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Album Rating: 5.0
i honestly disagree with that, i find most music that relies on immediacy and "hooks" i guess you
could say doesnt really have any staying power.
in the end it all comes down to subjectivity, but i would rather spend time uncovering the depth of
a difficult album than the instant gratification that comes with more immediate music. im not
saying that you should listen to bad music and make yourself like it, we know our own tastes better
than anyone else and we know what we like and what we dont. and as a result, you can tell when an
album has something hidden that requires effort to uncover.
i cant name a single one of my favorite albums that i loved on first listen. sure i liked it, but
it didnt become personal favorite until i spend time with, got intimate with it and really put
effort into discovering everything about the music, and for me that is infinitely more rewarding
that hearing something immediate and the getting bored and moving onto the next sonic dopamine rush.
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you can't tell me you've never done this to some degree. and if you say you haven't, well, i won't believe you lol
I definitely have, but when I reach a point where I simply can't get into it, I don't accuse the feelings of others to be false simply because they're a well established and respected group.
"if it doesn't click with someone right away it doesn't mean they should devote hours upon hours to see if something changes"
Right, and like you said it doesn't mean it lacks depth at all. It depends on what your listening to, but what I'm trying to say is that often times its easy to overlook music within an initial listen, especially considering the average listening conditions of people these days that practically screams passive (sitting down casually in a chair starring into a computer, constantly multitasking with social networks, movies, tv, etc) It's easy to miss the subtitles of certain music that the artists went to alot of trouble to put in, not to mention it can change the context of the music completely. I can't tell you how many times I've sat and listened to an album for the first time and after I'm done listening, I completely forgot what it sounded like just a few minutes later. And that's stuff that interested me too.
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potsy: cheers
lol i still try to forget that thread ever happened. i actually love that album now. my opinions
change too often, makes it hard for to me to make definitive statements. however, i don't think the
same can be said of th for me. i have tried far harder to like that than sth and still, nothing. i've
taken some great tracks away from it, but taken as a whole, i just don't get it.
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i honestly disagree with that, i find most music that relies on immediacy and "hooks" i guess you
could say doesnt really have any staying power.
another case of the neither/nors man. you can't generalize music into either category, some does both, some does neither, some does one or the other.
i remember arguing with aids for hours about the new autechre album and how i wasn't allowed to have my opinion about not liking it because i had only listened to it twice. ive developed my music taste enough to have a pretty good idea whether something will grow on me or not right off the bat.
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lol i still try to forget that thread ever happened. i actually love that album now. my opinions
change too often, makes it hard for to me to make definitive statements. however, i don't think the
same can be said of th for me. i have tried far harder to like that than sth and still, nothing. i've
taken some great tracks away from it, but taken as a whole, i just don't get it.
admittedly it is a much more difficult album to get through than geo, music, or campfire.... however we agreed that shaking the habitual was like that as well hahaha
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"I definitely have, but when I reach a point where I simply can't get into it, I don't accuse the feelings of others to be false simply because they're a well established and respected group."
you're right, it's unfair. i retract my previous statement
hype: you're right, it is subjective. i will also cede that many of my favourites took a loooooooooong time to truly appreciate, but then there are others like wolf parade's apologies to the queen mary that i loved immediately and still do to this day, even after 20-something plays.
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i remember arguing with aids for hours about the new autechre album and how i wasn't allowed to have my opinion about not liking it because i had only listened to it twice.
see, that kind of shit is just inherently pretentious imo. especially knowing that you've listened to the band before and know their sound pretty well
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"i honestly disagree with that, i find most music that relies on immediacy and "hooks" i guess you could say doesnt really have any staying power."
I'm guess your referring to pop music, but I've found albums like James Ferraro's Live At Primavera Sound 2012, Gimu's A Season In Your Soul, and The Caretaker's An Empty Bliss Beyond This World all to be incredibly immediate, and they all rely on that kind of immediacy and repetition. Of course on subsequent listens I found an even greater connection to these albums, but I don't think you'd have to listen to any of them over and over and over to appreciate what they're trying to say, and that certainly doesn't mean they lack depth or sophistication.
