Album Rating: 1.0

Were just spinning our wheels here.



DEG did not populrize vk, vk was already popularized by X japan who are technically kings of vk for the amount of popularity they achieved as vk artists and the fact that they were the first VK act to gain mainstream success and stardom, then after that Luna Sea who were gods in the 90's and on top of the Jrock scene and VK scene when DEG was just forming.



DEG started in '97 and it really wasn't the mid early 2000's that they started to really take off. Gazette started in 2002 and weren't really doing well till madara was released in 2004, same time as vulgur, followed by GAMA LP, Reila, etc. Completely different sound from both bands.



In 2005 you had withering to Death and shortly after in 2006 you have NIL. 2 completely different albums with their unique sounds.



The music they both produce today is western based rock, which like I said has been done by a million bands before them in all the different metal scenes around the world and its boring.



So you're contention should really be, man this gazette album sucks because it sounds like all the shitty metal that has been done before and more originally by other bands a long time ago. The same can be said about DEG.



That pretty much wraps it up, I know all of you kiddies love your DEG, but lets not create alternative facts because it makes you feel good.

Album Rating: 2.0

"DEG did not populrize vk"



that's not what I said



"DEG started in '97 and it really wasn't the mid early 2000's that they started to really take off."



pretty sure either Gauze or Kisou is their best seller so... :/



"In 2005 you had withering to Death and shortly after in 2006 you have NIL. 2 completely different albums with their unique sounds."



and before WTD you had Vulgar/Six Ugly, which is what NIL is more similar too



"The music they both produce today is western based rock, which like I said has been done by a million bands before them in all the different metal scenes around the world and its boring."



Dir En Grey are very celebrated as doing this style justice, especially outside Japan, funnily enough



"So you're contention should really be, man this gazette album sucks because it sounds like all the shitty metal that has been done before and more originally by other bands a long time ago. "



yeah it sure is, Dir En Grey was just an immediate example I had on me at the time



"The same can be said about DEG."



the same can be argued about DeG, but as a lot of people will tell you, they're a far more competent band



"That pretty much wraps it up, I know all of you kiddies love your DEG, but lets not create alternative facts because it makes you feel good. "



don't you fucking condescend to me, boy. and nice buzzwords, "alternative facts" jfc

Album Rating: 2.5

As per usual, someone Japanese music or VK fan spouting ignorant bullshit about Metal when they know barely a lick about it. We've listened to different types of Metal to Death, Black, Doom, Thrash to Power Metal and their subcategories for years and I really doubt you have if you spout an ignorant statement such as "Take your head out of the sand and you'd notice that both DEG and Gazette's recent releases are all similar to the trash metal scene that you and the plebs here are fans of.". Also, stop moving the goal posts whenever you see fit because you are not here for an actual conversation, you're just here to spout shit thinking "lol I'm right" on every post.

damn the new kid is pretty mad

Album Rating: 3.5

"DEG started in '97 and it really wasn't the mid early 2000's that they started to really take off."

Gauze is their best selling album. Source: http://www.oricon.co.jp/prof/6902/rank/album/



Regarding NIL and its 'unique' sound, let me name two examples:

- the riffing style and guitar tone from "Discharge" sound a whole lot like the first two Slipknot albums; in other words they've started aping this western sound you're despising some time ago already...

- the flang-y guitar line that you can hear in the background around the 1:50-2:20 and 4:35-5:40 mark in "Nausea & Shudder" recalls the melody from Luna Sea's song "Lastly" at the 4:35 mark (curious timestamp, huh) and to a lesser extent the mid section of the track "GARDEN" from Missa, which, in turn, is already reminiscent of Luna Sea's "Moon".



Cheers to "alternate facts"!

Album Rating: 2.5

Also including Ogre on DIM, which is just a Slipknot song from the Iowa era.

Album Rating: 2.5

"Other than Lucy and Grudge (deracine has some nice riffs) this album is absolute garbage and a complete testament to what happens when you leave your sound. "

A 3.5 is too high of a score of an album you otherwise trashed sans 2 (maybe even 3) songs. For that alone, I bumped this down to a 2 out of spite.



"The music they both produce today is western based rock, which like I said has been done by a million bands before them in all the different metal scenes around the world and its boring."

Dear lord...you're using THAT argument?

Sure. Fine, I'm one of the people here that likes DEG more than Jas does. But DEG's not even my favorite band (metal or otherwise) either.

