Just report the problem to Bartender to merge this with the original review.

Threads merged.

Well the first review on page 1 sucked. All it did was quote a lyric from each song. Wow. When reading reviews, i'd rather hear more about what the music is like, what the feelings/moods are like, what the musicianship is like. Not lyrical quotes - anyone can quote some lyrics.

Anyway, I think this is an awesome album however definately not as good as Mer De Noms. This album for me gets 8/10.

You rated "Vanishing" as average? How disrespectful...it's the most beautiful and chilling song on the album.

i love this album.

i also happen to disagree with 90% of the ratings in this review.

Album Rating: 2.5

This is a terrible review for a great album. This album is very conceptual, moody, haunting, and with great guitar riffs. You barely touched on many of the above things, like how the "filler" tracks (Lullaby, etc) add to the mood and move the album along as a whole.

My friend Frank's cousin is Jeordie White, their bassist... I look forward to meeting the band someday.

3.5/5

Far more weaker when compared to Mer de Noms. It has some strong tracks [the first 3 tracks are my favourites]; however, this doesn't prevent it from being a boring listen in the end. Too many filler tracks.

The Outsider is actually about a person and addiction to drugs. If you buy the new DVD with Emotive and Amotion MJK himself explains the lyrics in that song and others. The Noose is also about a person and his like you said 'righteousness'. But the righteousness is due to the fact that he is a recovered alcoholic. "So glad to see you well" being right at the start. And the halo coming down to choke him now would be a relapse into alcoholism.

Pretty second rate band, don't like this album that much, it's alright.

(don't compare them to Tool, they're a completely different band)

agh! i cant believe you gave Blue a four - its an amazing song, as well as Weak and Powerless, another great song. I agree with Pet/Gravity though, those are two well constructed/brilliantly masterminded songs. I dislike crimes as well... Vanishing isnt my favorite either. thought i might pose my opinion.

Glad to see most of you love this album even though some don’t get what it’s really about at all. Some others have posted fairly close interpretations of what some of the songs really mean/are about but I think to truly understand and appreciate this CD you have to see that the ‘entire album is one whole story’.

This makes all the song’s fit together instead of looking/rating each track on it’s own and also explains the brief tracks ‘lullaby’ and ‘crimes’ people are constantly and wrongly dismissing as ‘filler’.

(and if I’m wrong about it being one whole story, I think it’s pretty odd how well the songs all fit as I’m going to describe them....)

The first song ‘The Package’ is about the addict trying to score some drugs (probably Heroin) and that it’s the ONLY thing he cares about. The ‘package’ being the drugs.

People are talking to him and he could care less. He pretends he’s listening but he keeps glancing at the package. Just wants to get the drugs he came for and get the hell out of there.

“Eye on what I'm after, I don't need another friend...

Smile and drop the cliche, ‘till you think I'm listenin’...

I take just what I came for, then I'm out the door again...”

The next track ‘Weak and Powerless’ is about who runs his life when it comes to drugs and the title says it all. He’s totally powerless and addicted. Desperate and ravenous.

Tilling my own grave to keep me level...
Jam another dragon down the hole...

The ‘dragon’ is Heroin I believe injected into his veins (the hole).

Digging to the rhythm and the echo of a solitary siren...

His one (solitary) purpose. A ‘siren’ I think is to represent the danger/emergency of this life totally hooked on drugs. The purpose that -

“-pushes me along and leaves me so...desperate and ravenous....

I'm so-
Weak and Powerless.....
-over you”

He’s saying he knows he’s addicted and powerless over ‘you’ -the drugs.

The next rack ‘The Noose’ was hard to figure out till you really look at the lyrics closely...

It’s about this addict being in one of those 12 Step ‘Hi, my name is X. I’ve been an addict for X-amount of years...’ groups (hence this album’s title being 13th Step coming after a 12 step program).

He’s sitting there listening to this self-righteous former addict and probably drug dealer guy talk about his life before he was 'born again'. And people getting heavily into religion to kick an addiction is typically a big part of the most common 12-step programs like AA, NA, etc..

The addict’s thinking to himself about this guy -

“-So glad to see you have overcome them, completely silent now-“

The guy saying he’s totally off of drugs now.

“-With heaven's help you cast your demons out....-“

The guy’s saying he’s born again. That god helped him do it and the guy’s very smug about it like he’s holier than thou, so the addict thinks to himself -

“-And not to pull your halo down around your neck and tug you off your cloud...-“

The halo is symbolic. Like this guy thinks he’s ‘holy’ now. Like he’s walking around with a halo on his head and if the addict would say what he’d like to say it’d be like pulling that halo down and pulling this guy offa’ the cloud he thinks he’s on.

