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and again, just last week, my grandmother, an extremely devout catholic said "we all believe in jesus except the muslims."
ugh. what's worse is that she has, more than another other person I know, follow the idea of a model christian more than anyone. she is always nice, always humble, always respectful, always praying, just not always knowledgeable.
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I agree with all that but similarly, why should someone be so hellbent for me to drop my beliefs in God and adopt his lack of belief? Why is it so important to him that I have the same beliefs as him? Am I not a happy, benefitial member of society? Ultimately isn't that all that matters?
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"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."
C. S. Lewis, as always, being great. I struggle with 'sharing the faith', so to speak, but it's kind of a fundamental of Christian beliefs. Being intolerant and disrespectful to those who disagree with it is the anti-thesis of Christlikeness, but the whole gospel of salvation revolves around the rescuing of all man-kind. Like Lewis said, if it was indeed true, than why would anybody ever keep that to themselves? It'd be an incredibly selfish thing to do, in theory. But fair enough, I'm a selfish creature and don't like being a confrontational guy.
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C S Lewis rules
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And granted, the politics are all human. The argument that, "argh, Christians are such terrible people!" is very tired, because people are terrible everywhere, in every micro-culture of society. Religiosity is a dangerous beast in itself, but it doesn't have a lot to do with most Christians, naive as they may be, and it certainly shouldn't associate with the God Christians will (nominally) say they believe in.
On the subject of the song's 'immaturity', which I realise was just be jabbing people in the gut for a reaction, is an exaggeration of how I actually feel, haha. I just think the whole middle section is very corny, what with the dramatic children's choir. Stephen's wailing in that section is impressive, granted. Lyrically, it's a gem and the entire song I can both empathise with and revere from an artistic stand-point. Musically, the melodies are golden and the last third of the song is one of the most creative and raw bits of music I'll ever hear a pop-punk (around the time) write. It's great. It's just that damn children's choir!
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I don't know if there is a god, and frankly I don't care. because clearly he doesn't care
about
me or anyone, for that matter. in that sense, he/it is just some random person I don't know and will
never met or interact with, so why the hell should I care? he/it clearly doesn't.
One of the main forces of Christianity is on the belief that one day Jesus Christ will come back and
take all of his believers with him, and condemn the rest (or so I've been told. I haven't even eyed
the bible in literally over half a decade, so my memory is loose, very loose), so it's like, they want
you to care because supposedly, it'll save you.
I think it's a lot of bullshit, but if it were true it would be a rather powerful argument.
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^ zactly, gwyn. I'm certainly on the other side of the fence in beliefs, but that's the idea.
And this is coming from a full-time volunteer at a non-profit Christian organisation, I don't believe what I do for shits and giggles. But I don't do it to get into bickers either, because nobody is benefited...
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"it was never mentioned in the bible" Leviticus 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.…
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God said it, so homosexuality is wrong. duh. get over it Cyg, god exists and you're probably going to get ass raped in hell for eternity.
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It's safe to say most Christians ignore Leviticus almost entirely in favour of believing that Jesus brought in a new covenant and new laws when he was born/teaching. You don't see Christians practicing Levitical laws almost ever, unless it comes to homosexuality, which is too selective obviously.
DIY Christianity, at its worst
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i like the guitars on this
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I was just responding to Cyg saying it wasn't mentioned in the bible. Quick google search on this thing called the Internet woulda brought that scripture up.
Christianity has been a massive DIY project since it was started.
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very objective of you
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"Like Lewis said, if it was indeed true, than why would anybody ever keep that to themselves? It'd be an incredibly selfish thing to do, in theory." This is why I don't get upset when I'm approached by street preachers. They are just trying to save my soul from eternal damnation. Even if I disagree with the theology, I can't get angry about that.
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This is why I don't get upset when I'm approached by street preachers. They are just trying to save my soul from eternal damnation. Even if I disagree with the theology, I can't get angry about that.
That's a very aware stance to take. My blood boils at the sound of street preachers myself, and it takes a bit of convincing me to recognise what you've just said for me every time.
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Homosexuality is also condemned in the New Testament in Corinthians and Romans FYI.
I'm not entirely sure but I believe the Quran/Coran condemns it as well, but again I'm not sure.
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I've never heard someone other than Westboro christians say they actually WANT someone to burn in hell. Usually they are just out trying to save souls and witness to the world, as mandated in the bible. It's born out of ignorance, but the intent is admirable, especially when they are trying to save you while knowing there is a high chance they will be "persecuted".
I think agnosticism is the way to god. I've been called a pussy by atheists saying I just don't want to commit, but I think it's just as arrogant to outright claim there is no god, as it is for christians to outright claim there is a god.
My biggest problem with the god of the bible: We're created in his image, so logic and rationale should be god given gifts, yet we are asked to be ignorant like children and to be "sheep" for the shepard.
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way to go*
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As an aside, I appreciate this conversation and the tone people are adopting.
It'd be easier to be dicks, so nice one!
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fine, it was indeed mentioned I was wrong, I meant to say jesus himself didn't say anything about homosexuality. but what I don't get is that some parts of the bible are completely taken seriously but others aren't. the main problem with the bible is that it is supposedly holy and divine when it is and was ultimately who not only wrote it, but would eventually come together what parts of the bible gets to stay and what doesn't.
the problem I have (and I'm sure, many others) with christians isn't the idea of god himself, it's the institution, the hypocrisy, the abuse. very much like martin luther's problem with the catholic church when he started the protestant reformation.
and I don't innately think that christians are bad people, my grandmother is one of the most amazing people I've ever known. if there is a heaven, I've no doubt she'd end up there.
it's perplexing to see such dismissal from christians towards atheists, because at their most basic levels, they aren't very much different. atheists believe that all of the gods and deities conjured up by humans don't exist or never existed or aren't properly represented at all by the supposed religions around them. whereas christians believe in the exact same thing, except for the one god that which they do believe.
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