Tunaboy45: General Election 2015

Tunaboy45 03.30.15	here we are
Flugmorph 03.30.15	i don't know what it wants from me but it has amazing albums in the list
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	and that's all that matters in the end :]
Judio! 03.30.15	The last question is the only one I care about tbh.
Archelirion 03.30.15	I don't have a clue who I want to be in, to be honest. Cameron's a massive fuckwit, Clegg is insipid, I expect Milliband to be a blundering mess and Farage... just nah. I am VERY excited about new Peep Show though.
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	Last series, going to be sad to see it go The people who support Farage probably think that getting the immigrants out will solve every problem in the country.
PlatonicMushroom 03.30.15	Not familiar with UK politics but if u have more people like this http://youtu.be/FjelVwbu6vM I'm massively jello
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	^ unfortunately not
Archelirion 03.30.15	I know, but we'll have 9 series of probably one of the best sitcoms ever made so we can be thankful for that - as far as I'm concerned, the fact that it's got to even this stage and isn't shit shows how brilliant it is. Yeah, I live about 10 miles from Dover and came from the constituency Farage is representing locally so it's like UKIP central down here. Some absolute nutjobs.
PlatonicMushroom 03.30.15
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmByTbkiGvU @Aaron like this guy
Archelirion 03.30.15	Haha, yeah that's exactly the sort of thing although picture the guy with a slightly more Essex accent
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	I wouldn't be surprised if UKIP got elected in a couple years time
beefshoes 03.30.15	Labour has blown for decades, but new Labour is just as bad or worse than the Tories.
Tunaboy45 03.30.15	I agree, there aren't any real strong candidates. Keeping the NHS should be the main priority (at least imo)
Ryus 03.30.15	i dont know anything about UK politics tbh but peep show rules
beefshoes 03.30.15	What's the argument/alternative against NHS? More privatization and deregulation?
YakNips 03.30.15	my votes for FourthReich
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	Tuna you can't even vote -_- I was originally going to vote the national health party but after seeing the debate and realising how shit the tory policies are and I really don't want to see the nhs be privatised. I think I'll be going for labour, especially as I'll be a student next year too. I don't think labour are that much better and they'll do a shit job too but I font trust politicians anymore, so it's all about damage limitation from now on.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	I do feel sorry for ed milliband though. He might not be as suave as Cameron but he doesn't deserve all the ad Hominem that goes towards him, especially the shit about his brother
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	I'm so close man, it's fucking killing me
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	I have nothing against Ed
someguest 03.31.15	I would like to see each candidate submit themselves to a five minute verbal decimation brought on by Jimmy Carr.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	He doesn't come across as someone who you want to lead the country is what it is. That's an understandable point but then again, I can't see farage or clegg doing it either. You should go on the studentroom for political debates. They're the funniest and more retarded thing you'll ever come across
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	Frankie Boyle for PM I'll have a look at it, rarely ever go one there unless I'm desprerate for answers (and even when I do it's usually something trivial, nothing political).
ExplosiveOranges 03.31.15	Farage vs. Abbott. Go.
anarchistfish 03.31.15	more worried about how well the FN is doing in France tbh
anarchistfish 03.31.15	"You should go on the studentroom for political debates. They're the funniest and more retarded thing you'll ever come across" lol got any examples?
anarchistfish 03.31.15	nvm found some lol fuck http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3218319 http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3150883
PlatonicMushroom 03.31.15	"and lol @ anyone who votes for Defense Leagues" I agree, but at least in Scandinavia, the debate on certain things is so ridiculously polarized, partially because of leftists who stomp around calling people they disagree with 'nazis' (unwarranted namecalling obviously further their cause), that i just can't take the left seriously anymore and i'm almost considering giving my vote to neocons
DatsNotDaMetulz 03.31.15	I am a member of the Green Party so that should offer some idea of my vote.
anarchistfish 03.31.15	yeah if I vote I'll vote green
ScuroFantasma 03.31.15	If you vote for anything other than green you're wasting your time, best thing to do is either not vote or vote greens. NHS privatisation seems like a terrible idea to me, and the whole foreigner argument is complete tripe. Shit like that and in Australia our huge 'boat people' argument is used to distract. Poor people are not the ones with all the money, it makes no sense to argue that they're draining the economy.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	@scuro that's exactly why I wanted to vote national HEALTH party. But like I said, I really don't want to see the tories in power again so I'm going for damage limitation now
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	@fish too many tsr members are deluded with their middle to upper class lives and have no idea exactly how bad the tories are. I mean they bring up all these excuses as to why labour is bad but all I can say is fucking HSBC
anarchistfish 03.31.15	yeah this is like listening to my father
Archelirion 03.31.15	'I would like to see each candidate submit themselves to a five minute verbal decimation brought on by Jimmy Carr.' - Yeah, that'd be an interesting watch. Some of them might even make it to the end without crying. NHS privatisation scares me, but it'll happen I reckon - I think there's already been deals made that will make it very difficult to reverse what motion has already happened.
anarchistfish 03.31.15	"yeah nah not a fan of the greens at all" give them a few years to allow them to mature their policies and I think they could become a credible democratic socialist party
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	I can't even think of anyone who would want the privatisation of the nhs. I near, who in their right mind even thinks that it's a good idea? Aside from the corporate giants
BigPleb 03.31.15	Fuck em all tbh, probably leaning towards Labour but the thought of Ed Milliband running the country is quite a terrifying one tbh.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	Lol we'd be a joke on the international stage. He just hasn't got the right presence
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	The NHS is arguably our greatest asset
BigPleb 03.31.15	Saying that, I'm not voting for a bunch of pompous sods who cater to the middle class and not the working class that keeps the country on it's feet...aka the Touries.
anarchistfish 03.31.15	tbh I find it funny that all the time people complain about politics being so centred around image now and yet they all slam miliband for not having the right "presence". "Welcome to the Australian situation." no your leader is just a cunt
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	I think Miliband is the best out of the main candidates, but that's not saying much.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	It's not enough to deter me but I know plenty of people who are put off by that
Archelirion 03.31.15	Yeah, I agree with you Tuna. I can't see him being like Blair (i.e. war criminal in the making) so there's that going for him. All we're gonna hear for the next 40 days is not so much putting points across, but vague sounding policies mixed with slagging the opposition off like a playground battle. And yeah, at least we don't have Abbott.
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	The televised debates always come down to them slagging each other off at every given opportunity.
ChoccyPhilly 03.31.15	When Paxman grilled the pair of them, that was pretty insightful but I didn't like how the audience was attacking ed rather than the party policies. The stuff about his brother was unnecessary and irrelevant
Tunaboy45 03.31.15	I agree, there was no need for that
Tunaboy45 04.01.15	Haha did anyone else get one of those "labour today" papers in the post?
JohnnyoftheWell 04.01.15	"If you vote for anything other than green you're wasting your time, best thing to do is either not vote or vote greens." No. I would vote Labour on health, Conservative on the economy and Conservative on Europe (regardless on whether or not you believe we should stay in the EU, there has to be a referendum soon, otherwise the tension will just keep rising and the situation will become increasingly unstable). However, I'll be voting Lib Dem in my constituency because the only other party with a chance is Labour.
anarchistfish 04.01.15	"otherwise the tension will just keep rising and the situation will become increasingly unstable" yeah brits don't realise how sick and tired the rest of europe are with the uk's threats to leave "Conservative on the economy" lol
JWT155 04.01.15	MR SPEAKA!
ScuroFantasma 04.01.15	@johnny yeah might not apply necessarily to the UK but that's just how I see it, especially here. Why the hell we have the Liberal party in power now is beyond me, especially with Abbot at the helm.
JohnnyoftheWell 04.01.15	Ah sorry, I assumed you meant that in a UK context; our Greens are a joke.
zakalwe 04.01.15	It's going to be the first time I'm not going to vote, it's frightning to think the only alternative is Farage and his bunch of dumb cunts. I'll go to a polling station and submit me slip but it'll have something like a smiley face on it, or 'clampdown' or I'm a UK citizen I need to be told what to do and what box to cross. You know something studenty and wanky but I've still a part to play.
