Album Rating: 3.5

wait... people have never really heard somebody say 'shit the bed' and think that the dude is actually duecing in his sheets?... maybe it really is just a regional thing...



and since when did it become cool to say that tool isn't good? is it impossible to be a great band and just not appeal to certain people?



it took me at least 3 listens through the album to get into it. after the first one, i was really disappointed, but now its pretty much all i listen to. gotta let it grow on you.

tool wierd name awsome band

"You're clearly a Tool fanboy, I don't think any other explanation is necessary."

Fuck you. No other explanation is necessary.

"Shit the bed is a figure of speech."

It is. I've heard this expression long before (i.e. at least 15 years) before this album came out. Perhaps you have not heard it, but so what. Get over yourself.

"You're telling Iai to listen to more music?"

I am doing exactly that [GASP!!]. Perhaps I should have offered him felatio instead. My apologies.

The ambient tracks may be an attempt to create a mood, but to me they add nothing, detract from the flow of the album, and piss me off

That is my opinion, just because a band is labeled as progressive (although I don't see much progress here) doesn't give them justification for pointless ambience, repetition, and noodling

I mean I like CAN for example, I especially enjoy Aumgn and Peking 0, I find those tracks, though devoid of traditional instrumentation to be amazing, in contrast I find Tool's attempts at ambience and space filling, by reaching into their past and playing the same riff for 2 minutes to fill space, to be utterly useless, I don't need the CD to be maxed out in order to enjoy an album
Again, my subjective opinion, I don't hear music the same way you do maybe, but to me Tool really pisses me off sometimes cause they seem to handicap themselves, I like them I really do, but not at the expense of sacrificing perspective for the sake of the massive erection some seem to get when they hear the band nameThis Message Edited On 05.09.06This Message Edited On 05.09.06This Message Edited On 05.09.06

"Really, I've heard just about every Tool song there is and I used to be a really big fan of them as well. But after I realized that they aren't really going to progress at all, even after half a decade, I lost a lot of respect for them. I'm a bassist, so Justin's basslines will always be captivating to me. And I don't need to say what makes Danny Carey a machine at the drums. But I'm not going to slobber all over their collective dicks just because they finally released a new album. I'm gonna step back and analyze it in the context of its release, and understand that it's just "okay.""

Congratulations.

do you take every criticism of tool, even by people who admit that they like them anyway, to be a personal attack, hr123?

"Man, you're so hXc. You heard "shit the bed" like 15 years ago. Would you happen to have a Minor Threat demo tape?"

Well, I'll admit that I have no idea what hXc means or the reference to Minor Threat is. All I can tell you is that "shit the bed" is an expression in my part of the world (suffice it to say middle america) that pre-dates 10,000 days or Tool. Perhaps you have not heard of it. That's fine, but quit acting like and ignorant jack ass. If someone from England told me that X was an expression in England, my reaction would be to believe them, not to tell them that they are full of it because I personally have never heard of it. Once again, you're wrong about this, it has nothing to do with tool, and get over yourself.

"do you take every criticism of tool, even by people who admitthat they like them anyway, to be a personal attack, hr123?"

I have no problem with people disliking tool, and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack. I think some of the reasoning in the review is factually wrong (i.e. comment about Jambi vocals), and some of it misinformed (i.e. "shit the bed" debate). I have no problem with the statement "I think 10,000 Days sucks." Fine. When you say "I think 10,000 days sucks because X" you open youself up to critisisms based on whether your reasoning is good. I think the reasoning is poor. But, trust me, it really makes no difference to me what you think of tool. What's the point of comments if you can't critique he critique.

"The album pretty much has some very apparent flaws, and it makes it all the more charming. Just not as good as Lateralus"

Disagreed, but that's the whole point of this thing. If you don't like it say why, and I'll say what I think of the why.

never said it sucks, said its overblown and drawn out

I like some of what I've heard and I like alot of tool songs, I just can't bear to listen for an extended period of timeThis Message Edited On 05.09.06

"never said it sucks"

And I don't think anybody here really did. But, the forest for the trees here. I don't care whether you like the CD or not. I'll still enjoy it. I'm just debating some of the reasoning in the criticisms that I find weak. Again, think what you want, personal taste is a completely legitimate basis on which to dislike the album. But, don't attempt to move from the subjective to the objective without a frim foundation.

