Calc
10.10.15 | I carry a gun for my job and a bunch of OGs just got let out of jail in my area at the same time and they are soldiering up again so this is probably my last list =( |
grannypantys
10.10.15 | I love shootin stuff as much as any patriot but id be in favor of some serious gun restrictions. Stuff like forcing gun owners to also have gun safes. Requiring serious background checks(including at gun shows and secondary markets). Also people that show symptoms of mental instability like a suicide attempt should loose their guns as well.
People are resistant to changing gun laws because they think the government will go too far and really there is no perfect formula to eliminate all gun deaths. I still think it is worth the effort though. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | a lot of what's making these shooting so common is media portrayal, these shooters are becoming famous overnight and having their faces put on the television, getting other knuckleheads to see an easy opportunity to get attention by doing these shootings, it's just a self-feeding cycle |
Ashen
10.10.15 | gun toting texan here
aggreed w/ granny |
InFlamesWeThrash666
10.10.15 | this is gonna be fun |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | this looks like something that should be posted on the political forum |
Calc
10.10.15 | "a lot of what's making these shooting so common is media portrayal"
i knew someone would bring this up but is the media "portraying" anything as much as they are just reporting it? I also dunno how much fame has to do with these as most the people who start down this path know they are going to die one way or another when the act is over. I'd say it's mostly illness. |
Keyblade
10.10.15 | idk what it is about entitled young white dudes who can't handle not getting laid that makes them want to massacre people but it's scary af I'd imagine that it is piss easy for them to acquire the weaponry to do it. don't have a stance on the law either way cuz I don't know much about them, not my country etc but that's just my perception |
Republican
10.10.15 | Stuff happens. |
Calc
10.10.15 | you think "being dead" is really good? please explain this nonsense that you would have no idea about!! |
deathschool
10.10.15 | I honestly don't know what it is about this site that made you think that trying to have this discussion would be even a slightly good idea. |
chemicalmarriage
10.10.15 | Hate to be the guy that works all week on a review for a site that hosts community masturbation census and lists like these. Great review now lets talk bout beating off an shooting people |
treeqt.
10.10.15 | it's called social media you're welcome |
17WordHaiku
10.10.15 | it sucks because it's almost impossible to predict. for example, just because a mentally stable person purchased a gun in 1995 does not mean they will be stable in 2015. so what do we do at that point? do we have mandatory mental evaluations every five years or what? i just don't think any restrictions would make a difference. people often compare statistics from other countries but how could you possibly compare a country of 20 million to 300+ million? by that alone we automatically have a higher chance of dangerous and mentally ill people being born into the country. you just can't compare the success that a different country has had with gun control to the U.S. |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | kick the weapon lobbys ass goddammit |
Calc
10.10.15 | "I honestly don't know what it is about this site that made you think that trying to have this discussion would be even a slightly good idea."
when you've been here a while you don't give a fuck anymore. |
Calc
10.10.15 | "People kill not guns you dirty tampon Brits. Nobody wants to ban cars even though more people die in car accidents then in shootings. It is our right as Americans to own guns. That's why America is the best place on earth."
the point of a car isn't to kill things. A gun is. not that I'm disagreeing with you, that's just a shit argument. |
Ryus
10.10.15 | i hope that guy is joking |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | 1.5 million deaths involving firearms in the U.S since 1968. That's more than the combined amount of U.S solders killed in every war the U.S has ever fought.
Mental health exists everywhere, black market firearms exist everywhere, tighter gun controls exist nearly everywhere, nowhere has them statistics.
Wake up yanks. |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | No it hasn't dude. It has everything to do with unregulated firearm control. 1.5 million! Come on now son. |
Wolfhorde
10.10.15 | ^ what zak said. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | "A Texan without a gun is like a man without a penis. Something is wrong here"
you clearly have something of substance to say in this thread |
beefshoes
10.10.15 | ^
I have no sympathy or patience for those who argue for no or less gun control.
Every reputable study I've ever seen has shown that less guns leads to a lower homicide rate and a dramatically lower suicide rate.
I went to high school with 3 people who committed suicide with guns, and one was a vegetable for over a week before his parents decided to pull the plug. It's certainly possible that they could have still killed themselves without guns, but there's no time to reconsider suicide after you've already put a gun to your temple and pulled the trigger.
It's also ridiculously childish to prioritize an unfettered access to guns when there are literally hundreds of school shootings every year, and at least one major mass shooting every week with innocent people losing their lives. Mental health is also a major issue in the U.S., but the notion that you have to prioritize one issue over the other is a false dichotomy that's largely fueled by gun manufacturers and interest groups like the NRA. |
Ryus
10.10.15 | [2]
gun control is not the only solution that must be implemented, but it sure as hell is one of them. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | the big problem is it's probably going to be a long time before that starts happening, since there are a lot of groups who will go apeshit over the thought of ---any--- gun control |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | @Shark I'm sure the NRA would love it. After all they are so reasonable. |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | Yep you're right Futures but......Watch the figures tumble |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | It's not the NRA's fault specifically, the NRA's main focus is to keep their reputation of being powerful and tough on Congress, but the NRA's power is largely dependent on its membership and supporters, it's when small groups of 200 or so members start complaining that the NRA is forced to do something, regardless of the group's actual position, just to keep its image |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | A Texan without a gun is like a man without a penis. Something is wrong here
was that argument meant seriously? if so you just shot yourself in the foot |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | I'm a Texan and no that probably wasn't serious |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | Well, in all honesty the NRA's main fault is its very existence. How can an organisation, whose practically only goal is to ensure everyone gets their gun, stay alive for over a century and remain as powerful as they are? It's pretty much the strangest NGO ever. |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | destroy all the guns is what i say. |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | 'für over a century.'
german confirmed |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | @Futures that is kind of a circular argument, isn't it? You can't restrict guns cause there are already too many of them and anyone could get one no matter what? If you restrict and control everything from the production to the use of guns, there would be less guns and I'm quite confident that not even half of the people in the US that own a gun now would actually try to get one on the black market. |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | "i am right zak. gun control may work in smaller countries but it wouldn't work in the gun infested United States"
Nobody else other than a yank could say that. |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | @Flug Austrian actually. |
beefshoes
10.10.15 | "if a dude wants a gun with gun control is in place they will find a gun."