JWT155 04.02.15	Bollocks.
ChoccyPhilly 04.02.15	http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3235019 People on tsr really are idiots at times. This is about a ukip proposal that tuition fees be made free for stem students and most people are agreeing because anything that isn't stem is 'mickey mouse' and not worth doing
anarchistfish 04.02.15	http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2015/apr/02/democracy-psychology-idiots-election?CMP=fb_gu
anarchistfish 04.02.15	"This is about a ukip proposal that tuition fees be made free for stem students and most people are agreeing because anything that isn't stem is 'mickey mouse' and not worth doing" god I fucking hate this kind of person. do they not even realise that even their precious positivist science is based on philosophical ideas?
Tunaboy45 04.02.15	That's completely ridiculous
Tunaboy45 04.02.15	anyone watching the debate?
anarchistfish 04.02.15	yeah. wanna kill myself already
Tunaboy45 04.02.15	It seems that one of the main focuses is keeping the NHS, which is fair enough. But yeah, the rest isn't great.
anarchistfish 04.02.15	You just can't deliver clear informed arguments in a debate that's structured like this.
anarchistfish 04.02.15	I'm sitting here with my tory family and all they do is react positively to the buzzwords they're biased towards and negatively to the buzzwords they're biased against but none of it is based on any logic or fact. That's all these debates are about.
Snake. 04.02.15	cameron doesn't deserve another term
Tunaboy45 04.02.15	One person says something, another laughs and tries to come back with a different point that either gets laughed at or has no relevancy to the current discussion. You just can't deliver clear informed arguments in a debate that's structured like this.[2]
Tunaboy45 04.02.15	"I'm sitting here with my tory family and all they do is react positively to the buzzwords they're biased towards and negatively to the buzzwords they're biased against but none of it is based on any logic or fact. That's all these debates are about." Holy shit this, you win. People I know are the same, they just react how they always have without putting any other thought into it for fear of being judged, disagreed with by many, etc.
anarchistfish 04.03.15	seems like farage shot himself in the foot a bit with that dumb comment on hiv doesn't seem like the debate will have changed too much though. sturgeon seemed to do well but even that probably won't affect the election too much since snp are scotland only. wonder if a labour/snp/green coalition is possible. could be our best hope tbh
anarchistfish 04.03.15	media seems v. confused https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.911570692235090.1073741857.889565331102293&type=1
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	Those HIV comments have pissed a lot of people off by the looks of it.
zakalwe 04.03.15	The HIV 'comments' are just in relation to where the money is invested while cuts are being implemented.
PappyMason 04.03.15	Lets be honest, most of the things Farage says is dumb. The guy's a fool.
zakalwe 04.03.15	Indeed, but that's just the thing they all are. Their fools preaching to the self serving idiots of this country. You fear a baton change to any other moron to fuck things up even more - vote conservative You a downtrodden white person who can't lift a finger, yearns for a past that never existed and blames immigrants - vote UKIP. You a young, well meaning individual whose naive as fuck and lives in a hamlet with a population of 17 people -vote Green You desperately clinging to the socialist ideals that were abolished in the 90s and still harbour extreme hate towards the tories - vote labour You believe bullshit, feel a change is needed and want things run by a mothers meeting but there really is nowhere to turn - vote lib dem
bach 04.03.15	obama
PappyMason 04.03.15	So in other words, we're fucked. Welcome to life.
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	Nailed it zak
zakalwe 04.03.15	Just don't soak up the bullshit, stay clear of politics, live life and realise that people from all walks are complete cunts but the majority are good as gold. Love, treat others well, ride the lows, blast ya tunes and life will pay you back a billion fold.
Mort. 04.03.15	I did the proper english thing and went down the pub instead of watching the debate Probably voting green, because i feel as if my vote doesnt matter anyway and theyre simply the party thats nearest to my views. I do worry about how many people will vote ukip
anarchistfish 04.03.15	all I hear people say about the greens is that they're dumb but no one ever backs it up with any attempt at an argument "Just don't soak up the bullshit, stay clear of politics, live life and realise that people from all walks are complete cunts but the majority are good as gold. Love, treat others well, ride the lows, blast ya tunes and life will pay you back a billion fold." you make a point. I guess this depends how you wanna form your own personal life philosophy. but it's easier for some than others. even if I take this road deep down I'll probably stay a marxist til I die
zakalwe 04.03.15	It's all experience fish dude. The facts are growing up in Essex with the people I was surrounded with I was a racist, homophobic, intolerant narrow minded fool. That's not to say I was wrong though, just mis-informed. I've lived and seen all sorts of shite that would drive people up the wall but it's all lessons learned. You really do live and learn......just don't vote green for fucks sake.
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	UKIP supporters think that immigrants are the cause of all problems in the UK. They're deluded and thankfully not the majority. Let's keep it that way.
Mort. 04.03.15	To anyone who watched the debate, is it worth watching? Might watch it today
anarchistfish 04.03.15	not really
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	Go ahead, just don't expect anything more than petty arguments and excuses.
ScuroFantasma 04.03.15	Politics.
PappyMason 04.03.15	Immigrants have been scapegoats for the UK's problems for more than a century. Nothing changes, especially if we have narrow-minded fools in positions of power.
ScuroFantasma 04.03.15	Immigrants and poor people are always the problem. And for some reason people buy into that bullshit.
anarchistfish 04.03.15	"UKIP supporters think that immigrants are the cause of all problems in the UK. They're deluded and thankfully not the majority. Let's keep it that way." idk man there are a lot of tory and even labour supporters that feel that way to. this goes back to simple social psychology and the fear of the outsider. newspaper like the mail and the sun and parties like UKIP and the FN in france just take advantage of that, and them validating those emotions just makes the sentiment even more prevalent. "just don't vote green for fucks sake." idk man in case you've forgotten climate change is the single biggest issue in the world right now and they're the only ones that seem to take it seriously
Mort. 04.03.15	Tuna i wouldnt expect anything else haha Farage made a hiv related fuck up then did he?
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	kind of, he said that 60% of the 7000 people diagnosed each year were immigrants, basically blaming them again
Tunaboy45 04.03.15	I'm not shocked with what he said but it really angered some people going by twitter
ScuroFantasma 04.03.15	Haha wow, how is it their fault? I'm sure they're all sitting in a dark room plotting contracting diseases, getting ready to storm the UK. Seems likely.
PappyMason 04.03.15	Oh, and all that bullshit about EU membership. That's just a deflection technique designed to take focus away from important social and economic problems the U.K. is facing at home. Britain has always had a problem with the EU ever since the Union was created. Lets all play the blame game...
zakalwe 04.03.15	The greens literally don't even know what their proposing or what's stipulated in their own manifesto. Packaging problems that can be solved if we work together and labelling them 'environmental concerns' 'restructuring of moral fundamentals' 'supporting the less able' really does not take into account a population of 60million, some of whom would kill their own mother for '$' would rather spend money on fags then clothe their kids, whose only happiness is gleamed from a crack pipe, who abuse children, slit throats and are incapable of seeing a world beyond the end of the street. Their ideas are simply not sustainable.
ScuroFantasma 04.03.15	Better than the other parties more concerned with capitalism and lining their own pockets imo. Greens are a bit naive and farsighted for sure but they have a better world view then the selfish, upper class catering of the other major parties, at least the majority.
anarchistfish 04.03.15	"Their ideas are simply not sustainable." lol the irony
zakalwe 04.03.15	I knew you'd get it fish :D
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	I don't think greens understand how to actually run a government. I laugh whenever I hear Ed stutter. It's like an inexperienced kid doing his best and trying to do what's right but I gotta say that their policies are very appealing
MattTD 04.10.15	I can honestly see the outcome being a hung parliament and having to have a second election later this year, which would be good because I'd actually be able to vote in that rather than this one which is 9 days before my 18th birthday
Tunaboy45 04.10.15	Lot of UKIP posters and signs a few minutes down the road from where I live. It's mostly Labour up my neck of the woods.
