Album Rating: 4.0

It wasn't

Album Rating: 4.0

Ah, fair enough.

Album Rating: 3.5

Even with this recent album out, I for one, have not encountered a single obnoxious tool fan anywhere in like maybe half a decade. Maybe if you go on their subreddit or something, but if that's the case, then just go on any band's subreddit and it's the same thing. Comments about tool fans though??? Unceasing.

Also, it's not hard to listen to new music in 2023 from a band someone hasn't heard before. It should be the same exact experience of listening to something for the first time as it would have been any other time before. This ridiculous insight that somehow it's near impossible to approach nowadays is absurd. That's just one's subjective experience of how they perceive the band today, why would it also cross over into someone who hasn't even heard them before? Tool was like way more popular ten years ago so if anything the talk about them then would have made it more difficult to "approach" especially if you had already heard their most popular stuff at the time (because it was more likely then) and didn't like it.

Album Rating: 2.0

The idea that awareness of a band's legacy would impact how someone approaches their work first-hand for the first time isn't ridiculous in the slightest lol

Album Rating: 3.5

Such to the extent that one wouldn't even know how to approach it? It's a little extreme. How much do people listen or read about a band's legacy before actually listening to them nowadays? At a certain point you let the music do the talking, since that's what it's there for in the first place.

Album Rating: 2.0

You can take that as hyperbole for sure, but interpret it as

such to the extent that one would consider their overexposure to the band narratives and image so deeply ingrained that they had negligible prospect of forming a personal standpoint in full independence therefrom and/or little interest in doing so due to lack of personal investment in the music and the gradually receding relevance of the narratives/image in question

and I'd call it a reasonable take

Album Rating: 3.0

good takes itt except for goodolboy which is ironic

Album Rating: 3.5

>such to the extent that one would consider their overexposure to the band narratives and image so deeply ingrained that they had negligible prospect of forming a personal standpoint in full independence therefrom and/or little interest in doing so due to lack of personal investment in the music and the gradually receding relevance of the narratives/image in question

I apologize in advance, but I do have to copypasta this.

You just evoked like a dozen sentiments in that statement so if you came up with that just now on the spot, kudos to you. I must say for one that is one of the most pretentious extrapolations I've seen about musical inquiry, and it was just a page ago that the obnoxiousness of tool fans was brought up, and this somehow kicks the supposed obnoxiousness of that straight up into the air. I would next question the person immersing themselves so deeply into the context and legacy of the band that they rabbitholed themselves into a paralysis before even listening to it, and therefore knowing practically nothing despite such overexposure that they might as well be a dripping mess before ever even hitting play. And this is somewhat more realistic and less hyperbolic than what I said? Postmodernism really has done some damage to the collective brain if this is the type of shit that comes frothing out as a reasonable and go-to formulated response. In all honesty, the band's legacy is nothing, if but second to the music itself. Now it makes sense in this day and age to do everything backwards. "Hey, I want to listen to this band for the first time, let me read and watch everything about them before I do the thing I wanted to do which was listen to them, hope it doesn't screw it up!" "Oh shit, I forgot how to formulate my own opinion because I was just exposed to so much information and content I literally don't know what to do with myself and now I might not even know who I am!!!" All types of shit I'm sure the band would be annoyed about to begin with anyway.

What you're saying isn't much different from say, how people have a problem with French New Wave cinema. I get that a barrier exists, and can even increase over time, but what you're describing is the extreme end of the scenario and placing it into the context that it is now normal and relative of today. And I still find that extreme perception ridiculous, and I don't think me saying that is hyperbole.

Album Rating: 4.0

"Such to the extent that one wouldn't even know how to approach it? It's a little extreme. How much do people listen or read about a band's legacy before actually listening to them nowadays?"

I started addressing your previous point, but my browser fucked up and the conversation moved on a bit, but, do you honestly believe it is possible to approach a band like Tool completely without prejudice (good or bad) nowadays? They are huge, and whether you've heard their music or not, a band that can charge £80 for their latest CD (with a fucking Alex Grey music vid built into the cover... released before their first batch of even more crazy-expensive vinyls) would at least, bring some kind of expectation (possible trepidation) before ever playing the thing.

If you look back on these threads, the user Mort. (who I happen to regard as a good lad, based on my time here as an active user), has repeatedly said that he's never heard Tool (or at the very least, played an LP all the way through). Do you think he'd be saying that about any band he hasn't heard, or one whose preconceptions are as particularly loaded as Tool's? Rhetorical question as it's a massive difference.

Album Rating: 4.0

good takes itt except for goodolboy which is ironic



Nah my take is great. Your view is just shit no surprises. I mean if you fit in to the hate tool crowd good for you but I don't roll like that

Album Rating: 2.0

*sigh*

>if you came up with that just now on the spot, kudos to you.

I mean, cheers but...

>You just evoked like a dozen sentiments in that statement

...like most things in orbit of Tool, it ain't that deep.