Anyone who argues that gun control will make it impossible to get guns is just as naive as anyone who argues that more guns leads to less murder and suicide.
There are always ways to get guns (especially when one wants a gun bad enough), but the point of gun control is to make it more difficult to legally get them. Almost every prolific mass shooter in the last two decades has legally purchased guns and ammo. I could walk into a pawn shop or a flea market right now in WV, and leave with a gun and ammunition in 20 to 30 minutes.
Also, your claim that gun control wouldn't work in the U.S. is warrant-less. In cities like NYC with tougher gun laws, homicide and suicide rates are dramatically lower than areas with no or little gun control (with some exceptions like VT and NH). |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | @futures
burn em, and the factory's where they beeing made |
Flugmorph
10.10.15 | @sowders and you prob have a small penis |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | @Futures well, you know, you do have police and could probably execute certain gun laws like you do it now with other laws. If there are guns everywhere, confiscating them would be quite an option, even if they wouldn't be all gone from one day to another. |
Calc
10.10.15 | "there are 112 guns per 100 residents. are those guns just going to magically disappear?"
they don't need to disappear they need to be controlled more, and along with that the national guard, police force, the feds, and responsible people have singular access to a huge number of these guns, there just needs to be a fix for the rest. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | "No shit there would be less homicides if there were no guns. But I want to shoot deer and cans in my backyard and guns are cool so who cares"
gun control doesn't mean the government automatically taking away your guns dumbass, the second ammendment is there for a reason |
beefshoes
10.10.15 | "there are 112 guns per 100 residents. are those guns just going to magically disappear?"
That's a great point, and I haven't a clue as to how that problem could be approached. You could create a financial incentive like a tax deduction for those who turnover guns to encourage less gun ownership, but it'd be extremely costly and I doubt it'd be very feasible in the first place. I think that Australia just rounded up guns, but I wouldn't go that far since it'd be a clear violation of the 2nd amendment.
Your contention still isn't a sound one against gun control however. Having gun control would at least help to keep that number from growing.
|
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | @Futures You're going by the logic that if not everybody will happily oblige to such a law, it shouldn't be implemented at all? If only 50% of people would turn them over, it would already be a significant change. |
Judio!
10.10.15 | Gun control is a wonderful thing yes |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | gun control should not be about confiscating guns from everyone, because that would never even make it past congress without getting laughed out
What *can* be done is more restrictions on the trade of guns at stores or at fairs where the trade is completely unmonitored, enforced regulation on gun-trade including background checks would be an appropriate action in keeping citizens safe |
Judio!
10.10.15 | "No shit there would be less homicides if there were no guns. But I want to shoot deer and cans in my backyard and guns are cool so who cares"
Lmao, a dude who tortures cats and brings handguns with him to band rehearsals coming to the defense of guns. Perfect. |
Judio!
10.10.15 | "gun control should not be about confiscating guns from everyone, because that would never even make it past congress
What *can* be done is more restrictions on the trade of guns at stores or at fairs where the trade is completely unmonitored, enforced regulation no gun-trade including background checks would be an appropriate action in keeping citizens safe"
Agreed yeah, that's the realistic option. But confiscating guns from everyone would be badass. |
Nud
10.10.15 | Yes its true people kill and you cant blame the gun. But at the same time if i were to live in america i wouldnt go to college or the movies or anywhere in public without packing heat incase some guy starts shooting up the place. And that just makes another mofo walking out into general public with a gun and potential to take a lot of lives. Yes the guns arent to blame but at the same time here in australia we dont have this issue (or it is very, very rare). Fuck the guns off |
Judio!
10.10.15 | ^yes |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | Actually I think even rather minor changes aren't a really realistic option. Just too risky to bring it up for any high profile politician. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | |
Judio!
10.10.15 | It's definitely not Kris |
ShadowRemains
10.10.15 | you all should see hillaryclittongue's view on this matter over in the AP section of the forums
jeeeeeeeeesus |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | @Sowders in that case why don't you go to Mexico where things are even worse than they are here |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | It's not just the NRA though. No Republican would ever risk losing quite a lot of his core voters by suggesting or supporting something like that. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | That's why a Democrat could do it |
Ryus
10.10.15 | for the love of god stop |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | A Democrat could, but are they strong enough? I must admit, I'm not too familiar with the legislative process in the US, but for the last couple of years it looked like the Republicans are quite good at blocking almost any major plans by Obama. And since guns are one of the most controversial topics in the US anyway, I don't see anything big happening there. |
Keyblade
10.10.15 | it's lists like this that make me glad hillary is banned |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | it *almost* actually happened once, after the Sandy Hook shooting, a bill similar to the one I proposed actually had bipartisan support, but what happened was this conservative small group of (I imagine) rednecks who couldn't read started a panic by telling people their guns were going to be taken away, which caused like 200 people who didn't even bother reading the bill to start calling the NRA and the NRA, ever so afraid of being called pussies, put pressure to oppose the bill.