Another comment on the review:

"Nor is the conclusion that his mother is an angel - '10,000 Days in the fire is long enough/You're coming home'."

Unless I miss your meaning, I'm pretty sure this lyric has nothing to do with whether old mom was an angel. "10,000 days in the fire" refers to the length of time that she lived in paralysis, which I think could qualify as close enough to hell to be referred to as "the fire." Just another case of passing over the meaning too quickly.

"If we're talking 'strained', then that could never possibly be a fact either way to anyone who wasn't actually watching Maynard record it. If you're talking about it being only a few notes in the vocal melody, then that's factually true. Count them."

Strained: don't see it. Otherwise, it's not any less monotone (or non-monotone) that any other maynard vocal. He goes through a few different (although typically Maynard) styles on the song. While I'll admit I haven't counted the notes, I think the incorrectness is in the comparison to other tool songs.

"As you're a newcomer, you should know that I'm known on the site as a fan of Krysyztof Penderecki, Diamanda Galas, Charles Mingus, Claude Debussy, Eric Dolphy, Steve Reich, John Zorn (etc. etc. etc.), AND Sugababes and Kelly Clarkson (etc.), so your comment really is redundant - hence the incredulous response."

Ok, I appologize for assuming. But, really, this just means that the lack of patience in the review, and the affection for the most accesible songs on the record even less explicable.

"Where did she go when she died?"

To the Lord's arms, as she always believed, Maynard hopes.

The rest:

That's fine. I have nothing to quarell about in that statement. Is Tool as creative as, say King Crimson...no, definitely not. But, I'd rather listen to tool, for whatever reason. But I don't think they fall flat i.e. the comparison to Lincoln Park. Tool is what it is (to use and overrused expression) - they deliver a lot, but I think people paint them to be more than they are. Did anybody thing that the band that made Opiate and Undertow at hte time (or even Aeima) was fucking revolutionary, as opposed to just a really good metal band? My personal preference is for a really good, creative metal band , more than a King Crimson, but leaving room to listen to the more creative stuff on occasion. My only point was to bring out how much of the reivew was about your own preferences, rather than what the band actually wrote in the context of what they are, which is not what people have built them up to be. I still think your original review pretty much blows, but I can get behind the revised version.

"I feel Tool are better when they're sticking to leftfield, enigmatic hard rock songs"

To me, this describes Rosetta Stoned much more than Vicarious (which, aside from its length and maynard vocals, sounds pretty standard for hard rock radio), but I guess that's just different perspectives.

Album Rating: 4.0

The fact that you take on every single comment and respond to it with the indignation usually reserved for personal insults is what makes you a fanboy, hr123. You really need to let it go.



If someone else is willing to back you up on the "shit the bed" argument then I'm willing to give up that point. But unless you're not being sarcastic when you responded to my post with merely "Congratulations," then perhaps you should learn to understand why people think the way they do about this Tool album. Especially since that post you glossed over revealed exactly why I'm not the polar opposite of you (i.e. someone who hates Tool).

fanboy

Well, if it matters, I can tell you that my musical tastes are as wide ranging as your hero's and that my music collection is closer to a thousand titles than a hundred. I'm a grown person who pays his way in this world. I've earned my right to my opinion. But, I'm having fun here actually. I take this less seriously than you might think. It's less indignation than amusement. So take "fanboy" and shove it up your ass. It's called attacking the messenger.

Back up "shit the bed"

I don't need anyone on this board to "back me up." Look, read the lyric in that context. Why in the hell you think I would have anything to gain by making this up, I don't have any clue. It's true. Whether you want to believe it or not is your business.

Your post was asinine. I don't care whether you hate tool or you're the president of their fanclub.

"Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and read you all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen
Shit the bed again ...
Typical."

He LITERALLY means he shit the bed here. Give me a fcuking break. I forgot my pen, oh fcuk, typical.

Album Rating: 4.0

You say you're not taking this seriously? Your posts are nothing but personal attacks and asterisks that I can only assume stand for profanities. The level of indignation eminating from your posts is astounding.