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see, that kind of shit is just inherently pretentious imo. especially knowing that you've listened to the band before and know their sound pretty well
thank you.
i mean of course, what hype said earlier was dead on, about knowing you like an album off the bat but taking lots of time before it becomes your favourite album
but what aids was saying there was like trying to convince me that i dont get it and that if i continued listening to say, some band im super familiar and dont like at all like btbam enough times some day i will love it. bad example cuz i dont hate autechre and they have nothing in common but you know what i mean.
also no offence to aids on that either, love the dude, was just a relevant conversation that we had that this thread made me think of
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yeah thats why i said it all boils down to subjectivity, because i know for a fact i simply consume things different than a lot of other people, but that's my perspective and ill stand by it.
ive spent a lot of time digesting and dissecting my own world view, and nothing i consume i can enjoy in a vacuum. everything i like i have to ask myself "why do i like this, what does it give me and how does it do it". everything from movies to books even to people, so im naturally going to like albums that allow me to do that and be rewarded for the effort.
hell, thats why i only have like 900 ratings on RYM when others have like 3k, i just like to spend time dissecting things rather than having an inundation of information that i cant handle. for others its almost certainly different, but i think in a medium where subjectivity is the only truly quantifiable mode of digestion each perspective need to have proponents and opponents, so that others can understand that their perspective, while sort of unique, isnt solitary.
and solitude is the most abject kind of discomfort.
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hell, thats why i only have like 900 ratings on RYM when others have like 3k, i just like to spend time dissecting things rather than having an inundation of information that i cant handle.
true true true, but also for me at least, again, sometimes i will hear something that i very much enjoy that i just really don't feel the need to dissect. there is just too much music to explore these days and so little time that sometimes you gotta be picky and also choose your battles wisely with music if you know what i mean. some albums just aren't worth penetrating to the soul haha, even if they really are great. for instance the new phantogram, i think its a great album but i also dont feel that i need to sit down and listen to it over and over again and think about it critically, where on the other hand, shaking the habitual was one that i instantly said to myself "many many many hours must be had with this one, and it will be well worth it"
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i'd love to continue the conversation but i'm turning in for the night. g'night gents. cheers for the convo
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@tornado i wasnt really referring to anything in general because a lot of the music i listen to IS immediate, but i rarely find that immediacy translates well in the long run
fuck i listened to death metal for years and loved every single second of it, and that might be some of the most immediate music out there, but then i got to a certain point where it just didnt do the things it did for me anymore, there wasnt anything left to uncover and everything started to sound the same. my music taste was honestly extremely rudimentary until very recently, and i have no problems with admitting that.
i also admit that there is all possibility that ill look back on my current perspective and have similar sentiments, but taking into account the albums from my entire listening career, the ones that have stayed with me have taken the longest to really warm up to, and all i really have to go on is my own personal experience so that's how i kind of have to do things.
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"everything i like i have to ask myself "why do i like this, what does it give me and how does it do
it"."
Definitely, even if it ends up being arbitrary and shallow thoughts, and the more pretentious,
selfish, and ignorant those thoughts get, the more you grow from them. It's all about growth, and
taking in art critically (or the common misconception "over-thinking") leads to the most interesting
ideas from it. Even if those ideas aren't align with popular conceptions or with that the artist's
intentions were, to me those are the most compelling and alluring.
"i also admit that there is all possibility that ill look back on my current perspective and have
similar sentiments"
Completely. I look back on alot of recent year-end lists I made and go LOL WHO IS THIS GUY. Like I
said it's all about growth, constantly refining yourself within the sphere of what your willing to
listen to and accept.
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"if it doesn't click with someone right away it doesn't mean they should devote hours upon hours to see
if something changes."
I don't think this is necessarily true. I think people know when an album has something there for them, they just haven't developed a perspective that fully understands it yet. I don't think anyone would say something is a "grower" for them if they didn't feel like there was at least some potential to be enjoyed present. that's what makes it worth it for people to dig further, they either found one song that really got them or some facet of the music they found interesting. some of my favorite albums were like this at first
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im out too guys, great convo, thanks for being an anchor of hope for intelligent communication in the great big sea of sputnik music respect
also, yes, i did just sign out with an Architects quote mwuahaha
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this conversation will be translated by text to speech and released by WARP at the end of the month. stay tuned
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framing the last 10 pages of this thread and hanging them on the wall next to my bed
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lets get stupid
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Nice album.
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