>the most pretentious extrapolations I've seen about musical inquiry

it is an individual vicarious standpoint not a generalised extrapolation

>the obnoxiousness of tool fans was brought up, and this somehow kicks the supposed obnoxiousness of that straight up into the air

doth protest too much methinks

>I would next question the person immersing themselves so deeply into the context and legacy of the band that they rabbitholed themselves into a paralysis before even listening to it, and therefore knowing practically nothing despite such overexposure

if you've never enjoyed extended participation on a meme thread for a band you care nothing about, your loss (on the one hand a questionable thing to do; on the other, the highest joy of this site)

>they might as well be a dripping mess before ever even hitting play. And this is somewhat more realistic and less hyperbolic than what I said?

i would never miscategorise my vicariously conceived hypothetiMort so cruelly, goodness ! this is a savage hyperbole, so yes yes yes my comment is more realistic than urs thank you very much

>Postmodernism really has done some damage to the collective brain

doth protest too much methinks [2]

>if this is the type of shit that comes frothing out as a reasonable and go-to formulated response.

and [3]

>In all honesty, the band's legacy is nothing, if but second to the music itself.

well, if, uh, you've, like, uh, heard the music then sure, i can imagine how that would be a very easy thing to say lmfao

>Now it makes sense in this day and age to do everything backwards. "Hey, I want to listen to this band for the first time, let me read and watch everything about them before I do the thing I wanted to do which was listen to them, hope it doesn't screw it up!"

irrelevant to the scenario. goodboi Mort. has been around long enough to know the ins and outs of Tool discourse and yet has just never heard the band. both of these are circumstantial; you are misrepresenting them as an active choice

Album Rating: 2.0

>"Oh shit, I forgot how to formulate my own opinion because I was just exposed to so much information and content I literally don't know what to do with myself and now I might not even know who I am!!!"

every time you formulate an opinion on anything you wade through some form of outside interference or predisposition; degree to which you self-scrutinise is up to you. again, not that deep (other than deeply everyday). who was being hyperbolic again?

>All types of shit I'm sure the band would be annoyed about to begin with anyway.

lol who gives two shits what the band think, they're a bunch of over-precious cranks who conflate impressive musicianship with licence to make stultified nerd music of the lowest order





[don't call me]

Album Rating: 2.0

now there's the FI thread i've been missing for so long -- we'll hit 666 in no time at all at this rate, gang!

Album Rating: 3.5

I appreciate the reply Isis, and I'll try to hit your points on it.

I believe it's possible to approach a band like Tool without prejudice, even today. In all honesty, I would say Isis is a band that has much more of a boundary between the listener and Tool that makes approaching them more difficult if pre-existing perception is eliminated, and that's just to say that Tool isn't even really a "hard" band "to get". My 67 year old mother loves Tool, and I just spent five months living with her and playing the entire gambit of my musical catalog in her presence, including Meshuggah and Ulcerate along the way. Now she doesn't like 70% of it, but the point is that there's still a possibility of forming an outlook on the material regardless of what exists outside it. This is possible actually with every person, for any thing, the problem is that usually the individual feels the need to defer to an outside source to consult their own opinion and feeling, rather than what is offered in the face-value notion. The experience of listening to Tool nowadays without preconceived prejudice is 100% possible if it was firmly decided by the listener to do so, and everyone technically has that capacity to make that decision.

As far as their music being expensive, well that's something seperate and certainly informs the relationship between fans. I guess nowadays people might not want to listen to something first time unless they can hear it in peak conditions with the best equipment, but that doesn't mean you still can't "hear" their music on spotify or youtube or (in my case) cd or cassette to understand what the band is doing musically. Those are all options I think would be crossed first by someone who is a first time listener before the big bucks on vinyl.

For the thing on Mort, I recognize him as a frequent/steady user but am quite unfamiliar with his stance and history on things, and on this topic in particular. I really can't comment, but if you feel he falls in line with what some of what you or I has said then I can't disagree. I think these types of things can be said for most any band in all honesty. The big names in the game bring that upon them in some sort of way, so all I can say is that it seems like in this case, it's a particular user with this particular band.. Tool's legacy and preconceptions, while I admit certainly are there, are equal and in some cases less than other artists on this site, so to me, it being done here is somewhat run of the mill in terms of where we've gone in conversational discourse over the years on this site. Hopefully that wasn't too half baked of a reply.

Album Rating: 3.5

JohnnyoftheWell if you think that at all is a relevant or appropriate reply to me, then I accept your concede. It's no surprise to be hit with blatant dismissal and a roll of the eyes by attempting to break down every line I wrote with simply empty, vacuous retort. I appreciate you may somehow think you're above the conversation now, so "it's not a big deal" and would rather memespeak your way through a response that "I doth protest too much methinks" because you're now just too affluent to care, but it was you who replied to me with what seemed like some kind of dangly leg in the fight with it's own air of preposterousness, that was purely in my right to address.

Album Rating: 2.0

honey if you're gonna commit to these kinda wordcounts, imma have to suggest you take the time to read up on what affluence is or how prejudice actually works

and most importantly, who Mort. really is

Album Rating: 3.5

Didn't think you wanted to go any more philosophical than we already did here, because those words still apply sweetcakes. I also specifically, and in my most unbiased way possible, tried to leave Mort out of the conversation (for the sake of who he specifically is). So do you think you win the conversation because you know something about Mort that I don't, when that is only 1 point brought up out of five and only because of some apparent necessity?

Keep earning those bucks on here Johnny, it hasn't inflated anything about you whatsoever. Oh wait, am I not allowed to say that because I don't know anything about Mort??

Album Rating: 4.0

You mfs type to much LOL jesus christ. Never in my life would to type out 20 paragraphs on here

Album Rating: 3.5

JohnnyoftheWell if you're going to critique grammar and attempt to be a properly spoken individual, imma have to remind you that imma is absolutely nothing but grammatical slang and a ridiculous posture of negation, both on the point and on yourself. Imma haveta really gunna do something about it, imma am.

Album Rating: 2.0

i am unsure what you think is at stake here (beyond increased intimacy with Mort., which you are so adorably shying away from)

but you refusing to respond to any of my specific engagement with your comment on the basis that it is all a lil too dismissive makes me wonder whether you have a few defensive biases of your own to work through, and whether channelling those towards dismissive fits of your own is particularly conducive to a credible image of ur right to address

but by all means keep channelling lol i love this thread