Case in point the NRA is the only major roadblock to my idea, if their supporters took a bit to know about the bills being proposed we might actually get somewhere with this |
Ryus
10.10.15 | http://time.com/4068040/barack-obama-gun-control-executive-actions/ |
beefshoes
10.10.15 | A President can't do shit about guns.
It's up to Congress and state governments, and since the GOP controls Congress and the majority of states legislatures, I don't see anything happening for a long time (even though ≈75% of the country supports closing the gun show loophole and expanding background checks). |
Calc
10.10.15 | "Actually I think even rather minor changes aren't a really realistic option. Just too risky to bring it up for any high profile politician."
I don't think so anymore... I imagine people are pretty tired of these mass shootings.The only thing keeping anything from happening right now is $$$$$, not the second amendment or anything of the sort. I also don't quite get the "don't blame the gun mentality" yeah it's a tool blah blah blah and you can murder somebody with a toothpick if you really wanted to but imo there's a limit to the dangerousness of a thing and guns far and way surpass that limit. It's so ridiculously easy to kill somebody with a gun that it'd be irresponsible to just place all the blame on sick people and ignore how dangerous guns are.
not saying anyone is doing that here, just saying. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | Yeah guns need to be treated with more seriousness, but confiscation is still not the answer |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | 'One love deprived mallcore retard shot up a school so everyone should lose guns.'
There have been 298 mass shootings so far in the US this year
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
Yes everyone should lose guns. Why exactly do you need them? |
Ryus
10.10.15 | yeah all of those mass knife murders and school knife killings have been really devastating
meanwhile guns are necessary everyday tools |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | "There have been 298 mass shootings so far in the US this year"
What the fuck?! More than one mass shooting per day? What are people in that country doing? |
Ryus
10.10.15 | extremely concerning statistic |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | You NEED them, because it's your constitutional right. Well, there's a good argument...... |
Ryus
10.10.15 | lol sowders |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | Somehow I think it's enough that there were multiple people wounded for it to be serious. |
deathschool
10.10.15 | God, this argument is getting to the point of truly bottom barrel depression. Please see zak's original comment for my viewpoint on the matter. Besides that, I really can't deal with this argument. School shootings are way too fucking common. Something has to be done. And btw, most mass shooters don't have a history of mental illness. Are they mentally ill? It's entirely fucking plausible, but it doesn't matter, because they show less warning signs than the mentally ill that are unfairly targeted because gun rights "activists" would rather put the blame on a group of humans that are much more likely to be victims over killers than admitting that tools created strictly for the purpose of killing human beings may in fact be used to make killing humans easier. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | "those numbers also include gang violence and instances were nobody was killed"
in that case this was a bit of an exaggeration, since gang violence is not really something that will be curbed by gun control
(as those guns were obtained illegally to begin with) |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | "Yep true, here in America we have school shootings every day at my school. Every single day some kid walks into our school and shoots up the place. No one even cares anymore"
Shut the fuck up Sowders |
Snake.
10.10.15 | http://www.sputnikmusic.com/images/members/1061753.jpg |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | Sowders is every brain dead pro-gun comment in one person. Quite amazing actually. |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | "So you think every mass shooter just woke up one day and said "hey I'm gonna shoot some kids today for shits n giggles?" No. Mass shooters are mentally ill. They have thought of killing for years and they finally snap. This is as dumb as people think suicidals just kill themselves after one bad day of school. "
The shootings listed included gang-violence, which is an everyday thing all over the continents, which makes those numbers unfit for this discussion |
deathschool
10.10.15 | Please refer to my original comment about mental illness, Sowders. |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | Yeah it's a slightly high statistic, but there are still too many non-gang related shootings, I'll try and find a statistic.
And you clearly have no idea about how mental illness works Sowders. |
deathofasalesman
10.10.15 | http://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/ |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | Sowders is probably trolling |
SharkTooth
10.10.15 | Oh yeah, because I surely wasn't aware of that before |
Crysis
10.10.15 | Gun control will do nothing. If any of you have ever bought a gun, you will know that you fill out an ATF Form 4473 and have a NICS background check run EVERY TIME you buy a gun from a store or from a vendor at a gun show. Private sales are already regulated in many states and even in those where they aren't the law still applies (illegal to sell to felons, etc.). Hell in my state (NH, where private sales do not need a background check) you'd be hard pressed to find a private seller on a site like Armslist who doesn't demand to see a CCW permit before they will even think about selling to you. The many, many laws and regulations that are in place pertaining to firearms are adequate.
The real problem is that nobody gives a shit about mental health in this country, resources to treat one's illnesses aren't readily available, and every time someone shoots up a school they get instant fame by these sickening 24-hour news networks who plaster their life story everywhere and instantly politicize a tragedy. Blame the gun if you want, but that's putting blinders on and finding the easy scapegoat. |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | "Well gang violence has been around for years and one of those things that won't go away if guns are banned"
They would still have a harder time killing each other. That's the whole point. Guns make it just awfully easy to kill someone compared to pretty much anything else commonly used as a weapon. Prohibiting that might not be the worst thing. |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | that's a better statistic yeah, still shocking though
and no, gun control will stop these shootings. In Europe (UK at least) we have very strict laws about guns and you never hear about mass shootings, whilst according to that statistic you get an average of one a week. what else could possibly be the reason? |
Crysis
10.10.15 | It's easier to ban guns than to be good mothers and fathers to our children, to teach them right and wrong, to mentor them and make them understand the value of human life, to scold them when they are out of line and explain to them why, to lead by example, to help them when they are in need, and to be a good fucking person.
