sasH dude but I include Human as amazing then it goes downhill. |
Ashen
10.14.15 | homo things like philosophy and common sense |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | What you got against Satan anyway? We are all his children |
evilford
10.14.15 | lmao |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | philosophy and common sense? pffft it ain't exactly Nietzsche is it.
Sacrificial cunt > |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Tell that to Barney, he spins the first three constantly.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/no-kidding-goat-strolls-through-4128409 |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | this thread is gettin' good rn |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | van drunen lyrics > chuck lyrics
srsly! |
Ashen
10.14.15 | i challenge you to stop posting |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | inb4 sach says "is there really a difference when it comes to you?" |
evilford
10.14.15 | metal can be challenging, i.e. obscura (the album) |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | Trvth was talking about the lyrics dude |
evilford
10.14.15 | I listen to death to transcend |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | transcend or be washed away by the awe-inspiring ocean of light |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Who listens to music for the lyrics?"
I hope you're joking |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | I challenge you people to stop getting so butthurt about Sachiko's opinions lol |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | I don't even listen to death metal tbh, I'm just interested in the thread |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | And yeah metal for the most part is music first, then lyrics... |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | a lot of the userbase was thinking the same thing about your bar Bar Sachiko rating tbh |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | Lyrics aren't always secondary. In folk and hip-hop they're often the focus. |
DikkoZinner
10.14.15 | I'd be ok with a different ATG album |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | yeah most stuff pre-2004/2005 was primarily lyrics-based
but then came trap music
EDIT:Yeah this is complete bullshit, please ignore this |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | "good music cannot be ruined by bad lyrics"
hmm.... not so sure about that. |
DikkoZinner
10.14.15 | Hey now opeth's not DM |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | and the only ATG album that well and truly deserves a 5 is WFIKTBD |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Bad music cannot be redeemed by good lyrics"
this really isn't the case, some old-school hip-hop's quality was based primarily off of the lyricism
(especially in the late 80's early 90's where the rhymes were really what people listened for) |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Lot of stuff being spouted here but what the fook is trap music? |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Lot of stuff being spouted here but what the fook is trap music?"
Wocka Flocka Flame, Migos, Rae Sremmurd, Young Thug, Future, 2Chainz basically that kind of stuff |
Ocean of Noise
10.14.15 | @zakal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "You're listening for the flow of the rhymes, the cadence of the delivery, the rappers ability to spit. Lyrics can help that. But at the end of the day, if the rapper is fucking hopeless, no good lyrics are going to save his ass... The beats remained a contributing factor, and although the lyrics held importance, if you removed everything else, they would not a great album make alone."
"You're listening for the flow of the rhymes, the cadence of the delivery, the rappers ability to spit."
in some cases this is the case as with party songs and such, but then you have battle-raps which really are listened to for the insults and wordplays. Also there are rappers like KRS-One and Immortal Technique whose entire careers are built *specifically* around their subject matter, with beats taking a step down in importance for their albums.
"if the rapper is fucking hopeless, no good lyrics are going to save his ass..."
you can't be hopeless if you have good lyrics tbh
"The beats remained a contributing factor, and although the lyrics held importance, if you removed everything else, they would not a great album make alone."
yeah back then the rhymes and the beats were like peanut butter and jam, you couldn't have one without the other. the rapper served a a way to hold the audience's attention when and make them interested when the beat wasn't enough |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Oh that stuff. Cheers lads. Funnily enough I think it totally rules. Greatest single movement since punk |
Sevengill
10.14.15 | AllMusic does a better job than most commercial sites. Except when they gave Paris Hilton's album a 4.5/5 |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Oh that stuff. Cheers lads. Funnily enough I think it totally rules. Greatest single movement since punk"
Agreed 2Chainz and Future are the Fugazi and Dead Kennedys of this generation |
BigDixRLameStix
10.14.15 | tf happened here |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | an internet fight happened |
BigDixRLameStix
10.14.15 | y can't u guys just listen to or not listen to ur edgy screamo in peace |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | because it is essential that we argue over whether or not great lyrics can make for a good album |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Them spoken word beat poets are wankers to a man. |
DikkoZinner
10.14.15 | Boogie Down Productions / Will always get paid |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Has anyone in their right mind sat through that shite and not cringed at least once and thought Christ almighty what a total nutsack? |
BigDixRLameStix
10.14.15 | I agree with Sachiko |
TheSonomaDude
10.14.15 | 4 is the best yah |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "if you were to remove all of the beats, the rhythm of their delivery and all of the things that make their music, well, musical, would you still listen to it??? Would the lyrics, on their own, hold the attention of the audience?"
if you took away the beat, it wouldn't even be hip-hop let alone music.