JWT155 04.10.15	Damn commies.
MattTD 04.10.15	I think that Nick Clegg's a right dick for making sure that I'm £40,000 in debt when I leave uni, which makes it all the more annoying that the Lib Dem candidate in my area is really good.
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	Anyone but the tories and ukip tbh
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	After watching these debates, I can't think of anyone who would even want to vote UKIP. My 8 year old sister has better logic and rationale than they do.
Tunaboy45 04.10.15	Unfortunately there are many people who are fooled by Farage, thinking he's a "working man" just like them.
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	"He likes a good pint, he does... he's got my vote!" ignorance is bliss I guess
Tunaboy45 04.10.15	"I know nothing about politics but if he enjoys a fag and a tetley's he gets my vote"
JohnnyoftheWell 04.10.15	"I think that Nick Clegg's a right dick for making sure that I'm £40,000 in debt when I leave uni, which makes it all the more annoying that the Lib Dem candidate in my area is really good." Would have happened regardless of Clegg, and you need a decent income for it to count as actual debt.
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	I agree. I know it's a hue sum of money but it's not like a bank loan or anythin and you barely feel it
JohnnyoftheWell 04.10.15	University fees feel like shit, but they're actually a pretty nifty measure for pretty much all parties.
MattTD 04.10.15	I guess student fees aren't awful but considering that it was like 1/3 of that sum a few yrs back it's still pretty annoying
anarchistfish 04.10.15	gonna feel good being part of the only ~3 years that had to pay 9k
JohnnyoftheWell 04.10.15	Miliband won't actually drop it to 6k though, so we won't get to be exclusive.
ChoccyPhilly 04.10.15	I like to think that he will but the sad reality is quite the opposite
anarchistfish 04.11.15	yeah you're probably right tbh
MattTD 04.11.15	Yh, it's probably not actually gonna happen. Also have you seen that photo of him where he looks like he's in fucking Bombay Bicycle Club
zakalwe 04.11.15	What exactly are the student fees nowadays? £40000??? No wonder any hapless fucker can stroll into 'uni' to do a course on fuck all.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	bout £27000 but you can double that to include maintenance so about £55k
zakalwe 04.11.15	Ridiculous. Society has gone to the shitehouse. Academia at any cost literally. Dish out the A* but there's more divs walking around now then ever kerching!!!
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	^ Are you implying that the costs aren't high enough? Because I honestly have a hard time seeing what you're getting at. also lol at Anglosaxon educational systems. It seems that however you twist and turn it, they tend to manage less even if they demand shitloads of money.
zakalwe 04.11.15	Apologies wolfy to clarify. Education standards and grades are bumped making it a hell of a lot easier for people to remain in education for which the costs spiral into the ridiculous. People aren't sifted out by talent, just by what they can afford.
apert 04.11.15	my course is 6 years so get to leave with 6 figure debt yay
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"People aren't sifted out by talent" because this is the purpose of education..
zakalwe 04.11.15	Education is obviously for all but for the process of development being lumped in with a bunch of dumb dumbs with fat wallets is doing nobody any favours.
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	Oh yeah, that makes sense. I've actually read on that topic in the context of the American educational landscape. I generally think the model of students being customers is retarded as hell - although the university ratings here are also pretty much just a popularity contest of which a maximum of 3 points are about the actual education. I remember when these two fellows from this super expensive private business school had a presentation when I was in like 12th grade and holy shit they had terrible, inconsistent arguments and tried to deflect when someone was pointing out inconsistencies. From what I've gathered, a lot of "elite universities" also don't "produce" extraordinary people as much as they just attract them in the first place. Obviously there are some universities that have great facilities but that's another ballpark. But yeah, I pretty much hold the position that running thinsg like universities and prisons like private businesses is mostly an idiotic idea - particularly because an organization not being run like that doesn't have to focus on efficiency, on having a customer base (i.e. "being popular") - or in the case of prisons they don't have to cut corners. It may be less economically efficient in the short-term but in the long-term having an adequately educated workforce that didn't just get by or lower (intended) rate of recidivism with prisoners is both economically more viable (because you'll need less prisons/prison space, people can return to the workforce etc) and better for a well functioning society. But hey, that wouldn't roll with trademark Anglosaxon neoliberalism.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"But hey, that wouldn't roll with trademark Anglosaxon neoliberalism. " yeah what you said just isn't common sense!
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	"because this is the purpose of education.." I think you're mistaking concepts here. The right of people is to have equal ACCESS to education - that doesn't mean that everyone deserves a university level education - particularly if they don't put in the performance necessary. And lowering the standards so more people can do so gradually also has detrimental effects on said education. And I think what zak meant is filtering people out by performance. The same standard that should be applied in the economy.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	I noticed that my mother's been reading Celsius 7/7 by Michael Gove and it was at that point I more or less realised there was no hope
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	Doesn't ring a bell, what's it about?
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"I think you're mistaking concepts here. The right of people is to have equal ACCESS to education - that doesn't mean that everyone deserves a university level education - particularly if they don't put in the performance necessary. And lowering the standards so more people can do so gradually also has detrimental effects on said education." no I sort of agree with this but I think the whole education system below university level is inherently flawed, so I don't really like the idea that people who do badly only have themselves to blame or that they're "stupid", which is what I see a lot of people do.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"Doesn't ring a bell, what's it about?" michael gove is a tory politician. he wrote this book, about 140 pages long, on islamic fundamentalism. of course, with his 2:1 English degree he's an expert in this aspect of history "Times columnist Michael Gove, is one of Britain's leading writers and thinkers on terrorism and foreign affairs. In his column which appeared in the Times on the morning of 9/11, he prophetically argued that the West's policy of appeasement towards terror was destined to provoke yet greater atrocities. In Celsius 7/7, Gove explores the roots of Islamic rage, the historical factors which culminated in the current terrorist campaign and the Moslem world's troubled accommodation with modernity. He also analyses the intellectual roots and political appeal of Islamism, explains the factors behind Jihadi violence and places the current fundamentalist challenge in context. Combining a broad historical sweep with character sketches of key figures such as Michel Aflaq, Charles de Gaulle, Sayyhid Qutb, Donald Rumsfeld, Abu Musab al_Zarqawi, Henry Kissinger and Osama bin Laden, as well as a detailed survey of Western political failures, Gove's account is a shrewd and detached analysis that provides powerfully convincing recommendations for future action."
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"In the book he discusses both the emergence of Islamism and the West's response. It distinguishes between 'the great historical faith' of Islam which he claims has 'brought spiritual nourishment to millions', and Islamism, a 'totalitarian ideolog[y]' which turns to 'hellish violence and oppression' in a similar way to the 20th century ideologies of National Socialism and Communism.[1] He discusses the factors that led to the development of large-scale Muslim terrorism and how the West has failed to stand up for its liberal values in the face of this pressure, including his analysis of the alliance between Muslim fundamentalists and the Western left."
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	Well, yes and no. It kinda depends. It's a question of which metric is being used - which is sometimes more accurate - sometimes less accurate. I would definitely advocate for tests that actually assess performance that is relevant to the field of study instead of referencing things like GPA just for sake of consistency. And there are universities that still do this. Over here, there's also the thing that anyone who successfully absolved any kind of three year training is free to study at a university so that's pretty cool, too.
