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Really love this album. It's basic but I'm a sucker for simple, personal music like this. Better produced than their debut, and I think the writing is better at points as well. Great bass throughout this album.
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Nice Sandwich, never heard of these blokes but don't mind what I'm hearing
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yea is good shit. from canberra v nice
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the bandying about of cis is like a tokenistic nod to Trans Rights (something insanely important and good) without attempting to grapple with the Trans Experience... it is really hard not to read this as virtue signalling from atop Mt. Sancitmony where white women can do no wrong and can automatically empathise with more marginalized groups based on a shared otherness that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
YES. this nails it wines. i would also add that they love using "white men" as a put-down, which is a co-option of racial politics. that's taking the grievances of racial minorities and using them solely to gain discursive power. this band absolutely benefits from whiteness, especially in conjunction with their gender (see all the liberal men who rush to defend a troupe of conventionally attractive white women).
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the main gripe in the opener is that they are disadvantaged as women in the music industry. while I do absolutely believe they've faced microaggressions (can women make great rock music? play their instruments? of course they can), they've also been advantaged by the journalistic angle it offers them. this interview circuit they've done nothing but push the whole "fearless women rampaging through the sexist music scene," while acting like the narrative was forced on them.
i'd say the net effect is that their gender and the media narrative surrounding it has been the main reason for their success. if you think that statement is patronizing, I'd say it's only as patronizing as everything the band has tweeted this album cycle. there's nothing special or distinctive about their art. the music is a discount bin waxahatchee with a singer who apes francis quinlan. even the fans acknowledge their music is samey and simplistic. without the manufactured narrative and political posturing no one would give them any attention
| | | Album Rating: 1.0 | Sound Off
'while I do absolutely believe they've faced microaggressions (can women make great rock music? play their instruments? of course they can)'
Is this an Australian thing because certainly female-fronted (you could almost say this is the most in-vogue type of indie or rock band right now, seriously) and 'all-girl' bands are something everyone is totally used to - Haim have the 'three sisters' as their distinguishing quirk, three women in a band in itself is totally unsurprising.
I guess there are still backwards thinkers in the local scenes possibly, but closer to the mainstream I'm pretty sure there are people actively looking for female bands.
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they've also been advantaged by the journalistic angle it offers them.
yes, but i dont think the conclusion should be that this "cancels out" the existing disadvantages against them. imo the idea is to focus on the fact that the disadvantages against them resulting from their gender should not exist, for them or for other female musicians who dont get the same media coverage as camp cope. if being advantaged by journalism helps to give them success, thats positive because it flies in the face of prejudice-based disadvantages by defying their effect (the word negating could have been used here instead of defying, but defiance is precisely what the idea is here). of course if you dont believe that women in general are disadvantaged in the music industry, then everything i've just said is meaningless.
this interview circuit they've done nothing but push the whole "fearless women rampaging through the sexist music scene," while acting like the narrative was forced on them.
have they been acting like the narrative was forced on them? i dont believe that they think that because they have to know that a lot of their rhetoric before they became a relatively widely known band was v feminist and political.
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i'd say the net effect is that their gender and the media narrative surrounding it has been the main reason for their success. if you think that statement is patronizing
i dont think its patronizing, just maybe empirically untrue. this band gets a lot of media attention and a lot of it is at least somewhat preoccupied with the feminist narrative, but you cant seriously believe that people would take to camp cope like they have if they didnt think the music was good or distinctive. i know that you and doof think that, and thats fine, but coming from a person who actually lives in melbourne, goes to shows, follows the local music journalism, and has observed/engaged with discussions regarding camp cope in person and online, i can pretty confidently attest to there being generally good reception of camp cope's music here (at the very least, good reception of their first album; not like they're the greatest band of all time, but definitely enuf for people to be enthusiastic about the band). schoonda and blushful would probably tell you the same. and i think that positive reception coupled with the media attention has been enuf to yield them a solid amount of popularity.
again, i know that you and doof really, really dont believe this band's music is good or distinctive, and you might not think that very many people feel differently. but part of the narrative of their relative success in the industry has undoubtedly been that a lot of people think they are a genuinely good band. i mean, even on this site, the average for the debut album is a 3.7. and its not as if their success has rested on the quality of this new album (which just came out a few days ago); it was largely built up from that first album. really, to sum it up, i know for a fact that a lot of people like camp cope, and tbh i dont think that most of those people will be v disappointed with this new album. y'all might not like the band and their music, but that doesnt alter the narrative of their rise to popularity.
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the music is a discount bin waxahatchee with a singer who apes francis quinlan. even the fans acknowledge their music is samey and simplistic.