“-But I'm more than just a little curious how you're plannin’ to go about making your amends to the dead?-“

I believe meaning ‘all the people this guy's helped kill’ by selling them these same drugs everyone in the room’s been addicted to. Adding -

“-Recall the deeds as if they're all someone else's atrocious stories.
Now you stand reborn before us all. So glad to see you well.-“

The smug guy is talking about the horrible person he used to be as it it were someone else. As if now that he’s ‘born again’ that he doesn’t have to care or take responsibly or shame for the crimes of his past and the addict sees that hypocrisy.

The next track ‘Blue’ is about this addict who still hasn’t kicked his addiction is with someone he never really got to know but here she is O.D.’ing and turning ‘blue’ in front of him.

“-Best to keep things in the shallow end, ‘cuz I never quite learned how to swim.-“

Incredibly clever way of talking about being shallow/self-centered and disconnected don’t you think!?

“-I close my eyes....Ignore the smoke...Ignore the smoke....-“

She’s O.D.ing and he can’t look at it. Doesn’t want to see it. He never even really knew her.

“-Call it aftermath, she's turning blue.-“

She’s dying in front of him

“-While I just sit and stare at you.-“

The line ‘such a lovely color for you’ I think is just clever and twistedly comical. As if ‘turning blue’ from dying has a perverse double meaning for what color looks good on a woman. Like -blue brings out the color of your eye honey.

Next track ‘Vanishing’ is short and very trippy. People are looking at it like it’s a straight forward song calling it filler.

It’s not. The point is that the addict has been through all this crap and just seen this chick O.D. in front of him and so he goes back to the drugs to escape from the world. From everything.

The song is simply what ‘being high’ is. It couldn’t be a song full of verses and complex music ‘cuz being high is just one thing -‘vanishing’ out of you mind.

If you listen to it with this in mind I think you’ll see it for what it is and appreciate it more.

‘A Stranger’ is next and I’m not 100% sure I quite get what it is. It seems like at least partly about someone trying to help the addict get offa’ drugs again. But the person's a ‘total stranger’ so he's like -who the hell are you? Why should I listen to you? I don't even know you?' as a way to pretend to himself that this stranger’s not actually completely right about him and his addiction.

“-while I formulate denials of your affect on me.”

He pretty much knows this person’s right but still wants to act like they’re totally wrong.
Thinking things like -

“-You're a stranger so what do I care?-“

“-You vanish today. Not the first time I hear.-“

That seems to imply that it’s some kind of drug counselor . They try to get through to him that he’s screwed up but they have to leave and see other people too.

Someone here suggested that these next lines are about him rejecting religion. Refering to holy ghost, jesus, and god the father...
Maybe it has that meaning or double meaning but I don’t think so -ever though I know Maynard is very anti-religion/christianity esp. (as am I).

“-Shy away shy away phantom-“
Possibly the holy ghost but doesn’t seem clear at all.
“-Run away, terrified child.-“

I can’t see how ‘terrified child’ could mean jesus?

“-move away you fucking tornado.-“

And I really can’t see the word ‘tornado’ meaning god the father and for this meaing to be right all three lines have to be correct. I just don’t see it.

I think it’s the addict in his own mind fighting with himself as a terrified child, phantom, and the drugs as the fucking tornado within him.

He’s thinking he’s “-I'm better off without you....”
Either the drugs or this stranger who’s counseling him and “-tearing my will down.”

Very surreal lyrics though. Probably would take Maynard giving us the answer to ever be sure.

The next track ‘The Outsider’ is the point where this addict totally hits bottom. And why it’s one of the few harder/heavier points in the story.

It's from the point of view of someone who doesn’t understand his drug addiction like possibly a parent or girlfriend or someone like that.
This 'outsider' (meaning outsider to his drug world) goes back and forth between desperatly asking the addict to explain the addiction to them -the mellower parts like this ...

“-Help me if you can. It's just that this, this is not the way I'm wired.
So could you please help me understand why you've given in to all these reckless dark desires?”

-and flipping out on him for the totally fucked up mess/shape he's in (the hard parts)...

“-You're lying to yourself again! Suicidal imbecile!
What'll it take to get it through to you precious!?
I'm over this!
Why do you wanna throw it away like this!?
Such a mess!
Why would I want to watch you....

Disconnect and Self Destruct one bullet at a time?

