Album Rating: 4.5

well, I don't think anyone can explain post-modernism sufficiently. this discussion carries on for around 3 decades and has been a central theme for thinkers like Bauman, Lyotard, Habermas ,Ferry, Jameson and others. Also I never said eclecticism defines post-modernism, but only that it is one of its common features.



I also can't understand why you find my use of the term conscious so wrong. Of course I'm talking about intentions, which are never disconnected from the product- they are essentially connected with the work of art. An eclectic work can be eclectic in many ways, and one way is that the creator is conscious of his use of the materials, and this of course affects the creation. Otherwise there is no way of choosing between an abstract artist and a boy spreading colours in a canvas. And this leads to the central question of post modern art which is no other than questioning art itself.



and that means I agree that raped and non-raped post-modernism is so close after all



but you were right, talking about postmodernism in an Autechre thread maybe wasn't a good idea, so the fault is kinda mine. This fuckin word always mixes up things

Album Rating: 4.5

If anything, Autechre display a more post-modern approach in their deconstruction of dance music and rhythmic tradition (Confield, and so on).





that would be an interesting discussion... Imo though, Autechre stand on the edge of modernism- they are somehow ultra-modernists. Which for some is a sign of postmodernism!

Album Rating: 4.5

take it easy base!



I redeem myself often to the sounds of Iron Maiden, Voivod, and a bunch of screaming power-metal bands. how's that?

Album Rating: 4.5

I am trying to stress that the coherence of any supposed eclecticism (again, closely related elements in this case) is what you are really praising, or should be focusing on, and bringing up post-modernism and consciousness only clouds your point.

Otherwise there is no way of choosing between an abstract artist and a boy spreading colours in a canvas.

Album Rating: 4.5

Base your immaturity does not help your cause, and you provide no coherent reasons for liking what you like.



Oh wait, you're probably just post-modern.

Album Rating: 4.5

I am trying to stress that the coherence of any supposed eclecticism (again, closely related elements in this case) is what you are really praising, or should be focusing on, and bringing up post-modernism and consciousness only clouds your point.



I guess your right on this one. I shouldn't have used these words



Does this mean you must understand the process and intentions of the artist, and confirm their conscious use of whatever their chosen materials, in order to appreciate any given piece?



in many cases, yes! Isn't it how we appreciate new kinds of art that by the first contact seem meaningless or absurd? Of course, constant exposure to the work itself is essential, and sensory perception is the starting point, but in a great amount of artworks an explanation of intentions and background is also needed in order to "catch' the spirit. I mean, who could understand Xenakis without a minimal knowledge of classical music, serialism, and the fact that it was an architect? however, isn't this the thing that has also led art to the grounds of the "conceptual"- an art that is highly debatable imo?

Album Rating: 4.5

Interesting. However, I totally disagree when it comes to this. I feel that whether a work is abstract and unfamiliar, or common and approachable (all by one's standards), the faculties which have served one up until that point, are adequate to judge or appraise a new work. I think we do, naturally, regardless of whether we feel ill equipped to handle something new, and pausing to look deeper into its historical and stylistic relations only gives more time for your opinion to change from the original perception, and also opens your opinion up to a number of outside factors (e.g. classic status, mob thought, infamy). While there is nothing wrong with this, and in many cases it is more pleasant for everybody else for one to give something new a chance, and really look into it, most people don't bother, and are quick to go with their initial perception. This is all about avoiding negative judgement however; if a person judged a work of Pollock (or Rothko, Feldman, Cage, or any other "abstract" artist from any field) as aesthetically pleasing, with no real knowledge of the work or its place in history, its influence, or even the artist itself, would you then question their judgement and ask them to look deeper before enjoying the work?



It is great that we usually only ask for permission to hate something, and give new things a chance (we being a small population of enthusiasts in each art form), though I feel that we should always think critically about our own judgement in any case, whether positive or negative, in familiar or unfamiliar territory. What I feel that has plagued art throughout the last century or so is the search for meaning, which has led many to feel as though they can get away with defending their taste by saying "you just don't get it", and produces a culture of people wondering whether they understand a collection of pitches over time. Whether the pitches have any semiotic implications or not, they can still be enjoyed regardless.

just to let you guys know i have been reading this entire discussion and i greatly appreciate it

Album Rating: 4.5

Also, I should have initially said judge, instead of appreciate, because that complicates things a little. Deeper appreciation, through knowledge of historical, technical and stylistic issues, is always a good thing, regardless of judgement. The ability to judge at all, should not be at the mercy of this knowledge, however, as then nobody would judge and instead only study.

Album Rating: 4.5

What Sputnik could be, Hype, what Sputnik could be...

basically you guys show me how little i know about so many things haha

Album Rating: 4.5

Also, this is a great scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxxmuspoJM

5 it bro

i am in constant turmoil as to whether i think this or LP5 is the better album

they're both amazing for different reasons but i just dont know

LP5 had so many weak tracks. I couldn't get into it as much as any of their other stuff

my ranking so far would look like this

1. Tri Repetae
2. LP5
3. Confield
4. Amber
5. Oversteps

and i really love both the Garbage and Anvil Vapre ep's

the rest of their discog im not familiar enough with yet to make a decision except for Incunabula which isnt very good at all

Album Rating: 4.5

Reply to Liledman:



Well stated, and I surely find no strong disagreement about all these, but I still have an objection which justifies my concerning about context-knowledge, and it revolves around the concept of "initial perception" and the opinion that the faculties of a former stage of understanding are adequate for a new understanding. I generally believe that a case like this- a person authentically positive to something wholly different- is usually the exception,and for something like this to happen, the person must have a kind of shared knowledge or understanding with the the spirit of the work. For a metalhead to understand house music with a certain immediacy there must be a missing link, in order for such a "meeting" to happen. Guitar riffing seems miles from crystalline beats and noises, so the given faculties in my opinion don't help. There must be something else in order for the meeting to be successful, and this is the context, the shared background in which art is happening and its interconnections. This involves the work's place in history, the creators' intentions, the press's opinion, personal emotions etc. All these play a huge role in the way we shape our understanding of art, so they serve as links to our given faculties, which are also in constant flux.



What pushes us further to deal with the unfamiliar is one's tenacity and openness to the new. And the unfamiliar I think is never so unfamiliar- in order to be led there, we must have smelled something. The context I'm referring to is almost vital in this approach, mainly because of modern society's features: we never get straight to the facts, to the works themselves, but on the contrary, the works come to us through internet,TV and stuff. Critical thinking generally comes here as a lifeboat, but in this case I'm wondering if it just perplexes things more.



and the whole thing with the culture of ever-wondering-about-art-people is I believe a deeper one, maybe cause I can't face the fact that there are some guys somewhere in that art-thing that have made some good laughs with us

Album Rating: 4.5

wow, it took so long that I've missed a couple of responses!



well, what I have here is a broader definition of those damn faculties and a big thanks to Hyperion for appreciating our conversation!



I'll put on some Autechre in case i find anything...

1. Confield
2. Tri Repetae
3. Untilted
4. Incunabula
5. Quaristice

Album Rating: 4.5

Well scissorlocked I think we have both made our points on that matter quite clear now, so thanks. If anybody else would like to chime in on this issue, feel free because I would interested in how many agree/disagree with each stance.



My top ae albums would be similar to MisterTornado^



and nice dig, need to get that album.