Album Rating: 4.0

Started watching Jacob Collier interview on YouTube and his fanbase are full of theory geeks that transcribe his spoken voice. Feels like I've fallen down a rabbit hole of confusion.



Hopefully Grizzly Bear still continue but yeah... a record released under Rossen's name containing half of the GB lineup is certainly something. Although, perhaps it might mean Chris Taylor's production being even more eccentric in possible future GB records?

Album Rating: 4.0

That’s fair someone, though I have to imagine the split in Grizzly Bear at least somewhat influenced or caused him to write this album. Maybe it was already in the works before 2020 though, idk.

Album Rating: 4.0

https://youtu.be/DnBr070vcNE



Dude is so fun to listen to even if the theory terminology can be difficult to grasp for a layman.

Album Rating: 4.5 | Sound Off

personally, Adam Neely is my go-to theory-for-the-laymen youtuber



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUHEPmg0sPo

Album Rating: 4.0

There's loads of great knowledge on YouTube. I also like David Bennett.



https://youtu.be/7Mgsn4p31kA



I feel lucky that there are resources out there and folks are just willing to share and teach like this.

Album Rating: 4.5 | Sound Off

that's one of the things i tried - quite crudely - tackle in my review. are the similarities between DoE, GB, and Rossen's work rooted in his unique approach to song-writing and we are now seeing him expand upon them to the max? or are the aspects that made DoE and GB what eventually ended up shaping Rossen himself?

Album Rating: 4.0

I find that even the sound, the mix and engineering on this record are very similar to Grizzly Bear's work. There's a lot of GB's identity in Rossen's solo work.

Album Rating: 4.5

Cannot stop listening to Unpeopled Space

havent like anything grizzly bear since veckatimest, is this better?

Album Rating: 5.0

I think it's great which should tell you all you need to know. ;-)

Album Rating: 4.5

This is a lot more interesting than Grizzly Bear imo



Edit: But I do also love Shields and you dislike my taste so

Ur both perfect just the way you are





Fwiw I think it was the first Rosen ep I found very interesting

"Started watching Jacob Collier"

big mistake

Album Rating: 4.0

I'm already a fan of his music. I think he's brilliant. I fell down a rabbit hole of microtonality and negative harmony.

to each their own but I think his songwriting absolutely sucks, he focuses way too much and doing stupid theoretical tricks and nothing on creating actual digestible hooks or musical storytelling

its telling the one good thing he's ever worked on is that sza song and it's by far the most conventional thing i've ever heard from him

holy shit his voice is terrible too urgh

Album Rating: 4.0

Yeah, I'm not really interested in Jacob being conventional. He approaches pop music as though it were jazz, and that's what I like about his work. It's very explorative and stacked with nuances that keep his works fresh every time I come back to them. Djesse Vol. 1 is my favourite of his releases so far. It's this maze of orchestral jazz fusion, funk, Gnawa, and balladry. Such a sprawling beast of an album, and it sounds great too.



His voice can be a little dry, particularly in his earlier records but it's a barrier I can get by because of how tasty his chord progressions and rhythms are. His lyrics can be a toss-up. The playful songs are serviceable while cuts like 'Ocean Wide, Canyon Deep' have this otherworldly imagery that is really potent.



Djesse Vol. 3 is probably the closet his work has been to conventional pop. It's a great album with decent hooks (All I need, Sleeping on My Dreams). My favourite of his works come from songs like 'Once You' and 'Hajanga'.



It's also not telling that the "One good thing he's ever worked" on is the SZA song. That only tells me you only accept him in terms of conventionality. Which, if that's what you expect from a jazz musician, you're looking in the wrong places.

it's not so much about being conventional as it is about being, for lack of a better term, wanky - its like the pop version of yngwie malmsteen without the personality to (just about) carry it. there are plenty of artists who approach pop from jazz and experimental perspectives who also realise that for music to work as pop music there are often some necessary adaptations to aid translation of ideas. i'm not gonna deny that he's a genuinely talented dude who has some interesting perspectives but he really fails to have any kind of engaging consistency or clear vision beyond trying to do as much stuff as possible in each song, which just doesn't work.

i end up having the same experience every time i hear any of his work. i'll listen to it once, think 'huh thats a cool trick' and then never go back to it again, there's no staying power, it's flashes of eccentricity that are never developed into anything memorable. the problem with trying to make pop music from an unadapted jazz perspective is that they are very different functionally and what you might get away with easily in a 20-minute free jazz piece can not be distilled effectively into a 4-minute pop song. it's like what an andre rieu concert is to classical music, sure he plays the cool bits and the ear candy, but there's no context created to allow it to be effective, and so it just feels like jacob's mega jazzy minimix. i think if he took more inspiration from the works of nu jazz musicians and those who incorporate jazz into electronic music it would maybe show him how to streamline his ideas a bit into something cohesive, but as i said i do actually really like the sza track he worked on and if he does more stuff like that i'm here for it.

i don't 'only accept him in terms of conventionality' either, it's merely the case that in that instance he actually builds a song first and then adds in the cool stuff, rather than haphazardly trying to create context for a couple of interesting ideas.

Album Rating: 4.0

Fundamentally, though, his music isn't really pop. It's barely suitably any one genre at any one time. So his approach to any song-writing process is as a musician, much like a jazz musician would approach melody. Beyond his deliberately pop works, you're going to get less hooks, standard chord-progressions, and conventional time signatures in his music because that's not the point of the art.



And as much as I love the London jazz movement, it's not the place I can see Jacob going, likely because his influences thus far haven't really come from those spaces. Although, I find his music perfectly cohesive. It's a different sound to the likes of Sons of Kemet or Moses Boyd.



Still, it sounds to me like you're asking him to build a song of hooks and memorable melodies as though that were ever part of the mission statement of this jazz musician. His melodies are explorative and for those interested, there's a lot of emotion. There's feeling in his rhythms and his compositions. It's startling how people critiquing technical musicians like Jacob or even perception of genres like classical seem to forget that emotional responses to music are subjective and they're not always found in the same places.



As Chris Thile put it "As far as performance demeanour, I don't feel like classical musicians are any more reserved than non-Classical musicians but it's actually the audience that are far more reserved." (Ref: https://youtu.be/cXDL6_3gFu0)



Also, I don't think pop and jazz function entirely that differently and there are a plethora of musicians and songs that prove otherwise. Quincy Jones built a legacy on finding the line between pop and jazz, with more an emphasis on pop than the jazz lines Jacob strives for. Different means to a different end.



Edit: Rather than try to explain why people find Jacob's music more than wankery and theory for the sake of it, and instead just the same emotional provocations as with any other jazz musician, I think this short clip kind of demonstrates what it feels like for people who get it: https://youtu.be/z5mxfYuIwfs (See violinist's reaction)

Who

Album Rating: 4.0

The very same. Daltrey, Townshend et al. :-)



No, we were discussing Jacob Collier because I brought up that I liked hearing him talk about music theory.