"I enjoy the result, not the process"

right, but you undergo the process for the resulting enjoyment of perceived improvement / change

""can you really call it bad still?"

I know what you're saying, but yes, I still can and I do."

I don't understand this logic. your qualitative barometer must be derived from a contrived perception of what 'objective' good/bad qualities in music look like, otherwise you would just use positive verbiage for works that you enjoyed. like i enjoy some music that i know is embarrassing and gimmicky but i don't call it bad because i enjoy it.

i suppose this just comes down to disparities in rating criteria. i rate based on enjoyment so your system seems odd to me

"right, but you undergo the process for the resulting enjoyment of perceived improvement / change"
Yes.

"I don't understand this logic. your qualitative barometer must be derived from a contrived perception of what 'objective' good/bad qualities in music look like, otherwise you would just use positive verbiage for works that you enjoyed. like i enjoy some music that i know is embarrassing and gimmicky but i don't call it bad because i enjoy it."
The thing is, I don't find satisfaction in the music I consider bad because I enjoy it, I find satisfaction in it because everytime I listen to something new, good or bad, I feel that I'm getting closer to having an objective (well, for the most part) "qualitative barometer"; I don't have one yet, that's why I listen to everything, if I don't like it, I try to understand why I don't like it, if I do, why I like it. I don't have a "contrived perception of what 'objective' good/bad qualities in music look like", I'm trying to create one, but I'm still very ignorant.

Hmm. So I feel like you can develop a more informed and eclectic and mature opinion but striving to be more ‘objective’ is super strange to me. Like you can’t ever separate yourself from your subjectivity ... even the way you consume objective information is anchored to subjectivity. Even how you define objective good/bad is subjective ... it’s all just a personalized tangle no matter what you do. I guess it’s possible you are defining objectivity differently than me? Lol

I'm aware that I will never be able to completely separate myself from my subjectivity, I'm just a human, not a god or a machine; but I'm trying to be as less subjective as possible, I want to reach a point where I can say that a piece of music is bad or good and be as sure about my judgement as I am sure that 2+2=4. Maybe I will never be able to do so, but I can try.

Album Rating: 4.0

Lol why would anyone want or care about achieving that.

Why would you ever delve into an entertainment medium and try to take all personal feeling/opinion/whatever out of it???? What's the point??????

I don't think about music as entertainment, I think about it as art, and art doesn't have to be entertaining.

"I want to reach a point where I can say that a piece of music is bad or good and be as sure about my judgement as I am sure that 2+2=4"

I don't understand this. First of all, all music is subjective and there is no objectiveness you can get out of it. Also, why can't you do this subjectively? I think, despite what a lot of people say about it, that Eminem's Encore is a 5 just as much as I believe 2 + 2 = 4. What do you mean "sure about your judgment?" It's just how you feel about something, it's not that complicated like wat

Music is both a form of entertainment and art

"Music is both a form of entertainment and art"
I make a distinction between music that is just entertainment and music that is art.
"I think, despite what a lot of people say about it, that Eminem's Encore is a 5 just as much as I believe 2 + 2 = 4."
Tell me why.

Album Rating: 4.0

"Tell me why."



Ahh, i think i get it. the whole point of achieving that that is to be able to back up your opinions to total strangers on the internet, yeah?

Look, let's just cut all the bullshit.

What do you think of Avril?

Album Rating: 4.0

Give me a detailed essay on exactly WHY this is a 2. I want it on my desk by the morning.

i'm also curious as to why striving toward a more 'objectivized' opinion is important to you?
we have established that the criteria by which we define objectivity is, in itself, subjective. so how then is this concept of objectivity in music not meaningless? this almost feels dissociative

"Tell me why."

I believe it is a 5 because I believe there's a good mix of emotion, seriousness, and comedy within the 90 or so minutes of the album. I love Eminem's singing and I think it was best at the time of recording this album. I love the beats for the most part because they, along with his voice create a rainy/moody atmosphere (see: Rain Man, Spend Some Time, Love You More) I love how he started using piano in some of the beats (Mockingbird, Spend Some Time, Love You More). I don't think Ass Like That is legitimately hilarious but I think it's funny ironically, same with Big Weenie. I think Just Lose It is genuinely hilarious because of how fucking random the whole thing is and out of nowhere he just starts doing Lose Yourself and how he literally has a part in it where he goes "chubachubachubachuba I dont have any lines so just chuba" or whatever it is and I think it's funny. I love the swagger of Never Enough, the story of Yellow Brick Road and Toy Soldiers. I just love everything about the whole album and I believe it is a 5 like I believe 2+2=4.

@hal1ax
Well, simple, because it's better. Gods and machines are above humans, the closer a human is to them, the better.

@Drifter
Thanks for your answer.

Nah I gotta side with my own race rn humans are pretty cool

Yw bud