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	Sounds like a euphemistic description that boils down to another one of those vastly generalized, culturally insensetive and generally inconsistent arguments that scapegoats a particular group.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	personally I just think the class format doesn't lend itself well to people actually being interested in the subjects. not to mention the huge inequalities in the quality of education "Sounds like a euphemistic description that boils down to another one of those vastly generalized, culturally insensetive and generally inconsistent arguments that scapegoats a particular group." yea more or less. they're building a small muslim prayer centre down the road and it's all she's been going on about all easter. even my father is somewhat open to new ideas and perspectives, but you suggest something like marxism to my mother and she'll just mock it and say something about gulags
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	Well, honestly I don't really find traditional marxism any appealing given the vastly different circumstances of the different periods of time. The irony is that what evolved out of marxism, i.e. socialism has already influenced pretty much any Western democracy.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	That isn't the point though. Marxism can still give some interesting insights but first of all you have to suspend your preconceptions. Or you can argue against it, but you'd still have to understand what it's actually about first. Most people just aren't willing to suspend their egos or their bias in order to actually learn about different perspectives or ideas. But that's human psychology I guess.
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	Marxism provides an astute insight into our society but fails to provide a viable alternative.
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	However, aspects of that insight have allowed us to angle ourselves towards a more progressive direction, for better or worse.
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	Marxism sounds good in theory but in practice it just doesn't work- Russia being the prime example.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"Marxism provides an astute insight into our society but fails to provide a viable alternative." well yeah and the sky is blue "Marxism sounds good in theory but in practice it just doesn't work- Russia being the prime example." this sentence doesn't make any sense bro
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	"well yeah and the sky is blue" A lot of people overlook it very easily; I'm not being snide or patronising towards you or anyone else here, but I find that discussion about anything Marxist-related can get out of hand quickly unless you reiterate how flawed it is.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	yeah some people can get very zealous with it
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	"this sentence doesn't make any sense bro" I'm saying that Marxism lead to communism in Russia, and look how that turned out.
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	"Marxism sounds good in theory but in practice it just doesn't work- Russia being the prime example." Russia is more a demonstration of how Stalin (arguably Lenin to a lesser degree) used it to his own ends and distorted it. Admittedly, you could claim that it will always be distorted by individuals to some extent and that this extent will always render it unviable (I personally believe this), but Stalin was such a singularly massive influence of ideological corruption that I find it hard to accept Russia as the definitive example of why Marxism fails.
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	It just seems like there will always be someone who wants more than everyone else (Stalin in this case)
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"I'm saying that Marxism lead to communism in Russia, and look how that turned out. yeah well me going to college led to me blowing all my money on weed so I guess we shouldn't send anyone to college
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	There is actually a related case in the worth of many British degrees, but let's not go there.
Wolfhorde 04.11.15	One of the main issues I have is making the fallacy of assuming that Marxism or Communism is more democratic (it isn't, it's pretty much an oligarchy - except that the oligarchs are workers and soldiers), that would eliminate racism and the likes (spoiler alert: it didn't and can't and as a little fun fact: Marx was an antisemite). Although this is also somewhat irrelevant given that it's unlikely that any of these "older" systems would replace the ones that are in place now. Planned economies also tend to be terrible. I do somewhat agree with what johnny said regarding the influence it has already taken - as I have noted earlier, in forms of socialism and social democracy. The German constitution even explicitly states that Germany operates in a social market system.
anarchistfish 04.11.15	"Marx was an antisemite" Marx was an ethnic jew. Though yeah he did go on about "the jewish character" with regards to money.
zakalwe 04.11.15	Socialism Secularism ('faith' schools can fuck right off) Welfare state reform. Judicial system overhaul Increase tax with a view to giving people the choice of where their money is spent. Honesty and balance to come first over spinning a dream, bullshit and one sidedness. 'Transparency' can be binned unless you know what the fuck you're talking about before sticking your nose in. Open door policy, but there's a single entry point and anyone taking the piss to be slung out. Who's with me!!!!!
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	I remember when there was an EDL demonstration in a nearby town...
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	Sounds like a cute dream.
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoWCC_7H8yM
Tunaboy45 04.11.15	some people just don't have a clue I suppose
JohnnyoftheWell 04.11.15	Indeed
Wolfhorde 04.12.15	"Marx was an ethnic jew. Though yeah he did go on about "the jewish character" with regards to money." Not really of much relevance to his ideology, though. Except for maybe some implied hypocrisy but that's something humans - particularly very ideologically tuned ones - tend to be very good at. Also, what's with all these "defense leagues" ?
zakalwe 04.12.15	Defending 'traditional' values of hate, intolerance and longing for a past that never existed..... a bit like Islam in fairness.
Tunaboy45 04.12.15	"longing for a past that never existed" Defense leagues in a nutshell
MattTD 04.12.15	There was an EDL march in my town and only 40 people turned up compared to the 2000 who protested against it.
Tunaboy45 04.12.15	They think they represent the views of the entire country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtA21eiSmT8 This is an interesting watch.
Wolfhorde 04.12.15	"Defending 'traditional' values of hate, intolerance and longing for a past that never existed..... a bit like Islam in fairness." You mean a bit like any ideology that can take on radical forms.
Tunaboy45 04.12.15	According to them they want: Social Darwinism The government to hardly get involved with their lives To not have to pay tax As if these can all coexist
anarchistfish 04.12.15	that's pretty typical neoliberal doctrine tbh
Tunaboy45 04.12.15	yeah, anything involving laissez faire
ChoccyPhilly 04.15.15	The sheer amount of UKIP voters saying they "speak sense" is saddening. The fact that UKIP have voters in general is saddening!
zakalwe 04.15.15	They speak sense to the senseless which unfortunately is swathes of fuckers who are looking to point the finger
ChoccyPhilly 04.15.15	Why is the UK in so much debt? Ukipper: Breastfeeding women in public... because they're all foreign!
Tunaboy45 04.15.15	Immigrants are giving everyone HIV, get them out of here
zakalwe 04.15.15	In a crippled NHS with even more scheduled cutbacks, overworked and underpaid staff with outdated resources how much is spent on treating 'immigrants'?
ChoccyPhilly 04.15.15	Why aren't you voting, zak?
zakalwe 04.15.15	There's no alternative to a corporate, clueless vapid cabinet with people interests second place to agendas dude. It's the first time I won't vote and I never thought I'd say that. Were 'old' labour still around i.e pre Blair years they'd get me vote.
Mort. 04.15.15	I may not vote because this is all depressing and i feel like my vote doesnt matter I live in such a conservative area
zakalwe 04.15.15	Where's that Mort?
Mort. 04.15.15	Surrey A particularly nice area of surrey at that Your essex right zak?
zakalwe 04.15.15	Nice, I have been through it on occasion and you can't beat Chessington World of Adventures. Yep I'm from Basildon dude.
pissbore 04.15.15	Supreme MURDA 2016
Mort. 04.15.15	Yeah man i got chessington and thorpe park right near me Also windsor great park about a few mins away from me Area is posh as fuck but im not, moved here from a shit part of staines (basically ali g land or at least what he was satirizing)
ChoccyPhilly 04.15.15	In south Norfolk, Tories have reigned supreme for like 100+ years and that sure as hell isn't going to change. Makes my vote feel worthless
PlatonicMushroom 04.19.15	anyone else think that it would be a good idea to replace mp's with chimps? u c, when things are put to a vote, chimps know the right answer 50 percent of the time, while most humans seem to fail steadfastly even on simple matters
Tunaboy45 04.22.15	Right now the people up my area seem be going towards Labour, but you do see the odd ukip sign or billboard.
ChoccyPhilly 04.22.15	The labour, tory and lib dem representatives for my area had a debate in school today and some people asked the worst questions possible like whether or not there are enough GPs and should the entry requirements for medicine be lowered
Tunaboy45 04.22.15	Really? About 4 months ago a conservative representative came in and like a true tory he didn't answer any questions and just made stupid analogies that had nothing to do with the discussion.
ChoccyPhilly 04.22.15	Oh yeah, they did that today but the tory representative actually answered our questions the best but it was easy to see that they were all avoiding the main question
Tunaboy45 04.22.15	Yeah, there were a lot of questions about the NHS and instead of answering them he basically just said how great the it is. It was actually really frustrating.