The rhythm/beat is an essential element but it is NOT ALWAYS the main focus hip-hop. With those artists I mentioned earlier the beats are arbitrary, they just need to be basic rhythms and they'll suffice for whatever the rappers mentioned want to say. |
basikchanL
10.14.15 | beats>lyrics |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | Zak criticized that Boogie Down Productions song, but it actually works within the context of my argument, the beat there is total shit on its own, that's why KRS is there, his delivery is clear and his lyrics are straight to the point, basically showing that the lyrics there are the main point of focus *and* the source of appeal for fans of that album/song. You might think it's shit, but that's beside the point |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | DISCLAIMER:I'm not saying the lyrics are better than the beats, I'm just saying that there are examples where the lyrics are THE main focus of appeal for listeners as opposed to the beat |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Has anyone in their right mind sat through that shite and not cringed at least once and thought Christ almighty what a total nutsack?"
considering the critical acclaim and cult following that album has gotten, there's probably a ton of people who did that |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | So what I get from this thread is that ovtrvth fuels his own ego with psuedo-intellectual bull shit like "challenging music".
If I want to be impressed with words I'd read literature [2]
|
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | good 4 u |
Ashen
10.14.15 | for me personally, bad lyrics can very easily ruin an otherwise good album. but, it depends on the album. it depends on many things. there isn't really a yes/no answer. |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | ^^^^^This was what I was talking about the whole time |
Rice303
10.14.15 | Well I'm pretty sure there are other genres that wouldn't survive without lyrics, like practically any pop genre |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | lmao pop is the exact opposite |
zakalwe
10.14.15 | Woah hang on a sec Shark dude I'm not slating boogie down productions. I was talking about that coffee house, beat poet, beret wearing stream of conscious cobblers. |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | oh, in that case I agree hard
sorry bout that m8 |
evilford
10.14.15 | I like cheese. |
Rice303
10.14.15 | I was meaning that without lyrics pop songs would just be the same beat and power chords for the entire duration, would be pretty boring to listen to |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | that's not what the argument was about, the argument was about the subject matter of the lyrics |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | "this really isn't the case, most old-school hip-hop's quality was based primarily off of the lyricism"
Agree with most of what you're saying Shark, but no. |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | accidentally typed "most" instead of "some" smh |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | now that's fine :] |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | Pretty sure the arguement was about lyrics in metal music. |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | It deviated a bit from that tho |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | Sachiko asked if the lyrics mastered in any music tho |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | flow tho |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | but different flows mean different rhythm so it's part of the music... |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Isn't this largely contradicting your argument? Lyrics are not the beat, there is no inherent rhythm of lyrics, there is nothing aside from the words and their supposed meanings."
you still don't get what I'm trying to say do you? Okay I'm going to put this in all caps and space this out so you can get what I'm saying:
I DID NOT SAY THAT IT WOULD LOSE ITS APPEAL IF THE BEAT WAS TAKEN AWAY. I JUST SAID IT WOULD NOT BE HIP-HOP. THOSE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
If you looked at my comment regarding the Boogie Down Proiductions song you'd read that THE APPEAL IN THAT SONG AND THE ALBUM WITHIN WHICH IT FITS ARE NOT LISTENED TO AND WELL REGARDED 30 YEARS LATER FOR THEIR BEATS(WHICH ARE RUDIMENTARY AF), BUT FOR THEIR LYRICS.
YES THERE ARE MANY ALBUMS AND SONGS WHERE THE LYRICS ARE SIMPLY A COMPLEMENT. I AM NOT DOUBTING THAT, BUT IN MANY OTHERS THE LYRICS AND WHAT THEY SAY ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AND MAKE UP FOR AT LEAST HALF OF THE SONGS' APPEAL.