Nah, that's too much work. Let's ban guns. |
flalafell
10.10.15 | guns shouldn't really be available to the general population in my opinion, yeah i get the second amendment but that was made at a different time with different circumstances. I highly doubt a civilian militia would be able to overthrow the government at this point |
flalafell
10.10.15 | but i also agree wholeheartedly with crysis |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | so because someone didn't die it makes it ok?
and i was looking at the article deathofasalesman linked that focused solely on school shootings, not gang violence |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | The thing is, a mentality that treats gun ownership like it is a human right and acts like guns actually make ones life safer isn't helping. The first point is plain stupid and actually violent, the second one is disproved by pretty much every statistic there is on that topic.
And since people in the US don't seem to be too eager to lay off that mentality, restricting the availability of fire weapons further is pretty much the only option, if one wants to make sure less people get killed. |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | people still haven't explained why they actually need guns, or why the US is affected by this so much more than other highly developed societies |
Crysis
10.10.15 | "I highly doubt a civilian militia would be able to overthrow the government at this point"
This hinges on your assumption that the Army would not side with the citizens. Ask around from people in the service and you'll quickly realize that wouldn't necessarily be the case. |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | I know it's hard to grasp but very few people with mental health issues harbour thoughts of wanting to go out an commit mass murder. I don't know why mental health comes into it.
The majority of these bell ends just have massive inferiority complexes exacerbated by living in the states.
An actual diagnosed mental health problem probably isn't on the scale of these people, their just cunts with easy access to weapons.
GP zak |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | seconded |
Crysis
10.10.15 | "people still haven't explained why they actually need guns"
because the constitution says we can have them. literally the end of that argument.
"or why the US is affected by this so much more than other highly developed societies"
because our healthcare system is abysmal |
Crysis
10.10.15 | i think people are under the strange assumption that if guns are suddenly banned and seized from people who bought them then the gangs of LA, Chicago, Detriot, etc. will suddenly be weaponless
but don't worry kids won't be shot at school anymore, just thousands of poor, underprivileged people in the inner city because who fucking cares about them, right!? |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | "because the constitution says we can have them. literally the end of that argument."
For one thing a constitution can be changed. It's called an amendment, very much like that fucking second amendment that tells people owning guns is one hell of a great thing. Secondly that is no reason, why guns should be there. The fact that something is allowed, isn't already a justification for its existence. That makes no sense.
|
TheGreatQ
10.10.15 | everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/
Not a school shooting map, that's a map of guns being fired on schools. Calling someone accidentally discharging a gun the were cleaning, a suicide in the parking lot, or someone being a dumbass on an empty soccer field a school shooting is absurd to the point of intellectual dishonesty. |
Crysis
10.10.15 | It can be changed, of course. It won't, but it can. As long as I am alive I will stand behind the second amendment and I will let my representatives know how I feel. That's my right just as much as it is for you to say how much you despise it (even though you are not an American and presumably have never actually been around firearms or understand how regulated they are here). |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | In all fairness, kids having guns with them at school is kind of worrying, even if they don't want to shoot the guys that bullied them for the last few years. Why does this happen nowhere else in the supposedly civilized world, but pretty much only in the US? |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | "but don't worry kids won't be shot at school anymore, just thousands of poor, underprivileged people in the inner city because who fucking cares about them, right!?"
Thousands of people who despite having a forced hand still have a choice of making their bed and lying it
When your six year old has had their head calved in two by some nob head with a shooter you'll be banging on the door to get the system changed dude. |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | Crysis, you're making good points but there's no way gun control would make absolutely no difference. It might not be the be-all end-all, but it would be a step in the right direction. |
flalafell
10.10.15 | "This hinges on your assumption that the Army would not side with the citizens. Ask around from people in the service and you'll quickly realize that wouldn't necessarily be the case."
absolutely agree with that but it wouldn't necessarily be just the army that the civilian militia would have to contend with. I would highly doubt the countries we actively trade with and protect with our military would sit idly by while the united states was in a full blown civil war. And even if this militia were successful in overthrowing our government, what would we be left with? would we resort to socialism or communism? would we have independent self-governing states with no true union? there aren't a lot of great alternatives, if any, to what we have now so overthrowing our government would almost assuredly doom the united states to being a shell of what it is now, which kind of means the second amendment is irrelevant |
chemicalmarriage
10.10.15 | If this thread played out in real life i would imagine most of you standing up and angrily spouting your opinion, then sitting down to check your phone, wondering why everyone is so stupid and you are so smart |
flalafell
10.10.15 | that's not to say that what we currently have is great, but its at least relatively stable, and establishing a new government isn't exactly the easiest or smoothest process |
KrazyKris
10.10.15 | ^I wouldn't check my phone, but other than that you might be right. |
KILL
10.10.15 | guns are for pussies, use your fists of truth to squash those who oppose |
chemicalmarriage
10.10.15 | Kill for president |
Crysis
10.10.15 | itt: ethnocentrism |
ParanoidAndroid96
10.10.15 | I'm actually anti-gun don't talk to me |
deathschool
10.10.15 | "i think people are under the strange assumption that if guns are suddenly banned and seized from people who bought them then the gangs of LA, Chicago, Detriot, etc. will suddenly be weaponless
but don't worry kids won't be shot at school anymore, just thousands of poor, underprivileged people in the inner city because who fucking cares about them, right!?"