- i dont think this band sounds anything like waxahatchee. waxahatchee doesnt have the same punk energy, altho crutchfield's songwriting is obviously influenced by punk (because she played in punk bands for years and years).
- i said this before in the other thread, but frances quinlan doesnt have a patent on female indie rock vocalists singing in an emotional, strained manner. and georgia's vocal lines generally arent as busy, dynamic, and fucking painfully strained (in a good way) as quinlan's.
- imo theres definitely some distinctiveness to this band's sound. their basic instrumental configuration (very raw, barebones guitar and drum arrangements with bass playing lead melodic lines right thru them) is already fairly uncommon (really, mostly cuz of the bass, but when you have a three piece band as simplistic as this, one member's unorthodox approach goes a long way).
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I stand by what I said in the other thread before it got scorch-earthed but ngl Lucid is 180ing me a bit.
anyhoodles keep things civil itt bois because this is the stuff bans are made of šµš»āāļø
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180ing me a bit.
wut does this mean
anyhoodles keep things civil itt bois because this is the stuff bans are made of
i mean ideally i'd love to have an in depth discussion about camp cope here but sowing did say "it's best to just refrain from political debates in music threads" (presumably because they prompt the "offensive and unacceptable statements" which are -again- presumably the reason he wiped the other thread). perhaps we should open a thread in the forums but i unno if most are actually enjoying this debate like i am or if they're just exasperated from responding to me.
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I'm glad you brought up the issue surrounding political debates (will respond to your earlier points later). I don't see how it's possible to avoid political discussion when it's a key selling point for this band (as is clear by their choice of first single). When there aren't any guidelines on how to approach politics in the discussion threads, seems like whether our comments are deleted or not is at the whim of the moderator. I'm enjoying this debate as well (your remarks are always thoughtful and nuanced - more than I can say for this band!)
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your remarks are always thoughtful and nuanced
why thank you! same to you, of course
to turn 180 degrees is to turn around
i mean what does it mean in the context, like "lucid is turning johnny around a bit" what does that mean
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"When there aren't any guidelines on how to approach politics in the discussion threads, seems like whether our comments are deleted or not is at the whim of the moderator."
nah this commentary seems fine afaik just avoid making rape jokes like someone did in an untimely manner
@dim
to say "180 a bit" means i'm acknowledging his angle more than previously. he's making good points. if anything, i'd add more nuance to my previous remarks as far as clarifying that these girls aren't philosophers, and, as evident by this thread, you're being more thoughtful than they could be bothered to. i still think the vitriol is in bad taste and their motivations prematurely - and incorrectly - assessed, but that's also in line with them not being especially detailed in how they present it. all the while, taking jabs at people who 'don't get it'. the best way to protest is to target the people you want to listen, and make sure they get the picture. you don't get to benefit from being socially conscious yet avoid your ideas being under scrutiny. wines' earlier remarks ring true as well, i think.
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I'll never understand why people think rape jokes are funny.
| | | Album Rating: 1.0 | Sound Off
'i still think the vitriol is in bad taste'
I think that this hardly rates as 'vitriol' - it's just people calling out what they consider to be a shit album with an attached awful message.
'Vitriol' is a bit strong, I don't think anyone here is saying the band should split up or apologize for talking nonsense, or that they'll in any way take action against them, etc.
More '1 rating for music and lyrics, this band are in danger of damaging the feminist discourse slightly by being very clumsy, dumb and reactionary in how they put things'. I kind of embrace the 'spirit of punk' angle, that you're meant to say controversial things, but by definition they have to expect people to react with a degree of incredulity if you're saying such stuff.
That's not a vitriolic reaction imo, just 'saying what you see' - you can only work with what you're given.
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Iām not necessarily referring to you or lucid fyi
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i still think the vitriol is in bad taste and their motivations prematurely - and incorrectly - assessed, but that's also in line with them not being especially detailed in how they present it. all the while, taking jabs at people who 'don't get it'.
agreed but presently, as in previous arguments, i want to emphasise the former part over the latter. still, i understand the backlash; i might not think that backlash is 100% justified (emphasis on the just), but i can certainly see why it has occurred. to put it another way, i think doof is right to say "they have to expect people to react with a degree of incredulity if you're saying such stuff", but i might not agree with the contents of many of the rebuttals that make up that backlash.
the best way to protest is to target the people you want to listen, and make sure they get the picture. you don't get to benefit from being socially conscious yet avoid your ideas being under scrutiny.
true, but i also think one of the aims of protest that camp cope's behaviour exemplifies is empowerment of the supposed victims of the problem. they've been successful in communicating that to me through their actions (i.e. i sympathise with their employment of headstrong attitudes as a means of empowerment).
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entertaining thread huh
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you shoulda seen the other one
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