Do you now understand? |
IHateRadiohead
10.14.15 | damn sharktooth is angry af bout to end sachiko's career |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | does most music depend on the instruments? Yes. But is a very ignorant thing to say that this the case for everything under the banner of music.
It's pretty much on the same level as if I were to say that all harsh noise/drone/power electronics albums objectively suck because they lack melodies. |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | "It is more dependent upon the delivery rather than composition of the lyrics tho. If you look at someone like young thug, who can't write lyrics for shit, he could write whatever he likes and still make it flow through his slurred as fuck and weird enunciation of syllables and whatnot. The lyric's role is secondary."
But the flow is the the bridge between both lyrics and the beat, it is what connects these two aspects together so I really don't see how you could say one is secondary to the other... |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | *a complement most of the time |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | hey you know what?
I think we can agree here i.e. you can love foreign music without understanding a thing about what the artist is saying.
Although I really feel like it really can dictate the thought behind the music and that can play a role in your enjoyment. |
CK
10.14.15 | Not on sputnik |
Mystletainn
10.14.15 | Lyrics are the least important thing when judging music |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | Fuck Sach... it can UNDERMINE the music if the lyrics don't match with the feeling of the music, create another perspective on the sound... I know it's faint, but it is there. |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "Yeah true, one isn't really secondary to the other, however, lyrics are not enough to dictate the musicality of a piece."
we're talking about the appeal of the piece for listeners tho. And yes there are plenty who value the lyrical messages over the beats.
"100% of the time.
Unless the lyrics are the entire appeal, and everything else is made irrelevant, it is a complementary factor.'"
so basically if the lyrics were 99.999999999% the reason for a song's appeal then they aren't as important as the beat which holds 0.0000000001% of the appeal?
Great logic pal
"It can dictate enjoyment and the messages music conveys, but NOT MUSICALITY."
assuming that musicality and appeal are the same thing
"Lyrics are the least important thing when judging music"
I've already stated examples where that is not the case |
TheCrocodile
10.14.15 | "Lyrics are the least important thing when judging music"
smh |
worthlessscab
10.14.15 | people listening metal for the lyrics smh |
BigDixRLameStix
10.14.15 | why is this such an issue |
hal1ax
10.14.15 | this thread is a bukkaki storm |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "That a complement does not mean anything in regards to value, it just means the lyrics aren't the only fucking factor to take into account."
I was going by the context of the word complement, where it's just an additional thing that "completes" something, like the sauce to a meal, and not the meal itself. so I was a bit pissed with the way you worded it tbh
anyway I didn't really mean to offend you, and we both got our points across so let's just call it a day |
SharkTooth
10.14.15 | "99 is still the complement of 1 and vice versa, regardless of their relative values."
That makes no sense imo but it doesn't matter tbh |
rockandmetaljunkie
10.15.15 | Allmusic is more reliable than Sputnik, even if it futures some shit rankings and reviews. |
Ocean of Noise
10.15.15 | depends on the genre. when it comes to metal this is the site to go to. |
SharkTooth
10.15.15 | Allmusic has a bigger database tho |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | That just means more terrible reviews. |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | Reviews and ratings are interchangeable. |
rockandmetaljunkie
10.15.15 | "depends on the genre. when it comes to metal this is the site to go to."