ChoccyPhilly 04.24.15	What's this points system that ol' farage keeps banging on about?
Mort. 04.24.15	If your talking about the interview from a few days ago then its a system australia uses in regards to immigration and visas From the aussie immigration website "The points test is a transparent and objective method of selecting skilled migrants with the skills and attributes needed in Australia. The Minister for Immigration and Citizenship has the power to set the pass and pool marks for the points test"
Tunaboy45 05.04.15	At least Dave are doing an election night special, should be a laugh.
DoofusWainwright 05.04.15	Anyone but UKIP - it'd be like a second dirty industrial revolution under them, would all choke to death
JohnnyoftheWell 05.04.15	I hate politics so much at the moment. Glad to have my vote off my chest.
zaruyache 05.05.15	Hilary 2016
ChoccyPhilly 05.06.15	Big day tomorrow, lads!
Mort. 05.06.15	god kill me now i almost cant be fucked to go out and vote even though the center where i do it is like 5 mins away
ChoccyPhilly 05.06.15	I'm expecting to see old men fighting about the tories at my centre
JohnnyoftheWell 05.06.15	I'm feeling a lot of cabin fever, glad that I got a postal vote and skipped the queues.
Tunaboy45 05.06.15	had a labour bloke at the door today, he basically slagged off Cameron for 5 minutes (while occasionally bringing up the NHS)
JohnnyoftheWell 05.06.15	Shock horror surprise.
JohnnyoftheWell 05.06.15	My order of parties has changed weirdly over the course of the election. To begin with I ranked them as Tories>Labour>UKIP (for very specific reasons)>Lib Dems>Greens However, it's gone to: Tories=Lib Dems>Greens>Labour=UKIP
ChoccyPhilly 05.06.15	so... who are you voting for then?
JohnnyoftheWell 05.06.15	I voted Lib Dem, half tactically (as a vote against Labour) and half in support of their candidate, who's had a good term as MP over the last five years.
apert 05.06.15	I'm in Chelsea and Fulham so my vote doesn't really matter, Tories will win at a canter.
JohnnyoftheWell 05.06.15	Oh man, I can imagine haha
ChoccyPhilly 05.06.15	yeah, same for me. 49% tory vote here in south norfolk
Mort. 05.06.15	Surrey area, safe tory vote as far as im aware Voting greens tho.
Tunaboy45 05.06.15	It's labour for us over here
apert 05.07.15	Where are you Tunaboy
PlatonicMushroom 05.07.15	lolwtf you guys have a PM candidate who wants to outlaw 'islamophobia'? man i hope labour wins :D
MattTD 05.07.15	Vote you fucks.
Mort. 05.07.15	Im absolutely fine with people not voting.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Miliband would make an interesting PM in all honesty
CalculatingInfinity 05.07.15	@Platonic: Ha ha you saw that too, I'd be disgusted if Labour wins just because of that one statement.
zakalwe 05.07.15	Spoiled my vote. They're all a joke.
MattTD 05.07.15	Well fuck me that BBC exit poll is depressing (apart from the UKIP bit). Here's hoping that YouGov one is closer to the reality.
sonictheplumber 05.07.15	sanderz
romulanrancor 05.07.15	i hope labour wins [2]
JohnnyoftheWell 05.07.15	Holy shit, that exit poll.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	that exit poll might be off but it can't be that off. Preparing to wake up to a tory government now and not caring for the next 5 years
Archelirion 05.07.15	That exit poll. I might just move countries now. I've always fancied Finland.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	Yeah it's looking grim Fingers crossed for labour still
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	I heard Norway is nice this time of the year.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	I hear the metal is good there
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	If I go there now I'll get there in time for a brvtal winter in the forests consisting of darkthrone and hunting
Archelirion 05.07.15	I'll meet you there then?
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Count faster, you snails
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	The exit poll apparently consists of 0.04% of the voting population so maybe there's hope.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	soooo much bullshit there. That means they only asked roughly 260,000 people, which is hardly a good enough sample. Also, there are countless polls in each constituent. Not sure how they'd count them all
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	No idea, what time are they revealing the outcome? http://m.imgur.com/0psUyNz (the predicted result)
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Probably tomorrow at noon
Archelirion 05.07.15	That is a pretty crappy number, agreed. Just gives them something to talk about, it's like the filler bit between the songs and the votes on Eurovision at the moment.
Rail 05.07.15	This is like transfer deadline day for wonks i.e. bloody brilliant. Voted Sinn Fein, though they won't win in my constituency.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	@rail which constituent in NI are you at?
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Well tyneside looks promising
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	Surprise surprise, Labour are doing well in the north east
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Do Labour normally do well in Tyne and Wear?
Rail 05.07.15	I'm in East Londonderry at the moment - a DUP stronghold. My ballot was more a vote against the incumbent. Don't know how much you pay attention to the parties here, but keep your fingers crossed that the DUP don't play any part in the next government.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	They usually do choccy yeah
Archelirion 05.07.15	Like anyone else was ever gonna get in aside from Labour in Sunderland.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	Exactly, it'll be the same in Newcastle in Middlesbrough.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	@rail from what I've heard, the DUP would just want more money to go to NI if the margins are small. Why wouldn't you want them to play a role in the next govt? I've never had that big an issue with more economical focus in NI
Archelirion 05.07.15	I swear down, if my home constituencies (South Thanet was where I was born and Dover is where I grew up) vote UKIP in, I will be embarrassed as hell.
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	Farage is putting all his pennies into South Thanet, so i wouldn't be surprised
Archelirion 05.07.15	Yeah, that's what I'm worried about.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	It looks like he'll end up stepping down.as leader otherwise
ChoccyPhilly 05.07.15	i can't see UKIP going for another 5 years with only 2 seats
Rail 05.07.15	@Choccy, my problems with the DUP relate more to their positions on social issues. In terms of economics, their one concrete policy is to slash corporation tax to around 12.5%. They see it as a silver bullet that would stimulate massive private sector growth, but that one measure would take approx £300 million PA out of our budget before a single penny would be generated. Seems like a jump into the dark to me.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	Yeah it's highly unlikely, they were always just a fringe party anyway so it's not surprising.
Tunaboy45 05.07.15	I've had a long day so going to try and get some sleep, hopefully I won't wake up to a conservative victory. -Night all
Archelirion 05.07.15	Night man, let's hope for a decent outcome.
JohnnyoftheWell 05.07.15	Goodnight dude
Tunaboy45 05.08.15	Well this is turning out to be really depressing, don't be surprised if this country goes to fuck in the next 5 years. Cameron can continue selling off the NHS wholesale to all his rich friends until we inevitably lose what is arguably our country's greatest asset. To anyone who voted conservative, I hope you're happy and when things do downhill you have no right to complain.
RadicalEd 05.08.15	I hope you british folks just leave the EU already so every other country in the EU can stop worrying about your petty complaints every other week.
Judio! 05.08.15	The real question has still not been answered though... WHEN WILL THE NEW SEASON OF PEEP SHOW AIR???
Judio! 05.08.15	Super Hans for PM 2015
Tunaboy45 05.08.15	Near the end of this year, can't wait
MattTD 05.08.15	Well shit.
Archelirion 05.08.15	Gives us something to look forward to I guess.
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	Fuck this is sad. it's even worse than the exit poll suggested
JohnnyoftheWell 05.08.15	"Cameron can continue selling off the NHS wholesale to all his rich friends" I think you'll find that under 10% of the NHS is privatised, and over two thirds of that was privitised by Labour. RIP Lib Dems
MattTD 05.08.15	Bye bye Cleggy
JS19 05.08.15	Everyone my age is pissed
DoofusWainwright 05.08.15	One in eight people voted for UKIP, yikes
MattTD 05.08.15	Weird how UKIP are the main case this election to scrap FPTP.