@Calc oh no. Some of the riffs on this album slap hard. I'm probably really into "generic" metal in comparison to the rest of y'all but a lot of this album is very decent. It's also the first album I've heard by them, the first visual kei album I've heard from a band that isn't Diru, and I never really got into Nu Metal, at all. So comparing this to the Nu Metal bands I know (old Linkin Park, Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed (?), some Diru, and the nu wave of Nu that's popping up in metalcore) this is pretty decent. Easily a 3 imo.

Definitely not as interesting as Diru's later works though (or anything by them at all tbh). Definitely copying that older Diru / Slipknot style riffing in some parts. Very generic but also mildly enjoyable haha. Vocalist is sweet too.

Album Rating: 2.5

I'm not calling this album awful, just average with a few good songs. Even if it isn't stuff I've heard before the production kinda suck the life out of this as well.



If you liked this, check DIM since it's easily their most well regarded. As for other VK bands you got plenty to love: X Japan, Luna Sea, Malice Mizer, Nightmare, Kuroyume (which you should check Mayoeru Yuritachi ~Romance of Scarlet~ since without these there would be no Dir en Grey), Versailles/Kamijo, Guniw Tools, The Piass, Plastic Tree, Merry...plenty to love.

Ah my last post must not have gone through, thanks for the reccs! I personally don't even mind the production. Sounds fairly big to me ~ way better than Deftones' latest album and I was able to see past the production flaws haha.

Album Rating: 2.5

Yeah...a giant structure made out of paper. Sounds so flat.

I can't even argue because it's very clear that I'm in the minority here haha. When I first heard dogma (the song) I was pretty happy with it. It could definitely be better but I don't think it's trash haha.

Album Rating: 2.5

I was happy with Ominous, because that song rules.

Album Rating: 3.5

I don't really have gripes with the production either. Sure, pretty standard, but does the job.

Glad to hear I'm not alone Evo ~

Ominous is a dope track as well Calc. Love the drum groove in the beginning and the chord progression ~ if my memory serves me right it's a similar chord progression to Digital Bath (Deftones) which I also loved. The build up for this track is phenomenal and their singer (I think his name is Ruki?) sounds soooo good.

Album Rating: 3.5

Title track and closer are definitely the best. Ruki's performance is one of the highlights. What made the album a bit worse in retrospect for me were the post-Dogma singles which are better than most material here and could've replaced some tracks perfectly.

Album Rating: 2.5

Yeah Ruki is a really good singer, quite a husky voice.

I feel you on that for sure Evo. I don't really know how to rate this album because while I do like it, I don't see myself playing more than 2-3 of these tracks even somewhat regularly. Probably sitting at a 3-3.5 though.

He really is ~ Japanese mans with the best voices these days.

Album Rating: 2.5

Ruki's a good singer, yes. Quite a decent growler too albeit a one trick pony type of growler.



xiLeadFeather, I'm kind of in your boat also. There's 2-3 songs I think are great, but the rest I find to be so average, it's almost unmemorable hence why I've currently have Dogma at a 2.5. I do think it's slightly better than the album before it (to be precise, I think that album was so terrible it's their worst album ever IMO).

Album Rating: 1.0

"Regarding NIL and its 'unique' sound, let me name two examples:



- the riffing style and guitar tone from "Discharge" sound a whole lot like the first two Slipknot albums; in other words they've started aping this western sound you're despising some time ago already..."



congrats on picking the shittiest song on the album, also you cant say it sounds like slipknot just because its the same genre. what a troll, you can say that about any heavy song. You completely avoided the entire argument about the album. NIL is the greatest modern album to come out of jrock, nothign dir en grey has ever produced can come close to it or any other modern visual kei band.



"- the flang-y guitar line that you can hear in the background around the 1:50-2:20 and 4:35-5:40 mark in "Nausea & Shudder" recalls the melody from Luna Sea's song "Lastly" at the 4:35 mark (curious timestamp, huh) and to a lesser extent the mid section of the track "GARDEN" from Missa, which, in turn, is already reminiscent of Luna Sea's "Moon"."



Just stop embarrassing yourself, thats not flangy, thats called delay. Second, luna sea invented delay? Lmfao this has to be the worst argument used in history, claiming bands that use common guitar effects are somehow copying LOL. its not even close to being similar, sugizo is using a stereo delay with a different timing and they sound nothing alike. You're just grasping at straws here kid and youre arguments are as stupid as your opinions they attempted to support.