Album Rating: 3.0

yes!



but Descending is amazing, easily my favorite on here......especially the final 5 or 6 minutes

Album Rating: 3.0

"Ever wonder why they pretty much stay away from that album in their live show?"



Yes, because Maynard can't sing those songs anymore (most of them anyways). They still play at least 1 song from it each show.

Album Rating: 3.5

7empest is mad overrated, great choice on Invincible as a top pick here tho. Probably the only song other than the T/T that isn't bloated in some place or another

Album Rating: 3.0

Sober is played every other show, so half the shows on this tour don't even touch it. And Maynard can sing them just fine, killer voice still and a perfectionist at that.



I don't want to sound like I'm bashing the record, because I do love it.

Album Rating: 3.0

"And Maynard can sing them just fine, killer voice still and a perfectionist at that."



I love Maynard and all and he's still got a great voice for his age but he doesn't come close to the live performances in the late 90's. Specifically the songs from Undertow are very intense, with a lot of screams and belts and he just can't sustain that anymore. Compare a sober performance from this tour with one from '92 -'96 and you'll see what I mean.

Album Rating: 3.0

That goes for every singer. He's 57 going on 47. Anyone expecting him to perform them like he did in '92 is in for a rude awakening. But that doesn't mean he can't perform them today effictively, because he can, and he has. Tool are not at a point yet where they cant play 'that' song because Maynard can't handle it.

Album Rating: 3.0

That's just not true lol. Maynard's voice is blown and there is no way he can perform songs like Bottom, Undertow etc. without significantly altering them to fit his current voice. I mean just listen to Bottom after 5:00, Maynard is literally incapable of producing such screams and belts anymore. Why do you think he doesn't scream/belt the chorus of Sober anymore and even with the revamped version that he sings you can still hear him struggling to reach those notes and his voice being on the verge of breaking.



I agree that 30 years of screaming will do that to your voice. I'm not singling him out for being an exception or anything, just stating the plain fact that there are songs that he cannot sing anymore. Why do you think they changed the tuning to The Pot live. Hell, you can see videos of Maynard singing Parabola live and struggling to hit those notes as far back as 2002/2003 and he was still amazing back then. It's okay, we all age. Better to stick with what he can reasonably sing.

Album Rating: 3.0

Ugh, I get your point, but they still play Sober, don't they? So that goes against your point. They're playing Hooker With A Penis for christs sake! And he did it great. Songs like Bottom and Undertow are never even in the setlists post Aenima anyway, so nothing has changed there. A performance can still be tweaked and sound great live when it deviates from the studio recording.



The reason they don't play those songs much anymore is because they have way too much quality material that came after Undertow, to fit into a 2:15 minute set. Hence, my original point.

Album Rating: 3.0

"Ugh, I get your point, but they still play Sober, don't they? So that goes against your point."



OC said they still play Sober, but Maynard doesn't sing the chorus the same way he used to, suggesting that he no longer can.

Album Rating: 3.0

Perhaps, but again haha, they're playing the song live. Nothing wrong with deviating from the studio recording.

Album Rating: 3.0

They are signing Sober, but in Sober he can get away with it because it's not as intense as some of the other songs. Hooker with a penis is him literally using some sort of a mic compressor to replicate a distorted/screaming effect but everyone knows he's not really screaming and it's just a trick that allows him to not actually scream the verses as he does on the song.



"A performance can still be tweaked and sound great live when it deviates from the studio recording."



Sure, but there's only so much you can tweak some songs without altering them too much. On the above examples he can get away with it because of the aforementioned stylistic changes. On a song like Bottom, where 2/3rds of the runtime is him belting and screaming from the depths of his soul, there is no realistic way to reproduce that live nowadays without completely fucking it up.



"The reason they don't play those songs much anymore is because they have way too much quality material that came after Undertow, to fit into a 2:15 minute set. Hence, my original point."



I disagree. If he could sing them, they would have performed them at least a few times. It's the same as expecting a song like Jerk-off to be performed. That song is literally a hell for anyone's vocals and he knows better than to stay away from that. I do agree on principle that some times artists just decide that they do not want to perform certain songs because they don't relate to them/ like them anymore, but my gut feeling, stemming from seeing Maynard's vocal progression is that, even if they wanted to, he couldn't possibly perform them.

Album Rating: 3.0

So, to you, they've avoided most songs on Undertow for the last 20 years because Maynard couldn't sing them? 20 years ago, he was 37.