DoofusWainwright 05.08.15	Yup, the system has not been their friend Matt
PappyMason 05.08.15	"One in eight people voted for UKIP, yikes" Yeah, that is scary.
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	I've been looking at the map and it seems to me that the cities, particularly university cities all vote labour and tory get most of their votes from the rural countryside.
JS19 05.08.15	Where the rich people are, trust me I'm from the single most tory constituency in the country
Archelirion 05.08.15	...apart from my university city. Feels like every fucker I know's voted Conservative here ;_;
JS19 05.08.15	Which one's that bro? Here in Lancaster, an old Labour stronghold then only won by 3%
PlatonicMushroom 05.08.15	"One in eight people voted for UKIP, yikes" Is debating immigration possible in polite society over there, or is it taboo and outsourced to the responsible parties? How radical is UKIP?
JS19 05.08.15	UKIP are a wall of pretense. They pretend to be about british values (codeword for xenophobia) but their MPs are constantly slipping up with what the party truly stands for by making racist, homophobic and sexist remarks which quickly get apologised for and shushed away. But it's clear what the party really stands for, they just can't say it out loud
Mort. 05.08.15	Platonic, here are ukips immigration policies, taken directly from their website Leave the EU and take back control of our borders End immigration for unskilled jobs for a five-year period to re-balance our work economy Introduce an Australian-style points-based immigration system to assess all potential migrants to Britain on a fair, ethical and equal basis Tackle the problem of sham marriages Introduce a new visa system for workers, visitors, students, families and asylum seekers End access to benefits and free NHS treatment for new immigrants until they have paid tax and NI for five years Require all visitors and new immigrants to the UK to have their own health insurance.
Mort. 05.08.15	"british values" They do pander to nationalists and patriots quite a bit. Always gets me when they talk about british values. What are these values that are so unique to us and set us apart from others? They say stuff like hard working and our moral sensibilities but these are so vague and un unique.
titanslayer 05.08.15	Unless someone announced that they are running and I missed it I hate all the republican candidates because of that letter to Iran (seriously wtf were they thinking) but I like them a bit more then Hillary so I'll probably vote for which ever one of them gets the nomination
Archelirion 05.08.15	'Which one's that bro? Here in Lancaster, an old Labour stronghold then only won by 3%' - Portsmouth South, 34.8% Tory, 22.3% Lib Dem, 19.5% Labour, 13.4% UKIP.
JS19 05.08.15	Yeah I'm a born southerner myself and you just can't escape the tory-opocalyse here, we were at 56% Tory in my home constituency
Archelirion 05.08.15	I think my home one clocked in at 45%, so really not much better. It's everywhere!
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	I think that alternative voting system should have been voted in when we had that referendum about it a few years back. I was living in London at the time and the feeling towards it was that it was pointless and a waste of money but after seeing these results, i think it would have been more fair to use it Single transferable vote, i believe?
CalculatingInfinity 05.08.15	Good job UK, our NHS is fucked now. Also lol Lib Dems got crushed.
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	The one thing i've thought of though is that it seems that the countryside don't feel the affects of austerity as much as the cities, which would explain why cities leaned labour and countryside leaned tories
Mort. 05.08.15	I thought greens were going to do better tbh
anarchistfish 05.08.15	haha we're fucked. now they can put in all the measures the lib dems were blocking "I thought greens were going to do better tbh" weren't far off winning in my constituency
titanslayer 05.08.15	Didn't read any of the other comments or description and just now realized this was for the UK, I feel smart
JWT155 05.08.15	Damn Conservatives.
titanslayer 05.08.15	ik right
Mort. 05.08.15	Haha titan i was a bit confused when i saw you posting about the republicans But yeah all my friends voted conservatives
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	I thought greens were going to do better too but the fact they got 6000 votes in south norwich is pretty decent
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	@mort We had a school mock election and every year, including sixth form voted conservatives mostly, apart from the year 10s who voted UKIP.... My common room all voted greens/labour but I guess we're the minority
JWT155 05.08.15	Whigs need to make a comeback.
apert 05.08.15	Greens is a wasted vote even in a mock election
anarchistfish 05.08.15	most young tories just vote for who their parents vote for
apert 05.08.15	probably the same with labour as well
anarchistfish 05.08.15	don't think it's as unanimous with the left
apert 05.08.15	maybe, but there are plenty of uneducated voters both young and old voting for every party
Mort. 05.08.15	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32659720 "David Cameron has promised to lead a government for "one nation" and make "Great Britain greater" as he returned to Downing Street as prime minister. Speaking outside No 10 after visiting Buckingham Palace, he said the UK was "on the brink of something special". The Conservatives have 331 seats - five more than needed for a Commons majority - their first such victory since 1992. Mr Cameron's rivals Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have all resigned after election disappointment. The Conservative leader is now beginning the process of putting together the new government. George Osborne has been reappointed as chancellor and Theresa May as home secretary."
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	Ugh, brace the cuts to healthcare and social services people
MattTD 05.08.15	Narrow Labour victory in Cambridge, gain from the Lib Dems by about 600 or so votes. Same result in Norwich South (where my future uni is), more comprehensive Labour victory though. Two flecks of red in a sea of blue. Interestingly the Lib Dem candidate for Daventry goes to my college, I know him quite well. Unsurprisingly he got absolutely battered, only got 4.4% of the vote (2000 or so votes).
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	@matt that's what I noticed too in the sea of blue. It was the same story in Exeter and Oxford
MattTD 05.08.15	High student electorate in those areas so it's hardly surprising.
PappyMason 05.08.15	Speaking outside No 10 after visiting Buckingham Palace, he said the UK was "on the brink of something special". What the hell is this bollocks?
Mort. 05.08.15	"Mr Cameron's rivals Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have all resigned after election disappointment." i genuinely did not expect this. unless im currently having a stupid moment, this means new leaders for there respective parties right?
ResidentNihilist 05.08.15	still wondering if the election was rigged in someway, just gut instinct on this one.
JWT155 05.08.15	Correct. Usually only 1 party leader resigns per election, to have 3 (2 of which from the 3 major parties) is unprecedented in British politics.
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	Miliband had to quit or his party would have forced him out. Shame, really as he genuinely seemed different to most lab/lib/tory politicians for as long as I can remember but i guess a lot of people (many friends i know) prefer someone who can spit eloquent bullshit
anarchistfish 05.08.15	"still wondering if the election was rigged in someway, just gut instinct on this one." and rigged the exit poll too? think we've just got a case of the shy tories
Mort. 05.08.15	yeah thats why i posted it here because i hadnt seen it in the thread but was pretty sure it was noteworthy the green party leader is pushing for proportional rep voting apparrentely, as they got near to a million votes but no increase in seats
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	single transferable vote pls
JWT155 05.08.15	Miliband came across as a condescending twat and that's a hard image to resonate with voters.
Mort. 05.08.15	apparentely if it was proportional greens would have 25 seats and ukip would have 82
anarchistfish 05.08.15	"Miliband came across as a condescending twat " lol? even compared to cameron?
JWT155 05.08.15	Cameron can at least muster some type of fake charm.
JohnnyoftheWell 05.08.15	Yes, actually. I think it was largely accidental on Miliband's part, but (for example) his habit of focusing on his audience's first names seemed like a gimmick, and his 'for the working people' tagline seemed prescriptive.
apert 05.08.15	There was an alternative vote referendum in 2011 and nowhere near enough people wanted it. PR voting will give labour and conservatives less seats so their supporters will never support it and as that's most of the voters it will never get passed.
Tunaboy45 05.08.15	Yeah I didn't see Miliband's resignation coming, Clegg's was inevitable.
JohnnyoftheWell 05.08.15	AV was a nice idea, but would have been so inefficient. Still, I think I'd vote for it today. I think that Miliband's resignation was pretty much a given in the event of anything other than a Labour government.
Tunaboy45 05.08.15	Yeah I suppose, it's a shame because I thought he was a great leader for Labour. Either way, the turkeys have voted for christmas.