So because gun control addresses one of these issues and not the other, it's a waste of time? I'm not even on board with the fact that it won't help alleviate the former, but you're saying it will help with school shootings, I think. You're just saying that it's not enough. Well, it seems like a start. |
Judio!
10.10.15 | Bernie Sanders 2016 who's with me |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | 123 |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | Bernie Sanders would be the best thing to ever happen to America. Hell, he would be the best thing to ever happen to Canada. I wish he were running here instead of the three goofs we have to choose from. |
deathschool
10.10.15 | America does not live in a bubble. If something works in other countries, it's very likely to work here. Seriously, what makes America so special? The biggest difference that we have going for us is that we can't learn from the successful example of others in fear that it somehow cheapens our ideals. Like "we didn't come up with that, so there's no way in hell we're modeling after it." |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | deathschool ily |
Judio!
10.10.15 | Well said Death |
RadicalEd
10.10.15 | As a european, I always struggle with the rational behind being against gun regulation. I don't believe in a "ban" because I think that would just lead to another "War on Drugs" type situation.
As far as I can see the constitution of the U.S. guarantees a right to bear arms, because the founders of the constitution thought it necessary to have a "well regulated milita". From my understanding the gun-situation hardly well regulated in the US. Also it has to be noted, that the constitution has been written in a time, where the strongest available firearm was a huge rifle that could be fired like twice a minute, not an automatic gun that could spray dozens of bullets in the blink of an eye. So I don't think it's entirely valid to look at the amendment as something that's written in stone and can't be updated.
I definitely can sympathize with the opinion that Crysis just gave, the guns ARE used as a scapegoat, but that doesn't automatically invalidate all criticism against a "free gun market". If you look at the numbers, they are hardly debatable. No other country in the "western world" has a comparable number of gun related violence, nor a comparable number of murder sprees. Yes. Black Markets do exists in other countries. Yes. Terrible gun violence does happen. But far less so. And I don't think it's a big leap to point to the availability of almost military grade weaponry in the US as a factor in this. |
KILL
10.10.15 | but dude america has like 4095843095830945 gunz its too late! |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | Death yet again shows class. Which is funny considering he's the fella whose probably got a gun rack indoors. |
Crysis
10.10.15 | the second part of that post was entirely sarcastic, apparently that didn't come through
i'm saying that the amount of people killed in "mass shootings" at schools, etc (the kind of stuff that CNN jumps all over) is literal tear drops in the ocean when you look at gang violence in poor, inner-city areas. that's fine, though, because most people watching CNN only care about the lives of more privileged people that they can relate with. you'd be damn hard pressed to find a gang member with a legal weapon, yet they kill VASTLY more people and nobody gives a shit.
it's maddening that many people who argue gun control do so on a basis that is centered around lives that are deemed as "more valuable" in their eyes. these shootings are shocking because they can place themselves in a situation like that at the community college or at sandy hook. where a vast, utterly overwhelming majority of gun violence takes place are in areas where a lot of people wouldn't dare set foot, yet a lot these places happen to already have that wonderful "safety net" of laws that makes legally acquiring firearms more difficult.
people think that once laws are passed and it becomes harder to legally obtain firearms they can just go back on with their lives and feel like they've done something worthwhile while people in LA or Chicago or wherever are still massacring each other over some white powder or a fucking plant |
KILL
10.10.15 | i'd like to hear resident political analyst sonictheplumbers opinion on the matter where is his ass |
RadicalEd
10.10.15 | "i'm saying that the amount of people killed in "mass shootings" at schools, etc (the kind of stuff that CNN jumps all over) is literal tear drops in the ocean when you look at gang violence in poor, inner-city areas. that's fine, though, because most people watching CNN only care about the lives of more privileged people that they can relate with. you'd be damn hard pressed to find a gang member with a legal weapon, yet they kill VASTLY more people and nobody gives a shit.
it's maddening that many people who argue gun control do so on a basis that is centered around lives that are deemed as "more valuable" in their eyes. these shootings are shocking because they can place themselves in a situation like that at the community college or at sandy hook. where a vast, utterly overwhelming majority of gun violence takes place are in areas where a lot of people wouldn't dare set foot, yet a lot these places happen to already have that wonderful "safety net" of laws that makes legally acquiring firearms more difficult."
None of this is actually an argument against a stricter on control of guns. Let's say only the mass shootings at schools go dramatically down when restrictions come into place, and everything else stays the same.
Wouldn't it still be a step in the right direction? |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | should just start mass shooting the police tbh, population control and an end to their tyranny all in one go |
KILL
10.10.15 | pots dude thats some crazy canada talk |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | The varying degrees of murder.
Warfare, gangland, crimes of passion, the slaughter of innocents.
What one is the most shocking? What one can be reduced with simple legislation? |
Crysis
10.10.15 | "None of this is actually an argument against a stricter on control of guns."
Nor was that post meant to be. It's a venting of frustration towards people who suddenly get all up in arms over gun control because nine people at a college were murdered. There are places where nine people are murdered every weekend, yet armchair warriors don't talk about that because it's not on the front page of Huffington Post today. If you're going to make an argument about gun control, be consistent, just like I will be consistent about arguing against it regardless of if a school shooting has happened or if there is increased gang violence.