(One bullet meaning every hit of drugs being like a bullet bringing him closer to death. Much like Ozzy’s Suicide Solution -‘wine is fine, but whiskey’s quicker... suicide is slow with liquor.)

“-What's your rush now?....
Everyone will have his day to die!-“

This outsider just doesn’t get why this addict seems to want to die before their time. They don’t get that it’s an addiction. That the addict can’t help killing himself even though he knows that exactly what he’s doing.

Next one’s kinda confusing and I can see why people call it ‘filler’. On the surface it just doesn’t make sense at all.

Called ‘Crimes’ it's just a short, weird bit where the lyrics are just him counting. So what clues do we have to figure it out?

Well if this all fits as one story as it seems to and this title is ‘crimes’ and the only lyrics are counting in a quiet whisper... to me that adds up to this addict counting in his head the crimes he’s committed because of drugs, to get drugs, etc...

Why the repeating 9 and then 10? I’m not sure, but I think it relates to something from 12 step programs where you’re suppose to list off all your crimes from when you were on drugs and repeating 9 and then 10 is sort of like a childish ‘cheat’.

To ‘pretend’ (‘cuz him lying to himself seems to be a reoccurring theme) he’s committed a shorter list of crimes than he actually has. Like a mom telling a kid she’s gonna count to 3 if the kid doesn’t stop misbehaving and the mom goes -‘one.... two....’ (the kid doesn’t look like they’re gonna stop so the mom goes ‘two and a half.....’

Maybe I’m wrong but I think it fits and seems pretty clever. Simple, short, but clever. Just anothe little bit to add dimension to this train wreck of a drug tale.

‘The Nurse Who Loved Me’ I was surprised to find out was a cover song. It’s a weird song I think. I can understand people who don’t like it, don’t get it. I happen to think it’s very good though and fits into this story very well.
It also give the terribly dark story a bit of a comical twist to it.

This addict’s in a rehab hospital and is pretty much out of his mind from the drugs and thinks this nurse who’s giving him his pills every day is actually in love with him.

“-Say hello to the rug's topography, it holds quite a lot of interest with your face down on it.”

I think he’s laying on the carpet/floor and just fairly damn wigged out.

“-Say hello to the shrinking in your head, you can't see it but you know its there so don't neglect it.

Confusing bit but must be about a therapist ‘head shrinker’. The chorus is about his nurse though...

“-I'm taking her home with me -all dressed in white.
She's got everything I need -pharmacy keys.

She's got everything I need -some pills in a little cup.”

He’s still thinking that drugs are the only other thing he needs -in this case being the new drugs he’s on at this hospital replacing the ones he was addicted to.

“-She's falling hard for me. I can see it in her eyes.-“

Losing touch with reality he thinks she’s in love with him, while she simply -“-acts just like a nurse with all the other guys.-“

Funny really. If you’re looking at the album wanting all hard rock songs then this is a failure but that’s not the point of it at all.
And bonus points to those who picked out the pun in that last line I wrote!

This next ‘Pet’ is the best one IMO. It starts out quiet and then BOOM, just rages. Everything about it is stellar. One of my favorite songs of all time.

It’s much like Pink Floyd’s song ‘Mother’ about someone keeping this addict sheltered from everything and totally controlling his life, thoughts, when he eats, sleeps, etc... to the point that he’s a completely controlled sheep.

They reworked this song for their next album eMotive too which were all anti-war protest songs so this one at the least has that anti-war double meaning but I still believe it’s meant to fit in as part of this addict’s story.

In the eMotive version I think as others have said it relates to bush’s war on Iraq built upon blatant lies yet so many just ignore the truth and put ‘support our troops’ stickers on our cars and think we’re being nice and patriotic.
Ignoring the fact that Iraq didn’t attack us on 9/11 and even if saddam had anything to do with it or other terrorist activities (and I wouldn’t be surprised if he did) does justify us having killed probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians who did nothing to us? We hate the terrorist who killed ~3 thousand people on 9/11. What do we say about the killing of hundreds of thousand?

Anyway....

The original 13th Step version I think is at least partly about probably another councelor or therapist putting the addict in rehab on drugs that make him almost mindless and the therapist is totally controlling him and keeping him from his evil drug, but also truth, choice. They want to take everything away from him in their ‘treatment’.

‘the boogyman’, ‘go back to sleep son’, etc... implies a mothering of sorts.

It can mean an all controlling therapist, prez bush, religion, mass media. All of the above controlling the minds of the masses.

A great message Maynard makes (as he does in some Tool songs too) to fight this grip of ignorance at least half of America is under (the red half heh).

