"One of the main people who investigated him to get all the charges called Watkins "the most dangerous sex offender he had ever seen"."

yeah, which makes it even worse that they took so long to take the accusations seriously, even when his (now-)ex confronted them with... explicit evidence

The women he did that shit with are just as bad as him. Truly disgusting stuff

Telling me I don't care about nuance when you literally just regurgitated the most basic bitch opinion about the relationship between art and artist

And I personally don't care whether you listen to this or not caliggy I just like taking the piss out of you cos you say brain-dead shit all the time

Musical euivalent of saying "communism works well in theory but not in practice" literally just shit morons who can't think parrot

happy 19587 comments

"communism works well in theory but not in practice"
And yet Communism is working very well, China are the country that has America shook to its core (America that is the only country to push its views onto everyone in the world btw)

Album Rating: 4.0

I can mostly get over the "separate art from the artist" thing. A lot of people in the industry are absolute dicks and wanting to listen to artists you deem "nice people" and do thorough research on everyone will be a super tedious process. Of course I tend to support artists I think are good people more than people I know are assholes, but even then the music comes first for me.



However, in cases like Watkins or Lambesis, I felt some sort of betrayal it was so weird. Lostprophets and As I Lay Dying are two bands that have been a huge part of my musical journey, and now if I think about that context when I listen to these bands (almost never in Lostprophets' case), it feels gross. Doesn't change the fact that this album is iconic and it slaps so very hard, and I feel for the rest of the band, who are most likely just good enough dudes who have had their career ruined by association. It's been many years and I still can't believe how Watkins ended up being this monster.

in fairness to caliggy my problem wasnt really with the idea of not judging people for separating the art and artist but this unexaminded notion of separation that people always talk about without even clarifying what they really mean. hence why i was calling it a basic bitch opinion. it doesnt mean anything til you explain any of your reason. just coming into a thread and going ' dont judge people for etc' seems pointless and arrogant to me

but im also the guy getting too worked up on sput over nothing like i have done for the last year or so apologies calliggy i deffo overreacted

I've always felt relieved, for my own sake personally, that I always thought this band were shit. Not being a prior fan is definitely an easier position to be in when attempting to separate art from scumfuck.

I do feel somewhat sorry for the rest of the band members... it's hard to escape the taint of the creature that fronted them.

I imagine if I were a fan, I do however think that this would be a step too far... his presence is a main musical focal point and it'd be too tied to the ridiculous extremes of his monstrous RL persona. Art vs. Artist has to have an endpoint... reckon this'd be way over the line, and probably wouldn't be able to play it again.

Album Rating: 4.0

I understand your point Mort. though. It was definitely unnecessarily rude but I'm so used to it on Sputnik I didn't think much of it haha. But I am also tired of the basic "don't judge" sentiment and the comparison you made with how most people talk about communism was pretty bullseye. I don't feel it brings much to the conversation.



IsisScript80 yeah I'd much rather think this album was garbage, would make things much easier for sure.

^ I get how you'd feel a sense of betrayal, peartnoy... the closest I've got in regards to acts I dig are the allegations that were made against Michael Gira of Swans and Jon Parkin of Gaza... it's conflicting to say the least, and on those cases, the unsubstantiated element allows me at least, to navigate the mental gymnastics just enough to still enjoy the music.

Watkins in significantly next level... all I could suggest if it is (understandably) too much to ever play or enjoy their output again, is to maybe compartmentalise as something like: "Okay, it helped me get into music/good for the time, but that was then and there's a lot of decent acts out there that can be enjoyed without this baggage". Possibly.

Album Rating: 4.0

Did a more accurate review now you’re welcome y’all

what i don't get is people pretending the other band members weren't aware that he was grooming underage girls while touring tbh smh

^ So, your suggestion is that anyone in his vague vicinity is entirely guilty of not just knowing about it, but deliberately withholding information? Fucking big accusation.

Could it be, that some people are able to keep darker aspects of themselves private, and that not every fucked-up thought is shared amongst work colleagues (yes, even on tour), for fear of reprisal? That's why these fucks form "rings", because they correspond and act out with SPECIFICALLY like-minded individuals, whilst conducting themselves normally (often for years/decades) to the public at large.

Most people aren't mind-readers, nor are they in each other's company 24/7. It's kind of shit to just outright assume that the rest of them were in on it by default, without a scrap of evidence.

"in his vague vicinity"

disingenuous

"Fucking big accusation"

big crimes as well

"and that not every fucked-up thought is shared amongst work colleagues (yes, even on tour)"

'having a thought' and... 'inviting' underage fans ~backstage~ while his bandmates watch him groom are two very different things

"Most people aren't mind-readers"

sure, but i think you might be a bit confused as to what he's been proven guilty of. this ain't just ~thought crimes~

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/ian-watkins-former-lostprophets-bandmates-7527893

From the article:

'Responding to questions about whether Lostprophets knew about Watkins’ sex abuse, he added: “How could you know?

“Who would disclose such a thing to five people, who between them have eight children? You just wouldn’t because they would be killed on the spot.”'

If you want to believe Lostprophets were a pedophile ring or just some kind of enablers, completely unsubstantiated, just because "Oh, how could they not be?!", that's entirely on you.

Better hope that someone close to you doesn't have a hitherto unseen dark side (hold on, they wouldn't, you'd know right??!), but if they did (they wouldn't of course--all internet history is accounted for as well), but IF they did, it'd be directly reflecting on YOU and you'd of course be guilty by association.

"From the article:"

"former bandmates claim they are innocent of any wrongdoing and knew nothing about anything"

"completely unsubstantiated"

for years they shared backstage spaces, hotels and staying places while touring, where watkins would routinely take underage girls like a revolving door, but sure

"Better hope that someone close to you doesn't have a hitherto unseen dark side (hold on, they wouldn't, you'd know right??!), but if they did (they wouldn't of course--all internet history is accounted for as well), but IF they did, it'd be directly reflecting on YOU and you'd of course be guilty by association."

difficult for it to happen, since i have never toured with a guy that would rape underage girls in the same backstage i was using while i turn a blind eye, idk

i know what you're getting at, but again, this is not just simply 'knowing a guy that did something bad', this is actively turning a blind eye to dark stuff that was happening meters away. these guys watched him groom minors right in front of them

i wouldn't be surprised if the former bandmates didn't know about the digital materials in his phone, or the trafficking, but that's not all the stuff he did, by far

edit: ehm, i think this is as far as i'll go with this argument, feel free to continue but i think this is already dark enough lol. just to reiterate: i think i know what you mean, but again, the most outrageous stuff is nowhere close to all he did

Separating the art from the artist is one thing but if you listen to this you literally have a pedophile's voice in your head

Album Rating: 4.0

You might say it’s attached to the music

"you literally have a pedophile's voice in your head"

I don't understand this logic. Does his voice suddenly sound creepy/bad because he's a pos? If his fucked up views were baked into the lyrics then I could see your point