Wouldn't say so. If you want to unveil a number of underground metal bands then yes, Sputnik is the site you're looking for (even if, when it comes to the database, Metal-archives is truly the site with the biggest database). But if you want reliability and objective reviews, you go to Allmusic. |
SharkTooth
10.15.15 | thing is Allmusic has a shit ton of writers, some of which suck, and some of which are great |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | Is there a list of who's great and who's terrible? |
BigDixRLameStix
10.15.15 | I mean if I wanted to discover more metal or more of a lot of genres I'd use RYM over Sput. |
brainmelter
10.15.15 | man this thread went ham while I was gone |
Source
10.15.15 | This thread has become a living breathing entity with its own consciousness |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | what should we call it? |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | The conversation keeps evolving into multiple topics |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | that's not a good name |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | I wasn't trying to name it though |
deathschool
10.15.15 | When you really look at this list, you realize that Allmusic is retarded. |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | that's not a 5 tho |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | this isn't math class |
IHateRadiohead
10.15.15 | in what world does 4.9 equal 5 which also equals 1? |
AlexKzillion
10.15.15 | All of them
|
evilford
10.15.15 | I like cheese. [2] |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | I don't believe you |
bloc
10.15.15 | Don't see what the problem is here, most of us jack off to the majority of these albums anyway |
deathschool
10.15.15 | It's just the fact that they've snubbed albums far more deserving of classic status, and this is coming from an overall death metal pleb. |
deathschool
10.15.15 | Obviously, since this list has more than 200 comments |
evilford
10.15.15 | just jacked off to 5 the other night soooooo gooooood |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | lol |
evilford
10.15.15 | I'm guessing captain |
brainmelter
10.15.15 | yeah this list is rather weeeeeaaakk
only like 3 of these are classic |
Keyblade
10.15.15 | "yeah most stuff pre-2004/2005 was primarily lyrics-based
but then came trap music"
yeaaah imma call bullshit on this little bit of revisionism
i agree with sach tho, lyrics are way down the list of important factors in music, hip hop included. it's like caring about whether a girl has cute feet or something |
evilford
10.15.15 | "i agree with sach tho, lyrics are way down the list of important factors in music, hip hop included. it's like caring about whether a girl has cute feet or something"
wellllllllllllll I mean they're "down" the list but I wouldn't compare them to feet. legs would be an appropriate step up imo :3 |
Keyblade
10.15.15 | honestly |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | a womans feetz is of utmost importance |
bloc
10.15.15 | "It's just the fact that they've snubbed albums far more deserving of classic status, and this is coming from an overall death metal pleb. "
But then people would complain about the list being boring and predictable |
TheGreatQ
10.15.15 | Why did I waste time reading this entire thread |
Relinquished
10.15.15 | cuz you're dumb |
Mystletainn
10.15.15 | that was a pretty bad pun Sach |
Keyblade
10.15.15 | "on the lyrics discussion it's obviously stupid arguing such a very small subjective quality. obviously some people appreciate lyrics more than others. personally i love lyrics and there are some artists i listen to because i appreciate the words over the music or even their voice. and some artists really do ruin songs with stupid lyrics.
i can see how some people wouldn't give a fuck but hey it's a very small preferential quality that doesn't need to be discussed. the same way i appreciate and single out drumming a lot of the time when listening to bands (with drummers...), whereas someone else might not give too much of a fuck about the drums. as a drummer i'm just naturally inclined to really focus on drum sound and rhythm and so on"
yeah this is fair |
brainmelter
10.15.15 | it was alright sach. lel
and a womans legs are a 1,000x more important than her feet |
TheSonomaDude
09.13.17 | wow what a sad list, even if TSOP and BWP are on it |
Orb
09.13.17 | Allmusic's judgement and/or knowledge of dm is absolute hogwash apparently. |
Allergist
09.13.17 | There are a few good albums on here but only like 3 are actually death metal |
Madbutcher3
09.14.17 | 1 5 and 8 are great at least |
neekafat
09.14.17 | They're probably all shit |
Madbutcher3
09.14.17 | nah |
TheSonomaDude
09.14.17 | 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 12 are all good albums |
Sevengill
09.14.17 | they got the ones I've heard right (2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10)
|
ShadowRemains
09.14.17 | 5 is the only 5 here, but at least they got one of em that's an achievement for allmusic |
Snake.
09.14.17 | allmusic is literally the most useless site |
zaruyache
09.14.17 | a wild shadowremains appears |
Sevengill
09.14.17 | http://www.allmusic.com/album/paris-mw0000779108
http://www.allmusic.com/album/symbolic-mw0000174284
that's all you need to know about AllMusic |
parksungjoon
10.18.21 | bet |
GhandhiLion
10.18.21 | good site for jazz and country yeah |
parksungjoon
10.18.21 | this list is so bad and fucking lol at 13 |
parksungjoon
10.18.21 | actually fucking lol at 12 too but for a completely different reason |