I'm done here, I've made my point in a place that is quite hostile to my attitudes, which I knew going in. I let my feelings be known where it really matters: on the ballot. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "pots dude thats some crazy canada talk"
sure, if u are completely unaware of how fucked up the police force in the states is |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | ban guns globally
bring back sword wars
swords and axes and shit |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | lol ov |
KILL
10.10.15 | ov pretty sure thats how scotland still operates |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | don't be stupid most of them couldn't even lift a sword, it's what all the whisky and deep fried mars bars do to you |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | the answer is have Canada invade america, make potsy president to nationally legalise weed and make Rush's 'Tom Sawyer' the national anthem. |
zakalwe
10.10.15 | You're having a laugh! Have you seen that sword William Wallace carried around? Fucking ridiculous! |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | i met this big ass scottish dude at a liquor store next to my friends house a few months ago. Not sure what his name was but my friend says he goes by Saltboat. Moral of the story is he was buying a large amount of tequlia for whatever reason and he had a sweet van and he had a big ass claymore in the back. My friend says he is around the store all the time and he hangs out with him every once in a while. He seemed like he ruled, then I went back to my friends after the liquor run and continued slaying halflings in D&D. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "make potsy president to nationally legalise weed "
legalizing weed would be so low on my list of priorities as president u probably couldnt even find it |
Wolfhorde
10.10.15 | "ban guns globally
bring back sword wars
swords and axes and shit"
Please become a U.N. spokesperson. |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | what would be your first priority? |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | potsy would make animal masks mandatory to "Mask our outermost layers and let our true animal instincts come forth and frolic to lead to a more peaceful and majestic tomorrow"
his words not mine |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | yeah what ovrot said |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | fuck yeah i want a crocodile mask |
torts
10.10.15 | swords are for real men guns are for pussies lol
-torts |
Wolfhorde
10.10.15 | I'm calling shotgun on an Anubis or Ra-mask. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | tbh my priority would be completely overhauling the military and police budgets and systems in general and firing the fuck out of any policeman with any sort of major offence against the public with no severance and try them in court again as common citizens and investigate the fuck out of every police department and restructure their hiring processes and force all police to undergo more training and screening |
alienobserver
10.10.15 | i'd vote for u for that tbh |
Wolfhorde
10.10.15 | ^ seconded
the institutional practices and pathologies across the pond are just flat out fucking ridiculous and no "hurr but they're ther to serve and protect they're working a hard job cut them slack!" changes any of that. |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | would not vote for potsy
didn't even mention a riff |
torts
10.10.15 | potsy 2020 |
Wolfhorde
10.10.15 | "would not vote for potsy
didn't even mention a riff"
just vote KILL as speaker of the house or something |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | yeah and then we can put all the sexual and physical offender cops in the chair after their new trials and just wipe them off the planet cuz we got way too many fucking people anyway and the prison system is just as fucked. we need to get non-violent offenders the fuck out of there and balance spending on prisons cuz its pretty fucked. to the chair with rapists and murderers u can get fucked if u think my tax money is going towards feeding those pieces of shit! |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | then id pull all military out of the east and send them to ontario to destroy stephen harper and free canada of his reign of terror (if he is re-elected) |
torts
10.10.15 | yep we're all voting for u next election on god
-torts |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | then we'd jam some riffs. |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | the chances of Harper being re-elected seem pretty slim. fingers crossed... |
alienobserver
10.10.15 | us has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners. Blacks, who make up 13 percent of the U.S. population, were 38 percent of the state prison population. justice system my ass |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "the chances of Harper being re-elected seem pretty slim."
that is... very inaccurate
but yeah here is to hoping, after the lowest of low federal election turn out from young people last time it seems like all the kids and young adults that felt apathetic last time are realizing how bad they fucked up and now there are just hordes of angry young people ready to vote, hopefully its enough and hopefully the new election laws and such dont make it so difficult for our generation to vote that lots of people dont bother |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | The polls have shown the Liberals in the lead for the last 3 days (by 10 seats, at that) after a steady rise in support over the past month. Let's keep in mind, also, that the polls tend to exaggerate CPC support. After all, who is it that's sitting at home, with nothing better to do, picking up the phone and telling the pollsters who they're voting for? Old, retired people.
Plus, a ton of young people plan on voting in this election, at least from what I can see. I'm very hopeful. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "who is it that's sitting at home, with nothing better to do, picking up the phone and telling the pollsters who they're voting for? Old, retired people."
yes but thats just that, old retired people are an extremely inaccurate sample, using data almost entirely pulled from old farts isn't valid enought to generalize to the population, it could really go either way. not to mention the uncovered election fraud of the last federal election that everyone seems to have completely forgotten about... which harper then made new laws that inhibit the ability of investigators to look into election fraud making it easier for it to be pulled off this time around (not that it mattered then either anyways... nobody did shit about it...) and the new electoral laws that make voting more difficult for basically the entire demograph that the conservatives are worried about... young lower middle class - poor...
there are a lot of ways this could go right now, keep your guard up.
anyways im all for liberals winning just for the lesser of two evils thing but im really pullin for NDP
voting liberal in my riding would be throwing my vote away anyways. |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | I would probably vote NDP too, but my riding is very strongly Liberal so yeah
But yes that's fair. tbh though even if he still wins this election his days left in office are numbered. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "But yes that's fair. tbh though even if he still wins this election his days left in office are numbered."
so are my days in Canada if conservatives stay
"I would probably vote NDP too, but my riding is very strongly Liberal so yeah"
yeah, gotta vote strategically man. better get harper out together than nit-pick about who to get him out with right now.
but yeah the saanich - gulf islands (i live in Victoria) are one of the only places in Canada where voting green party isn't a throwaway lol. and boy do they capitalize on that. their entire campaign relies on convincing gullible dumb-fuck hippies that NDP is pro kinder morgan (a blatant lie) and that its impossible to split the vote in our riding because liberals and conservatives are so poorly represented here. its fucking ludicrous man, green parties campaign here is literally just like "yo ~ENVIROMENT~" followed by the aggressive bashing of everything the other parties believe (or don't even actually believe) with literally next to NO talk about what Green party themselves actually want to do here...