The line ‘go back to sleep’ repeats whispered and fades out at the end going into the real short track ‘Lullaby’.

Called ‘filler’ by many here, I think it’s just an interesting fade out for Pet’s ‘mothing’. Shut your mind off, go back to sleep, so a ‘lullaby’ is very fitting. This trippy bass droning one fits great.

The final track ‘Gravity’ sees the addict apparently released from rehab and he’s off of drugs physically at least but mentally but he says he’s-

“Lost again. Broken and weary. Unable to find my way.

Tail in hand. Dizzy and clearly unable to just let this go.

“I fell again. Like a baby. Unable to stand on my own.”

He’s kicked the drugs, but went back to ‘em yet again (why he was just in rehab)
He’s off drugs at this moment right now, but still can’t get the addiction out of his head.

But the point is that he ‘does’ want to kick for good.

He’s -“surrendering to the gravity and the unknown.”

Poetically saying he accepts that he doesn’t know what will happen to him next.
Will he go back to the drugs again? We don’t know. He doesn’t know either.

Almost like a prayer (to himself probably) asking-

“-Catch me, heal me, lift me back up to the sun.
Help me survive the bottom.
Calm these hands before they snare another pill and drive another nail down another needy hole.-“

Poetically saying he wants out of the darkness he was trapped in. Sick within. Broken in.
His hands still shake. He resists taking more pills or shooting up again. The ‘nail’ is a drug needle. The ‘needy hole’ is the recovering addict’s hole in his veins from the needle.

And like a promise to himself saying -

“-I choose to live.”

It ends with a very uplifting and hopeful yet not exactly 'probable' promise to himself to stay clean.

I love this whole album and I think people would love it even more to really understand each song here as a whole.

I also thought it was like the music version of Fight Club. A film I know a lot of people miss the full depth of even if they think it was very kick ass film.
And of course some hated the film and this album (or certain tracks on it) because I think they didn’t understand the point of them.

They’re both just ‘really cool, dark, and trippy on a surface level, but looking deeper there’s a LOT more to it being a very surreal yet realistic look into the depths of humanity caught in mental breakdown whether from schizophrenia (Fight Club) or Heroin addiction (13th Step).

And both have overtones of the masses being mindless sheep. The mindless sheep being the people that in particular think both that film and this album suck.

I’ve read MANY reviews of 13th Step and I’ve never seen one that fully put the album together as a whole before. So maybe I’m wrong but I wanted to let people know what I think it really is. A sum even greater than it’s great parts.

4/5
a bit weaker than mer de noms but still a lot better than emotive

Well said azryan, this is an original and excellent album by a band that should not be seen as a side project or compared to Tool, Nine Inch Nails etc. Anyone curious about APC should get Mer de Noms to start with, 13th step as a follow up, the Amotive dvd next and avoid Emotive.

Just to let you know, in Lullaby, that "woman's voice" you were refering to is actually Maynard's son. I thought that was pretty interesting.

Good album anyways. Probably the best that APC will ever make.

Entire flow of the album is amazing. Love how The Noose, Blue, Vanishing, The Stranger all go together so smoothly (in a wierd way reminds me of Tool's Lateralus album with the way Disposition, Reflection, & Triad (but I'm not gonna go all deep into that like those VERY deep Tool fans (even though I am a Tool fan I don't look for that much meaning in those three songs))) ANYWAYS especially love how Gravity closes the album off. VERY OUTSTANDING MUSIC.

Where did everyone hear that Maynard's son is humming in Lullaby? I could swear that it's Maynard. Also, the woman singing near the end of Lullaby is supposed to be someone called Jarboe (not sure of spelling).

Album Rating: 3.0

I think that the verse in 'The Outsider' about a 'medicated drama queen' could refer to Courtney Love, considering the whole 'Save Frances Beane' fiasco.



Great album! :thumb:

Album Rating: 4.5

This is the first album from a perfect circle that i listened to and so far its the best of all three. Very well written songs and very melodic moments make up this album.

Album Rating: 3.5

this is APC's best

:thumb:

Album Rating: 4.5

A Perfect Circle makes some goddamn beautiful music. It's a shame that eMOTIVE was so disappointing. Oh, well. I heard that they were trying to get out of the record deal, so they deliberately made poor songs. It's like the cinematic version of Blade Runner. The screening audience were stupid Americans who didn't understand the story, so they had Harrison Ford do that godawful narration. Apparently, he was pissed off at having to do it so he made it sound ridiculous on purpose. I'd like to believe this is true of A Perfect Circle. If Tool's next album sucks, I will lose faith in EVERYTHING.