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	I agree and he seemed genuinely different to the coldnesss of most other politicians. He would have definitely been a different kind of prime minister if he was voted in but oh well
Sanders 05.08.15	http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-02-03/david-mitchell-this-will-definitely-definitely-be-the-last-series-of-peep-show
Sanders 05.08.15	also, I work in the NHS and we're fucked
ChoccyPhilly 05.08.15	I dread to see A&E departments in the next few years
Tunaboy45 05.10.15	It's bad enough as it is, can't bear the thought of waiting more than 4 or 5 hours.
Sanders 05.10.15	This 95% seen within 4 hours target is bullshit. Trusts get bollocked if they drop below that line, even though it's almost impossible to attain
PappyMason 05.10.15	True. I hate how people have become reduced to just numbers and statistics.
Tunaboy45 05.10.15	All the conservatives see us as are walking money bags
JohnnyoftheWell 05.11.15	That's silly.
MattTD 05.11.15	Farage is back, thoughts?
PappyMason 05.11.15	lol.
Mort. 05.11.15	Farage staying leader Will probably help ukip in the long run so it was the right decision. Hes far from the worst leader they could have Not that i want ukip to succeed at all
ChoccyPhilly 05.11.15	I'd be happy if ukip cause a change with an alternative voting system, preferably single transferable vote but i doubt they'll ever be as popular as this election
PappyMason 05.11.15	In terms of leadership, he is definitely the one they need to have. That probably says it all...
Sanders 05.11.15	Hate Farage. He appeals to those lesser educated members of the public who are attracted to personality and controversial quotes. Don't understand how an ex-stockbroker who wears tweed and cords can call himself a "man of the people" though
Mort. 05.13.15	fucking hell http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-is-too-tolerant-and-should-interfere-more-in-peoples-lives-says-david-cameron-10246517.html http://i.imgur.com/G9Rn7hp.jpg
CalculatingInfinity 05.13.15	Died at that image Mort xD Also a great summary why Tory rule sucks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqnwUSevgo4
Mort. 05.13.15	ah dude id watch but i dont have the time i love the talk of "british values" in the article i posted, what a load of absolute fucking bullshit british values is such a weak term, only used to try and get people to believe in whatever shit your spewing as if somehow theyre more in touch with what our nation stands for more than other parties ask someone what british values are and theyll tell you nothing unique
PappyMason 05.13.15	"Don't understand how an ex-stockbroker who wears tweed and cords can call himself a "man of the people" though" People believe that because he has a pint glass in his hand, he's automatically 'one of us'. Urgh.
Tunaboy45 05.13.15	Sitting around in a pub with a fag in your mouth and a pint in your hand=British values
Mort. 05.13.15	thats what i was doing about 2 hours ago so i must be the most british person in here oh fuck im drinking tea at the moment aswell someone fetch me a pic of queenie
CalculatingInfinity 05.13.15	@Mort: At least watch this part then, had me in histerics: https://youtu.be/TqnwUSevgo4?t=42m37s
Mort. 05.13.15	oh yeah man ive seen that already fucking brilliant
Tunaboy45 05.13.15	I'm drinking tea too, rule britannia am I right?
PappyMason 05.13.15	God save the Queen, and all that bollocks.
Mort. 05.13.15	fucking england for the english cups of tea bulldogs the queen football casual racism crumpets cockney wayy up lads innit
Tunaboy45 05.13.15	I still say innit sometimes when I can't be arsed saying isn't it Up the boro
Mort. 05.13.15	i do genuinely say innit does annoy me when people act like their above slang. Im 19, just let me refer to my friends as lads and say innit and i wont get in anyones way
Tunaboy45 05.13.15	Agreed, I can't imagine myself not referring to my mates as lads. I don't care whether you were raised in Guildford or in a wheelie bin in Billingham, no one is above slang.
PappyMason 05.13.15	Aye.
ChoccyPhilly 05.15.15	Fuck me. Abolishing the human rights act and now they want to implement anti strike laws? It's all quite depressing
PappyMason 05.15.15	Mate, everyday a hear about a new bullshit law the Conservatives want to enact. What is wrong with them.
zakalwe 05.15.15	Yep their rubbish but the other alternatives are even worse and the fact is nothing changes. Labour with their hand out policy crippled the country and turned the bottom rung citizens into even more destitute sacks of shit who had more demands as a result of their 'needs.' Education turned into a joke. NHS cutbacks Pensions remolded into plans that do nothing but take the piss. Immigration system which benefits nobody and burdens everybody. Balance of power lying with the banks as they hold dominant control. Criminal justice system being a web of unfairness. Agriculture abandoned Housing fucked Taxes increased It's all the same dudes, no matter whose in charge the system is a wheel that turns and fucks over the working people who keep their heads down and try their hardest to do whats right.
ChoccyPhilly 05.15.15	@zak I doubt that Ed Miliband's labour would have done that though
PappyMason 05.15.15	@ChoccyPhilly, the race for the new Labour leader is a right shambles isn't it? Honestly, the majority of them don't even have a coherent strategy. They sound like incompetent fools. I guess nothing really does change...
ChoccyPhilly 05.15.15	@pappy it's a shame because I read on the independent that half of the candidates wanted to bring labour right and want to appeal to "the people who shop in john lewis" I really liked ed towards the end of the campaign and was a bit sad to see him resign. but in the meantime, it's going to be 5 long years whenever I think of anything government related
Mort. 05.15.15	Just choked on my tea, england is killing me have to leave
zakalwe 05.15.15	PG, Yorkshire or King Tetley?
Mort. 05.15.15	PG As i dont buy the tea in our house i cant say im that knowleadgble on what tea is best. When i move out i will diversify and try new teas im sure
Tunaboy45 05.15.15	Yorkshire is our brew of choice
Tunaboy45 05.15.15	25,000 signed a petition for northern England to become part of Scotland.
zakalwe 05.15.15	Cast free the subservient shackles of familial life, step forth onto the road of experience on which to ponder and stick the kettle on.
Sanders 05.17.15	PG Tips is top Although I'm swinging towards Earl Grey now
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	25,000 out out like 10 million but if this actually does happen, I may end up living in scottish yorkshire
Mort. 05.17.15	Theres is fuck all chance of it happening
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	yeah it would be mad if scotland get another referendum anyway
zakalwe 05.17.15	I'd like to move up North. The scenery, small towns and people are the real deal.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	I'll be living in Scotland if that happens, and it'd be great
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	The scenery can be nice, if a bit industrial where I am The small towns are nice The people are generally good but you do get some scumbags.
Mort. 05.17.15	Tbh im gonna have to move, houses are too expensive where i am (surrey and quite near to london). Still dont have to worry about all that for a few years. Not til im done with uni anyway
zakalwe 05.17.15	Boro although I haven't been looks like a larger version of a town that's a few miles from me (tilbury) which is in all honesty one of the worst shit holes I've ever been to and I've been to Soweto.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	I think it'd be a bit unfair to call all of boro a shithole. I live just outside it near the more country areas near roseberry topping and it's nice.
zakalwe 05.17.15	Roseberry Topping. What a delightful name to disguise the murky reality of ramblers out dogging
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	roseberry topping is the perfect name for a dogging site
zakalwe 05.17.15	Crime wise ever been burgled? How many times have you had a car nicked?
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	when I was younger (13) I got my bike nicked, three 19 year olds gathered round me, started threatening me and eventually they threw me off onto the pavement and got away.
zakalwe 05.17.15	Fuckers. Took three 'men' to push a boy off his bike. Absolute wankers.
Mort. 05.17.15	That happens everywhere Stay away from staines on gypsy sundays
zakalwe 05.17.15	I've had me bike nicked twice as a lad. Once from the garage, once from outside the sweet shop. I've been robbed at knife point, bottled, put through a table and had me sat nav nicked but I've never had three fuckers rob me bike. Wankers.