but yeah, dumbfuck hippies, Elizabeth May actually has a pretty good chance of getting sent to Ontario because these idiot sky-clad woo-children of the sun-clan are completely fucking jaded
|
Ovrot
10.10.15 | "sky-clad woo-children of the sun-clan" sounds like a cood band |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | ya some acid psych shit |
Shoteru
10.10.15 | I'm always baffled by how comfortable a lot of Americans are with guns in general. For me in the UK, it's very rare to see guns irl or even hear about people who own them. I'd feeling nervous knowing there was a gun in the same room as me, let alone carrying it with me at all times for 'protection'. Just seems so backwards. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | yeah america is shit agreed |
Cygnatti
10.10.15 | [2] |
TheCrocodile
10.10.15 | what is this thread. |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | [3] |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | silk |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | just because its ethnocentric doesn't mean its not fucked up |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | american stupid-ism |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | he's basing his bemusement with gun culture in america by the values of his own, so yeah its ethnocentric but it just so happens that the values of his culture happen to be a hell of a lot less shitty than americas when it comes to guns. |
Cygnatti
10.10.15 | so ethnocentrism is ok when americans do it (patriotism! land of the FREE! despite our millions and millions of incarcerated!!) but not when other more socially sound countries do it, k then ._. |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | ty pots you're awesome |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | what does that have to do with how frighteningly violent the usa is? |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "so ethnocentrism is ok when americans do it (patriotism! land of the FREE! despite our millions and millions of incarcerated!!) but not when other more socially sound countries do it, k then ._."
1 2 3 to infinity to be honest,
americans calling out ethnocentrism is pretty cringey... and thats me putting it nicely
|
Shoteru
10.10.15 | that's why I said 'seem', I'm aware that what I'm saying is from an outsider's perspective, so I will be basing my judgement off comparisons to my own experiences. I just don't understand how owning a gun would make someone feel safe. Owning a gun to protect yourself from other people with weapons won't help long term, it just makes a country filled to the brim with dangerous weapons. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | if u need a gun to feel safe in your own country u dont live in a safe country and then logic follows that the issue isnt the guns, its the fucking country |
Shoteru
10.10.15 | if u need a gun to feel safe in your own country u dont live in a safe country and then logic follows that the issue isnt the guns, its the fucking country
[2] |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | yea the guns are a symptom |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | lol wow aight we all found a place of mutual agreement and this didnt get out of hand like very other gun control convo on this site nice going guys this is a new day for sput |
Shoteru
10.10.15 | the gun problem just makes the bigger issue even more obvious |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | getting rid of the guns will help tho, it's like a fever |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | "yeah because that's totally possibly!" yeah i'd agree it's totally possibly! |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | its kind of a vicious cycle tho, a violent country makes guns accessible to everyone under the sun so they can protect themselves from the violence and threat of violence of other violent people by threatening them with violence to disuade them from threatening your security and safety... with violence
which then perpetuates the entire cycle endlessly so that no one is safe and everyone has a gun. what can u do then? good luck taking them away... |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | i have to agree with futures it would be a real hard feat to get rid of guns in a lot of states with their current condition. it may be ideal, but like, if u can actually think of a way where that would work please present it. how would u take the guns away from people in states where everyone has a gun? make them illegal? TERRIBLE idea. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | getting rid of guns would be a long and arduous process |
IGetMyMSG
10.10.15 | maybe america should do a real-life purge |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | “a112 guns per 100 people in the united states" factoid actualy just statistical error. average person has 0 guns in the usa. MRA Georg, who lives in cave & has over 400,000 guns, is an outlier adn should not have been counted |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | yeah let's just get rid of the us altogether |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | stay civil man |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | You can blame a lot of the fucked up mentality on the fact that America has grown so rapidly in 200 - 250 years the country's been around. In historical terms it's still having a major identity crisis. If you want a comparison look at Israel for instance. Too much power, too little experience. |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | man vio-lence rules
whats wrong with you guys |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | well it's also a fact that mra georg has like 400,000 guns himself, do you really think every single human being in the united states has 1.12 on average? |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | statistics are often pretty easily discredited tbh
not saying either way, i havent looked into it much so i dont know which of u is right but blindly accepting statistics is a bad idea sometimes |
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | show me the standard deviation, then we can talk |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | ted nugent exists |
Ocean of Noise
10.10.15 | dude it's a fucking joke |
TheCrocodile
10.10.15 | "You can blame a lot of the fucked up mentality on the fact that America has grown so rapidly in 200 - 250 years the country's been around. In historical terms it's still having a major identity crisis. If you want a comparison look at Israel for instance. Too much power, too little experience."
South Korea didn't have this problem tho so |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | because south korea is comparable in size to the US |
TheCrocodile
10.10.15 | but Isreal? |
EyesWideShut
10.10.15 | "Guns dont kill people, the government does" - Dale Gribble |
ResidentNihilist
10.10.15 | @TheCrocodile; Born from a violent struggle, can't come to terms with it's own past, blames everyone resulting it in being overly xenophobic and repeats the mistakes of the country's principals it was set up to oppose. That's speaking in broad terms and platitudes but still.
Also in regards to South Korea, the very fact that the country is split into two is proof of that kind of identity crisis as well as the ongoing issues with Japan. Perhaps not as severe as Israel etc. but still similar principal just differently executed.