He can easily 'perform' 7 of those 9 songs on Undertow live today. Hands down.

Album Rating: 3.0

The age doesn't matter. Maynard was showing signs of decline, albeit marginal ones, by the time they toured Lateralus and there's plenty of material that showcases it. There's a video where his voice breaks multiple times during the chorus Parabola, he gets pissed, literally slams the mic on the ground and walks off the stage. Notice how he also skips the last part of pushit live nowadays which is the most intense part of the song. The evidence is everywhere.



I'd say it's perfectly consistent that around that timethey stopped performing their most intense songs off that record.



"He can easily 'perform' 7 of those 9 songs on Undertow live today. Hands down."



He can "easily" perform like half and even those would need some obvious adjustments.



Same with A Perfect Circle btw. 3 Libras is a perfect example. It's easily a top 3 song of theirs, yet they never perform it nowadays (that retarded remix doesn't count). Maynard struggles to hit those high chorus notes hard if you watch any of the scarce performances from like early 2010's.

Album Rating: 3.0 | Sound Off

'Notice how he also skips the last part of pushit live nowadays which is the most intense part of the song'



i dont remember him skipping it when i saw it

Album Rating: 3.0

The "staring down the hall again, hands are on my back again, survivor is my only friend, terrified of what may come" part he either skips or talks through it and it's on every pushit video this year that I've seen so idk you may have just been lucky.



I still give him massive props, because unlike other certain aging vocalists (*cough* Serj Tankian *cough*) he still puts a 100% effort in his performances and his craft, and he still actually surprises me now and then, even though he has a more limited range now than he did before. Never thought he would pull off "Part of me", or do the Grudge's last scream live again for example.

Album Rating: 3.0

They've played half of Opiate, Ticks and Leeches, and a few off Undertow in relatively recent times. He can sing the songs. And you're right Valkoor about certain effects used on certain songs (like Hooker). Effects can be used on any song if need be. I remember an interview with Maynard where he was saying he's in a different place now from when he wrote a lot of those songs. It's not a new interview, but he didn't even want to play many of them not long after Aenima.

Album Rating: 3.0

Again, I'd love to hear some of those live, especially Undertow, 4°, and Flood

Album Rating: 3.5

"I still give him massive props, because unlike other certain vocalists (*cough* Serj Tankian *cough*) he still puts a 100% effort in his performances and he still actually surprises me now and then, even though he has a more limited range now than he did before. Never thought he would pull off "Part of me", or do the Grudge's last scream live again for example."



I definitely agree about the Serj Tankian thing. I was watching some recent live SOAD videos, and you can totally tell that his heart isn't in the performances whatsoever. No matter how many people try to push for it, I'm almost 100% certain that SOAD are never actually going to make another full-length album again. Their personalities and politics conflict with each other way too much, and it seems like they're much happier when working on their own independent projects. If anything, I think we should be lucky that we even got the five albums we do have by them



At this point, I don't even think I want another album by them anymore. Especially if the members aren't on the same page

Album Rating: 3.0

"And you're right Valkoor about certain effects used on certain songs (like Hooker). Effects can be used on any song if need be."



Yes, but if he uses these effects to mask the most intense parts of the songs it kind of proves my point. He cannot use the mic compressor for a song like Bottom though, that would be ridiculous.



I'm not even sure why we are still arguing, like it's clear he has declined vocally and cannot belt/scream as he did before hence it makes sense as to why they may avoid certain songs.



Why do you think the last two records with both APC and Tool have been so mellow in comparison to their previous output. There's not one scream on this record, even though some songs (7empest) are begging for it. Even beyond just screaming, he does not belt/ sing any note on this record or Eat The Elephant with nearly the same intensity as he has done for each of the 6 records prior. It's why it almost feels like he is on autopilot here. His vocals on these songs are purposefully easier so that he can have an easier time live nowadays.

Album Rating: 3.0

"At this point, I don't even think I want another album by them anymore. Especially if the members aren't on the same page"



Yeah completely agree. Don't need SOAD songs where Serj sings like Mickey Mouse with 0 passion, no thanks. If the urgency and the desire for the creation of a new record does not outweigh the differences/ divergent opinions of each band member then it's better left in the dust.



The thing is, I also kind of don't want Tool to release another record either though lol. I am afraid it will be as middle of the road as this one and it's not something I would want added to what was otherwise a near perfect discography (with the exclusion of this ofc).