Mort. 05.17.15	Fucking hell zak. Worse i ever get is being started on by gypsies, none of them ever do shit because theyre usually about 15 and just cocky little shits They go around nicking kids bikes at a park near me tho. Happened to a lot of my mates.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Yeah it's ridiculous, if they were my age I could've fought them off but when they're literally grown men I didn't stand a chance. I thought they were taking the piss at first, started saying it was their bike and I'd stolen it from them. When I refused to "give it back", that's when the threats started.
zakalwe 05.17.15	We wouldn't put up with shite around here. Vigilante mob would be baying for blood.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Some cars were beeping their horns but that was about it. I was with my mate at the time and he almost ended up like me, just managed to get away. We were only a block or two away from his house so he went to get help. They were gone by the time he came back.
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	I was using a replacement phone and I walked through a quiet part on edgware road and this guy grabbed me a forced me to go into a tunnel that went under marly road. It was pretty clear what was gonna happen as he had mates on the other side if i made a dash. i said i didn't have a phone when he asked for it but then i remember i did so I was like "Do you REALLY want it?" His eyes opened up and was like "YEAAAHHH!!!!" So I took out my ancient nokia without anything and he just laughed saying "nah nah bruv" and ran off to see his other mates. Wasn't so lucky other times
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	reminds me of a scene from peep show, only it was a blackberry and Mark actually had it nicked. We've all had bad experiences then. "it's a bittersweet symphony this life"
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	Believe it or not, I only had that replacement phone because I was mugged for my other one. My friend was making a joke saying that any muggers would look at my replacement one, laugh and give me money to buy a new one as it was that bad. I'm sure everyone will experience it at some point if you live in a city
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Funnily enough, I've never had a phone nicked. I've been to concerts in Manchester and Newcastle where there were tonnes of muggings but I suppose I got lucky. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/thieves-steal-30-phones-metro-8480809 Like this one
thumbcrusher 05.17.15	I just don't understand how people could steal a 13 year old's bike, mug people or whatever. What goes through their minds when they're doing it or afterwards when they're going to sleep or taking a dump? Do they just have no sense of empathy or what?
Mort. 05.17.15	Wow im lucky i live in such a nice area
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	There are some shitty people in this world bro
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	@mort norwich is sweet too. I feel so much safer there compared to london so you won't have anything to worry about
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	@thumbcrusher I wonder exactly the same thing, I guess they just lack any empathy
zakalwe 05.17.15	it doesn't mean anything to them. Nicking someone's phone is ultimately a step up from the old school yard bully who we've all encountered and know doesn't give the first fuck. stabbing somebody means fuck all if it garners 'respect' from your gang who is the only attachment to a reciprocal 'love' that you dont get from anywhere else. Reinforce it with being a selfish moron from a shit family with no future to start with and are constantly given handouts so you don't obtain the satisfaction of work related achievement and there you have the product of 'Blairs Britain'
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Always funny when the police say they can deal with the problem by giving out ASBOs, when those twats they see them as trophies and use them to gain status and respect within their little gangs.
zakalwe 05.17.15	To be fair I've only seen what you could call 'gangs' in London. Wearing colours, shooting people and what have you but their fucking idiot kids. Stick em in the favelas of Brazil or the rough parts of the U.S and they'd brick it within seconds.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Yeah I always think that. The 'gangs' round here usually walk around wearing carbrini trackies and sporting the fucking hilariously bad shaven on the side, long on the top haircut. They think they're threatening but yeah 97% of them are just stupid kids from rough families.
zakalwe 05.17.15	Yep it trickles downhill. Relatively stick them idiots in certain areas like Newham or Lambeth and they'd brick it in seconds. I'm with Bill Cosby on the idea that rap culture justifies, glorifies and celebrates all that bullshit.
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	@tuna lol takes me back to the days when being late and getting detention made you a hard motherfucker
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	rap culture hasn't done anyone any favours, especially the image pretty boy goons like 50 cent go for. Now you have white people from middle class backgrounds wearing their levi jeans down to their ankles and it's just ridiculous.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	@choccy if you got excluded you were the hardest motherfucker in the game haha
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	Only bettered if you were walking around with Head of Year reports bulging out of your blazer pocket
zakalwe 05.17.15	That white middle class assimilation of black hip hop culture has been around for years dude. In my day Ice T and N.W.A were reason to act like a complete dickhead.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	@choccy the more beat up your report was, the more badass you were. especially if you got into fights (ie, slapping someone once before getting carried away by a teacher)
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	fair enough, still hilarious though
Mort. 05.17.15	Lol we had a kid at our school who used to rap in the toilets reading bars off his nokia phone. Thought he was the toughest shit going. Deals weed now, what a badman. Grime for the most part is pretty awful in the sort of culture attached to it
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	yeah I can't stand that london council flat culture that gets glorified. people in that situation struggle on a daily basis and twats like dizzee rascal just make it worse.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	we had someone that came in stoned and kept telling everyone because he thought he was hard as shit, until a teacher found out
zakalwe 05.17.15	The divs who 'rapped' at my school were fucking lol. "My name is rob yeah want a few bob yeah so I'm gonna go out on the rob yeah, watch out yeah"
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	"smoke some week, dab of speed, council house minority fuckin the authority" anyone who wants to be part of my new grime project, please let me know
Mort. 05.17.15	"my bars are as hard as diamonds" was a fav of the guy from my school He was a shit rapper who sounded half asleep as he rapped and had the charisma of rag on a stick
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	ugh yeah I used to hate the type who would play grime at the back of the bus on the way home but to be fair, rap duels were pretty funny in my school
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	"my bars are as hard as diamonds" haha I'll have to write that one down
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	@choccy we never got any rap duels, there was always that prick who blasted some shitty grime or whatever in the dinner hall though
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	haha yeah, I know the type. Nah some of ours were genuinely quite interesting and better than just 1on1 cussing
zakalwe 05.17.15	Yeah it waaasssss thhhhheeeeeee spppeeeeeeeed in which it came out. You could hear the cogs ticking as they strung more than one scentence together.
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	any more than three syllables and they keeled over I'd imagine
zakalwe 05.17.15	That was just the teachers at my school
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	our teachers were always great, especially the english department. wouldn't mind watching them rap battle haha
Mort. 05.17.15	No jennifer ill pass thanks
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	"And i get surly a chek" Jennifer were you a grime kid?
Mort. 05.17.15	My english teacher took the piss out of the rapper by telling him he would never achieve his dream because good rappers have an actual grasp on the english language and a decent vocabulary Gettin parred by a 50 yr old woman oooooh boys
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	she has a point though, even the worst rappers have to have some sort of understanding of words n that
Mort. 05.17.15	Yeah like if you were gonna make a bot to post this shit surely youd make it spell properly? Or maybe they think it looks realistic if it makes mistakes.
ChoccyPhilly 05.17.15	Yeah, I get quite impressed by some of the complex vocab they spit out at times. I have an old classmate who used to be a good friend who's currently trying his luck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDblmbf7WPY To be fair, it could be worse.
zakalwe 05.17.15	Bless him. After that dressing down he probably went home and set fire to the cat. This talk has brought up a distinct memory of that 'rappers' mum passing me a rock, pointing to an injured bird and saying "you're going to have to stove its head in love, put it out of its misery" Fucking madness!
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	Well at least he's trying, it's not awful
Mort. 05.17.15	yeah its far from awful tbh
Tunaboy45 05.17.15	nice little video too
CalculatingInfinity 05.17.15	"My english teacher took the piss out of the rapper by telling him he would never achieve his dream because good rappers have an actual grasp on the english language and a decent vocabulary Gettin parred by a 50 yr old woman oooooh boys " Made me spat my drink out laughing xD. Oddly enough I met one of these 'tough boys' who got excluded outside of school smoking. Me and my friends sat around and talked to him, Went far better then I expected, we even got on well. I do not miss high school.