Probably not explaining it that well but w/e |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "Also in regards to South Korea, the very fact that the country is split into two is proof of that kind of identity crisis "
truth hard |
Ovrot
10.10.15 | rather death then false of faith |
TheCrocodile
10.10.15 | "South Korea, the very fact that the country is split"
Think you meant Korea there tho. Anyways, thanks for the intelligent response for a thread that could use some haha... still useless thread.
Still think generalizing in saying that America is fucked because they became big in 200 years is a lil silly ;P |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | "Think you meant Korea there tho. Anyways, thanks for the intelligent response for a thread that could use some haha... still useless thread."
there has been a tonne of respectful and insightful convo on issues that usually get out of hand on this site, don't be immature and try to discredit that to heighten your own sense of ego and relevance, its petty.
|
Asdfp277
10.10.15 | how is it possible to generalize the usa, there's literally only one usa |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | lmao |
Sevengill
10.10.15 | "there's literally only one usa"
actually there are three usas. two are in japan. |
TheCrocodile
10.10.15 | "don't be immature and try to discredit that to heighten your own sense of ego and relevance, its petty"
sorry if it sounded like that, should've elaborated. Thread just seemed like people getting real emotional with their point of views and usually nothing good comes out of it. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.10.15 | everybody has been really respectful to each other for the most part, shit usually blows off when it comes to these topics |
Shoteru
10.10.15 | I dont think people have come across as overly emotional at all tbh |
TheCrocodile
10.11.15 | figures, not exactly easy topics to discuss... I just don't like most of the edgy opinions around here... Again, not to sound intelligent or anything as I don't even think I have the experience and facts to have an opinion on this matter. I just fail to see how this thread will help for anything that's all. |
Shoteru
10.11.15 | No one is saying it'll help anything, a bit of civilized debate is just nice once in a while |
SharkTooth
10.11.15 | "getting rid of guns would be a long and arduous process"
it'll take at least a decade before people become even comfortable with the idea here tbh |
ResidentNihilist
10.11.15 | That's ok Croc
In regards to America though, you gotta remember that when it was established the pre-existing dominant culture of the American Indians was gradually being subsumed/forcebly assimilated into the culture with none of it having any influence on the hegemonic culture and when they cut off their ties to Britain after the War of Independence, it became a flailing kaleidoscope that's been repeating the mistakes of the British Empire (in different ways) and not really embracing it's roots as they're so anathema to the kind of Calvinist/Captilist mentality of America.
TLDR |
TheCrocodile
10.11.15 | This sadly happens a lot with dominant countries taking control of foreign lands. Europe basically rekt Africa too... |
Riviere
10.11.15 | Ban mental illness. |
Keyblade
10.11.15 | "the second part of that post was entirely sarcastic, apparently that didn't come through
i'm saying that the amount of people killed in "mass shootings" at schools, etc (the kind of stuff that CNN jumps all over) is literal tear drops in the ocean when you look at gang violence in poor, inner-city areas. that's fine, though, because most people watching CNN only care about the lives of more privileged people that they can relate with. you'd be damn hard pressed to find a gang member with a legal weapon, yet they kill VASTLY more people and nobody gives a shit.
it's maddening that many people who argue gun control do so on a basis that is centered around lives that are deemed as "more valuable" in their eyes. these shootings are shocking because they can place themselves in a situation like that at the community college or at sandy hook. where a vast, utterly overwhelming majority of gun violence takes place are in areas where a lot of people wouldn't dare set foot, yet a lot these places happen to already have that wonderful "safety net" of laws that makes legally acquiring firearms more difficult.
people think that once laws are passed and it becomes harder to legally obtain firearms they can just go back on with their lives and feel like they've done something worthwhile while people in LA or Chicago or wherever are still massacring each other over some white powder or a fucking plant"
so much truth right here fuck |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 |
"so much truth right here fuck"
Like I said earlier, there is a lot of truth in what crysis said, except the conclusion he draws from it is: "Fuck it let's just keep it the way it is"
And I think we can agree that the way it is, is pretty shitty. Regulating guns won't be the magic switch to solve all problems of violent crime. But the stats in all other western countries indicate, that it would help. |
titanslayer
10.11.15 | It's because " local stuff no one hears about" is being made national stories because it's easy money for everyone involved (politicians, lobbyists, the media) |
Keyblade
10.11.15 | I don't disagree that regulation would probably help in some capacity, but I think what Kyle was getting at is the fact that the gun discussions only surface when these school shootings take place but nobody cares that 15 year olds are getting killed everyday over some dumb shit |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 | "and as i've pointed out you can't compare much smaller countries to a the us population and b the number of guns in the us"
Why? I don't see what the number of inhabitants has to do with it tbh. What is your argument? That people in the US already have so many guns that you might as well not bother regulating them? I don't think that line of logic holds up. |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 | "just look at the number of guns already in the united states. are those going to disappear overnight after these laws are put into place?"
Of course not. But I'm asking again, how is that a point against gun regulation? Even if it won't solve every problem, don't you think it would help restricting the access to new guns? |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 | I mean I'm not living in America. But they are not really heavily regulated compared to europe. Also private citizens can get their hands on weapons that are just off limits for private citizens in countries like germany. |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 | What could it lead too?
I mean, I'm not advocating some 1984 type of shit with the government swooping down on everyone and taking the guns. |
RadicalEd
10.11.15 | Are you referring to stuff like the War on Drugs? If so, I definitely see your point, but again, the problem with that stuff is that it was basically are scare-campaign mixed with a total ban of drugs. I don't think anybody in their right mind advocates to outright ban guns and just push everything into the black markets. |
